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also the direct competitor is Crusader, not just Cleric if they make very tight (timewise) encounters, Fervor might be important though, but you'd have to spec into an unknown for that so eh
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Feb 21, 2021 22:10
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Goa Tse-tung posted:also the direct competitor is Crusader, not just Cleric There was at least one fight in the alpha that absolutely wrecked my poo poo because you had at most one round to get off buffs before combat started, and my party couldn't handle the enemy without it's usual 5 layers of buffs.
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Feb 21, 2021 22:18
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Torrannor posted:There was at least one fight in the alpha that absolutely wrecked my poo poo because you had at most one round to get off buffs before combat started, and my party couldn't handle the enemy without it's usual 5 layers of buffs. If it's a certain dragon hunt, it is a bit easier now.
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Feb 21, 2021 22:37
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JamMasterJim posted:If it's a certain dragon hunt, it is a bit easier now. It was. That's good to hear, because I stopped playing the alpha entirely after like two dozens attempts to take it down.
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Feb 21, 2021 22:40
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Lord Koth posted:You, uh, seem to be missing the blessings, fervor, x/day armor/weapon enhancements you can toss on, bonus feats and a few other things. And 6th level cleric spells gets you the vast majority of the cleric combat buffing spells, so you're not exactly giving up much in losing 7th/8th/9th level spells in terms of buffs. Add in hitting for 2d8 damage at 20th level with a fricking dagger or any other weapon you want. Some of the archtypes are really neat as well. I'm playing an Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest archer in my weekly pen'n'paper campaign, pity that one didn't make the cut. Cult Leader did, adding in a bunch of sneak attack dice. Also Feral Champion which lets you do an amazing Monk/Warpriest combo assuming Crusader's Flurry is in as well.
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Feb 21, 2021 22:43
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Torrannor posted:It was. That's good to hear, because I stopped playing the alpha entirely after like two dozens attempts to take it down. if it makes you feel better I almost quit playing the beta because I couldnt kill the water elemental in shield maze
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Feb 21, 2021 22:47
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frajaq posted:if it makes you feel better I almost quit playing the beta because I couldnt kill the water elemental in shield maze In fairness there's a reason the water elemental is a completely optional encounter, as a large elemental is absolutely brutal against 2nd level characters. As opposed to the dragon encounter, which is not quite mandatory but is rather advised for a number of reasons.
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Feb 21, 2021 22:50
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frajaq posted:if it makes you feel better I almost quit playing the beta because I couldnt kill the water elemental in shield maze That fight is a nightmare and I gave up almost immediately. Apparently killing it requires some amount of lateral thinking. Someone pointed out that you can find a resist frost potion and some other useful loot drops scattered around the dungeon that make it doable (and you can buy a few potions and scrolls from the mongrel merchant). I never actually use potions and scrolls so I'd never have thought of doing this. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 22:56
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Nephthys posted:That fight is a nightmare and I gave up almost immediately. Apparently killing it requires some amount of lateral thinking. Someone pointed out that you can find a resist frost potion and some other useful loot drops scattered around the dungeon that make it doable (and you can buy a few potions and scrolls from the mongrel merchant). I never actually use potions and scrolls so I'd never have thought of doing this. Unless you are playing on hard, it's stats are not that high that A sheelah fighting defensively and healing herself won't hold out long enough for the rest of the party to kill, even without any consumables. Hoshilla fight where you have to reload a cutscene was more annoying on harder difficulties
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Feb 21, 2021 23:08
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any buff with a duration in rounds instead of minutes is too much effort to cast outside of battle imo
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Feb 21, 2021 23:29
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Nephthys posted:I never actually use potions and scrolls so I'd never have thought of doing this. That's just bonkers to me. The first game's at its most fun when you've burned through your daily spellslots and resources and have to scrounge around in the inventory to see what random junk will get you through another trash fight or two.
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Feb 21, 2021 23:39
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Nephthys posted:I never actually use potions and scrolls so I'd never have thought of doing this. from some future fights that people complain about it seems this is one behavior that will be a good idea to get rid of 
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Feb 21, 2021 23:59
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To be entirely fair, there are a bunch of scrolls and potions that are practically worthless - like, what the hell am I going to do with a potion of vanish or shield of faith? Or practically any attack spell on a scroll, aside from no save ones. Wow, a whole one round of invisibility, or a whole +1 deflection bonus. On the other hand, buffs like enlarge/reduce person in potion form work perfectly fine, and stocking up on scrolls of spells like communal delay poison, death ward, and freedom of movement are excellent ideas. Additionally, WotR mitigates the issue for scrolls in general, since the wizard companion is a scroll savant and thus uses their own CL and DCs for them (and it's obviously an available archetype for you too). I'm also wondering if the crafting system will let you set the CL for crafted scrolls, which would keep certain low level scrolls valuable even for other classes.
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Feb 22, 2021 00:09
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sassassin posted:That's just bonkers to me. I'm also pretty conservative with spells, lol. Using spells and resources on trash fights just seems wasteful to me, especially considering most potion buffs barely lasted a few rounds and scrolls had terrible DC's. I'm going to make a concerted effort to make better use of stuff in WotR though because you can craft them to be higher levels and Nenio as a Scroll Savant seems crazy strong, she can almost double as a full divine caster if I'm understanding it right. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Feb 22, 2021 |
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Feb 22, 2021 00:09
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In Kingmaker I usually just make my party chug every potion we've picked up in a dungeon once I run out of carrying capacity. edit: except the huge stack of all three healing potions, which is for valerie to barely dent in her 1v1
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Feb 22, 2021 00:13
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Lord Koth posted:To be entirely fair, there are a bunch of scrolls and potions that are practically worthless - like, what the hell am I going to do with a potion of vanish or shield of faith? Or practically any attack spell on a scroll, aside from no save ones. Wow, a whole one round of invisibility, or a whole +1 deflection bonus. On the other hand, buffs like enlarge/reduce person in potion form work perfectly fine, and stocking up on scrolls of spells like communal delay poison, death ward, and freedom of movement are excellent ideas. Finding Summon Monster 1 and Shield of Faith CL 1 scrolls in the abyss is hilarious
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Feb 22, 2021 00:24
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Lord Koth posted:To be entirely fair, there are a bunch of scrolls and potions that are practically worthless - like, what the hell am I going to do with a potion of vanish or shield of faith? Or practically any attack spell on a scroll, aside from no save ones. Wow, a whole one round of invisibility, or a whole +1 deflection bonus. On the other hand, buffs like enlarge/reduce person in potion form work perfectly fine, and stocking up on scrolls of spells like communal delay poison, death ward, and freedom of movement are excellent ideas. I've been using potions of vanish fairly regularly since turn-based was added. Octavia or Linzi get rushed -> chug potion and retreat, no attack of opportunity. Can also be used to create sneak attacks for rogues caught without a flanking buddy. Shield of faith potions are +2 deflection for one minute and it's quite a while before you get +2 rings, so as something to do while you wait for enemies to get out of a grease puddle, down the hatch.
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Feb 22, 2021 00:36
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sassassin posted:I've been using potions of vanish fairly regularly since turn-based was added. Octavia or Linzi get rushed -> chug potion and retreat, no attack of opportunity. Can also be used to create sneak attacks for rogues caught without a flanking buddy. Shield of faith potions are +2 deflection for one minute and it's quite a while before you get +2 rings, so as something to do while you wait for enemies to get out of a grease puddle, down the hatch. Probably should have been specific that I meant in the mid/long run. Like, a Fireball scroll could be useful around 5th-6th level, but it's going to fall off hard past that between not scaling any higher and having minimum DC. Shield of Faith being an initial +2 is something I generally forget and admittedly a minor AC boost until you can find the appropriate rings. That second use of Vanish sounds like it might be a quirk of how the game's programmed. Because a CL1 Vanish potion should last for one round, and thus should wear off at the beginning of your next round. Given it takes a standard action to drink, if you're getting any attacks other than AoOs while still under its effects then it's lasting longer than it should. The first use is a good idea, though not an issue I generally particularly care about.
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Feb 22, 2021 01:05
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So someone on reddit has posted at least most of the Mythic spells for each released Path. Spoilers obviously: https://imgur.com/a/Q87t2Te Some thoughts: The Aeon spells seem interesting, some have negative effects to allies as well as enemies which is thematic. Almost none of them even allow for a save as far as I can tell. Relativity is fantastic. Lol, Angels actually gets a lvl 9 spell called Wrath of the Righteous. Designated protagonist right there. Aegis of the Faithful sure is a stacked buff spell. Their list seems very strong in general. I like the Azata spells. Covering yourself in adamantine flowers and dropping a waterfall on someone are cool visuals. Also lol, one of them is just giving an ally a hug. The ones that restores spell slots are possibly busted. Lich seems to have a lot of blaster spells. Demon still seems noticeably weaker than the other Mythics to me. Their spells are merely decent. Phantasmal Healer and Ray of Halberds from Trickster make me chuckle every time. Trick Fate seems crazy strong. A lot of goof spells.
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Feb 22, 2021 01:06
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Nephthys posted:So someone on reddit has posted at least most of the Mythic spells for each released Path. Spoilers obviously: There are also Level 10 spells for Angel and Lich. Ignore the level 6 description. https://imgur.com/MRHlig7 https://imgur.com/a/wNGKSOu
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Feb 22, 2021 01:11
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Nephthys posted:Phantasmal Healer and Ray of Halberds from Trickster make me chuckle every time. Trick Fate seems crazy strong. A lot of goof spells.[/spoiler] I want to see the stats on the Greasly Bear, Beer Elementals, and the Annoyed Wizard.
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Feb 22, 2021 01:28
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Sylphosaurus posted:gently caress playing characters that has to renew every drat buff for every fight. I still get twitches thinking about when I played Eldritch Knight in NWN 2. I've still got a copy of Warlock Buddy stashed away somewhere.
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Feb 22, 2021 02:03
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Kalas posted:Add in hitting for 2d8 damage at 20th level with a fricking dagger or any other weapon you want. Friend of mine built a gimmick warpriest in PnP who fought dual-wielding dwarven war-shields to abuse the bashing finish feat. It probably wasn't real powergamer stuff, but he still got a degenerate amount of free attacks out of it, which was very funny.
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Feb 22, 2021 05:07
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Kobal2 posted:Friend of mine built a gimmick warpriest in PnP who fought dual-wielding dwarven war-shields to abuse the bashing finish feat. It probably wasn't real powergamer stuff, but he still got a degenerate amount of free attacks out of it, which was very funny. Every time he crit you could probably see a vein in the GM's forehead throb. In Pathfinder Kingmaker with the Call of the Wild mod I was messing around with Sacred Fist, Crusader's Flurry and Glaives. It worked out pretty well. Pity Sacred Fist loses the standard Sacred Weapon scaling, but you can't complain about 5 attacks a round with a reach 2h.
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Feb 22, 2021 05:54
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Kobal2 posted:Friend of mine built a gimmick warpriest in PnP who fought dual-wielding dwarven war-shields to abuse the bashing finish feat. It probably wasn't real powergamer stuff, but he still got a degenerate amount of free attacks out of it, which was very funny. This is a fun line of thought but has the basic problem that the bull rush from Shield Slam isn't optional, so every hit you make is also a bull rush attempt and in short order your full attack sequence will get interrupted because you've just pushed the enemy out of your reach.
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Feb 22, 2021 05:56
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Roadie posted:This is a fun line of thought but has the basic problem that the bull rush from Shield Slam isn't optional, so every hit you make is also a bull rush attempt and in short order your full attack sequence will get interrupted because you've just pushed the enemy out of your reach. As long as you make sure all your fights happen on windswept cliffs overlooking jagged rocks this works out fine.
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Feb 22, 2021 08:11
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Lord Koth posted:Probably should have been specific that I meant in the mid/long run. Like, a Fireball scroll could be useful around 5th-6th level, but it's going to fall off hard past that between not scaling any higher and having minimum DC. Shield of Faith being an initial +2 is something I generally forget and admittedly a minor AC boost until you can find the appropriate rings. Drinking potions is a move action in Kingmaker.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:02
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Nephthys posted:character review/spoilers drat, too many interesting character it's going to be hard to choose... whether to use any of them whatsoever or just go around raising enemies as minions as Lichqueen. Agnostalgia posted:Some of these classes they added for Wrath make no sense to me. Like can someone explain why you would ever make a Warpriest? It's supposed to be a fighter/cleric hybrid class, but it has the same attack bonus and HP as a Cleric does! It seems like all you get in return for losing domains and a third of your spell list is, like, martial weapons proficiency? Well for one thing, everyone's been or had a cleric around for a thousand years. If nothing else, Warpriest's name alone is a nice change of pace from the one class there's probably never been a cRPG without. Second I think that class gets other little fighter features and feats to make you a better magic-sword person. Cleric is still better but hey some people really want to smash face with the power of god and anime on their side. I do agree there are ton of classes that seem to have only granular changes, or there's some quirky little thing not readily apparent that makes it actually drastically better/worse in some way. There's a Witch subclass that gives you crazy claws and like fighting-hair but nothing else you'd need to be effective with using them in combat. Barbarians seems to have a sublass to let them be a Barbarian version of any other class, which is just fun to have around I think. Same for some of these classes that are Bard-but-cooler. The more the merrier, even if they aren't all mechanically equal. Just wish we had 100 party limit size so we can really explore the full range in a play through.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:34
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Khanstant posted:
I've been following this thread to get wrath updates since I thought the alpha/beta was too expensive and I'd rather play the final product. The number of classes available is the only thing that concerns me. How am I supposed to differentiate and pick between classes when there are one hundred bajillion, particularly when that one poster has been posting reviews and it's clear that a couple of them are duds. Particularly if I'm not an experienced pathfinder player beyond a couple playthroughs of kingmaker. Can someone release a S+/S/A/B/C guide for classes based on power, fun and usefulness?
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Feb 22, 2021 20:00
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Kalas posted:Every time he crit you could probably see a vein in the GM's forehead throb. Oh no, it was more of a peaceful resignation, as the death row convict waits for an end they have no control whatsoever upon - after much argument we'd (almost) unanimously resolved during the second or third session that, RAW, nothing prevented crits from said free attacks to trigger moar free attacks. Where can you go, after that, besides taking refuge in quietly twitching insanity ? Roadie posted:This is a fun line of thought but has the basic problem that the bull rush from Shield Slam isn't optional, so every hit you make is also a bull rush attempt and in short order your full attack sequence will get interrupted because you've just pushed the enemy out of your reach. See, that would have been an interesting rule to have known at the time. Then again, can't you deliberately fail any action ? Taking the 1, as it were ?
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Feb 22, 2021 20:07
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DisgracelandUSA posted:I've been following this thread to get wrath updates since I thought the alpha/beta was too expensive and I'd rather play the final product. The number of classes available is the only thing that concerns me. How am I supposed to differentiate and pick between classes when there are one hundred bajillion, particularly when that one poster has been posting reviews and it's clear that a couple of them are duds. Particularly if I'm not an experienced pathfinder player beyond a couple playthroughs of kingmaker. The amount of archetypes that I'd advice not just playing pure is like a dozen or less., and that is mostly for harder difficulties. Even though some archetypes feel redundant or their features are not AS good as others in the same class, they are still strong if built properly(plus, the unique flavor of an archetype may be what makes it fun for some, even if not as effective). And if we tried to do a tier list, most of the top tiers would be almost all the full casters and a couple other standouts. So my suggestion would be, unless you are playing in the hardest difficulty, find a couple classes that interest you and ask for build advice. After all, what you consider fun is important as well (some hate micromanaging characters, others are bored to death by martials who smack things)
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Feb 22, 2021 20:14
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Okay, the beta updates are nice, but I'm just over here dying for info on Gold Dragon, like, at all. That you evidently don't get to unlock it by chapter 4 (out of a six-chapter adpath plus whatever Owlcat tacks on) feels a bit worrying.
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Feb 22, 2021 20:40
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Anyone in the thread seen an issue with Tristian's quest in Season of Bloom, I'm going to the cult gathering at night, do the combat, as soon as the conversation after the combat triggers, the game causes my whole PC to reboot. I found some older posts about something similar from a couple years ago, but nothing recent, and no other issues elsewhere in the game. No decent errors or logs I can find in event viewer or anything, no other games having that sort of issue on my PC.
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Feb 22, 2021 20:41
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did they make it clearer as to what archetypes gain or lose from the main class
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Feb 22, 2021 20:48
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Khanstant posted:I do agree there are ton of classes that seem to have only granular changes, or there's some quirky little thing not readily apparent that makes it actually drastically better/worse in some way. There's a bloodrager archetype (primalist) that lets you choose to take barbarian powers instead of the bloodline powers normal bloodragers get every four levels. You get to choose each time, and can always opt to instead get the bloodline power as normal. There's no other difference from the regular class, so the primalist is just flatly superior to the base bloodrager. It kind of feels like they prioritized the number of classes over quality control.
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Feb 22, 2021 20:52
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Kobal2 posted:See, that would have been an interesting rule to have known at the time. As written, no. You can voluntary fail saves, but that's explicitly noted as part of how saves work.
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Feb 22, 2021 20:59
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DisgracelandUSA posted:Can someone release a S+/S/A/B/C guide for classes based on power, fun and usefulness? basically impossible in a vaccuum, think about how many classes use items differently and what monsters pose what difficulty to a class for example, if it is easy to get +5 Holy Axiomatic Kamas (or similar) then a Monk-Gish goes from C to A; add in endgame monsters like last game and all Monks go up one category
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Feb 22, 2021 22:12
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SpaceDrake posted:Okay, the beta updates are nice, but I'm just over here dying for info on Gold Dragon, like, at all. That you evidently don't get to unlock it by chapter 4 (out of a six-chapter adpath plus whatever Owlcat tacks on) feels a bit worrying. Isn't it (and Swarm/Legend/anything else) just not in the game yet? So trying to judge when exactly they'll be available somewhat difficult? Because there definitely seems to be Gold Dragon and Swarm-related stuff in Chapter 3, just without any follow on at the moment.
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Feb 22, 2021 22:30
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Dragon/Legend/Swarm are late-game or unimplemented enough that even I've been staying away from spoilers about them and I think some of the super endgame spoilers turned out to be fake anyway so things I had seen from them may not be true.
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Feb 22, 2021 22:54
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is the Devil path even real
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Feb 22, 2021 23:46
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