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Ingmar terdman posted:Ridley Scott and Kurosawa are the two examples of directors that do cool storyboards. But I tend to assume directors are either really good or complete poo poo at drawing Ridley Scott went to art school
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Feb 24, 2021 15:36
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Horizon Burning posted:just watched revenge of the sith with a friend who had never seen it and there were a few things that stuck out to me There’s really nothing democratic about Palpatine. I get what you’re going for but from the very get go he was installed under very shady circumstances and then used emergency declarations to assume greater power and stayed beyond his term of office.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:50
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Was he at that point doing anything illegal (palpatine) ? I don’t remember clearly It was definitely a coup tho by the Jedi
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Feb 24, 2021 16:55
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Horizon Burning posted:just watched revenge of the sith with a friend who had never seen it and there were a few things that stuck out to me Pretty sure the answer is meant to be 'next to nothing'. The Sith have been a long-forgotten memory for centuries at least, and were always all about secrecy and obscuration. Yoda seems to know the Rule of Two basically by guesswork. And at that point, they've encountered exactly two confirmed Sith- Maul and Dooku- who have wildly different abilities and fighting styles. quote:- the confrontation between obi-wan and anakin is incredible in general. how obi-wan clearly doesn't want to fight anakin yet also thinks he's being utterly unconscionable which leads to everything that happens. obi-wan must be spending so much of that fight hoping that anakin trips and falls into the lava and spares him the trouble. The answer I usually give to these things is 'a little both', probably. The whole point of that fight is that despite winning, it leaves Obi-Wan a broken man, who spends the next 20 years alone in the desert. (depressed enough that he ages 40 years) quote:- the tragedy of the jedi is cool, too. it's the right thing to depose the guy who orchestrated this huge war - but they don't have any proof. it's a coup against a democratically-elected, beloved figure. Yeah, the whole point is that basically by the end of Episode I, Sheev had already won. Every reasonable outcome from there was in his favour. All the impressions I got back then is that Revenge is the best of the prequels. Which may not be saying much, but it sticks the landing probably better than anyone expected.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:58
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Aotc and rots are both really well made. I get why people don’t enjoy them tho. Especially aotc, it asked a lot of the viewer
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Feb 24, 2021 16:59
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Jewmanji posted:There’s really nothing democratic about Palpatine. I get what you’re going for but from the very get go he was installed under very shady circumstances and then used emergency declarations to assume greater power and stayed beyond his term of office.
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Feb 24, 2021 17:13
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Jewmanji posted:There’s really nothing democratic about Palpatine. I get what you’re going for but from the very get go he was installed under very shady circumstances and then used emergency declarations to assume greater power and stayed beyond his term of office. He did get thunderous applause for all that, and he's probably in the clear from a strictly legal point of view as well. I'm sure there's senators during New Hope going "another tough decision from Palpatine there. I wish these dang rebels didn't have to force his hand like this, but I sure am glad he's not buckling to the anarchists!"
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Feb 24, 2021 17:17
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Anti-democratic doesn't necessarily mean illegal. The Republic is flawed in that way, there are lawful mechanisms in place to give the Chancellor unlimited power with no term limit, which shouldn't be an option if you want to protect democracy. That's what made Palpatine's plan so effective, he used his dual identities to play both sides and in the end he knew he simply needed to stoke enough fear that the Senate would take a route that was already established in the law. It wasn't until he wanted to actually start blowing up entire planets that he took the final step of dissolving the Senate because up to that point the Senate was actually useful.
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Feb 24, 2021 17:34
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Horizon Burning posted:just watched revenge of the sith with a friend who had never seen it and there were a few things that stuck out to me Watching Revenge of the Sith after watching Clone Wars made the entire movie hit different but without that supplemental EU, Anakin's fall is handled extremely poorly in the movies.
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Feb 24, 2021 18:44
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jisforjosh posted:Watching Revenge of the Sith after watching Clone Wars made the entire movie hit different but without that supplemental EU, Anakin's fall is handled extremely poorly in the movies. Anakin’s fall occurs at the end of Phantom Menace. The mistake comes from misunderstanding what Anakin is falling from. Popular headcanon would have it that Anakin falls from the purity and goodness of the Jedi faith, which is basically Obiwan’s perspective: Anakin was the chosen one, but ceased to be when he rejected liberal democracy. In actuality, Anakin falls from the emancipatory politics of his youth when he is indoctrinated into the Jedi Order.
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Feb 24, 2021 18:59
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The republic wasn’t democratic even before Shiv took total power .
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Feb 24, 2021 19:25
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What "democracy" we're shown mostly looks like loose federalism. Are these Senators even elected?
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Feb 24, 2021 19:29
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I mean in my opinion one has to be careful with the word democracy . Sometimes it can mean electoral republics that serve the interests of the few (for example you could call the USA a democracy but that’s largely a joke if the word means anything substantial) . Or or can mean a government dedicated to the people regardless of its form . In this sense the USA (for example) has never been a democracy I think this dichotomy is in play in the prequels quite evidently I’m not picking on the USA just using it as an example because I live in it
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Feb 24, 2021 19:33
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YaketySass posted:What "democracy" we're shown mostly looks like loose federalism. Are these Senators even elected? They mention in AotC that Padme was elected Queen and I guess that also applies to becoming a senator as well. Now that I think about it, they also talk about how Padme was so popular that people wanted to change the law so she could be elected even though she served the max. amount of terms or was too old or whatever. A nice precedent for what Sheev would later pull off.
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Feb 24, 2021 19:42
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Grendels Dad posted:Now that I think about it, they also talk about how Padme was so popular that people wanted to change the law so she could be elected even though she served the max. amount of terms or was too old or whatever. A nice precedent for what Sheev would later pull off. It turns out the secret to being popular is winning a war.
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Feb 24, 2021 19:45
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She was elected the head of the human colony. I doubt any gungans voted for her at least at first. . It appears that the events of the first movie smoothed over whatever civil war they were having I might be misremembering I am sorry.
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Feb 24, 2021 19:48
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"I am your queen." "Weesa didn't vote for nothing."
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Feb 24, 2021 19:58
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jisforjosh posted:Watching Revenge of the Sith after watching Clone Wars made the entire movie hit different but without that supplemental EU, Anakin's fall is handled extremely poorly in the movies. How so? I just rewatched and felt it was handled really persuasively.
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Feb 24, 2021 20:13
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We need to have a serious talk about the district gerrymandering that’s suppressing the Gungan voters.
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Feb 24, 2021 20:15
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It's implied that each Senator is elected by their homeworld's constituents in a manner similar to the US Senate. The process of electing a Senator is never elaborated on, but because each world is shown to be relatively autonomous under the very loose confederation that is the Galactic Republic, we can assume it's different and possibly unfair on each of them. Importantly, no mention is made of anything like political parties, only ad-hoc factions within the Senate itself, and none of the Senators we're introduced to in the films show any signs of having domestic opponents or disaffected constituents; so it seems that regional disputes, rather than ideological galactic agendas, are the body's main concern. Just as planets in Star Wars are dominated by a single biome or two if you're lucky, they're also dominated by a single political stance or two if you're lucky, which their Senators faithfully represent (consider that Naboo by the time of Attack of the Clones has one human and one Gungan representative). The voices of the galactic underclass are not heard in the Senate, but the reason why is because they literally don't have a Senator at all, as opposed to the real-world model where they have a Senator who was elected by as little as 26% of the population and finds it intolerable to even consider doing what their constituents want. There is no Senator from Tatooine.
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Feb 24, 2021 20:27
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There is also a Senator, or at least a Representative who can motion for things, from the Trade Federation.
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Feb 24, 2021 20:31
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Bongo Bill posted:It's implied that each Senator is elected by their homeworld's constituents in a manner similar to the US Senate. The process of electing a Senator is never elaborated on, but because each world is shown to be relatively autonomous under the very loose confederation that is the Galactic Republic, we can assume it's different and possibly unfair on each of them. Importantly, no mention is made of anything like political parties, only ad-hoc factions within the Senate itself, and none of the Senators we're introduced to in the films show any signs of having domestic opponents or disaffected constituents; so it seems that regional disputes, rather than ideological galactic agendas, are the body's main concern. Is Tatooine actually a part of the Republic? I'm not sure they even have a planet-wide government.
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Feb 24, 2021 21:59
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Anakin's fall only seems weird if you actually think the Jedi are good, reasonable people instead of sanctimonious enforcers of galactic liberal order.
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Feb 24, 2021 22:01
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Is Tatooine actually a part of the Republic? I'm not sure they even have a planet-wide government. Tatooine is technically part of the republic, but effectively excluded in every way that matters because they’re poor. Everyone’s surprised when their credit cards don’t work, and Shmii basically says the rule of law doesn’t exist out there.
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Feb 24, 2021 22:32
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Yeah. I saw it as basically the same as Hitler's Enabling Law. Lucas borrows heavily from the fall of the Weimar Republic, although the films are solidly about America. In short the sequence is: TPM: At the start of the film Palpatine has secured a sizable base of support in the Senate via Sith powers and just being a good politician (both are suggested, it's unclear how much the former is a real thing). He doesn't have enough support to just replace Valoran outright, so he manufactures the Naboo crisis with the Trade Federation who are greedy and stupid. The crisis tips the balance in the Senate and creates the impetus for a vote of no confidence, getting him the Chancellorship. AOTC: Palpatine's term in office is about to come to an end. Luckily another crisis has emerged for the Republic and he's needed to stay on. It's important to note that Palpatine is pretty passive in this film and lets the Jedi gently caress everything up themselves. Jango Fett is given instructions to lead the Jedi to Kamino so they find out about the clone army and then Obi Wan is dumb and gets caught spying, so Yoda grabs the army and uses it to start a war. Palpatine takes no active steps at all during this sequence, but he now gets a vast expansion of power and term extension. RotS: Palpatine is firmly in control of the Senate, who are basically convinced that without him they're all going to get killed by the Terminator. Then, during a war, the Jedi try to murder him and seize political control (Samuel Jackson overtly says he's going to lock up the Senate until they can be trusted). Palpatine triggers this assassination attempt by deliberately revealing himself to Anakin.
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Feb 24, 2021 23:24
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Alchenar posted:Nah AT-AT's are great and the root of their design is based in the idea that tanks hug the ground for protection, and they wanted to get across that the Empire's military is so overwhelmingly powerful in a straight-up fight that it doesn't need to bother with any of that, they just have these huge towering walkers that can look out to the horizon and don't give a gently caress about the fact that you can see them and can shoot back. You are right. I was referring to why Lucas said he went with that design (it's in Empire of Dreams) but there's also, as you say, very clear characterisation in that design. They are an arrogant power showing their dominance. This is par for the course for fascism. The Tiger tank was designed as much to be intimidating and attractive as for practical reasons. And, indeed, it's consistent with the fundamental idea behind the death star: slow, overpowering, but with a weak spot. euphronius posted:Was he at that point doing anything illegal (palpatine) ? I don’t remember clearly According to the visual dictionary released at the time, a series of crises have necessitated him to remain in power beyond the usual term limits of a chancellor. Each time, reluctanctly, he's accepted the extension. So not technically illegal. But also, yeah, definitely illegal. I think we're more talking about why it was accepted by the republic at large.
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Feb 24, 2021 23:32
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Snowman_McK posted:You are right. I was referring to why Lucas said he went with that design (it's in Empire of Dreams) but there's also, as you say, very clear characterisation in that design. They are an arrogant power showing their dominance. This is par for the course for fascism. The Tiger tank was designed as much to be intimidating and attractive as for practical reasons. The AT-AT is a good example of Star Wars being a transformative remix of its influences. New Star Wars is just "Star Wars Again", but the older movies take something like a walking truck designed by Syd Mead for General Electric and reimagine it as an ideological statement: 
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Feb 24, 2021 23:48
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Robot Style posted:The AT-AT is a good example of Star Wars being a transformative remix of its influences. New Star Wars is just "Star Wars Again", but the older movies take something like a walking truck designed by Syd Mead for General Electric and reimagine it as an ideological statement: It's actually interesting that, while the First Order are usually just empire/sith fanboys mindlessly copying the empire without understanding why, their version of the AT-AT, while being bigger, is actually a bit more practical, with more guns, armour in sensible places and guns with a wider arc of fire
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Feb 24, 2021 23:54
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They also have razorblades on their legs, specifically to cut wires trying to trip them.
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Feb 24, 2021 23:56
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A couple of original AT-ATs being in the scene alongside the ridiculous First Order Ones because that's the only way you would be able to tell they were 'bigger and better' is a full blown unintentional metaphor for how the Sequel Films have nothing to offer but to mimic the OT.
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Feb 24, 2021 23:59
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Robot Style posted:They also have razorblades on their legs, specifically to cut wires trying to trip them. I didn't notice that, but that is very interesting. I kind of like the idea of the First Order being equal parts dogmatic zealots and tactical realism nerds.
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Feb 25, 2021 00:00
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This thought occurred to me today - what if JJ Abrams, who we all know filmed like 8 hours of nonsense to make The Rise of Skywalker, is seeing all the news about The Snyder Cut hoping that he'll make The JJ Cut? It actually wouldn't surprise me if the real movie he wanted to make is somehow hidden on the cutting room floor. Of course that movie probably also sucks.
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Feb 25, 2021 00:51
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I get the vibe JJ is pretty done with star wars. He often complained about how rushed and miserable the production of TFA was, only to be brought back and have the same thing happen but much worse. Granted I'm sure the dump truck full of money helps but he can get that elsewhere without having to finish editing the movie the day before the premiere
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Feb 25, 2021 01:01
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Glottis posted:This thought occurred to me today - what if JJ Abrams, who we all know filmed like 8 hours of nonsense to make The Rise of Skywalker, is seeing all the news about The Snyder Cut hoping that he'll make The JJ Cut? It actually wouldn't surprise me if the real movie he wanted to make is somehow hidden on the cutting room floor. Doubtful - what he shot is what's in the movie. There were some other ideas he and Terrio had that didn't make it in, but they were all replaced rather than removed outright, and never made it to filming. The movie did have a relatively short time in the editing room, but the only major things that might not have made it in are some extra scenes with Leia (which are apparently where the bulk of Rose's scenes were), and potentially an earlier version of the final confrontation that had Matt Smith instead of Ian McDiarmid.
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Feb 25, 2021 01:13
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CD's beloved boy chris terrio does come across as the one with regrets about the whole thing. I'd be interested in hearing more from him about the whole debacle, something along the lines of the embarrassing but interesting post mortem jon kasdan did for solo. But then he's not somebody's son so he probably has to keep his mouth shut more
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Feb 25, 2021 01:14
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Shanty posted:He did get thunderous applause for all that, and he's probably in the clear from a strictly legal point of view as well. I'm sure there's senators during New Hope going "another tough decision from Palpatine there. I wish these dang rebels didn't have to force his hand like this, but I sure am glad he's not buckling to the anarchists!" I wouldn't be surprised if Sheev Was Right types made up a significant percentage of First Order worlds.
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Feb 25, 2021 03:03
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The Bee posted:I wouldn't be surprised if Sheev Was Right types made up a significant percentage of First Order worlds. They call them AT-ATies.
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Feb 25, 2021 03:13
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Tatooine is technically part of the republic, but effectively excluded in every way that matters because they’re poor. I'm not so sure. A lot of stuff from ANH (from deleted scenes to Lucas giving interviews etc.) Implies that the Empire has just annexed Tatooine within Luke's lifetime. If it was already technically part of the Republic the Empire wouldn't have to go through the effort of annexing it since they'd already own it. Tatooine during the prequels seems to be some kind of independent Singapore like city-state (because in Star Wars planet=city) run by Hutt feudal lords. Jabba at the Pod Race seems to be like some kind of ruling local warlord or similar. The Naboo crew even make a point before they hide out there that Amidala is in danger from the Hutt rulers, which doesn't make sense if they are even nominal non-Trade Federation aligned Republic members.
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Feb 25, 2021 03:22
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Qui-Gon also isn't particularly surprised that Watto won't take his credits
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Feb 25, 2021 03:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The issue is not that it’s choreographed, because of course it is. The issue is that it’s not narratively good. Like, in terms of just telling us a short story about these people. It’s not good theatre. Id be remiss if I didnt say thanks for this good post
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Feb 25, 2021 03:27
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