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Proposed Budget: ~$30k New or Used: New probably based on reading this thread Body Style: Hatchback/Crossover How will you be using the car?: Initially just around town so low mileage but eventually 2-3 work trips per month, 200-800 miles How will you be using the car?: Nothing exceptional, extra cargo room is for dogs/random furniture stuff What aspects are most important to you?: Cost and reliability I've been shopping the crossover/sedan options from Mazda, Toyota and Honda mostly since those seem to be the most recommended here. My debate is mostly related to if the hybrid versions of those are easy recommendations similar to the Prius for the slight bump up in price like the Rav4 hybrid. Main reason for buying is that my existing beat up 2008 Ford Fusion is one moderate repair bill from being a junkyard special and I'm not sure best how to handle that if my mechanic determines it's not worth fixing. Is there a normal protocol for that when it's basically valueless and not worth repairing to get it on the road? Not sure I'd even want to show it to a dealer for tradein anyway.
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Feb 28, 2021 18:13
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The new Rav4 hybrid is by all accounts a very solid option in the segment, but if your chief concern is price/value the hybrid upcharge will take several years to pay off. That said, the hybrid Rav4 is unlike many prior hybrids and it is actually more powerful and faster than the base Rav4, and gets killer fuel efficiency on top. And being a Toyota the hybrid system is likely bulletproof. I think it's a very appealing package, it has more going for it than just being a hybrid. Personally if I were buying a Rav4 I'd buy the hybrid (or even the Prime if you got cash to splash).
Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 18:41
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How does this thread think about the new vs. lightly used buying decision for the boring rear end Prius (or roughly equivalent) buyer? Like, is there a heuristic for how much is a couple years, 20k miles, and a fresh warranty is worth?
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Feb 28, 2021 21:31
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't know how the Kia Soul shakes out for bigger people but that's also a box on wheels kinda thing although you are never going to get Fit level packaging. I don't think your earlier idea of a Mk 7 Golf Wagon / Alltrack would be that bad of an idea, most of the normal issues have been ironed out and while it won't be a Honda in terms of reliability, it might be worth a couple thousand bucks over the lifetime of the car to have something that actually does check your boxes that you fit in (assuming that it does indeed check all your boxes...) Yeah I'm gonna look at Subarus too. I work from home and only use my car for leisure and groceries so if my car costs a little more to maintain and spends a day or two in the shop it's totally worth it for something that feels right
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Feb 28, 2021 22:20
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B-Mac posted:Budget: Update for everyone that helped. Ended getting a 2021 Honda Odyssey EX-L, the one my wife liked the most. Traded in my 2010 Altima and I’m driving her 2015 Rogue for now.
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Mar 1, 2021 01:01
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Boxman posted:How does this thread think about the new vs. lightly used buying decision for the boring rear end Prius (or roughly equivalent) buyer? Like, is there a heuristic for how much is a couple years, 20k miles, and a fresh warranty is worth? I’d say that right now there is very little benefit in buying a lightly used car (especially a Toyota as they depreciate slowly). Used car prices are nuts right now, and a lightly used Prius is going to cost very close to a new one in most cases. Plus you’ll generally get a better interest rate on a new car loan, all other things equal.
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Mar 1, 2021 05:58
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How are 3 year old German luxo brands doing with that calculation? The last car I bought fit into that, and I like where I landed on the depreciation curve. It's no free lunch but I think I've done okay. The prices new just seem gigantic.
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Mar 1, 2021 06:19
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I was kinda wondering the same thing because the very rock bottom price range of v60s fit in my price range (not German but similar type of brand, excluding salvage and accident cars etc) but it seems unwise to reach to be able to barely afford a Euro luxury car. Reviews say V60 is surprisingly impractical anyway due to the shape of the trunk opening
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Mar 1, 2021 06:29
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Inner Light posted:How are 3 year old German luxo brands doing with that calculation? The last car I bought fit into that, and I like where I landed on the depreciation curve. It's no free lunch but I think I've done okay. The prices new just seem gigantic. Generally luxury cars have high depreciation so buying used is a better financial decision than buying new. However, not buying a luxury car is probably the best financial decision. feelix posted:Yeah I'm gonna look at Subarus too. I work from home and only use my car for leisure and groceries so if my car costs a little more to maintain and spends a day or two in the shop it's totally worth it for something that feels right Although Subaru reliability is not Honda-like, I think you'll be fine. There are known issues to look out for. Just make sure you're aware of them and prepared.
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Mar 1, 2021 16:58
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:However, not buying a luxury car is probably the best financial decision. So many good thread titles.
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Mar 1, 2021 17:17
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Imagine if some guy who just lost a bunch of thousands of dollars because he had minimum coverage and his car got totaled was worried about stepping down from Honda reliability to Subaru reliability. loving lol. Lmao. E: just drove an Alltrack and I loved it. Felt so right. I was in a really bad mood too, so you know it was fuxki g good if it could still put a smile on my face Now I gotta try to track down a manual feelix fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 18:30
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Proposed Budget: $10,000, prefer closer to $5,000 or less to leave money for parts or wheels and stuff New or Used: Used Body Style: Convertible How will you be using the car?: Fun driving, learning some wrenching, maybe light tracking some day Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Nah What aspects are most important to you? Raw driving experience, ease of maintenance, safety, manual In this glorious world of being in covid and with-young-kids lockdown spending money on nothing, I'm getting it in my head it's a good idea to troll CL/FB for a cheap roadster for even more fun driving and learn some basic project car wrenching stuff. I've never done anything more complicated than changing a tire or adding coolant so no super tricky Euro cars. Like to be safe enough to feel comfortable putting a growing kid in the passenger seat (with whatever age/seating is appropriate - 5+yrs with largest front facing carseat I can find?) which I'm guessing means 2005+ for crumple zones side air bags and disabling passenger airbag. It'll be a secondary screw around car - I don't care about reliability/storage/etc. I'd rather have "slow and fun" over a 4s 0-60 straight line I can never use. This just means NC Miata right? I'm also eyeballing S2000s cause they seem like special cars that'll age well and 9k redline sounds great, but concerned about safety factor and if it'd actually be as/more fun than a Miata for extra cost. Love the idea of an old Boxster too cause hell yeah always loved Porsches and it'd feel more grown up, but sounds a little intimidating wrenching-wise and potential for being a money pit. 350/370z is another maybe. American stuff I've been writing off for seeming too geared toward blasting on ramps. I like how a bunch of other cars look or have some standout cool factor over the Miata, but wanted to bounce it off y'all cause my gut and googling tell me sticking with Always The Answer would be the best bet to tick all my boxes. Hoping sometime this year there'll be a wave of lockdown conception and folks will need to dump their roadsters and prices will drop back down!
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Mar 1, 2021 22:32
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Everything that is important on my Nc miata has been super reliable. Problem spots include a tearing top, problematic drainage holes that sometimes dumps water into both the footwell and trunk, and I have to do the brakes almost every drat year (and that means financially I just do them myself). I also had to swap the blower motor resistor when the hvac went out although that very well could have been because of the problematic drainage I was taking about which happens to run very close to the resistor. Good car, not practical in any sense though, obviously. It’s not as cool as any other generation miata though, and I think it has the most body roll. But it might very well be the cheapest these days?
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Mar 1, 2021 22:40
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teh_Broseph posted:350/370z is another maybe. I dunno about the newer 370z, but I had a G35 coupe (350z with slightly nicer interior and a sorta useable back seat) after having an NB Mazdaspeed Miata and ultimately found it kinda boring and not even close to the fun I had with the Miata.
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Mar 1, 2021 23:00
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feelix posted:I was kinda wondering the same thing because the very rock bottom price range of v60s fit in my price range (not German but similar type of brand, excluding salvage and accident cars etc) but it seems unwise to reach to be able to barely afford a Euro luxury car. Reviews say V60 is surprisingly impractical anyway due to the shape of the trunk opening Why exactly do you want a Volvo? They aren’t terribly reliable and have extremely high repair costs (like even compared to other Euro brands in my experience)
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Mar 1, 2021 23:39
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Post-Geely Volvos have consistently been at the bottom of the Consumer Reports list for vehicle reliability, sharing those bottom slots with renowned reliable brands such as Jaguar, Land Rover, and Alfa Romeo. Say what you will about CR's methodology, but that's pretty damning. They are bad even among their euro-lux peers. You're better off with a BMW or Audi, which when we're talking used cars is not very well off to start with but hey.
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Mar 1, 2021 23:45
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teh_Broseph posted:Proposed Budget: $10,000, prefer closer to $5,000 or less to leave money for parts or wheels and stuff Given your criteria of safety, and ease to work on, you should get an NC Miata. I will use this post as an excuse to post and get feedback on my current research into the $10K or less fun car market. The two big omissions, E36/E46/E90 BMWs, and FWD Hondas, aren't here because I haven't seriously looked into them yet. Mazda Miata (NA/NB): The cheapest and purest option on this list, with a fantastic aftermarket. While it could be a COVID side effect, I think the NA and NB stock is starting to finally get low. $5K could get you a driver-grade car all day 5-6 years ago but you're likely buying someone else's unfinished project for that price today. The other concern I have is crash safety. My Kia Optima feels like a Super Duty next to an NA Miata, let alone the normal family vehicles of today, a Forester or a Highlander. Health insurance in the US is way too lovely for me to consider driving one on well-traveled public roads. Mazda Miata (NC): Very underrated. The weight issue isn't that big. The difference between a late NB and an NC is 50-100 pounds. For that, you get a significantly safer car, and it is still true to the Miata formula. The real cons are that the aftermarket isn't as well-developed yet as the NA/NB one, and the NC1 suspension could use improvement. The engine, gearbox, and suspension upgrades on the NC2 (2009+) are worth considering if you're not planning on seriously modding. Nissan 350Z: The best muscle car of its era. Reliable, quick, and can turn too with some work. Insurance is generally high because the 350Z is the current car of choice for morons who think they're the next Drift King. Porsche Boxster (986): The Boxster occupies the space once held by the 914 and 944 as the cheapest Porsche on the market. Frankly, I'd rather have a 986 over a base 996. But a Boxster is only cheap if you have the time, space, and skill to do your own work. C4 Corvette: The 1989 and later C4 Corvettes are underrated for going fast. They also look better than the jellybean C5, and you can regularly find one in this price range. But I feel like the aftermarket isn't as great for the C4 as it is for the C5, and an 80s GM interior will likely be a bridge too far for you. C5 Corvette: It has an LS motor from the factory, and it can turn. Many people who get tired of giving point-bys in stock Miatas during track days end up in C5s. The interior isn't that bad for a 2nd car. The problem here is finding one. The Boomers who have these cars either list them at a stupid price so that "I can get the OLD BALL AND CHAIN off my back", or they genuinely think that out of the 125K C5s produced, theirs is The One. Never mind the fact that for the price that their C5 is listed at, you can buy a C6 now.
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Mar 2, 2021 01:40
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Godzilla07 posted:Porsche Boxster (986): The Boxster occupies the space once held by the 914 and 944 as the cheapest Porsche on the market. Frankly, I'd rather have a 986 over a base 996. But a Boxster is only cheap if you have the time, space, and skill to do your own work. 914 and 924. The 944/968 were the mid market, i.e. Cayman.
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Mar 2, 2021 01:58
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teh_Broseph posted:Proposed Budget: $10,000, prefer closer to $5,000 or less to leave money for parts or wheels and stuff you don't want a S2K you can buy for under 10k these days imo. The safety thing makes it tricky, otherwise I would go old. The value is better, things are easier to work on, you'll get a more "raw" driving experience and all that poo poo. If you won't daily it I'd think long and hard about the safety factor. Yes, you don't wanna put a kid in it on the regular but if the kid occasionally goes to the grocery store in an E30 they won't die. Food for thought, anyway - a NC Miata isn't all that safe either as far as things go. Motronic posted:914 and 924. ehh the structure's a little different since they split the coupes and convertibles in to separate nameplates. I don't think Cayman is significantly upmarket compared to Boxster, and if you are going by price the Cayman is technically entry level now. They all occupied the much loathed "not the 911" space; beyond that it's splitting hairs with questionable fidelity.
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Mar 2, 2021 04:09
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Red_Fred posted:Proposed Budget: 20-40k NZD Anybody got anything for me here?
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Mar 2, 2021 07:03
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There aren't too many things that check all your boxes. I presume the AWD rally bois are too lowbrow for you but if not you can go that way. AWD and your premium requirement kills off some other good dynamics ideas that are more in the hot hatch vein (CTR, Megane RS). The other ideas offhand: A-class AMG (if you got it) - maybe a bit pricey? RS3 - shorter, faster, angrier, maybe too pricey? TTRS - even shorter, faster, angrier, probably too expensive Golf R - probably more within your price range, less good driving dynamics than the 1-series
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Mar 2, 2021 14:38
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Maybe if you’re not needing all the performance parts, the Mazda cx line looks pretty good? The turbo charged ones look pretty fast actually. I was thinking of test driving one . I can never remember which is which though, cx-5 cx30, cx-3. I wonder how the awd handles winter driving compared to say, a crosstrek
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Mar 2, 2021 18:39
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CX3- tiny (based on the Mazda2 I think?). It’s pretty slow; no option for the turbo engine. Probably going to be phased o it within the next few years. CX30- smallish, more or less a taller Mazda3. Only costs about $1000 more than the CX3 (in the US at least) and has two 2.5 liter engine options (non turbo and turbo), both of which are better than the 2.0 in the CX3. CX5- larger, competes with the CRV, Rav4, etc. Same engine options as the CX30, but a bit roomier inside. CX8- exclusive to Asia/Oceania, believe this is a long wheelbase version of the CX5? I bought a Mazda3 AWD Turbo last week and loving love it so far. The interior is every bit as nice as the cheapest Audi/BMW/Merc offerings, and the 2.5 turbo has a ton of usable torque at low RPM’s. Bouillon Rube fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 18:53
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:There aren't too many things that check all your boxes. I presume the AWD rally bois are too lowbrow for you but if not you can go that way. AWD and your premium requirement kills off some other good dynamics ideas that are more in the hot hatch vein (CTR, Megane RS). The other ideas offhand: I’m not adverse to hot hatches. Just want to get away from a coupe as we have a dog now. Yeah those first three are too expensive. Another nice option would be the CLA AMG but again too much.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:08
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STi hatch?
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Mar 3, 2021 14:51
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Am I loving crazy for looking at a 2019 Lexus es350? I can trade in my truck for more than I paid for it. Yes-use cases are obscenely different. I like riding in a truck, but my new job might have me commuting much more and a more comfortable drive wouldn’t be too bad, especially with all the creature comforts (heated steering wheel, vented seats, etc) Looking at used 2019 ES350’s, it’d be a wash when it comes to cost.
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Mar 3, 2021 16:29
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Why not the RWD GS350 series? .....and yeah, used crew cab pickup truck prices are still nuts and good time to cash out and wait. I finally just accepted an offer from Vroom on my 2018 Silverado for like $4k less than I paid for it new back in Jan 2018.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:31
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Keyser_Soze posted:Why not the RWD GS350 series? GS uses premium gas right? Not really looking to mandate the use of premium if I can avoid it. RWD? Hesitant because of snow. At least my truck is 4wd...yes I know snow tires trump everything.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:44
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If I was going all the way in to soft comfy Lexus territory I would probably get the ES300h. Sure it's slower but you're not buying an ES350 for the 0-60 times. I don't think the GS is all that good. Sure, it's RWD and handles better, but it's more oriented toward comfort than sport. It's also more expensive.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:56
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nwin posted:Am I loving crazy for looking at a 2019 Lexus es350? Nah, it's a Toyota/Lexus. It's objectively the right choice for most people, especially if the alternative is a truck that you're commuting much more in.
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Mar 3, 2021 18:59
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It looks like the 2019 ES350 was FWD only but AWD available in 2021. GS350 seems to have both in 2019......but the model was discontinued in 2020. As already pointed out, it doesn't look like you can go wrong here, only complaints seem to be audio/electronics gripes.
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Mar 3, 2021 21:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't think the GS is all that good. Sure, it's RWD and handles better, but it's more oriented toward comfort than sport. It's also more expensive. You ever driven a GS? It felt great to me, was quicker and way sportier than our LS. I liked it a lot. But yeah compared to your M5 probably not so sporty 
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Mar 3, 2021 21:29
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Yes, but it was an older GS430, third gen with the 3UZ. I will admit that my opinion about fast midsized sedans is fairly biased. I also don't really care for competent all-rounders at that kind of price point. For like $50 grand you better be giving me a really sort of distinctive experience, which I think both the ES and LS do much better.
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Mar 3, 2021 21:55
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:STi hatch? Seems most of the newer ones are sedans around me. I’ll keep a look out though. They are all manuals right?
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Mar 3, 2021 21:55
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Red_Fred posted:Seems most of the newer ones are sedans around me. I’ll keep a look out though. They are all manuals right? Yes. If you can tolerate FWD (not sure what your AWD use case is exactly), the Megane RS and Civic Type R would be on my list of fast, good handling hatchbacks. Maybe FoRS too if you got them?
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Mar 3, 2021 21:57
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My first thought driving a Prius was, "this feels sportier than I'm used to," which says less about the Prius and more about an old base model Toyota Matrix.
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Mar 3, 2021 22:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Yes, but it was an older GS430, third gen with the 3UZ. I will admit that my opinion about fast midsized sedans is fairly biased. I also don't really care for competent all-rounders at that kind of price point. For like $50 grand you better be giving me a really sort of distinctive experience, which I think both the ES and LS do much better. I drove a fourth gen, never drove a third gen so not sure how they compare I disagree about the ES there, not very distinctive imo. On the used market you can get a (comparable year) fourth gen GS for a few grand more and have a much better driving experience and interior, also the ES is a souped up Camry that's pretty common. The GS isn't all that common and that's kinda cool too.
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Mar 3, 2021 22:57
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agree to disagree, the ES to me is the ur-reliable entry luxury boringcar. that's distinctive to me in a way that an E class that's worse in every conceivable way other than reliability is not. edit the GS isn't common but it's extraordinarily anonymous other than predatorface grille on the 4th gen
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Mar 3, 2021 23:00
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Proposed Budget: $12k-16k, could go a touch higher for just the right one New or Used: Used Body Style: Wagon or crossover-SUV/small SUVish thing, pref. AWD/4x4 How will you be using the car?: Non-commute fun vehicle for camping, road trips; light towing of a trailer (see below) What aspects are most important to you? Modern driver-assist tech, decent ground clearance, good visibility, tow at least 1500lb, AWD Heyyyy AI, long time no see guys! My wife and I already have a 2003 Mazda Protege5 that we will continue to use for her 2x a week commute, it's got 160k on it and we just did a good refresh - new brakes, tires, timing belt, pullies, water pump, accessory belts, front lower control arms & ball joints, front struts and springs, transmission flush, brake fluid, it was kind of a lot, but really the first major service since I bought the car ten years ago other than the stuff I did myself for basic maintenance so it was overdue, and I fully expect another 100k out of it. I work from home, so we don't need a 2nd car, but we've had our 92 chevy S10 forever and it hasn't run in a year and I'm ready to be done with it. It failed california smog due to burning oil, I tried to fix that by replacing valve stem seals, had to teach myself how to set valve lash via trial and error, but I think just due to sitting a lot for ten years, plus having 220k on the engine, it's actually just needing a full engine-out rebuild and we decided we'd rather replace the old bastard with something a lot newer, safer, etc. Initially we looked at newer pick up trucks but boy am I not impressed with what I can get for around $12k. Functional, yes, but lovely cheap american truck interiors, tons of bad maintenance, etc. and honestly we only use the bed of the truck maybe 3-5 times a year. Wouldn't it be way better to get a trailer for that stuff, and have a second car that can pull it? Yes, yes it would, so what we are now looking at is a car, but ideally something big enough to do like, camping trips, long road trips in comfort, able to sleep in the back, be safe, etc. My wife really likes modern driver assist stuff like backup camera, lane warning, etc. and the cars we've looked at so far seem to have those things so I put them on the list. It's surprising how many cars have lovely or no tow capacity. I had to eliminate my first choice, a Crosstrek, and my second choice, a VW Sportwagen, because of poor/zero towing capacity. We've found three cars of particular interest: Subaru Outback, ~2015, we test drove a 2016 2.5i Limited last week with 109k on the clock listed for $15k VW Tiguan, ~2015, we test drove a 2015 SE last week with 67k on the clock listed for $11.5k, the SE model doesn't come standard with AWD but we found AWD examples farther away for not a lot more money Volvo V60 T5, ~2015, we found a couple listings over in Marin (1.5hrs drive) with 55k mi listed for $15.3, this car is only 2WD but Volvos have extremely good tow capacity somehow, note those values are all in KG. I also have on my list to check out the Mazda CX-5, listed towing capacity is 2k lbs, we generally like Mazda but my wife is not impressed with the seemingly narrow rear window, she's worried it'll have poor visibility so we haven't test drove one yet. We found the driving of the Tiguan to be a bit disconnected, felt like the pedal and the steering wheel have no feedback, but we only drove it at about 25mph so maybe it stiffens up at freeway speeds or something? We did like the panaramic sunroof on the Tiguan, it was very comfortable, and we liked the styling. We also appreciated its much better turning radius compared to the Outback, which was hard to maneuver out of the dealer lot. Today we're leaning towards the Outback over the Tiguan anyway, due to better driving feel, more cargo space, and Subaru's reputation for good AWD, but we haven't gotten a chance to test drive the Volvo yet and that's just a slight lean at this point. So the question for AI car buying thread today is: Are we missing any models we should be looking at here? Secondary would be if there's strong reasons to reject any of the models listed above: I realize a lot of folks don't like VW, but I do, so I'm not eliminating VW just due to slightly poorer reliability ratings or the whole TDI fiasco or whatever. e. I just read this page and I see the reliability warnings on the V60. I will definitely take a look into that. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 00:17
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Subaru Forester, but the pre CVT models
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Mar 4, 2021 00:32
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