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aphid_licker posted:Yeah the references seem to all point to this 1986 article that you probably refer to and that I can't seem to find a full text of rn: https://europepmc.org/article/med/3788046 One of the references I saw that pointed to that article even specifically stated it the reference to the practice was anecdotal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3550200/ quote:After 1938, medical prescription of DNP stopped and cases of poisoning due to medical intake were no longer reported, but case reports of deaths associated with the ingestion of DNP still emerged [14, 15]. It is anecdotally reported to have been prescribed to the Russian soldiers during World War II to keep them warm [16]. 16 is that 1986 article. So right now I'm inclined heavily towards "Bullshit!"
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Mar 4, 2021 19:29
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Nenonen posted:Leopard ½ has the best ventilation around. Just make sure you keep the enemy to the front and right. Suspension work only takes half the time of other tanks.
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Mar 4, 2021 19:35
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I didn't realize the driver's seat was so awkward
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Mar 4, 2021 20:32
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That's the toilet
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Mar 4, 2021 21:18
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Poop is stored in the hull.
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Mar 4, 2021 21:26
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I didn't realize the driver's seat was so awkward Yeah, hull height is largely dictated by driver and engine height. It's easy to make engines flatter, but to make the driver flatter you have to do ridiculous tricks like this.
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Mar 4, 2021 21:54
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Ensign Expendable posted:Yeah, hull height is largely dictated by driver and engine height. It's easy to make engines flatter, but to make the driver flatter you have to do ridiculous tricks like this. what about hydraulic presses?
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Mar 4, 2021 21:56
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M-1A1 driver's position: It's surprisingly comfortable.
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Mar 4, 2021 22:18
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Yeah that looks very cozy. Like a very nice movie theatre seat
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Mar 4, 2021 22:21
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Man problem with that half-tank isn't even the height, dude just needs 30cm more legroom so he isn't folded up like that anymore.
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Mar 4, 2021 22:24
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It kinda looks like the seat is adjustable?
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Mar 4, 2021 23:07
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Cessna posted:M-1A1 driver's position: drat, do people with claustrophobia wash out of tank units often or do they make you get over it
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Mar 4, 2021 23:10
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zoux posted:drat, do people with claustrophobia wash out of tank units often or do they make you get over it I assume they are just not assigned to them unless absolutely necessary.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:12
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zoux posted:drat, do people with claustrophobia wash out of tank units often or do they make you get over it I was going to ask the same thing. I guess there’s not a position to sit up out of the hatch or anything is there?
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Mar 4, 2021 23:41
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TK-42-1 posted:I was going to ask the same thing. I guess there’s not a position to sit up out of the hatch or anything is there? AINA Abrams Crewman but my cousin was, I'm pretty sure you drive with your head out of the hatch most of the time, outside of combat obviously.  Do modern TCs ever fight unbuttoned like in WW2 or have optics rendered that obsolete?
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Mar 4, 2021 23:50
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Chieftain says he liked to be unbuttoned as much as possible (and I think he served in Iraq at some point?); even if small arms was a thing you would try to stay at open-protected rather than buttoning up entirely.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:54
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Do modern TCs ever fight unbuttoned like in WW2 or have optics rendered that obsolete? When I was in the TC was ALWAYS head-out unless he was currently being shot at. And even then, you'd drop down/in and wouldn't lock the hatches unless you were within throwing distance (in which case things are so bad you have other problems). You really, really want as many eyes out looking for threats as you can get. This includes your loader. (Edit: Gunners stay inside, on the sight. Drivers also stay in unless the turret is in travel-lock.) I suspect that is still the case today, but might not be in the future. Cessna fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 23:57
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TK-42-1 posted:I was going to ask the same thing. I guess there’s not a position to sit up out of the hatch or anything is there? On western 4-man tanks loader and TC have turret hatch and outside of combat spend a ton of time looking around. Driver hatches stays closed unless turret isnt moving (most tanks have a circuit connection between the driver hatch and gun traverse that either unpowers traverse during hatch being open or requires override confirmation) which means 90% of actual tactical training and 99% of combat driver is buttoned up. Gunners are stuck inside, period :P their space is the most cramped and dark and hot. On three-man tanks the gunner has half the turret and TC the other half, But again the gunner spends more time under hatch level Because he needs to control the big weewee. Theres still no optic that travels as fast abd as accurately with as wide an FOV as the mk1 eyeball, So poking your head up and taking a look is still the fastest way for a tank commander to figure out his bearings and gain situational awareness.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:04
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Does the loader duck his head back down when he has to actually load, or how does that work?
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Mar 5, 2021 00:13
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Valtonen posted:(most tanks have a circuit connection between the driver hatch and gun traverse that either unpowers traverse during hatch being open or requires override confirmation) which means 90% of actual tactical training and 99% of combat driver is buttoned up. On old M60A1s the unit SOP was hatch closed unless in travel-lock. The Lone Badger posted:Does the loader duck his head back down when he has to actually load, or how does that work? Yes, you need to be down in to load. Generally the hatch is left open for safety and ventilation.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:16
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The Lone Badger posted:Does the loader duck his head back down when he has to actually load, or how does that work? The rounds are heavy, So once the actual loading starts he is stuck standing loading down inside. But aside from slinging big bullets, Good loader looks and cares the coax feed, peeks around, helps point out stuff, and is in general trying his best to be useful. In the turret the TC has a chair that can be sat on (while looking at optics) or stood on (to peek out) while loader works standing, with his seat being either on swiwel or removable, and majority of time only acting as his standstool to stay above hatch scanning.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:21
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I remember an old (WWII) instruction video on anti-tank tactics for infantry, where main objective of the riflemen was to reduce the tank crew's situational awareness, to make life easier for the people with actual AT weapons. This was done first by shooting at any crewmembers that had their heads out to make them duck into the tank, and then shoot at any periscopes, vision blocks or other optics they could identify to make them less useful. I'm gonna gueass that at least the first of these would be effective against a modern tank, since a squad of grunts using your head for target practice will probably make most people do a quick turtle imitation.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:26
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Yes, though modern tanks have a lot more options in terms of camera mounted weapons that can be directed at troops on foot harassing you. Not to mention that they are much more resistant to the sorts of AT weapons infantry can bring (like that Challenger 2 in Iraq that got hit with over 70 RPGs and survived)
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Mar 5, 2021 00:44
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Otoh you're going to have to shout at me very loudly to get me to do something that will attract a tank's attention towards me while not actually disabling it in any way.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:46
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My impression from past auto vs manual loader chat is that the actual purpose of the (person) loader is to be an extra set of eyes and hands for general care and feeding of the tank. They load the gun too since you're carrying them anyway and might as well use them for something while shooting
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Mar 5, 2021 00:59
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Is radar a useful thing for tank situational awareness?
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Mar 5, 2021 01:14
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The Lone Badger posted:Is radar a useful thing for tank situational awareness? radar generally isn't useful if both target and emitter are at ground level. Too much random stuff like bushes and trees and elevation changes at the same level that the radio waves bounce off of. Most tanks don't have much AA capability so pointing a radar set skyward isn't much good either.
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Mar 5, 2021 01:33
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Is there a general acknowledgement that loaders have the shittiest job in the tank? Are they the most junior members, before they train to be a gunner/TC?
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Mar 5, 2021 02:50
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The Lone Badger posted:Is radar a useful thing for tank situational awareness? The good thing to have is Thermals, which I think all modern tanks have now?
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Mar 5, 2021 02:59
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PittTheElder posted:The good thing to have is Thermals, which I think all modern tanks have now? For that matter, do new tanks try to have thermal camouflage where they're only hot if seen from behind? Or at least try to keep the turret cold to be able to hide hull-down?
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Mar 5, 2021 03:01
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lots of equipment gets special blankets 
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Mar 5, 2021 03:06
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Does anyone have a link to those Iran-Iraq war effort posts? They were last thread right? Edit: Found one https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3785167&pagenumber=542&perpage=40&userid=0#post474849107 Lawman 0 fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 03:27
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What viewing equipment did tanks use during WW2 and how did they differ by country/over time? The discussion about how the M48 was much better than the Panther because of all the advances in optical technology piqued my interest.zoux posted:This is an interesting question, well to me at least: how did y'all get into military history? I found out about the Nazis and WW2 from watching Raiders of the Lost Ark.
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Mar 5, 2021 04:06
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Grumio posted:Is there a general acknowledgement that loaders have the shittiest job in the tank? Are they the most junior members, before they train to be a gunner/TC? My cousin went loader-driver-gunner-the gently caress out of the army
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Mar 5, 2021 04:13
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:radar generally isn't useful if both target and emitter are at ground level. Too much random stuff like bushes and trees and elevation changes at the same level that the radio waves bounce off of. drat it. Now I'm gonna spend half the night cause I'm curious how LADAR is being used, if it is at all, in a military context. Thanks. (But also non-sarcastic thanks cause I'll probably be happy.) Cessna posted:M-1A1 driver's position: There must be a whole mess of things that make that suck that aren't salient to me in the photo, but that looks identical to me snuggling up and watching Coco on my laptop or whatever. Motherfucker looks like he's driving a Snuggie.
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Mar 5, 2021 04:58
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Xiahou Dun posted:drat it. Now I'm gonna spend half the night cause I'm curious how LADAR is being used, if it is at all, in a military context. Thanks. (But also non-sarcastic thanks cause I'll probably be happy.) I'm going to guess that it's kinda like car cruise control in that it looks for things that are both a) big and b) moving. Then it flags for the tank commanders attention to take a look and see what it actually is. Stationary objects may be ignored as being extremely difficult to tell from terrain, but if it sees something move and gets the commander to look in the right direction two seconds earlier than he otherwise would have then it has done its job.
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Mar 5, 2021 05:05
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The Lone Badger posted:I'm going to guess that it's kinda like car cruise control in that it looks for things that are both a) big and b) moving. Then it flags for the tank commanders attention to take a look and see what it actually is. As long as it’s doing a Clippy(tm) noise to attract attention.
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Mar 5, 2021 05:41
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1. You don't want to be unbuttoned next to a big microwave emitter 2. Having a big microwave emitter blaring is like a lighthouse on a starry night for anyone who can see the light Laser radar isn't be safe from the latter either.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:19
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Does the commander at least have a screen which displays the locations of all friendlies and reported locations of all known enemies?
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Mar 5, 2021 08:29
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White Coke posted:What viewing equipment did tanks use during WW2 and how did they differ by country/over time? The discussion about how the M48 was much better than the Panther because of all the advances in optical technology piqued my interest. The Panther in particular was extra poo poo because the gunner didn’t have a wide‐view scope, only the highly‐magnified gun sight, so target acquisition took longer.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:53
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