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Con Baby would have worked better if she was just a normal baby and it was actually the monkeys running the scam, because that is absolutely something a gang of monkeys would do (and I don't even mean a gang of intelligent Disney cartoon monkeys; I would totally believe you if you told me that a bunch of real-life monkeys stole an orphaned infant and used it to distract some tourists in order to steal their poo poo).
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Mar 9, 2021 00:25
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I *guess* it made thematic sense they never tried but I love that apparently the dragon orb could just easily be put back together with no issue, even all the dragons being dead and it starting to fail was totally solved by just putting it together. They didn't need the dragon and it didn't actually help any at all. they could have fixed the issue at literally any time by doing the most obvious thing of just putting the gem they broke physically back together
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Mar 9, 2021 00:56
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I *guess* it made thematic sense they never tried but I love that apparently the dragon orb could just easily be put back together with no issue, even all the dragons being dead and it starting to fail was totally solved by just putting it together. They didn't need the dragon and it didn't actually help any at all. they could have fixed the issue at literally any time by doing the most obvious thing of just putting the gem they broke physically back together Yeah in fact it's totally irrelevant that different bits give Sisu powers. lol.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:06
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as an orb, i reject the implication that we lose our powers from being dismantled
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Mar 9, 2021 01:07
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Maybe the moral is meant to be "It's not going to work out all the time, but you can't go through life not trusting anyone until proven otherwise either. Be prepared, but don't be afraid and never feel ashamed to try in the first place." Also if Sisu hadn't been 'the best dragon' in the sense that she was the evil dragon sibling before, perhaps responsible for the creation of the Druun somehow, maybe her siblings trusting her to do what's right despite her actions prior and her thinking she was a useless screw-up would've tied nicely into Namaari's whole deal.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:10
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It's a stretch but if Raya never trusted Namaari enough to show her the Dragon Gem then perhaps Kumandra would have never reunited? Hence Sisu's line about the world being broken because she doesn't trust anybody. That's what I'm choosing to believe because otherwise the message is broken from the jump. 
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Mar 9, 2021 01:33
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Pick posted:Yeah in fact it's totally irrelevant that different bits give Sisu powers. lol. We never even see what the final power is!
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Mar 9, 2021 01:54
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:We never even see what the final power is! making a good movie lol
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Mar 9, 2021 01:55
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Pick posted:making a good movie lol I wouldn’t say the movie is bad, but it is funny the dragons character arc was her thinking of herself as useless and then the plot showing she really wasn’t necessary at all to anything and her presence really didn’t matter at all in the end.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:01
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Well this looks cool as heck. https://mobile.twitter.com/SonyAnimation/status/1369013658265604100
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Mar 9, 2021 02:06
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All this Raya talk is making it sound like Disneys version of Kubo the two strings.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:21
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They saw those League of Legends videos and said, "Yeah, we can steal that."
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Mar 9, 2021 02:29
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What is everyone's theory on how many people it would make to make a compelling animated feature using today's technology? I think with 25 minimum but preferably 40-50 You could get some serious poo poo going, and everyone could get a cut.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:29
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FunkyAl posted:What is everyone's theory on how many people it would make to make a compelling animated feature using today's technology? I think with 25 minimum but preferably 40-50 You could get some serious poo poo going, and everyone could get a cut.
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Mar 9, 2021 03:43
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I think the Hazbin Hotel folks are staking out the boundaries of what can be done with crowdsourcing / fandom auteur energy e: exactly Data Graham fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 03:48
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oof
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Mar 9, 2021 03:49
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perepelki posted:anybody who tries to start an independent animation project will be assassinated by the mouse squad It didn't stop Jim Henson!
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Mar 9, 2021 04:03
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SolarFire2 posted:They saw those League of Legends videos and said, "Yeah, we can steal that." I have faith in the director because she’s actually Korean and has serious story chops, was a story artist at all the big studios and Head of Story at Warner Bros. If this was some white guy or even an Asian artist who was from an animation background I’d be worried, but story artists usually make solid directors. FunkyAl posted:What is everyone's theory on how many people it would make to make a compelling animated feature using today's technology? I think with 25 minimum but preferably 40-50 You could get some serious poo poo going, and everyone could get a cut. I know guys who have made features single handedly. But the distribution model has kind of hosed it up for everyone, making profit sharing not really viable among crew. The games industry has a much better method for small teams getting a proper share of their work. Ccs fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 04:44
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I like Hazbin okay despite the "cringe," because it just takes guts and mind to orchestrate indie cartoons. BUT I would also dig a more adult reading level thing. Cartoons are great for kids, even great for kids specificallly. But adult productions too suffer from not really being made at adult reading levels. Again, I am sure the system makes it tough to wrangle, but why have a system for making movies if the movies ain't doing it
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Mar 9, 2021 04:54
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Ccs posted:I know guys who have made features single handedly. But the distribution model has kind of hosed it up for everyone, making profit sharing not really viable among crew. The games industry has a much better method for small teams getting a proper share of their work. I'd be interested in hearing more about this. And now, too, interested in releasing movies on steam
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Mar 9, 2021 05:02
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teagone posted:Wyasnt Raya's production a complete mess? That'd probably explain why the story/writing doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. I really do get the vibes of a movie whose major plot points were lost in the shuffle several rewrites ago.
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Mar 9, 2021 05:12
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FunkyAl posted:I'd be interested in hearing more about this. And now, too, interested in releasing movies on steam Here’s an interview with a friend of mine who made a film on his own. He mentions the distribution model is a bit better if you are established. He works with Tomm Moore a lot, and Tom already had Oscar nomination under his belt before his first feature. But a lot of the time the money comes with many strings attached, alongside Hollywood accounting, because at some point you need to deal with producers who work that way. https://www.skwigly.co.uk/elliot-cowan/
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Mar 9, 2021 06:01
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Ccs posted:Kinda sad Tom and Jerry did better at the box office than Raya. There's like 14 minutes of animation in the whole film, it's rendered in a way that must have been super cheap (I hope, if those shaders cost computing power then that's sad) and it's apparently awful. I don't know, this Tom and Jerry reboot looks wild. https://twitter.com/THR/status/1369062777000783876?s=20
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Mar 9, 2021 10:15
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"Jerry, why did you say that name?!" (Not sure if this is a Snyder crossover with Tom & Jerry or Seinfeld)
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Mar 9, 2021 13:43
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FunkyAl posted:
They make stuff like that, serious topic stuff like waltz with bashir, extremely boring memoir stuff like flavors of youth, art experimental things like blood tea and the red string or the wolf house. It's not like there isn't animation for adults (beyond "adults only" animation). I think the thing is, if you make animation for grown ups that is just regular normal fiction you either just make yourself a target for people to talk about how much smarter they are than this 'pretentious' thing, or else you make something that would have just had more viewers if they made it all ages.
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Mar 9, 2021 14:53
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Pick posted:oof Pick, I'm sorry, but I regret to inform you that Hellava Boss is a really fun cartoon and I've enjoyed every episode so far. I was totally neutral on Hazbin Hotel, but Hellava Boss is a delight.
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Mar 9, 2021 15:52
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flashy_mcflash posted:I think it's partly a marketing tool (my daughter has been calling herself a 'dragon nerd' since Saturday) and partly because the society in this movie is a whole lot closer (5 generations) to being actually saved by these creatures who existed IRL than anyone is to Jesus or other religious figures. Like, they have evidence that the dragons were real based on them existing as stone statues and with the crystal so it would be pretty natural for kids to revere them and express that in a more 'modern' parlance imo. What I find very funny about the dragon nerd thing is that...she's not. Raya can recognize a Sisu necklace, the dragon they have worshipped her entire life, but every dragon revelation after that astonishes her. It would have proven her dragon nerdiness if she was the one who identified where Sisu's new powers were coming from. (Not to be a dragon nerd gatekeeper or anything.) This is the second time in about as many years that Disney has written people coming back into the world after being gone/frozen for years. How did Sisu's brothers and sisters end up at the temple? Were they frozen there? Were those just actual statues? The whole "this is where it happened" followed by flashback scenes of it not happening there was confusing. Not a very well-plotted film but it was a pleasant enough watch.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:40
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:They make stuff like that, serious topic stuff like waltz with bashir, extremely boring memoir stuff like flavors of youth, art experimental things like blood tea and the red string or the wolf house. It's not like there isn't animation for adults (beyond "adults only" animation). That is true and I love all this stuff, but I am always frustrated with how hard it is to see outside of festivals. There's so much great stuff I saw in school that was just a burned DVD the professor or the department had, that deserves the exposure and love of some impossible to like frozen nonsense. I don't agree with that second statement! Whenever I believe I am smarter than some pretentious seeming indie film I am almost always proven wrong by the end, and generally I don't think people need to prove themselves smarter than movies that are smarter than them. Often they will make themselves seem smart by pointing out media they can tell is stupider than they are, like mst3k, new simpsons, this thread every time a disney film comes out, and so on. But even in the realm of the explicitly commercial, it is not impossible to put things in a film that communicate things visually and deeply, and is a main subversive strength of the genre. This is like a magic book you give to kids. It should have details to read and that build to meaning, not just candy. Movies for kids are not enough at an adult reading level, if that makes sense.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:45
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FunkyAl posted:But even in the realm of the explicitly commercial, it is not impossible to put things in a film that communicate things visually and deeply, and is a main subversive strength of the genre. This is like a magic book you give to kids. It should have details to read and that build to meaning, not just candy. Movies for kids are not enough at an adult reading level, if that makes sense. I think I get what you mean. An American Tail and Frozen are both kid's cartoons, but An American Tail is clearly a more adult kid's cartoon.
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Mar 9, 2021 18:33
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I just watched Jenny Nicholson's 70 minute dissection of the entire brony fandom/phenomenon, including its really dark side, and it's fascinating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fVOF2PiHnc Prior to this i had only seen like one episode of MLP, as well as that documentary Bronies -- Jenny actually does a segment in her video about how that documentary was a very flawed/inaccurate (and weirdly homophobic) portrayal of the fandom and was produced mostly as a cash-grab Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 01:51
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Yeah it's a pretty good summary/postmortem. I always felt there was more going on sociologically than people realized, and thought that years from now it would be recognized as a kind of turning point in how we as a culture view things like masculinity (toxic or otherwise) and sexuality, as regards who watches it and what they get out of it. But the weird nazi/incel/creeper undercurrent kind of took a disproportionate chunk of the spotlight as time went on, and now the segment of the fanbase that I knew and that I expected to be the vanguard of some new and more enlightened male cohort who recognize that things can be both for girls AND good, ended up just with a much better and often first-hand appreciation for transgender issues. It's good it happened, on balance.
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Mar 10, 2021 02:16
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Mar 10, 2021 02:54
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Mar 10, 2021 03:07
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Once again, the answer is "Cool World"
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Mar 10, 2021 03:14
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FunkyAl posted:Once again, the answer is "Cool World"
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Mar 10, 2021 04:28
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Comic books have been doing that for years.
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Mar 10, 2021 05:26
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I *guess* it made thematic sense they never tried but I love that apparently the dragon orb could just easily be put back together with no issue, even all the dragons being dead and it starting to fail was totally solved by just putting it together. They didn't need the dragon and it didn't actually help any at all. they could have fixed the issue at literally any time by doing the most obvious thing of just putting the gem they broke physically back together Owlofcreamcheese posted:We never even see what the final power is! This was confusing but there was no final power. The gem broke into 5 pieces but Sisu only had four siblings. A mistake or maybe at some point they needed to change the story and dropped one? Sisu should have gotten her swimming power "back" from the first piece... That would explain why she floated down the river and never came back.
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Mar 10, 2021 05:53
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Zero One posted:I mean... That was the whole point? The orb was keeping the Drun away and when the greed of the various nations shattered it they came back. The "most obvious thing" wasn't going to happen because everyone wanted to keep their part of the gem. The nations not wanting to work together was the driving force of the movie. Yeah, obviously. The "correct" ending to the movie is absolutely the "the power to fix things was in you all along, you don't need dragons to do it". It's just that the movie never actually set that up or executed on it. Specifically because they tried to have the dragon have a "aw gosh, I'm just a useless old loser" plot then the dragon is in fact useless, no one relies on her, and the twist of 'she wasn't needed at all, you can just put it back together whenever" doesn't really mean much. (it also feels like the working together part doesn't matter, if fang kingdom just did what they wanted and invaded and stole all the gems the result would have been the same anyway. If each kingdom willingly gave their gems to raya at the end that is a moral, raya just stole them all, fang could have stolen them all just as well and seemed to be planning to. Like I guess they mentioned it would be outside colonies so maybe the stolen gems wouldn't be put back together, but it feels like someone would do that at SOME point. )
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Mar 10, 2021 13:52
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, obviously. The "correct" ending to the movie is absolutely the "the power to fix things was in you all along, you don't need dragons to do it". It's just that the movie never actually set that up or executed on it. Yeah. Raya went looking for Sisu based on the belief that only Sisu could fix things. It turned out that was not true but Sisu teaching Raya to trust again was the key for fixing things. But those and other plots were all kinda lost at some point during production.
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Mar 10, 2021 23:43
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Yeah, let's be clear, this is partially frustrating because there's a really really coherent first draft of a much better film in there.
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Mar 10, 2021 23:45
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