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Martman posted:That argument right there is a great example of the dishonesty in action. I liked Jeremy Jahns review of it where he's like, "when you cut 30 minutes out of something - yeah, it's gonna be weird". And he said it made the movie much better for him (still didnt like Lex which is fair). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqhPVeDqRg8
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Mar 9, 2021 20:23
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Hey Eugene, would you care to keep posting in the thread? I was wondering if you could comment on some recent developments.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:28
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Martman posted:That argument right there is a great example of the dishonesty in action. Reaction to the IMAX-ratio BvS has been fairly muted beyond the initial "oh, cool?".
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Mar 9, 2021 20:31
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Tbf to Eugene (although after that discord post...why would I even want to be) I did use the term "final cut" pretty flippantly. I haven't seen Zack's contract so I have no clue if he actually got final cut privileges, although given the history of the last two movies and the way this has progressed I kind of assumed that was part of the negotiations. Still, it's weird to argue from some position of ideological purity. Like clearly Zack Snyder is using an existing IP that's owned by a major corporation, of course there were decisions made probably long before he was even hired. The idea that he doesn't have at least the most freedom and artistic control as anyone who has ever made one of these movies with this cut is downright silly to me. And nobody is claiming that he needs to have this in order to properly call it "his" cut (at least, nobody in here, I'm sure you can find people on Twitter who believe any range of things)
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Mar 9, 2021 20:32
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It's a waste of time, because everyone understands what is meant when you say that the theatrical cut was /not/ "Zack Snyder's vision" and the HBO MAX cut /is/ "Zack Snyder's vision". It's like the conversations over whether there was "really" a 214-minute cut given that that's not what's being released; these aren't questions being raised in good faith, they're just weird semantic cul-de-sacs to get run down.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:37
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Guy A. Person posted:
On top of this, the films are about ‘impurity’ and the difficulties of working working a system that’s all-encompassing - like the reveal that Lex has already trademarked the Wonder Woman logo, or the basic concept of Sucker Punch. Going back to the Donner film(s), my beef is that the conflict is mainly presented in aesthetic terms: Luthor’s ‘tackiness’ versus Superman’s ‘timeless Americana’ or whatever. The intro implies that it’s all a metaphor for the 70s energy crisis or something, but that’s pretty tenuous.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:59
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How many superhero franchise movies even get the treatment BvS got, with an "ultimate edition" home video release which even says right in the title sequence that it's the Ultimate Edition ie the Actual Version of the movie? Nothing is 100% anyone's true vision in the movie biz, but Snyder has clearly been given a decent amount of leeway before, so it's not hard to believe he'd get it again, especially with an army of toxic fans ready to deploy brutal hashtags if he isn't happy
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Mar 9, 2021 21:05
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Suicide Squad notably got an "Extended Cut" that wasn't part of anyone's 'vision.'
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Mar 9, 2021 21:08
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Disappointed that Snyder is not the true heir to Bertolt Brecht and Augosto Boal's legacy of the theatre of the oppressed as I had previously assumed.
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Mar 9, 2021 21:10
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Someone deepfake Zack Snyder over Paul Bettany and call it Zack Snyder's Vision
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Mar 9, 2021 21:16
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A discussion about an artists "original" vision is an interesting one to have, but somehow I don't feel like that's what our boy Eugene actually wants. If he does want to post again about how ZSJL isn't actually Snyder's vision, I'm wondering what he thinks of The Other Side of the Wind and whether that represents Orson Welles "original" vision. On that one, filming took a number of years but it was complete but then it lingered in rights hell for decades and Welles died in 1985 and then people like Peter Bogdanovich got the raw footage and put the money together to do all the post production stuff and then it got shown at festivals and released on Netflix in 2018. Welles had been dead for more than 30 years by the time of release, but it was all the footage he shot. Bogdanovich claimed Welles had cut some of it together, other bits including the takes Welles had selected but hadn't cut yet and Bogdanovich (who acted in the movie) said he knew what Welles would want for other scenes where Welles hadn't even done that. So is it Welles original vision, or even if not, can people appreciate the film as the closest possible version of that, considering all the weird circumstances? The version of JL that hits streaming in just over a week might not be 100% Snyder's original vision or what the theatrical would have been if he didn't leave the movie, but it's probably the closest thing we will get to it.
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Mar 9, 2021 21:39
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Yeah, Zack Snyder's Justice League is just "what if, instead of leaving the film, WB gave him hands-off post production money and allowed him to make it four hours long?" Obviously it doesn't get rid of any of the changes or compromises he made before or during his production of JL. Anyone with an actual brain knows that's what people mean.
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Mar 9, 2021 21:46
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pospysyl posted:Disappointed that Snyder is not the true heir to Bertolt Brecht and Augosto Boal's legacy of the theatre of the oppressed as I had previously assumed. Exquisite
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Mar 9, 2021 21:47
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I rewatched Man of Steel last night and had forgotten that the film's literal final frame is Superman smiling. Of course, it's Superman in his guise as Clark Kent, who we all know is nothing but the alien's cruel and knowing mockery of us bumbling mortals.
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Mar 9, 2021 23:11
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Snyder's Superman actually scalped the real Clark kent to cover his hairline.
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Mar 9, 2021 23:18
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Puhleeze get woke!!?
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Mar 9, 2021 23:37
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Ferrinus posted:I rewatched Man of Steel last night and had forgotten that the film's literal final frame is Superman smiling. "Welcome to The Planet" is such a good line.
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Mar 9, 2021 23:44
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:it's still not 'his version', it's a version that was put together in light of the whedon theatrical release and for a totally different audience than a theatrical release. even if there had been no director switch, the theatrical version would not have been 4 hours and black-and-white and featuring Jesus Joker and nVidia Steppenwolf. the only way to make back $70 million plus marketing costs on a DVD special edition of a crummy special effects movie is to pander to its most hardcore fans. that's why you get the $100 snyder cut-themed lunchables, trailers that play up the winks and references, and a running time 16 minutes longer than Lawrence of Arabia. it's not aimed at the demographic outside the snyderdome thread and it's nothing like snyder's original vision. please get woke to the pernicious influence of money on art we need a shazam.jpg meme for this >it doesn't exist >it's not finished >it's never coming out >it'll be exactly the same >it cost $70 million dollars >it's not his original vision you are here >no one watched it >no one likes it Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 01:35
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Guy A. Person posted:Tbf to Eugene (although after that discord post...why would I even want to be) I did use the term "final cut" pretty flippantly. I haven't seen Zack's contract so I have no clue if he actually got final cut privileges, although given the history of the last two movies and the way this has progressed I kind of assumed that was part of the negotiations. Didn’t Snyder say he did all the work on this cut for $0 in order to guarantee no interference on it? I think you hit pretty close to home with your phrasing
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Mar 10, 2021 03:19
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Yeah Snyder said neither he nor his wife took any salary and they aren’t getting residuals or anything. However, everyone else who worked on it is being paid what they would normally make. The fact that Snyder had Bruce and Lois having a kid but WB nixed that idea early on shows you it’s not a “pure vision”. Ideas change over the course of production. All Snyder said is that this movie is the vision he had in 2016 when he started filming the current iteration of JL. Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 03:33
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AdmiralViscen posted:Didn’t Snyder say he did all the work on this cut for $0 in order to guarantee no interference on it? I think you hit pretty close to home with your phrasing Very true, it reminds me of the deal Lynch made with De Laurentiis post-Dune where he got paid a lot less but he didn't care because he preferred having final cut.
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Mar 10, 2021 03:54
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AdmiralViscen posted:Didn’t Snyder say he did all the work on this cut for $0 in order to guarantee no interference on it? I think you hit pretty close to home with your phrasing He said in the Variety interview that he didn't get paid for ZSJL because he already got paid for theatrical cut. ZSJL wasn't about the money for him.
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Mar 10, 2021 03:56
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Eugene's Zod role-playing getting a little to on the nose tbh "Heresy!" he screams at the Council of WB.
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Mar 10, 2021 04:01
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Idly poking through an older thread, I stumbled on an iteration of the Snyder Rape Zombie Controversy from two years ago. I guess it just bubbles up every now and then
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Mar 10, 2021 04:34
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Horizon Burning posted:we need a shazam.jpg meme for this >people are only pretending to like it is probably the actual next step.
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Mar 10, 2021 05:17
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Starting March 18, the next step will be "it's okay to enjoy the movie, but you have to admit it's awful and anybody not specifically tuned in and prepped in a cult-like manner for Snyder's aesthetic/messages could only have an allergic reaction to it."
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Mar 10, 2021 05:24
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I remember a lot of "you have to convince yourself you like it because of sunk cost" posting when the Lost finale aired, so I expect something similar here
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Mar 10, 2021 05:26
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A common one that I’m seeing a lot is “it’ll get a lot of views from people singing up to HBO max to hate watch it”
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Mar 10, 2021 05:27
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Is the Snyder Cut Oscar eligible?
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Mar 10, 2021 05:29
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I'm enjoying the people who say 'I'll give it a fair go' as if a film that they've already decided is an existential paradox that both exists and doesn't is going to get a fair view.
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Mar 10, 2021 05:30
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Ghost Leviathan posted:>people are only pretending to like it I've seen that nonsense pop up on twitter a couple of times. I'm pretty sure Renegade Cut made four 1-hour epics about DCEU where that was he basic point too. Unfortunately that's just part of the discourse now, folks being smug and condescending about hating something and because they don't like it means it's obviously bad, obviously! Looking forward to it, personally. I can safely say that because I liked Snyder's previous two films that I'm going to like this one.
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Mar 10, 2021 05:35
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I don't think I've been this excited for a movie to come out since The Dark Knight.
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Mar 10, 2021 05:56
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I'm pretty confident it'll have some good poo poo based on the trailers- I love the bit in the first trailer where Silas Stone dies trying to do something Snyder called "marking the motherbox" and it's a bit of a tearjerker because he's (I think?) giving his life up to help save the world with his son forced to watch right there in the room, and also it calls back to Superman's dad dying with Cyborg going NOOOO- could Cyborg have saved his dad but held back because he knew it was for the greater good? Also the way Silas dies calls back to Osterman dying in Watchmen, and that trailer from today shows Cyborg in some virtual reality/dream sequence with his family- did his dad not quite die, the way Osterman didn't? Did his mind get uploaded into the motherbox, will he return from beyond death to save his son from being trapped in the Matrix? No idea, but just that 5 seconds of footage really fires my imagination. Not to mention the cheekiness of casting Joe Morton as the father of a cyborg
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Mar 10, 2021 05:57
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Space Fish posted:Starting March 18, the next step will be "it's okay to enjoy the movie, but you have to admit it's awful and anybody not specifically tuned in and prepped in a cult-like manner for Snyder's aesthetic/messages could only have an allergic reaction to it."
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Mar 10, 2021 06:14
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there's something sad about how the people who are the most likely to scream 'let people enjoy things' in the face of mild criticism are also the ones who are really invested in bringing down people who want to see the snydercut
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Mar 10, 2021 06:31
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:the Enabling Act that began the thousand-year reich of the Cinematic Universe
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Mar 10, 2021 06:31
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Mr. Apollo posted:The fact that Snyder had Bruce and Lois having a kid but WB nixed that idea early on shows you it’s not a “pure vision”. Ideas change over the course of production. All Snyder said is that this movie is the vision he had in 2016 when he started filming the current iteration of JL. This reminds me, I like the original idea Snyder had a long-rear end time ago of Bruce and Lois getting together. Someone mentioned in the other thread when we were talking about it, but Snyder being an adoptive father really brings a lot to Superman ending up raising Batman's kid. But there's also the King Arthur stuff (Batman as Lancelot) and rewatching MoS made me realize how nice a button it would be for Superman to end up adopting someone else's kid.
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Mar 10, 2021 07:02
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In a vacuum I'd say sure, go for it, but as a character throughline from BvS, I don't really like it. The end of BvS has Lois accepting Clark's engagement ring and I don't think even Batman can seal the deal that fast. If Kal El rejects Clark after rebirth, and a number of years pass between JL1 and JL2, then, maybe. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 07:51
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Martman posted:I definitely expect "It's Okay to Admit Zack Snyder's Justice League is Still Bad" - posted 3 seconds after it releases Getting 'It's Okay To Be White' vibes. In general the attitude towards Snyder is just wild insecurity and projection all the way down, it seems. Fake geek boys.
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Mar 10, 2021 07:55
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I posted this the day the SnyderCut was announced: It's the sort of thing where it's measured in sign-ups and recurring purchases and also however much money they were given to put their stuff up there in the first place, so I'd think it's been a financial success for a while
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Mar 10, 2021 16:58
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