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Pick posted:Yeah, let's be clear, this is partially frustrating because there's a really really coherent first draft of a much better film in there. I feel like Frozen 2 had the same problem actually, I don't know if there's just too many chefs in the kitchen or what but you can tell there's a good story in there somewhere if only they had spent the time to polish it a little.
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Mar 11, 2021 00:24
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I liked Raya, certainly liked it more than Frozen 2. I didn't really have any issues with the story that everyone here had outside of thinking the baby was a weird choice. Frozen 2 though, that is a movie where half of it is potentially really good and could've been great. If they had just had it be a fantasy adventure movie with Else and Anna (and Olaf, I think Olaf is fine, and he has to be there, I get it) going on this adventure into an unknown fantasy world together, I think the movie would've been awesome. What really bogged the movie down was basically everything to do with Kristoff. His song, while a GOOD SONG, completely stopped the movie dead (like the song he was related to in the first one, another song that I thought was a good song but it stopped the movie dead). And I just despised the entire plot of oh he's gonna try to propose UH OH HIJINX HAPPENED and now he can't do it! I did not care about their engagement at the end, or any part of his story. Frozen 2 would've been better off without Kristoff at all.
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Mar 11, 2021 00:35
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Elman posted:I feel like Frozen 2 had the same problem actually, I don't know if there's just too many chefs in the kitchen or what but you can tell there's a good story in there somewhere if only they had [bspent the time to polish it a little.[/b] I almost feel like the issue is the complete converse of that. They had something that was actually pretty good, and then they started loving with it. It's like how a lot of the really compelling movies are partially compelling because they have this authentic flavor from not having been overworked. They don't have the same kind of time to doubt themselves.
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Mar 11, 2021 00:41
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Macaluso posted:Frozen 2 though, that is a movie where half of it is potentially really good and could've been great. If they had just had it be a fantasy adventure movie with Else and Anna (and Olaf, I think Olaf is fine, and he has to be there, I get it) going on this adventure into an unknown fantasy world together, I think the movie would've been awesome. What really bogged the movie down was basically everything to do with Kristoff. His song, while a GOOD SONG, completely stopped the movie dead (like the song he was related to in the first one, another song that I thought was a good song but it stopped the movie dead). And I just despised the entire plot of oh he's gonna try to propose UH OH HIJINX HAPPENED and now he can't do it! I did not care about their engagement at the end, or any part of his story. Frozen 2 would've been better off without Kristoff at all. 
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Mar 11, 2021 01:27
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Underbaked or overcooked, we’ll never know, but it tasted bad*. *I haven’t seen the movie yet. Maybe I’ll really like it when it’s free on Disney+ in June.
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Mar 11, 2021 01:58
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Frozen 2 seemed to have the issue that certain scenes were animated and locked in early then as the story shifted things got anchored into having to still have that already animated and voiced scene. Like in the making of stuff there seems to be a trillion examples of them being all proud about a scene getting cut then feeling all clever because they chopped all the parts of the scene and faked them into another context. Like the sky crystals being originally a weird ice wet dream thing she had in a cut song and them reusing the animation in a totally entirely different context
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Mar 11, 2021 02:14
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Even the water horse at the shore that they used in the trailer was clearly something they had to work around continuing to include in the film
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Mar 11, 2021 02:15
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Pick posted:Even the water horse at the shore that they used in the trailer was clearly something they had to work around continuing to include in the film Man that was a great trailer. The movie was okay, but the trailer was fantastic.
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Mar 11, 2021 02:22
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It’s been said before but if you haven’t, watch the making of frozen 2 thing on Disney+. Obviously we’ll never get anything as honest as The Sweatbox ever again, but the documentary definitely shows a production that really doesn’t know quite where it’s going. Like, I don’t recall the exact timing, but the identity of who was singing to Elsa - and thus, the entire inciting mystery of the movie - was not nailed down until fairly late in the game.
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Mar 11, 2021 02:27
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Oh my God, I absolutely have to see that. Wtf??
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Mar 11, 2021 02:38
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What are the themes in frozen? Is any of the imagery symbolic?
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Mar 11, 2021 02:51
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Pick posted:Even the water horse at the shore that they used in the trailer was clearly something they had to work around continuing to include in the film Yeah, raya feels like a movie that got chopped up in the writing room where a stronger story got watered down along the way. The making of frozen 2 stuff makes it seem like frozen 2 was largely animated and voiced then someone demanded a major rewrite of the basic story and someone had to go into imovie and literally chop the original movie into a jigsaw puzzle and pull scenes and dialog and even tiny effect and reaction shots and try to youtube poop millions of dollars of footage into a totally different movie.
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Mar 11, 2021 02:57
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FunkyAl posted:What are the themes in frozen? Is any of the imagery symbolic? The main symbolism is in Olaf, whose annoying manner is symbolic of people who look at a cash grab sequel to a children’s entertainment and demand to know what its themes and symbolism are It’s like, a battle between machines and horses... it’s like... technology, versus horse
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Mar 11, 2021 03:00
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I’m watching Spirit Stalion of the Cimaron and boy it’d be helpful if these horses talked and explained their emotions instead of charadesing everything, but then I feel the same way about horses irl too
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Mar 11, 2021 03:05
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FunkyAl posted:What are the themes in frozen? Is any of the imagery symbolic? There was a pretty solid message about indigenous reconciliation and how you really need to examine your history with a critical eye because chances are, there's someone that was crushed under its wheels in the past. "Some Things Never Change" pins that down really well actually, with them talking about "an old stone wall that'll never fall" while you're watching a wall crumble on-screen. It's muddled with a ton of garbage like everything to do with Kristoff but I appreciated the overall idea they seemed to be driving at, and how it ultimately resolves.
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Mar 11, 2021 03:13
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Kristoff's screentime is not nearly as bad or distracting as whatever the hell was going on with the four spirits thing.
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Mar 11, 2021 03:45
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Man that was a great trailer. The movie was okay, but the trailer was fantastic. I remember the first Frozen 2 trailer hinting at some big fantasy epic unfolding, with some stunning visuals. The film that eventually came out definitely wasn’t in that trailer.
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Mar 11, 2021 04:03
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I imagine suit meddling is usually to blame here. Like them pointing at random scenes and going 'I like that, it'll increase out metrics by 20%, make sure that's in the movie' and other arbitrary nonsense like scene where Elsa has to fight a giant spider or whatever with no regard of how it fits into the finished product, also we can't have anything that a 60 year old suit thinks might make a child scared or sad or confused so you gotta cut pivotal scenes and replace them with clumsy exposition. See also the latest en vogue thing for cutting all the exposition that provides context, and then over-explaining the obvious to try to make up for how your audience is confused, and then key context that completely changes the tone of a scene is casually tweeted out a week after release.
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Mar 11, 2021 04:04
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mycot posted:Kristoff's screentime is not nearly as bad or distracting as whatever the hell was going on with the four spirits thing. This entire video is pretty keen on some important points, but a good one is indeed wtf is going on with the four spirits? (That part's right at the beginning so you can just start there.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwN3Myxrpvw The ones that destroy Rivendell or whatever at the beginning aren't the trapped ones, right? so how? wha? and why was the voice calling her just a blu-ray menu screen? Pick fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Mar 11, 2021 |
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Mar 11, 2021 04:15
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I imagine suit meddling is usually to blame here. Like them pointing at random scenes and going 'I like that, it'll increase out metrics by 20%, make sure that's in the movie' and other arbitrary nonsense like scene where Elsa has to fight a giant spider or whatever with no regard of how it fits into the finished product, also we can't have anything that a 60 year old suit thinks might make a child scared or sad or confused so you gotta cut pivotal scenes and replace them with clumsy exposition. The "give Elsa a horse" directive definitely feels like this. Why would you pick a horse of all things to represent water or ice or whatever? (Yes I know about the Scottish water horse myth or whatever but I don't think it's a literal horse)
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Mar 11, 2021 04:19
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I liked Olaf's subplot/arc being that because he's getting older he is getting more introspective, but isn't mature enough to fully grasp it. He's wrestling with more complex ideas and emotions but he doesn't know how to express them effectively, or who to express them to. I like when Elsa pushes him and Anna away in the ice boat, and Olaf actually gets angry with her for the first time in his life.
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Mar 11, 2021 05:19
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Hedrigall posted:I’m watching Spirit Stalion of the Cimaron and boy it’d be helpful if these horses talked and explained their emotions instead of charadesing everything, but then I feel the same way about horses irl too ah, so you're the reason they added a narrator at the last second, completely ruining the movie
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Mar 11, 2021 05:48
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The original narration where they had Matt Damon make neighing sounds for 84 minutes was a bit grating
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Mar 11, 2021 05:57
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Boxman posted:Like, I don’t recall the exact timing, but the identity of who was singing to Elsa - and thus, the entire inciting mystery of the movie - was not nailed down until fairly late in the game. For me the core sin of this movie is writing "Show Yourself" early on but seemingly not knowing what it actually means. When you ultimately find out that the voice calling out to Elsa is her mom (but also maybe nature and the unifying force behind all magic) that's not very satisfying. Into the Unknown sets everything up like there is a real external "you" at the end of the journey: "are you here to distract me", "are you someone out there who's a little bit like me". To end with "but the power was inside me all along" is just a retread of "Let it Go". Ghost Leviathan posted:I imagine suit meddling is usually to blame here. Maybe the version that didn't get any of those tweaks might be better for some people, but I think the big flaws at the core of the story came in pretty early on and I'm not sure "suits" had anything to do with it.
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Mar 11, 2021 07:19
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There is a truth to fairy stories that makes them powerful, lessons and life mysteries that are present even in the heavily watered down disney tellings in the nineties. Real Arabain nights/history is full of wicked visers named jafar, so too is the disney one. Little mermaid and beauty and the beast have themes so basic to communicate you almost communicate it when you say "beauty and the beast." The villian is a hunter. Who is the real beast? Basic and potent to kids, adults get it, and they like the violence, works for hundereds of years. Olaf the snowman is frosty with the moral removed. He's a dumber lie than santa. Frozen is also not much like the snow queen, perhaps because snow queen is more than a little like chronicles of narnia. reverse that. Anyway both CS Lewis and Hans Christen Anderson were like filthy cavemen by today's standards. HCA didn't have underwear, wore rags and wrote because his mouth was mush and he had three teeth. Lewis would flunk out of a stem middle school for not building a baking soda rocket correctly. Yet, all the kings horse and all the kings men, and disney and google, cannot tell a better story than them. They have millions of dollars and complicated information on all the nerve endings of the human brain. Anderson couldn't write until he ws fifty, and couldn't read his stories until the day before he died. Lewis, if you are in hell, consider this a "screwtape letter" that features a joke to liven your experience of living in hell and being alerted every time some shmuk mentions you. I hope hell is not to bad, I have never read the screwtape letters.
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Mar 11, 2021 07:22
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The Brothers Grimm didn't have eyeballs. They had to invent braille.
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Mar 11, 2021 07:25
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Well the WandaVision creator admitted they changed the ending because social media guessed some twists so maybe the solution is stories were better before fans could talk to creators or simply before twitter.
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Mar 11, 2021 07:31
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Data Graham posted:Yeah it's a pretty good summary/postmortem. https://twitter.com/IrisHeartfang/status/1228960635196755968 There's issues I take with Jenny's video, such as I feel that it tries to paint too clean of a picture of the fandom for a nice narrative. For one thing, the LGBT fanbase was there from the beginning, so it feels a little insulting that people like me get lumped in with 4channers, and it wasn't until gay furries arrived that things got better. And, I know it's not the focus of the video at all, but I can't help but feel annoyed how she portrayed the the show post season 2 based on one episode. That's very minor though.
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Mar 11, 2021 07:32
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Pick posted:Well the WandaVision creator admitted they changed the ending because social media guessed some twists so maybe the solution is stories were better before fans could talk to creators or simply before twitter. Wait, loving really
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Mar 11, 2021 07:47
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THat's kind of cowardly. Steven Universe simply allowed people to guess it's twists and they were still satisfying, so changing the ending of your story just so you can say "Nuh uh!" is a pathetic move.
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Mar 11, 2021 10:59
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That seems like bullshit, they shot wandavision like over a year ago, they weren’t shooting it week to week as it aired lol
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Mar 11, 2021 11:44
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Roth posted:https://twitter.com/IrisHeartfang/status/1228960635196755968 You got to admit though, the arrival of gay furries improves everything 
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Mar 11, 2021 11:45
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Pick posted:Well the WandaVision creator admitted they changed the ending because social media guessed some twists so maybe the solution is stories were better before fans could talk to creators or simply before twitter. He’s said no such thing.
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Mar 11, 2021 12:31
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Welp, guess I should have thought before believing something written by some goober on the internet :V
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Mar 11, 2021 12:41
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Hedrigall posted:That seems like bullshit, they shot wandavision like over a year ago Maybe the internet is just that good at guessing
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Mar 11, 2021 13:20
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The only thing they've admitted to changing in the finale was they took out a scene they shot but felt didn't fit. And that was taken out a while back because they never even finished the CGI on it.
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Mar 11, 2021 13:28
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"Creators overreact to people guessing twists on the internet" has happened before, but it's usually a season-to-season thing (like in Westworld IIRC)
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Mar 11, 2021 13:37
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The_Doctor posted:He’s said no such thing. She, but yeah.
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Mar 11, 2021 14:18
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Roth posted:And, I know it's not the focus of the video at all, but I can't help but feel annoyed how she portrayed the the show post season 2 based on one episode. That's very minor though. Yeah I mean I know this is a trap but, she's definitely not covering the show itself (that would be a totally different, much longer video series). My fascination with the production was always centered around Faust's departure and what her original ideas for worldbuilding entailed, and where the story was supposed to go, before they forced her to sign off on Equestria Girls and she told them to suck her dick. The whole rest of the show was the rest of the writers doing flailing archaeology on her and Rudish's development notes, and it slowly but inevitably lost the irresistible cohesion and sense of epic mystery and magic it had started out with. It remained very good and very funny, but it was definitely different. Also it seemed like it kept getting renewed unexpectedly, so over and over again they had to scrape together a new set of second-string writers after the previous season's staff had tied up their storylines with big climactic battles and status-quo-changing season finales, and figure out a new and BIGGER direction to go that somehow wasn't just retreading what they'd already done. Frankly the "fandom shoutout" episode near the end felt like them saying "please please let us stop" like Krusty in his 346th consecutive broadcast hour Data Graham fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Mar 11, 2021 |
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Mar 11, 2021 14:30
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NieR Occomata posted:She, but yeah. Apologies to Jac Schaeffer, for some reason I thought Matt Shakman was the creator. Neither of them have said that, it turns out.
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Mar 11, 2021 14:32
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