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I will see if I can find anything. My instinct is there had to be a credit system, I don't see how you could do the kind of empire-wide business that happened in Rome without it. I don't think merchants were literally carrying talents of silver from Gaul to Egypt all the time.
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Mar 19, 2021 02:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Was there a use of credit in ancient Rome? Not so much a credit card, but informal IOU type stuff and even letters of credit absolutely existed. There’s a funny bit in Ovid’s Art of Love where he talks about how you can’t claim you have no cash for a present on your girlfriend’s birthday, she’ll just make you buy on credit.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:03
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There was for sure business banking, there are interest rate laws all the way back to the Twelve Tables.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:09
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Plebs isn't perfect, I remember they use the "gladiator contests were to the death" trope eventually. Would the credit system also be tied to the patronage system? I feel like the high level players are constantly loaning each other money.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:12
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CoolCab posted:Plebs isn't perfect, I remember they use the "gladiator contests were to the death" trope eventually. Would the credit system also be tied to the patronage system? I feel like the high level players are constantly loaning each other money. Yeah their basic rule seems to be "accurate unless something else would be funnier" which is fine but means they're accurate in weird places you don't expect because *someone* is clearly doing research and choosing to veer off of it consciously.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:17
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All the basic instruments of economics are way older than people realize. Check out hammurabi's code for instance. 100] . . . interest for the money, as much as he has received, he shall give a note therefor, and on the day, when they settle, pay to the merchant. [101] If there are no mercantile arrangements in the place whither he went, he shall leave the entire amount of money which he received with the broker to give to the merchant. [102] If a merchant entrust money to an agent (broker) for some investment, and the broker suffer a loss in the place to which he goes, he shall make good the capital to the merchant. [103] If, while on the journey, an enemy take away from him anything that he had, the broker shall swear by God and be free of obligation. [104] If a merchant give an agent corn, wool, oil, or any other goods to transport, the agent shall give a receipt for the amount, and compensate the merchant therefor. Then he shall obtain a receipt form the merchant for the money that he gives the merchant. [105] If the agent is careless, and does not take a receipt for the money which he gave the merchant, he can not consider the unreceipted money as his own. [106] If the agent accept money from the merchant, but have a quarrel with the merchant (denying the receipt), then shall the merchant swear before God and witnesses that he has given this money to the agent, and the agent shall pay him three times the sum. [107] If the merchant cheat the agent, in that as the latter has returned to him all that had been given him, but the merchant denies the receipt of what had been returned to him, then shall this agent convict the merchant before God and the judges, and if he still deny receiving what the agent had given him shall pay six times the sum to the agent.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:19
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Philogelos has a joke (#80) that goes like this (with some license) A dimwitted heir is travelling by sea. One night, a terrible storm comes up, and the other passengers start throwing their luggage overboard to stay afloat. They look to him, and he says, "Fine, I'll help." He pulls out his bank draft for 150k, and throws it overboard. "See? I lightened this ship more than all of you combined!"
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Mar 19, 2021 03:32
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:So what sort of armour could you expect to be worn by the various non-Romans involved in the Third Mithridatic War? Thinking especially about Greeks, Thracians, Galatians, Armenians. Similar stuff from what they wore earlier in the Hellenistic period. The linothorax, a hardened linen breastplate, was ubiquitous and mail would have been popular with the galatians and wealthier Pontic/Greek/Thracian troops. A lot of soldiers would have gone out without much more than a helmet, though: I don't think any of the anatolian states had professional militaries on the scale of the Marian legions, but everyone was still using mercenaries. Edit: scale had also come into fashion, especially with cavalry. Most cataphracts used scale armor and I'm pretty sure Pontus had some. FishFood fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 06:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Was there a use of credit in ancient Rome? I thought the thumbs up/down thing was unknown as to which meant which. The following link mostly deals with credit in Egypt and Mesopotamia at an earlier time but does touch briefly on classical Greece and Rome. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/04/michael-hudson-origins-money-interest-palatial-credit-not-barter.html
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Mar 19, 2021 06:48
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Debt: The First 5000 Year's thesis is that loose bonds of credit and obligation within communities pre-date the formation of barter and currency and coinage. It's a natural intuitive understanding by humans. So yes, an Innkeeper in the Bible allowing a fellow member of their community to accumulate a tab is a completely natural and intuitive agreement between the two. More advance, formalized systems of debt and credit really only arise once states start being formed, when men with monopolies of power can enforce those debts. Of course, their judgements are very very good for the wealthiest members of that society.
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Mar 19, 2021 08:14
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Credit is a trust in a future transaction and in a way even a hand-to-hand barter contains that type of trust. If you want to trade a mammoth T-bone for a flint knife, someone usually has to let go first. It turns into what we recognise as credit once the time between each hand letting go becomes longer.
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Mar 19, 2021 09:07
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and the smallest coins had so much value that tabs were essential. there wasn't a coin you could use to pay just one pint. i guess you could have carried a sack of grain around, and barter
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Mar 19, 2021 13:32
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FishFood posted:Similar stuff from what they wore earlier in the Hellenistic period. The linothorax, a hardened linen breastplate, was ubiquitous and mail would have been popular with the galatians and wealthier Pontic/Greek/Thracian troops. A lot of soldiers would have gone out without much more than a helmet, though: I don't think any of the anatolian states had professional militaries on the scale of the Marian legions, but everyone was still using mercenaries. Are the iron breastplates, like the one in Philip II's tomb still kicking around? I can't remember if that was meant to be an example of phalangite armour or something like a linothorax reproduced in iron. What about the little baby breastplates the hastati had? Anybody else use those? Also, are there any good resources for reading about urban life in the late republic outside of Rome? Somewhere like idk Philippi or Massilia or Syracuse?
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Mar 19, 2021 13:37
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ChubbyChecker posted:and the smallest coins had so much value that tabs were essential. there wasn't a coin you could use to pay just one pint. i guess you could have carried a sack of grain around, and barter I believe the custom of the time was an onion
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Mar 19, 2021 13:52
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Not a white onion either, one of those big yellow ones. On account of the war
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Mar 19, 2021 16:12
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Also, are there any good resources for reading about urban life in the late republic outside of Rome? Somewhere like idk Philippi or Massilia or Syracuse? yeah I'd like ancient urban history recs too
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Mar 19, 2021 16:22
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PittTheElder posted:Not a white onion either, one of those big yellow ones. On account of the war Can you expand a bit on this? Where one more difficult to acquire than the other or something?
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Mar 19, 2021 17:58
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Nah, it was just the style at the time to wear one on your belt. And nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter, you'd say.
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Mar 19, 2021 18:05
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Dalael posted:Can you expand a bit on this? Where one more difficult to acquire than the other or something? The story begins in 6-dickity-2 BC. They had to say dickity because Ashurbanipal had stolen their word for fifty
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Mar 19, 2021 18:33
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500 years from now some PhD student is going to try and get a dissertation out of this thread and I wish I could be there to see it. I wonder which shitposting will be correctly recognized and which will woosh over the head of that future historian.
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Mar 19, 2021 18:35
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Shamashshumukin chased that rascal to get it back, but he cramped up after just dickity-six kus.
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Mar 19, 2021 18:40
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What did the black sea greeks do for a living?
Lawman 0 fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 18:49
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PittTheElder posted:Not a white onion either, one of those big yellow ones. On account of the war It is said that throughout the history of Rome he white onions were only used once.
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Mar 19, 2021 18:49
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Sarern posted:500 years from now some PhD student is going to try and get a dissertation out of this thread and I wish I could be there to see it. I wonder which shitposting will be correctly recognized and which will woosh over the head of that future historian. I worry about the number of sarcastic statements that may have been faithfully recorded as real History.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:07
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Chamale posted:I worry about the number of sarcastic statements that may have been faithfully recorded as real History. I mean, for a long time The Prince was taken at face value.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:39
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Alhazred posted:I mean, for a long time The Prince was taken at face value. I mean you can even find people who take it seriously today!
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Mar 19, 2021 19:48
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Are the iron breastplates, like the one in Philip II's tomb still kicking around? I can't remember if that was meant to be an example of phalangite armour or something like a linothorax reproduced in iron. What about the little baby breastplates the hastati had? Anybody else use those? The little baby breastplates are pretty strictly Italian, Italian arms and armor were their own little ecosystem for a while. The iron breastplate I wasn't familiar with before, but its form is nearly identical to a linothorax. I'm not sure if the consensus is that it was a relatively unique piece or if other armor like that would have been used. At a glance, this online article seems to be well sourced and has more information about greek armor of the period.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:57
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Chamale posted:I worry about the number of sarcastic statements that may have been faithfully recorded as real History. Hundreds of years from now there will be debates about whether the year 2020 really happened.
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Mar 19, 2021 20:32
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And i'm sorry, that onion thing was just good enough i thought it might have been a thing.
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Mar 19, 2021 20:35
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Chamale posted:I worry about the number of sarcastic statements that may have been faithfully recorded as real History. Probably not very common. A whole lot of societies even today don't really do sarcasm. It's kind of a weird thing!
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Mar 19, 2021 20:51
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paragon1 posted:Probably not very common. A whole lot of societies even today don't really do sarcasm. It's kind of a weird thing! ...is this sarcasm?
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Mar 19, 2021 20:54
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paragon1 posted:Probably not very common. A whole lot of societies even today don't really do sarcasm. It's kind of a weird thing! It's so weird, particularly when we do it so well.
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Mar 19, 2021 21:01
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paragon1 posted:Probably not very common. A whole lot of societies even today don't really do sarcasm. It's kind of a weird thing!
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Mar 19, 2021 21:09
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FishFood posted:The little baby breastplates are pretty strictly Italian, Italian arms and armor were their own little ecosystem for a while. The iron breastplate I wasn't familiar with before, but its form is nearly identical to a linothorax. I'm not sure if the consensus is that it was a relatively unique piece or if other armor like that would have been used. At a glance, this online article seems to be well sourced and has more information about greek armor of the period. Thanks! I gotta hunt down some of the artwork mentioned in the article. When I was studying classics uh over a decade ago I went to Vergina and saw the cuirass and tomb and of course took an illicit picture without the guards noticing. Philip was the coolest dude in the classical world.
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Mar 19, 2021 23:08
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Did velites have to buy their own wolf hat?
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Mar 19, 2021 23:24
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Lawman 0 posted:What did the black sea greeks do for a living? A lot of them sold grain to Athens. Most of Athens's food supply in the 5th through 3rd centuries BC was imported from the Black Sea region.
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Mar 20, 2021 01:02
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Nessus posted:We have done the lead poisoning thing about Rome, but have we considered irony poisoning? Irony poisoning is a real thing tho.
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Mar 20, 2021 01:38
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Also, are there any good resources for reading about urban life in the late republic outside of Rome? Somewhere like idk Philippi or Massilia or Syracuse? There is an excellent book about Ptolemaic and Roman Alexandria called Alexandria Rediscovered. Its a British Museum publication with lots of big pictures, so it is a little bit pricey, but a lot of the images are pretty spectacular. It's not particularly focused on the Late Republican era, but it certainly discusses that time period. I poked around a bit more for anything else that could more directly answer your question, but there doesn't seem to much in English about that subject. Finding stuff on cities outside of Rome and its vicinity, Egypt, and maybe Jerusalem/Judea from that time period will be difficult, since there is a major lack of written sources coming out of other places in the Roman world in the late republic. There is probably some archaeological stuff out there about this topic, but a lot of that will not be in English.
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Mar 20, 2021 01:40
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FishFood posted:The little baby breastplates are pretty strictly Italian, Italian arms and armor were their own little ecosystem for a while. The iron breastplate I wasn't familiar with before, but its form is nearly identical to a linothorax. I'm not sure if the consensus is that it was a relatively unique piece or if other armor like that would have been used. At a glance, this online article seems to be well sourced and has more information about greek armor of the period. What stood out to me in this article was the claim that iron armour would provide more protection than bronze. We've talked about differences in bronze and iron weapons, but does anybody have any knowledge to impart regarding armour? My only guess is the iron armour being thicker may be the deciding factor.
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Mar 20, 2021 01:53
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Weka posted:What stood out to me in this article was the claim that iron armour would provide more protection than bronze. We've talked about differences in bronze and iron weapons, but does anybody have any knowledge to impart regarding armour? My only guess is the iron armour being thicker may be the deciding factor. Iron is less dense than bronze, so you get the same protection for less weight or more protection for the same weight. It's also more ductile, so it will take a blow and deform whereas bronze will tend to break. Thus you have better protection from repeated blows in battle.
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Mar 20, 2021 02:17
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