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knox_harrington posted:Dude should at least try a Golf if "fun to drive" is anywhere on the radar. we don't really get it in the US anymore and it's relatively expensive. GTI or bust baby.
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Mar 22, 2021 16:18
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Hi car goons, I have a decent idea of what I want (a fuckin' wagon), but since I can't get that I'm instead looking at small SUVs. God have mercy on my soul. Proposed Budget: 25-45k CAD  New or Used: New. I am a big goober and am repair-phobic. Body Style: Small SUV How will you be using the car?: Since COVID most of my travel has been with a canoe on the roof. Something with not-poo poo factory rails and crossbars is a must. I need a hitch for my bike rack, so factory hitch is preferred, but really as long as it doesn't have a dumb exhaust layout that will prevent me from adding one after market, I'm good. both 1.5 and 2inch receivers work for me. What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, cost of ownership, just not having to worry about the loving thing in general, size*, driving dynamics (lol) *Size is my big limiter. I currently have a ford focus hatch and I've got all of my bikes, boats and other fixins laid about the garage without tons of wiggle room either in length or height, and don't want to have to worry about what order my cars are in the driveway. To this end, I would like any car to be under 176in long, and under 64in tall. I currently have the three following models in my sights: Subaru Crosstrek, Mazda CX-30, BMW X1 My concerns with the beamer and Subaru would be cost over ownership and reliability, but otherwise seem pretty up there as to what I'm looking for. I'm kind of gravitating to the CX-30 though, as it's the closest to matching the footprint of my Focus and everyone in AI seems to love Mazda. Curious about the CX-30 though. Does it stand on its own or is "why would you buy the CX-30 when you could get the CX-5" type of situation? Of course. Please also let me know if something is flying under my radar and TIA
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Mar 22, 2021 16:52
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Sure, the VW Golf Sportwagen / Alltrack, which is a wagon, and probably available as closeouts or at least very gently used. However, it's too long for you - you don't actually want a wagon, you want a hatchback. As a result, the Golf exists and is worth considering as well. The CX-30 is pretty ideal from your list. It doesn't sell as well as the CX-5 because they basically cost the same amount of money, only the CX-5 trades some quality/dynamics for size. Most Americans and Canadians gladly take the size. There's also the Mazda3 hatch. The X1 sucks poo poo for the amount of money you pay for it. Just dire late-stage BMW garbage. The Crosstrek is 6" longer than your Focus yet probably not functionally larger in any useful way, since the wheelbase is only different by half an inch. It's also dull. edit: the GTI also comes in within your price range (at least in QC) post tax at 43k. Do that instead. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 17:13
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I don't know what combo of winds/highway speeds you deal with in your area but with a 14' kayak on the roof of my old Crosstrek I had to leave the interstate and take county roads fairly regularly due to headwinds+70mph speed limit + anemic engine. And cannot stress enough how boring of a car it was.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:20
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Yeah I have to admit I don't really want an SUV at all. I could get another hatchback but I'm not particularly happy to add ugly rear end aftermarket crossbars to a brand new car, and wouldn't mind having a bit more cargo space than the focus. I could budge more on length than height. I might have to look more at the sportwagen but it appears I missed the chance to get one new in my area. A lot of these "small SUVs" don't even have proper OEM crossbars and hitches available. What the gently caress is the point of them?
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Mar 22, 2021 17:42
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I was just at the Mazda dealership this past weekend, and test drove a CX-5 turbo to confirm what I've been reading, and it blows away the competition in the segment IMO. I'm likely to pick one up this week, got some pretty good initial offers on the Signature trim. The CX-30 is equally nice and has the same turbo option, though it is significantly smaller in interior/cargo space and loses a couple lux options in top trim. But like was said, it costs almost what a CX-5 does especially actual transaction price not just MSRP. I also wish it had less plastic cladding, it makes an otherwise very premium vehicle look cheaper. The CX-5 is bigger than the CX-30, but not that much bigger, and on American roads it's still small compared to many vehicles. And it's one of the smaller options in the segment. I also went and drove a RAV-4 Hybrid, and while it is 2 inches longer/taller than the CX-5 it feels quite a bit bigger from the driver's seat due to the seating position, visibility, floaty suspension, less precise steering, etc. It does have a bit more cargo room, though. I also looked into installing a hitch on the CX-5 and it is trivially easy, and you can buy a Class III 2" receiver on etrailer.com for under $200 and many reviews saying it takes only an hour to install at home in your driveway with hand tools. Most of the cars sitting on the lot also had the roof rack base bars already installed, would just need the crossbars which have an OEM option for like $200. If the design choices of the CX-30 is the direction Mazda is heading, I'm looking forward to the CX-50 in a couple years with its rumored longitudinal inline 6 and RWD-based architecture. But I can't wait until 2023/24. I've driven the Crosstrek numerous times before, and while it's certainly a fine car for what it is, it is a gutless boring appliance. If they dropped a turbo motor in there and ditched the CVT maybe we can talk, but until then it's very bland and also not very big inside. If you're going to be hauling some real equipment the lack of power is going to be very noticeable even if you aren't an enthusiast. Guinness fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 17:47
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Guinness posted:I was just at the Mazda dealership this past weekend, and test drove a CX-5 turbo to confirm what I've been reading, and it blows away the competition in the segment IMO. I'm likely to pick one up this week, got some pretty good initial offers on the Signature trim. Thanks.. Valuable feedback. Just in build and price for the CX-30 I'm immediately disappointed in how it doesn't really have any "utility" options. The OEM crossbars are a clear after thought and with a capacity of only 100lbs I'd be worried about the stresses a 16ft canoe might put on it in wind / at highway speeds. At some point I'll just need to book test drives and try shoving a few cars into my garage to see what will actually work.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:59
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Math You posted:A lot of these "small SUVs" don't even have proper OEM crossbars and hitches available. What the gently caress is the point of them? They're not really SUV's anymore. I think the current term is CUV /crossover utility vehicle, and BMW calls them SAV/Sport Activity Vehicles. The point of them is the general car buying public likes vehicles that ride higher for a whole bunch of different reasons. The CX30 is basically a Mazda3 in a little different form.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:07
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Math You posted:Thanks.. Valuable feedback. Just in build and price for the CX-30 I'm immediately disappointed in how it doesn't really have any "utility" options. The OEM crossbars are a clear after thought and with a capacity of only 100lbs I'd be worried about the stresses a 16ft canoe might put on it in wind / at highway speeds. 100 lbs does sound absurdly low, but most crossbar setups on cars and CUVs like these are only rated for like 165-185 lbs dynamic load. They're not trucks, or even really SUVs in the traditional sense. They're unibody cars that ride a bit higher. Compact CUVs are just big hatchbacks. FWIW I live in one of the Subaru meccas and see plenty of Crosstreks and similar-class vehicles hauling canoes, kayaks, bikes, etc. on both roof and hitch racks as well as small trailers. Also seen plenty of them with roof-top tents that are so trendy these days. So plenty of people do it, but I can't vouch for how well they do it. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 18:07
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I understand wanting roof rails to come standard, but why do you need factory crossbars also? The cost of some Thule Aeroblades or whatever seems pretty small if it opens up a bunch more car options for you. I admit that I'm not super knowledgeable about crossbars, though, so there may be some aspect I'm missing. I can tell you that the 4Runner's optional oem crossbars have some not-so-great reviews on various forums. It was enough to make us keep our ancient but workable Yakima ones instead. So it's not just small crossovers that have underwhelming factory options. incogneato fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 18:20
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skipdogg posted:The point of them is the general car buying public likes vehicles that ride higher for a whole bunch of different reasons. Yeah I think this is it. I live in the hellhole that is Urban Overcompensating Pickup Truck country, and despite being a committed sedan guy, there's so many people driving huge vehicles that you can't see around, and trucks blinding you with their high and bright headlights that I sort of understand the desire for height. The number one feature I want on my car is a hilariously unsafe reverse headlight/mirror setup so I can blind tailgating pickup drivers right back.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:24
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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incogneato posted:I understand wanting roof rails to come standard, but why do you need factory crossbars also? The cost of some Thule Aeroblades or whatever seems pretty small if it opens up a bunch more car options for you. I admit that I'm not super knowledgeable about crossbars, though, so there may be some aspect I'm missing. Yeah. I mostly just want rails and would research from there, but it seems like a lot of the SUVs have really small ones which may limit compatibility. My thinking is (and perhaps I am wrong) a decent OEM option is an indicator that I won't need to attach anything to the body, or remove the rubber strips from the roof.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:00
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It's the entry/exit height of CUV's that (not only) old people also like wait until you are older and broken ....... or go to a cars and coffee and listen to the cracks and pops as old men contort themselves into a hardtop Corvette   Not everyone is some tiny 23 y/o urban hipster and a lot of "normal" people basically like to "walk" into their vehicle, as pointed out here many times.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:15
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The Mazda factory ones look goofy to me, and it doesn't look like there's much of compatible stuff for the OEM rails. I'd just cross it off since you already know you need rails and it's not some nebulous future maybe thing.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:16
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I don't like the Crosstrek at all, so much else in the segment has more cargo space and drives better. I'm always hesitant to recommend in this thread because I don't want to get into Kia reliability wars, but I bought my Seltos specifically to have something to bring into the mountains with gear and racking bikes, skis, or a kayak, and I love it so far and it's cheap (under 23K OTD for S AWD). It is not an especially high-powered vehicle and has a CVT but it's excellent value. We drove CUVs from Subaru, Toyota, Honda, and Mazda and the CX-5 ended up being the only competition because it's a noticably better drivers with better interior finish - definitely not true for the Crosstrek, RAV4, or CR-V. I also never considered factory crossbars, we tossed Thule Wingbars on it.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:17
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I'm curious - how often, either in terms of years or mileage, do people replace their cars (other than returning one lease for a new lease)? Either out of ongoing repair costs, unreliability, or just "I'd like to get something different"?
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Mar 22, 2021 20:09
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We change our primary family car on average every 3-4 years, mostly because we want something different, or nicer. None of these vehicles had any mechanical issues at all. Since I've been married 2009 Ford Escape > 2012 Explorer XLT > 2014 Explorer Sport > 2017 Explorer Sport > 2020 Expedition Limited. We have leased a few of these, but generally don't complete the lease term. The 2014 we traded in early with equity, the 2017 we bought at the end of the lease and drove for another 16 months or so. The 2020 is a lease, and I'll see around month 30 where we are at financially with it. I have never turned a lease in at the end, I either trade it in early or buy it out at the end. I do not recommend doing this from a BFC perspective, we spend a dumb amount of our disposable/discretionary income on vehicles. I started working from home like 4 or 5 years ago, so I've had the same car for a little over 7 years now. No reason to spend the money on something I drive a few times a month. It's paid off and in perfect mechanical shape, so I have no intention of replacing it in the next few years. Before that though, I had Automotive ADD pretty bad. Changed cars every 3 years or so.
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Mar 22, 2021 20:29
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MJP posted:I'm curious - how often, either in terms of years or mileage, do people replace their cars (other than returning one lease for a new lease)? Either out of ongoing repair costs, unreliability, or just "I'd like to get something different"? This is going to vary so much based on individual circumstances and preferences the answer is almost useless, IMO That said, according to the IIHS the average age of vehicle on the road in the USA is just shy of 12 years, and it has been trending longer as vehicles get more reliable (and more expensive, presumably). https://news.ihsmarkit.com/prviewer...g-to-ihs-markit
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Mar 22, 2021 20:30
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MJP posted:I'm curious - how often, either in terms of years or mileage, do people replace their cars (other than returning one lease for a new lease)? Either out of ongoing repair costs, unreliability, or just "I'd like to get something different"? Averaging about 5 years for the normal car, unknown period of time for the fun car (been three years so far). The normal car turnover is "to get something different/changing life requirements/desires" but as you can see from my dumb bad posting in this thread I should not be considered normal in any way shape or form, and it's absolutely not a good idea to get a new car every five years unless you hate having more money than you otherwise would. edit: now that I think back on it my car progression over the last three new dailies has been small coupe, compact hatchback, compact wagon so I'm sure either bigger wagon or CUV is next
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Mar 22, 2021 20:42
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My first car was a Cavalier that I got rid of after three years, my next car was a GTI that I had for about 12 years and loved driving every day until a crash took it out (I was aiming for at least 15 years and the engine was starting to have issues), my current car I've had for three years and have no real plans on changing it (partially since I have no income at the moment, blah), but we'll see how expensive owning a BMW becomes before I make any promises.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:35
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MJP posted:I'm curious - how often, either in terms of years or mileage, do people replace their cars (other than returning one lease for a new lease)? Either out of ongoing repair costs, unreliability, or just "I'd like to get something different"? The BFC answer is when the wheels fall off. The AI answer is when you run out of driveway space. I’m averaging about a decade.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:55
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PCjr sidecar posted:when you run out of driveway space. So true 
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Mar 22, 2021 22:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:edit: now that I think back on it my car progression over the last three new dailies has been small coupe, compact hatchback, compact wagon so I'm sure either bigger wagon or CUV is next RS6, clearly
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Mar 22, 2021 22:41
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MJP posted:I'm curious - how often, either in terms of years or mileage, do people replace their cars (other than returning one lease for a new lease)? Either out of ongoing repair costs, unreliability, or just "I'd like to get something different"? When the car no longer meets my needs or the repair costs in a year cost more than a years worth of car payments.
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Mar 23, 2021 00:08
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If you haul serious poo poo on the roof of your car like kayaks, canoes and bikes and poo poo you probably don't want anything the factory has to offer, you're better off with a Yakima or Thule setup to begin with.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:37
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Yeah I went down the rabbit hole some and realized I was pretty ill informed on the whole rack thing. Many thanks to the posters who got me back on the right track. Don't think I'll need to seriously look at a car until post COVID when we see if there's a shift in office culture and more work from home. Guess I should use that time to decide if I want a car or an SUV instead of trying to half rear end both.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:22
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knox_harrington posted:RS6, clearly If I go that direction where I spend obscene money on a car it'll be a Taycan CrossTurismo
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Mar 23, 2021 09:42
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For other left field wagons, how about Prius V or that Buick Regal wagon from a few years ago?
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Mar 23, 2021 16:55
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Good lord dealerships are still dogshit in the year 2021. What's the point of an internet sales department if you won't actually sell cars on the internet via email/phone? No, I'm not going to spend hours of my life to come in to "finalize the deal" when you won't even tell me what the deal is. Fortunately at least one dealership in the area gets it. Gave me a detailed quote for exactly what I asked for via email, for a great price, and I'll probably reward them for it later this week. This is an easy sale. I already know what I want. It's on your lot. Just sell it to me for a fair price and I'll come give you money. I dislike Tesla for a lot of reasons, but I love that they will tell you a price and sell you a car without having to play all the games in some podunk stripmall an hour away. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 18:41
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Guinness posted:Good lord dealerships are still dogshit in the year 2021. What's the point of an internet sales department if you won't actually sell cars on the internet via email/phone? No, I'm not going to spend hours of my life to come in to "finalize the deal" when you won't even tell me what the deal is. This was basically our experience buying new via email as well. The vast majority of dealers either responded with attempts to get me to come in and/or negotiate by phone, while many others just didn't respond. One however had a robust internet department, responded quickly, made all terms clear via email, etc. We ended up buying from them even though it was a bit farther away.
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Mar 23, 2021 18:54
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I have this long standing suspicion that people in the industry underestimate exactly how lovely the dealership experience is because they never really have to deal with it. You're either on a guaranteed price plan, or you're on a loaner. You order a car or select from inventory, go in and do the very straightforward paperwork, and you're done. The salespeople don't bullshit you, you don't get hosed around by finance. Then these people get confused as to how companies whose entire business model is "I promise you never have to set foot in a dealership" are so successful, because for them, the dealer experience isn't that bad.
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Mar 23, 2021 19:03
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I told some of the other jokers to go piss up a rope. At this point even if they somehow "get it" and send me an actual quote that is better I'm not going to do business with them just out of spite. Just don't trust the fuckers.
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Mar 23, 2021 19:15
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I have this long standing suspicion that people in the industry underestimate exactly how lovely the dealership experience is because they never really have to deal with it. You're either on a guaranteed price plan, or you're on a loaner. You order a car or select from inventory, go in and do the very straightforward paperwork, and you're done. The salespeople don't bullshit you, you don't get hosed around by finance. Then these people get confused as to how companies whose entire business model is "I promise you never have to set foot in a dealership" are so successful, because for them, the dealer experience isn't that bad. Even if they know, there's often not much they can do about it. Lots of states have massive protections for dealers that don't give manufacturers much choice. Also, until fairly recently the dealer agreements often gave manufacturers a limited oversight and ability to terminate the agreement. My understanding is the reason Lexus dealers tend to be way better is that its a newer network where Toyota wrote better dealership agreements.
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Mar 23, 2021 19:17
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nm posted:Even if they know, there's often not much they can do about it. Lots of states have massive protections for dealers that don't give manufacturers much choice. Also, until fairly recently the dealer agreements often gave manufacturers a limited oversight and ability to terminate the agreement. My understanding is the reason Lexus dealers tend to be way better is that its a newer network where Toyota wrote better dealership agreements. I promise you that while they may "know" on an intellectual level they do not know on a personal, emotional level.
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Mar 23, 2021 19:47
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Emailing dealers trying to buy a car is a complete waste of time for all parties involved.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:04
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My 2006 Tacoma needs to be replaced as it is too small for my family for our weekend/camping excursions. I love my truck and have had it since 2005. It's the most reliable thing I've ever had. The biggest thing I need is a quad-cab/crew-cab. But since I have to replace it to get that, it's worth looking at adding some other capabilities - mainly a reasonable towing capacity. I don't foresee the need for more than 7,500lbs so I don't need a giant 1-ton diesel. I probably can't afford it either. Having an open bed for hauling dirty loads around happens frequently enough that I don't want an SUV or Van or anything like that. But I'll probably get a removable soft-top thing for so I can move things without worrying about rain. Proposed Budget:$30k-$40k New or Used: Used (because new is like $50k) Body Style: 1/2-ton (though I'm not averse to a 3/4-ton or 1-ton if there's a good case) Crew Cab Pickup, 6ft+ bed length How will you be using the car?: Daily driver + camping with the family, occasional loads from the hardware store, dirt/mulch loads, maybe eventually towing a camp trailer. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? My wife really likes heated seats, I have become pretty reliant on Car-Play, Remote-start would be great. 4x4 is a requirement here (Oregon) in a truck. What aspects are most important to you? Reliability. I am selling my 16 year old Tacoma because it's too small now. Otherwise, I would drive it for another 16 years. Mileage/Economy is my second concern. I understand that newer full-size trucks can achieve better mileage than my Tacoma because of new technology so that would be nice.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:06
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skipdogg posted:I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Emailing dealers trying to buy a car is a complete waste of time for all parties involved. I do not understand this position. Hasn't emailing dealer internet departments saved threadgoers here a significant amount of time? Sure lots of them will be hot garbage, but when you have one that Gets It, seems like it could save hours of bsing.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:11
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skipdogg posted:I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Emailing dealers trying to buy a car is a complete waste of time for all parties involved. Guinness posted:Fortunately at least one dealership in the area gets it. Gave me a detailed quote for exactly what I asked for via email, for a great price, and I'll probably reward them for it later this week.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:18
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It's a fishing expedition to qualify dealers. Through that lens, it works fine. edit: keep in mind Guinness hasn't showed up to take delivery and had the possible bait & switch occur so let's not go popping the champagne until he's holding the title
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Mar 23, 2021 20:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It's a fishing expedition to qualify dealers. Through that lens, it works fine. Yeah, I'm aware of this and really hoping they don't pull this poo poo. I'm prepared to walk away in that case. So far they seem like straight shooters though. If they do I might just go get a dang Costco membership and do their auto buying thingy. I'm not even trying to negotiate for the absolute lowest possible price, I just want to know what the deal is before I show up to sign the papers. Guinness fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 20:26
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