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Vintersorg posted:Citation needed. Sounds like BvS to Justice League to me.
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Mar 26, 2021 14:38
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They're doing all this "multiverse" poo poo so I guess why not have some Snyderverse movies going on, they wouldn't need to cancel anything because they're more or less abandoning the idea of "canon" anyway
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Mar 26, 2021 15:00
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I don't dislike JJ or anything, but people should stop letting him do masterplan mystery box plots.
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Mar 26, 2021 15:36
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2house2fly posted:They're doing all this "multiverse" poo poo so I guess why not have some Snyderverse movies going on, they wouldn't need to cancel anything because they're more or less abandoning the idea of "canon" anyway Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Mar 26, 2021 |
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Mar 26, 2021 15:39
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McCloud posted:At best he was rushed to do TLJ and went with the first draft instead of polishing it up and removing the most glaring flaws This really isn't true at all, and is kind of the opposite. Of all the Disney Star Wars movies, TLJ was the only one that wasn't rushed or compromised in any way, and it was the only one without writers and/or directors being fired partway through production, and it's one of the only Star Wars movies pre- or post-Disney to have the director as sole screenwriter (New Hope is the other one, if you include the uncredited script doctors who worked on TPM and ROTS). If you read the Art of TLJ book (which Johnson himself contributed to - the only time one of the directors or writers of the Disney movies did so) he goes into detail about the writing process and how from the first draft of the script, almost nothing changed to the shooting draft specifically because he got his vision down from the start and the higher-ups at Lucasfilm and Disney were fine with it. Like TLJ or not, and regardless of how much interference there was in the other Star Wars movies, it absolutely wasn't the case that TLJ was interfered with. I mean, Johnson was even heavily involved in writing the movie's novelization. He shaped the entire narrative of TLJ in a way that even Abrams didn't get to do for TFA.
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Mar 26, 2021 15:51
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TLJ is the best Star Wars film. Then the Prequels, then the OG trilogy. Force Awakens and RoS are the worst.
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Mar 26, 2021 15:56
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I think you absolutely need the JL2 film where the heroes are further along their personal goals but end in a low point.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:06
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Honestly after seeing what happened with Ray Fisher on this movie and seeing how they completely sideline John Boyega in Star Wars, I can almost guarantee that it was a racist higher up decision to just cut him or make him the character he ended up being
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Mar 26, 2021 16:09
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TLJ is great, it obviously suffered a lot from how scattershot TFA was with its mystery boxes and dangling plot threads and having to tie all this together into a coherent narrative but it did some really brilliant stuff with the characters and themes. I'm glad Rian's apparently still being given another chance to make his own Star Wars movie that isn't tied down to being a sequel. ROS doesn't really have that excuse though. I've seen people try to claim that TLJ didn't leave any way to move the story forward but I call bullshit on that one. It shaved down a lot of the narrative fat and left a clear path forward for the story with Kylo Ren's rise to power and the resistance fleeing, beaten but not broken. They just simply didn't want to follow that path, they wanted more plot twists and big reveals and magical bloodlines.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:10
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Honestly after seeing what happened with Ray Fisher on this movie and seeing how they completely sideline John Boyega in Star Wars, I can almost guarantee that it was a racist higher up decision to just cut him or make him the character he ended up being I really dont get what happened with Finn - even the first Force Awakens trailer makes it seem that Finn is both the main character and a Jedi
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Mar 26, 2021 16:11
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Aidan_702 posted:I really dont get what happened with Finn - even the first Force Awakens trailer makes it seem that Finn is both the main character and a Jedi Finn was a bait and switch to try and make it surprising when Rey ends up being the real main jedi instead, because plot twists
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Mar 26, 2021 16:13
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TLJ is the BVS of Star Wars because any mention of it is guaranteed to derail the conversation
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Mar 26, 2021 16:14
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TLJ is a movie at war with itself at the best of times and really impossible to separate from its context despite how much it clearly, desperately wants to be.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:15
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Gatts posted:TLJ is the best Star Wars film. Then the Prequels, then the OG trilogy. Force Awakens and RoS are the worst. Alright. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMWsO_-X7Y
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Mar 26, 2021 16:15
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i read somethnig - i think on this very forum - that raised the possibility that finn was the protagonist and rey the sidekick, which was changed in editing and reshoots. we know that TFA had some big changes made to it during production (constable zuvio, for one) and the infamous shortage of rey action figures makes more sense when hasbro didn't produce enough to cover the protagonist because she wasn't (much like how there were heaps and heaps of zuvio's. aside, finn also comes with a lightsaber which rey doesn't) it's unfortunate that we'll never get an honest account of the sequel film production because they seem to have been 'hectic' at best.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:19
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TLJ ends with an interesting setup: Ren is shown to be a hypocrite and liar (his throw the past away screed is only in service of his own power), Rey is set on a path of personal training without dogma or a teacher, and the Rebels are shown that their traditional insurrection has no support. But that leads you to a bunch of potentially great stuff. Rey struggling while developing her own philosophy (more grey? More rooted in actual teachings instead of dogma?), Ren increasingly isolated due to his being obsessed with Rey to the detriment of his war machine, the rebels fighting an ideological war instead of a traditional battle-based fight. Instead they went with..ugh Aidan_702 posted:I really dont get what happened with Finn - even the first Force Awakens trailer makes it seem that Finn is both the main character and a Jedi We can't have a black guy get with the white lady.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:21
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Augus posted:Finn was a bait and switch to try and make it surprising when Rey ends up being the real main jedi instead, because plot twists tbh I thought they were both going to be jedi/Force sensitive because wouldn't that be neat
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Mar 26, 2021 16:27
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McCloud posted:TLJ is the BVS of Star Wars because any mention of it is guaranteed to derail the conversation TLJ wishes it was as good as BVS
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Mar 26, 2021 16:27
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let's make the two ambitious and contentious blockbuster sequels fight each other
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Mar 26, 2021 16:30
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2house2fly posted:TLJ wishes it was as good as BVS Only a third of TLJ is boring, as opposed to all of it, making it the superior film
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Mar 26, 2021 16:37
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I haven't seen the ultimate extended directors cut of BvS, but that film landed solidly on the 50% of it is very good and 50% of it is very bad which kinda washes out into a very meh confusing experience. Like great job with a bunch of the visuals, the opening Batman scene is amazing in the row house. But then you get a sequence where Lex has made logos for heroes and put all his info on them in a loving folder for Bruce and Diana to stumble across so we can introduce the JL in a painful exposition info dump. Are the adjusted versions really as much an improvement as this cut was over the theatrical? I can't see that being the case but I'd revisit it if the adjusted cuts fix some of the obviously stupid poo poo in it.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:42
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RBA Starblade posted:Only a third of TLJ is boring, as opposed to all of it, making it the superior film  BvS Ultimate is loving brilliant start to finish.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:43
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Augus posted:let's make the two ambitious and contentious blockbuster sequels I changed my mind, make love not war
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Mar 26, 2021 16:44
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Vintersorg posted:
I watched the theatrical cut in theaters, it wasn't
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Mar 26, 2021 16:44
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RBA Starblade posted:I watched the theatrical cut in theaters, it wasn't Ultimate never went to theaters. So cool job bro!
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Mar 26, 2021 16:45
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Vintersorg posted:Ultimate never went to theaters. So cool job bro! Right, I'm not talking about the film I didn't see. I'm talking about the one I did!
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Mar 26, 2021 16:48
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RBA Starblade posted:Right, I'm not talking about the film I didn't see. I'm talking about the one I did! Yeah, that one stinks because ..... surprise suprise .. Warner Brothers butchered the loving thing.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:49
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2house2fly posted:TLJ wishes it was as good as BVS I mean, you're not wrong! But the analogy still holds RBA Starblade posted:Only a third of TLJ is boring, as opposed to all of it, making it the superior film It was never boring. It was however as someone eloquently put it, at war with itself. Vintersorg posted:Ultimate never went to theaters. So cool job bro!  The Notorious ZSB posted:I haven't seen the ultimate extended directors cut of BvS, but that film landed solidly on the 50% of it is very good and 50% of it is very bad which kinda washes out into a very meh confusing experience. Like great job with a bunch of the visuals, the opening Batman scene is amazing in the row house. But then you get a sequence where Lex has made logos for heroes and put all his info on them in a loving folder for Bruce and Diana to stumble across so we can introduce the JL in a painful exposition info dump. The UE adds like 30 minutes, most of which is about Clarks motivations for picking a fight with Batman, and Lois investigation into Lex's plot to frame Superman. It adds some context and makes explicit what the theatrical version heavily implied. If your major problem was Lex being weird then the UE probably won't help you there.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:52
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Detective No. 27 posted:I don't dislike JJ or anything, but people should stop letting him do masterplan mystery box plots. Does he even do those? Like other than Rey's parentage, most of his other stuff doesn't feature twist-reveals or even mysteries.
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Mar 26, 2021 17:03
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I think where The Last Jedi and BvS are actually similar is that they allow certain heroes or anti-heroes to be wrong and in the case of The Last Jedi, straight up awful people. Batman becoming more violent* in the face of being emasculated by actual Gods is hitting on similar themes as the toxic masculinity explored in The Last Jedi. The Last Jedi isn't at war with itself, it's just that people were sold on a toxic fascist's rants of "let the past die" as possibly a theme and then thought the movie was making a mistake when he turned out to be wrong. *I feel like both Whedon and Snyder seemed aligned with an imagined past for Bruce that is more in-line with what we see in traditional comics. I think you get that with Robin being called the boy wonder or the wind up penguins.
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Mar 26, 2021 17:05
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sethsez posted:WW84 is easy and obvious to follow up on regardless of that specific movie's reception because Gal Godot's take on the character is widely liked, and she's the only person who really needs to commit to a sequel. Also Ray Fisher is cool and hope he gets another movie to shine. Just hope they redesign the cyborg outfit. Doom Patrol's cyborg has this perfect retro and slightly cheesy outfit that just WORKS with him. Still think the JL one is a little too blatant CGI but not in a good way and more of a Green Lantern outtake way. Xealot posted:I loved the concept of Suicide Squad Joker. Trash gangster Joker is a great idea. Turning Joker and Harley into Die Antwoord is a great idea. Good call. I felt his BR2049 guy was a bit better but still not as memorable as I felt the movie wanted him to be. Pretty much all of Leto's later work make me think they should just go all in with Leto and do a cult leader Joker if they wanted to use him as opposed to the gangster concept. Cesar Romero's "Clown Prince of Crime",Nicholson's "Jack Nicholson in makeup", Hamill's "Mr J", Ledger's "Agent of Chaos", Joaqin's "Travis Bickle has a bad day in the 70's"... they all brought a giant presence that went beyond their screens. Leto's never really grabbed me the same way, despite me not hating it. The JL apoc scene did more for me than SS but a big part of that might have been the dialogue. I still would like to see more but not sure how much he could bring. Cult leaders are usually full of shite wank pheasants that ooze surface charisma that brings in the gullible, damaged and desperate, but it's just an act to hide the person inside. Good version of this was a character called Jeremiah Sand in the movie Mandy (go see that movie). if the performance felt a bit like an act that could actually work in its favour. We haven't seen that in a Joker so it could be interesting and Leto could totally pull it off. Now I want to watch Mandy again. That movie is awesome. Here's a trailer. Warning: Nic Cage! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI054ow6KJk
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Mar 26, 2021 17:16
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Are the adjusted versions really as much an improvement as this cut was over the theatrical? I can't see that being the case but I'd revisit it if the adjusted cuts fix some of the obviously stupid poo poo in it. A lot of the "confused" nature is solved by adding in more connectivity; there was basically an entire plot removed where the African woman who makes the initial complain about Superman is just a paid actor by Lex, there's also a whole subplot where Clark looks into Batman more which adds more human moments to his character and gives him way more reason to be confrontational towards Batman. Also there were complaints about the theatrical having "abrupt" and confusing editing*, largely because they did have to make these cuts quick to squeeze into the timeframe WB mandated shortly before release, and that is fixed by the Ultimate edition. That said, there is a bit of additional bloat, and the core plot is still there, but it is a definite improvement (i.e. if you hated the Martha thing, or Batman shooting people, that's all still there). * this aspect actually grew on me tbh, what they did was essentially bridge the "dreamlike" nature of the opening few scenes of the movie with the Knightmare scene about halfway through the film, so you get this scattered, dreamlike quality to the first half of the movie, up until Bruce has a nightmarish vision of the future and solidifies his plan to kill Superman, at which point things snap into a more "naturalistic" style. It's not perfect certainly, but IMO it was a brilliant solution by the editor being given a last minute mandate to cut 20+ minutes of a movie on the verge of being released
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Mar 26, 2021 17:19
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Mar 26, 2021 17:28
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Saw the The Suicide Squad trailer. Might be time to jump on that Ayer cut hashtag train.
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Mar 26, 2021 17:32
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I like TLJ, but I still kind of wish Rey had joined Ren in ruling FO. Pretty surprising twist, works as the low-point of the series, and you can go in a lot of fun directions with that. We'll never, ever get it, but I'd love to see just what happened behind the scenes. I genuinely believe JJ/Rian/Colin had a plan, but Disney ripped it up because Colin directed a bad movie and 50% of nerds whined on twitter about TLJ.
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Mar 26, 2021 17:32
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McCloud posted:At best he was rushed to do TLJ and went with the first draft instead of polishing it up and removing the most glaring flaws Rian actually had about a year longer to work on 8 than Abrams had to do either of his movies. It was still rushed, because every movie is, but definitely not a first draft.
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Mar 26, 2021 17:34
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In BVS Bruce has the first nightmare scene that has Superman and also parademons and then the message from the Flash about how Lois is the key. And as Alfred points out in Justice League yeah absolutely Lois was directly involved in what goes down throughout BVS in a critical way. So that happens, and Bruce's faith in the world is restored and he understands Superman is the real deal because he sacrificed himself/etc. So then Justice League happens, and Bruce worries that the Lois is the key thing might have been referring to "something darker" and the Flash said he was too early/etc. And we get that of course with Superman getting the black suit and Bruce continuing to dream about a slightly different but still lovely version of the future with despot Superman (and as some have observed you could interpret his beating down of Steppenwolf to be a little more brutal than expected, though personally I saw that as just Superman being relieved that this guy was nothing compared to Doomsday and that he was more ripping/beating the armor off of him than anything). Anyway the lovely future stuff, since the absolute worst first version of the nightmare in BVS had parademons in it, was Darkseid going to relate to this? Like time travel shenanigans+Superman post-apocalypse future could easily be its own entire movie so that seems like it would have been a lot. Was the final resolution going to be Batman/Flash getting a message back/accurate enough that BVS happens differently where he and Batman aren't at odds with each other so Superman's last moments aren't "Batman focusing his entire life on destroying me before I sacrifice myself," so that when he's resurrected he's not as violent? Like I doubt the entire story of what was specifically planned will be known for some time but if it was going to hinge on some degree of Bruce/Superman/Lois' faith in each other that would have been kind of cool. Neurolimal posted:I like TLJ, but I still kind of wish Rey had joined Ren in ruling FO. Pretty surprising twist, works as the low-point of the series, and you can go in a lot of fun directions with that. Yeah I can't imagine none of the three had some kind of general arc or plan in mind even if Disney acts like there was none, I mean clearly there was none by the time finished products were being made but yeah. I was surprised Rey didn't actually join Ren (or vice versa!). I like TLJ, but I think the praise it gets for shaking up the formula and stuff is a little exaggerated, it DOES shake things up in some fun ways but all it ends almost the exact same way it began. In the heat of the moment when I saw it for the first time I felt let down by that because it really would have been something that shakes up the story a lot. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Mar 26, 2021 |
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Mar 26, 2021 17:34
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And yet, game Blouses.
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Mar 26, 2021 17:47
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Robot Style posted:Rian actually had about a year longer to work on 8 than Abrams had to do either of his movies. It was still rushed, because every movie is, but definitely not a first draft. I stand corrected Neo Rasa posted:
From memory: The way time travel in the snyderverse works is that you can only jump back in time once a year when the earth is in the correct relative position in space, because you travel in time, but not space (this is obviously not accurate science because earth isn't just moving in its cycle around the sun, it's actually speeding across the galaxy at an astonishing speed, but w/e). So apparently, the idea is that BvS > JL > Knightmare happens, Barry and Cyborg do their calculations and they have two options to pick from. Bruce asks them "Well which is your first choice? Ok, Don't go with that one because you already tried that and you came too early". trying to untangle the time shenanigans in my head I parse it to at least three timelines. BvS>JL>Knightmare because they picked the wrong time to jump back BvS>JL>Knightmare where they pick the correct time to jump back which in turn leads to BvS>JL> Lois not dying which leads to the "good" ending.
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Mar 26, 2021 17:47
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lol
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Mar 26, 2021 17:54
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