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AradoBalanga posted:Apparently, VW's original drafts were being worked on when the decision to make CF came down the pipeline (to the point where CF swallowed the part of the budget allocated for VW), so the order is more likely: Silver Snow-->Azure Moon-->Verdant Wind's original version-->Crimson Flower/scrapping original Verdant Wind-->Verdant Wind's final version. The change was also probably late in development, so I imagine VW being a plain copy/paste of SS was just so Claude and the Golden Deer didn't get completely screwed over by the decision to make CF while using whatever budget was left over. Which apparently was enough to let VW have its own animated cutscenes; however, I imagine those probably were done during VW's original drafting, then just reworked to fit the final release version. That sounds interesting; do you know where that (the bit about "the decision to make CF" came very late) comes from? The interview I found says that there was a decision made later to make it easier to go to CF (apparently before the requirements were even harder), but not (as far as I can see) that CF itself was a significantly later addition than any of the other non-SS routes. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Mar 26, 2021 |
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Mar 26, 2021 03:02
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Shinji117 posted:That sounds interesting; do you know where that (the bit about "the decision to make CF" came very late) comes from? The interview I found says that there was a decision made later to make it easier to go to CF (apparently before the requirements were even harder), but not (as far as I can see) that CF itself was a significantly later addition than any of the other non-SS routes.
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Mar 26, 2021 03:36
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Well what the gently caress. I completed Dedue’s paralogue (but didn’t get the battalion, which I thought was weird) but apparently he fuckin died anyway. That’s bullshit.
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Mar 26, 2021 04:52
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Well what the gently caress. I completed Dedue’s paralogue (but didn’t get the battalion, which I thought was weird) but apparently he fuckin died anyway. That’s bullshit. nah man hes fine
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Mar 26, 2021 05:55
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Good, because Gilbert is an old nerd
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Mar 26, 2021 06:21
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AradoBalanga posted:Apparently, VW's original drafts were being worked on when the decision to make CF came down the pipeline (to the point where CF swallowed the part of the budget allocated for VW), so the order is more likely: Silver Snow-->Azure Moon-->Verdant Wind's original version-->Crimson Flower/scrapping original Verdant Wind-->Verdant Wind's final version. The change was also probably late in development, so I imagine VW being a plain copy/paste of SS was just so Claude and the Golden Deer didn't get completely screwed over by the decision to make CF while using whatever budget was left over. Which apparently was enough to let VW have its own animated cutscenes; however, I imagine those probably were done during VW's original drafting, then just reworked to fit the final release version. Considering how gimped VW is and how irrelevant to the story the Deer are even in their own route, I wonder if the better decision wouldn't have been to just scrap them as a route and split the Deer between the other two houses post timeskip. Heck you could then give Claude the DLC route instead of the Ashen Wolves since lets admit it, even if you like them as characters the DLC story is completely lame, reveals no new plot revelations, and isn't even canon to White Clouds, much less the multiple part 2's. That way they have enough time to give Claude and the Alliance an actual story with it's own themes and stuff.
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Mar 26, 2021 08:51
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galagazombie posted:Considering how gimped VW is and how irrelevant to the story the Deer are even in their own route, I wonder if the better decision wouldn't have been to just scrap them as a route and split the Deer between the other two houses post timeskip. I’ve seen that suggested a few times and it’s a bad idea everytime cause incomplete as it is VW was still the only route I actually enjoyed playing and would be willing to replay. The real answer is that either should have only made Silver Snow (if they were as married to the idea of that route as the interview suggests) or not made Silver Snow at all because in the final game it basically only exists as a punishment for people who hosed up trying to side with Edelgard. As is they basically spent most of their budget on the two least popular routes (SS and AM*) and scrimped on the two people were most interested in playing (VW and CF). *At least outside of Japan, I hear the Lions are more popular over there
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Mar 26, 2021 16:00
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AM just needed more work so that you could either fully embrace going down the path of bloodshed and end up with everyone dead or actually start trying to reign in Dimitri earlier on and thus make the whole message that base AM go with actually have story justification.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:09
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People complaining about Edel route having cut content but Dimitri's route also has cut content that I feel really hurt his route. I wonder what they were planning with Felix and Annette.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:35
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Lorenz on VW is in a similar situation (if you hack the game to unrecruit them they show up as an enemy with unique dialogue) so I think at some point in development you just weren’t guaranteed to keep your whole house after the timeskip.
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Mar 26, 2021 16:47
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Scrap Dragon posted:Lorenz on VW is in a similar situation (if you hack the game to unrecruit them they show up as an enemy with unique dialogue) so I think at some point in development you just weren’t guaranteed to keep your whole house after the timeskip. I def think the game's themes would have been better served if they did that, but I don't know if I would've liked it as much? Like the writing can be a bit flimsy but I do appreciate how they put in work to justify all recruitable characters having some reason to stick around.
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Mar 26, 2021 18:33
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Tired Moritz posted:People complaining about Edel route having cut content but Dimitri's route also has cut content that I feel really hurt his route. I wonder what they were planning with Felix and Annette. Scrap Dragon posted:Lorenz on VW is in a similar situation (if you hack the game to unrecruit them they show up as an enemy with unique dialogue) so I think at some point in development you just weren’t guaranteed to keep your whole house after the timeskip.
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Mar 26, 2021 19:16
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ok what the gently caress are you supposed to do in hard mode chapter 5 in radiant dawn jill dying is a defeat condition but she has the durability of a paper towel and almost eats it in two hits. the only reason she doesn't instantly die on turn one is because one of the enemies is programmed to not attack her!
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Mar 27, 2021 18:58
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you have to use volug and sothe insanely aggressively from what i remember
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Mar 27, 2021 19:02
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i got this level mere moments before jill's untimely demise on the last attempt i should've known i was about to lose, you don't just get perfect micaiah levels and yeah seems like a hyperaggression with your OP units is the only reliable strat here. on my current attempt without doing that she just dodged two attacks in a row so i think i may be out of the woods though!
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Mar 27, 2021 19:10
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more fun times from RD hard mode i've just learned that this pictured myrmidon  has a crit chance (5%) on Fiona. he will attack Fiona on turn 2, there is absolutely nothing you can do to interrupt it happening with how far away you start, and if he procs the crit he will kill Fiona, which is a game over. no i didn't learn this because it just happened to me, why do you ask so this map just has a 5% automatic failure chance every time you attempt it. now this is game design.
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Mar 27, 2021 23:54
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enemies without killer weapons just straight up shouldn't be allowed to crit imo. Just full-on special case in the combat calculation: if the weapon's crit rate is below 20, the final critical is 0.
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Mar 28, 2021 00:00
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fe10 us hard mode/jp maniac mode, is not a very good game.
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Mar 28, 2021 00:15
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i've gone so long without even touching it, i have to beat it now even if i die trying
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Mar 28, 2021 00:26
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Endorph posted:fe10 us hard mode/jp maniac mode, is not a very good game. I'm sure people will have a counter example but I think maniac/lunatic mode is just not fun in any FE period
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Mar 28, 2021 01:26
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The only one I even attempt is Birthright, but Lunatic in that game is still easier than most other games Hard mode.
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Mar 28, 2021 01:32
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It's at its best in FE12 but it's mostly just a product of being really tightly tuned and having great maps which encourage aggressive play. If you find them fundamentally miserable in the rest of the series, it'll just be less miserable for you, probably. Whereas for anyone who generally likes them, they'll find it amazing.
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Mar 28, 2021 01:32
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I thought 3houses lunatic/maniac/whatever wasn't bad maybe I'm just looking at it more positively after fates/awakening tho
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Mar 28, 2021 01:38
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Harder modes are cool when it feels like there's both an element of planning and a little luck here and there that allows you to move forward. The moment it feels like it's all up to the RNG regardless of how well you planned for it is the moment I go "gently caress every second of that with a power-drill to the face".
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Mar 28, 2021 02:07
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cheetah7071 posted:It's at its best in FE12 but it's mostly just a product of being really tightly tuned and having great maps which encourage aggressive play. If you find them fundamentally miserable in the rest of the series, it'll just be less miserable for you, probably. Whereas for anyone who generally likes them, they'll find it amazing. I agree that FE12 is the best Lunatic/Maniac/etc mode but even that is held back by having only about 20 out of the 80 characters be actually viable, which is probably the worst unit balance in the entire series.
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Mar 28, 2021 02:23
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Oh yeah part of the tight balance is that it very much assumes you use the good units
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Mar 28, 2021 02:28
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From my last playthrough, comparing a fairly mediocre unit to one of the truly dire onescheetah7071 posted:Caeda, who I haven't deployed in 9 chapters and wasn't using heavily even then, promoted at level 13 and reclassed to general compares favorably to the new recruits I'm getting now cheetah7071 posted:For people who haven't played FE12 and don't know just how dire is it, you get Caeda in chapter 5. In lunatic she's kinda bad against most enemies but her wing spear has the same effectiveness as a rapier but higher might, so if you forge it up a bit she can be your best unit against cavaliers and knights, who aren't super common but tend to be annoying. I forged +3 might onto it, enough to OHKO cavaliers, and then over the next three chapters proceeded to use her against enemies she was effective against and basically nothing else. Then you enter first mage land and then dragon land so I ditched her because her strength is real bad so she's basically useless without the wing spear (in retrospect I should have promoted her and used the promotion bonuses as a band-aid on her strength but at the time I wasn't sure how many promotion items I was going to get in a timely manner). In chapter 15 you're back in a map with enemies the wing spear is good against, so after not deploying her since chapter 8 and using her fairly lightly in 5-7, I promoted her and made her a general. Dolph, also pictured here, is a general that joins in that same chapter, and wasn't in the original so he has absolutely no precedent for what his stats should be. Most enemies in this map have 20 speed, for reference.
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Mar 28, 2021 02:30
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on a more positive note about this playthrough, i've been using Leonardo. and when i say using, i don't mean babying and rigging all his levels and feeding him every possible kill and all my BEXP and stat boosters (i'm doing that with meg because she is my baby), just like doing normal archer things with him, weakening enemies for other people and occasionally finishing a dude off. and to my massive surprise, he's been a completely fine unit! not hugely powerful by any means but like, he hasn't fallen behind the curve in levels or stats and he's been contributing a decent amount every chapter. leo was always one of those units i used to instantly dismiss because i looked at their growths and they didn't have sexy big numbers in strength or speed, but in his case i've also always seen him grouped with the terrible RD unit crew of meg, fiona, lyre etc by lots of other people too so i've never had any reason to give him a second look. now that i am doing that, and on the hardest difficulty no less... you really don't have to go out of your way to try to get something out of him at all! he carries his own weight no problem as long as you aren't like, intentionally neglecting him and only letting him get a couple shots off per chapter like i used to do. now that i think about it, this revelation has to be partly because archers are always better on harder difficulty modes in this series, when you can't rely on your power units facetanking the entire map on enemy phase and actually need the safe and accurate chip damage they provide. still, leonardo clearly doesn't deserve all the bullying he gets.
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Mar 28, 2021 02:38
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The issue with FE12 is that after Wolf and Sedgar in FE11 were actually fun and useful units, they seemingly figured that just making 50 of them and putting them in every chapter in the game was a good idea. So now there's just an endless parade of prepromotes with bad bases but busted growths. Like Dolph there has 60%s in everything before class mods. But like... Wolf and Sedgar's growths were way better than that and they came early enough that their bad bases were still workable. Amppelix posted:now that i think about it, this revelation has to be partly because archers are always better on harder difficulty modes in this series, when you can't rely on your power units facetanking the entire map on enemy phase and actually need the safe and accurate chip damage they provide. still, leonardo clearly doesn't deserve all the bullying he gets.
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Mar 28, 2021 02:41
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Amppelix posted:still, leonardo clearly doesn't deserve all the bullying he gets. He's an archer, he deserves exactly as much bullying as he gets.
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Mar 28, 2021 02:45
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the 'archers are bad' meme is nearly as wrongheaded as the 'marcus is bad' one, it just affects the opposite side of the playerbase
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Mar 28, 2021 03:08
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Amppelix posted:on a more positive note about this playthrough, i've been using Leonardo. and when i say using, i don't mean babying and rigging all his levels and feeding him every possible kill and all my BEXP and stat boosters (i'm doing that with meg because she is my baby), just like doing normal archer things with him, weakening enemies for other people and occasionally finishing a dude off. and to my massive surprise, he's been a completely fine unit! not hugely powerful by any means but like, he hasn't fallen behind the curve in levels or stats and he's been contributing a decent amount every chapter.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:09
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I’ve changed my mind and now think that PoR needs a remake, if only to get rid of this asinine 5 support limit. It’s not the first game I’ve played that’s had this limit but it’s the first game where it’s actually mattered because PoR actually has a reasonable rate of unlocking supports compared to the GBA games. Also, there just needs to be more supports in general cause some of these character’s support lists are so bad. Like Nephenee only supports three characters and two of them are either literally the same type of unit or close enough (and most likely worse than she is) so you’re not likely to use both Neph and one of them and the last is an (admittedly cool) lategame prepromote. So Neph basically doesn’t have any supports until the rear end end of the game, and that’s only if you can make space on your team for Calil
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Mar 28, 2021 03:12
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Strange Matter posted:In my experience Leo is just fine, the biggest problem with him is that EXP is such a premium commodity with the Dawn Brigade that beefing him up means having a weaker Nolan or Edward and those two are the crux of the Dawn Brigade, and you need along with Jill to be good to make the night time river crossing level in Part 3 tolerable. I hope that once you get to Part 3 you aren't regretting your thoughts and actions.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:15
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Endorph posted:leos usable but his main issue is that hes in a game where shinon exists. now you can only use shinon and leo at the same time at the very end, but still. its like how erk is functional but in the same game as pent. its no surprise people call him bad.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:17
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Leo has the usual low level archer problems. Chip is good early game, but it doesn't exactly give him a lot of levels and it is a lot less useful when you've got Sothe, Volug, Tormod, Nailah, etc than when your front line consisted of Nolan and Edward. He needs quite a bit of love to be relevant at all in Part 3 and even then, he's basically never going to be any good in Part 4 (which is hostile to archers in general with all the rout maps.) That said, I wouldn't put him in the same tier as units like Meg and Fiona. I'd put him with Aran and Edward in the "decent early game, and can be made viable with lots of effort" tier.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:22
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Amppelix posted:well i think evaluating units based mostly on the last five chapters of the game is silly (and yes i extremely did this exact thing back when this game was recent) I mean, archers are usually at their best in the lategame, after they have time for their growths to kick in and there's more high priority targets making a strong player phase unit more attractive. The archer class can function but there was a long run where nearly every archer they actually made was extremely dire
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Mar 28, 2021 03:28
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Amppelix posted:well i think evaluating units based mostly on the last five chapters of the game is silly (and yes i extremely did this exact thing back when this game was recent) no im not saying it isnt silly just that even when they're entirely separated, shinon makes leo feel way worse by comparison. the entire dawn brigade has this problem just due to the difficulty contrast between the mercs and dawn brigade in part 3, but leo gets it the worst. im not saying 'shinon makes leo an objectively bad unit' just that 'if you give the player a level 1 sniper with reasonable stats and then a level 16 sniper with every stat capped, and have them swap between using them in subsequent chapters, how do you think people are gonna feel' this is also why nolan is the one people dont shittalk because hes the one dawn brigade unit whos on par with his greil merc equivalent. like boyd is among the worst of the greil mercs but nolan isnt outclassed by him so nolan gets overvalued as the sole lynchpin of the dawn brigade. Endorph fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Mar 28, 2021 |
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Mar 28, 2021 03:35
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ah yeah i get what you're saying. yeah that's totally a psychological trick. there's probably even a specific name for this sort of bias.cheetah7071 posted:I mean, archers are usually at their best in the lategame, after they have time for their growths to kick in and there's more high priority targets making a strong player phase unit more attractive.
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Mar 28, 2021 04:02
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it depends on the kind of fe endgame you mean. cause there's two different kinds of FEs, one where the endgame is threatening cause it has really strng enemies and one where the endgame just tosses tons of dudes at you. conquest is the most extreme example of the former, fe9 maniac is the most extreme example of the latter. incidentally archers are really good in conquest and suck in fe9.
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Mar 28, 2021 04:04
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