|
This is the one that stuck with me the most, and is easily one of the best in the series.
|
# ? Mar 29, 2021 20:04 |
|
|
# ? Apr 27, 2024 16:44 |
i think it's interesting how cassie is so often dismissed as a moralizing wimp yet her first thought here is "there are a million ways to kill this yeerk without any suspicion whatsoever and an equal number of reasons to do so". that she's not going through with it doesn't meant she's blind to the expedient course of action
|
|
# ? Mar 29, 2021 20:57 |
|
Is this the first time it's revealed that at least some of the Yeerks suspect there are humans who've gotten their mitts on the morphing power? Also, Cassie referred to the free Hork-Bajir "colony." But isn't it just the two of them? For now?
|
# ? Mar 29, 2021 21:05 |
|
Is this the first book that actually presents the Yeerks as something other than completely and irredeemably evil?
|
# ? Mar 29, 2021 22:50 |
|
Jazerus posted:i think it's interesting how cassie is so often dismissed as a moralizing wimp yet her first thought here is "there are a million ways to kill this yeerk without any suspicion whatsoever and an equal number of reasons to do so". that she's not going through with it doesn't meant she's blind to the expedient course of action Well, of course not, because this Yeerk is specifically a threat to her. disaster pastor posted:the cop wasn't a known high-ranking Yeerk and was only indirectly a problem for the rest of the team; he was a threat to Cassie specifically. If someone believes Cassie is a preachy coward, her killing this Controller, in the heat of the fight at the Yeerk pool where nobody would know for sure that she did it or how, doesn't necessarily convince them otherwise. Note that this is probably not true, because: disaster pastor posted:I can't believe at all that that's how we're intended to read her (for one, KAA admitted Cassie's her favorite). But it doesn't counter the people dismissing Cassie, it feeds into it. I obviously don't believe she's actually supposed to be a coward, but "this war is not worth killing for, I can't handle fighting to protect Jake/Rachel/the others when most hosts are innocent" running right into "how best to kill this innocent little girl to protect me (and I guess therefore the others, too) from the Yeerk in her head?" doesn't throw people off that train of thought. Unintentional subtext is still subtext.
|
# ? Mar 29, 2021 23:34 |
|
e X posted:Is this the first book that actually presents the Yeerks as something other than completely and irredeemably evil? There was the Yeerk that gave Ax the location where Visser 3 feeds as revenge for his dead lover.
|
# ? Mar 29, 2021 23:47 |
|
WrightOfWay posted:There was the Yeerk that gave Ax the location where Visser 3 feeds as revenge for his dead lover. Also the Visser 3 vs. Visser 1 gang cold war, setting them free to cause trouble in Book 5, though that's more "enemy of my enemy" scheming than not-evil, necessarily.
|
# ? Mar 29, 2021 23:53 |
|
Fuschia tude posted:Also the Visser 3 vs. Visser 1 gang cold war, setting them free to cause trouble in Book 5, though that's more "enemy of my enemy" scheming than not-evil, necessarily. Yeah, I consider that just a part of the incredibly hosed up nature of Yeerk politics, while a Yeerk that cares about someone else so deeply that he would help the Yeerk's sworn enemies is a lot more sympathetic.
|
# ? Mar 30, 2021 00:04 |
|
Animorphs-Book 19-The Departure, Chapter 9quote:I read a book by this hunter once. He had hunted lions. He’d hunted tigers. He’d hunted bears. But he said of all the dangerous animals a man could hunt, nothing was as dangerous as a leopard. They were smart, adaptable, cunning, and ruthless. They were the ultimate hunters. And so much for Cassie following Jake's instructions not to morph. Chapter 10 quote:I felt my legs dwindle in size, but not weaken. I felt my chest and shoulders swell and become large. My face began to bulge outward. Ouch.
|
# ? Mar 30, 2021 05:04 |
|
Okay, this book is awesome. Not too many kids books would risk drawing down the setting from intergalactic war to simple interplay between two characters like this.
|
# ? Mar 30, 2021 06:36 |
|
Grammarchist posted:Okay, this book is awesome. Not too many kids books would risk drawing down the setting from intergalactic war to simple interplay between two characters like this. Yeah, I don't remember this particular book making much of an impression on me (aside from the aforementioned yeerk sex) but reading them now as an adult, it's my favorite of the series up to this point. The book's ending oh that ending though, oof
|
# ? Mar 30, 2021 06:48 |
|
e X posted:Is this the first book that actually presents the Yeerks as something other than completely and irredeemably evil? I feel like the closest we've come is overhearing conversations between Yeerks way lower down on the totem pole and sympathising with them over having to deal with an awful boss. Cog-in-the-machine type camaraderie. quote:“The Andalites are the busybodies of the galaxy,” Karen said. “Always sticking their noses in other people’s business. We have a right to expand. We have a right to advance. But you Andalites don’t see it that way, do you? No, the whole galaxy has to belong to the mighty Andalites.” This is interesting because it's presumably the line fed to the rank and file in a militaristic, totalitarian empire: we have a right to become strong and advanced and we will seize that right through power. Whereas another line of reasoning that's been sort of hinted at, but which KA touches on more in the future, is one which humans and Andalites might more instinctively sympathise with, but which a totalitarian Yeerk government will downplay because of the vibe of weakness: Yeerks are an intelligent species and have a right to experience the world as more than sightless slugs in some sludge.
|
# ? Mar 30, 2021 08:15 |
|
WrightOfWay posted:There was the Yeerk that gave Ax the location where Visser 3 feeds as revenge for his dead lover. Honestly, that is kind of weird in retrospective. It highlight how unrealistically evil Visser 3 is. With the amount of subordinates he kills, he should have been assassinated a long time ago.
|
# ? Mar 30, 2021 16:37 |
|
e X posted:Honestly, that is kind of weird in retrospective. It highlight how unrealistically evil Visser 3 is. With the amount of subordinates he kills, he should have been assassinated a long time ago. I’m pretty sure anyone who assassinated him would be summarily executed for losing the only Andalite under Yeerk control
|
# ? Mar 30, 2021 17:43 |
Even Visser One, who obviously outranks him, will only gently caress with him, not outright attempt assassination.
|
|
# ? Mar 30, 2021 19:09 |
|
freebooter posted:I feel like the closest we've come is overhearing conversations between Yeerks way lower down on the totem pole and sympathising with them over having to deal with an awful boss. Cog-in-the-machine type camaraderie. I like that on the surface it's basically the same argument the Japanese Empire made in the runup to WWII, with regard to the colonial powers surrounding them in Asia. Especially when you factor in that the Andalites have been responsible for some major war crimes of their own, making it easier for a conflicted Yeerk to rationalize their own empire's actions.
|
# ? Mar 31, 2021 00:22 |
|
Animorphs-Book 19-The Departure, Chapter 11quote:The cave was unoccupied. I found that out very quickly, using the wolf’s senses. The answer to that is obvious, of course, even if Yeerks choose not to see it. Humans, or Yeerks, or Hork-Bajir, or Taxxons, or Andalites aren't pigs. Pigs are fairly smart animals, but as far as we know, they aren't sapient, they don't have a separate consciousness or sense of self, they don't make future plans or think abstractly, in the same way that people do. If the Yeerks were infesting horses (and we've seen they're able to), for instance, or even chimpanzees, I don't know that many people would be all that bothered. Chapter 12 quote:We took turns staying awake and watching the cave entrance. It was very weird, really. We were deadly enemies to each other. If Karen - or at least the Yeerk in her head - got the chance, she would run to Visser Three and give me up. Not much to say except I think this is both a good chapter and a good book.
|
# ? Mar 31, 2021 04:05 |
|
This book is great so far but it's bothering me a bit that Karen's Yeerk doesn't just swap hosts while Cassie is asleep.
|
# ? Mar 31, 2021 06:25 |
GodFish posted:This book is great so far but it's bothering me a bit that Karen's Yeerk doesn't just swap hosts while Cassie is asleep. Blind natural body, not gonna infest Cassie without a guide. Nobody is around to keep Karen from crushing the yeerk after it leaves her either.
|
|
# ? Mar 31, 2021 06:45 |
|
GodFish posted:This book is great so far but it's bothering me a bit that Karen's Yeerk doesn't just swap hosts while Cassie is asleep. Yeah, I was wondering that, too. But I guess the former host could just immediately wake her up. Fuschia tude fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Mar 31, 2021 |
# ? Mar 31, 2021 07:11 |
|
Good points!
|
# ? Mar 31, 2021 08:26 |
|
From the perspective of the Karen Yeerk this must be terrifying. She's lost in unknown territory where she absolutely will not be able to leave alive on her own because she's been forced into a pitiful and weak body. She's trapped with an enemy soldier/terrorist who has just revealed a secret of monumental importance which could end the war in days. Karen knows now that there is no way she can ever be allowed to return to her people. She's just being toyed with at this point.
|
# ? Mar 31, 2021 10:00 |
|
quote:If Marco or Rachel had been there beside me, I know what they’d have said: She can’t be allowed to survive unless we can find a way to hold her for three days. That is when the Yeerk in her head would need to return to the Yeerk pool for nourishment. Tobias and Ax would have agreed. Jake, too, although it would have bothered him terribly. I don't really get why Cassie is so laissez-faire here about the actual enslaved human being controlled by the Yeerk. Letting the Karen Yeerk live must mean condemning an innocent child, right? (I must have read this one, because I remember the Hatchet ref and the not counting to five trick, but the actual plot is a blank).
|
# ? Mar 31, 2021 12:46 |
|
rollick posted:I don't really get why Cassie is so laissez-faire here about the actual enslaved human being controlled by the Yeerk. Letting the Karen Yeerk live must mean condemning an innocent child, right? (I must have read this one, because I remember the Hatchet ref and the not counting to five trick, but the actual plot is a blank). Yeah, that part stuck out to me too. It seems like something Cassie would definitely pick up on. That said, this has been such a departure from the normal books and is really fascinating to read. I like it a lot.
|
# ? Mar 31, 2021 23:21 |
|
Soup du Jour posted:I’m pretty sure anyone who assassinated him would be summarily executed for losing the only Andalite under Yeerk control Actually, now that I think about it--would they, though? Surely, what's valuable about any given infestation is the host themselves and the position that person holds, or other power available to them (e.g., morphing). Exactly which Yeerk is doing the infesting is immaterial; they're all pretty much replaceable cogs to be swapped out at will. We've already seen that carried out with Tom, as his original Yeerk got promoted, and he's now controlled by a different Yeerk. Every replacement Yeerk gains instant access to the past knowledge and memories of the host, so there's not even any real onboarding-time necessary after a transfer of control. And speaking of which, how does Visser Three actually feed, anyway? Am I forgetting a detail from an earlier book, or is this elaborated in a later one? How can the Yeerks possibly contain a morph-capable host during his Kandrona bath? It's not like he can just morph a fly or something and get sealed in a box for 110 minutes, because the body of the infesting Yeerk is absorbed away into z-space during a morph. And every third day, when he's a blind, insensate slug in a pool, what's stopping an ambitious Yeerk (say, one or a conspiracy of several members of his personal guard) from squishing him and infesting Alloran themselves?
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 00:23 |
does visser 3 have small morphs? he doesn't seem to, and in fact seems to exclusively favor very large ones aside from the kafit bird, which might have been the one non-taxxon morph that alloran already had. it's hard to use morphing for escape purposes if you're in a small room and all you have available is poo poo like The Sea Dragon of Talaxias Beta, and they probably sedate him every time too. it's a good point though that visser 3 must have somebody working for him that's so loyal he can safely leave his host without them killing him. either that, or there's simply a yeerk cultural taboo on violence against the unhosted
|
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 01:34 |
|
Jazerus posted:does visser 3 have small morphs? he doesn't seem to, and in fact seems to exclusively favor very large ones aside from the kafit bird, which might have been the one non-taxxon morph that alloran already had. it's hard to use morphing for escape purposes if you're in a small room and all you have available is poo poo like The Sea Dragon of Talaxias Beta, and they probably sedate him every time too. We saw in Book 2 that he's acquired a "Yeerkbane" morph, capable of sucking out an actively-infesting Yeerk and eating them alive. He even plays a recording of him doing exactly that to the last subordinate who failed him. So, if there is such a taboo, it's plainly not universal.
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 02:13 |
|
Fuschia tude posted:And speaking of which, how does Visser Three actually feed, anyway? Am I forgetting a detail from an earlier book, or is this elaborated in a later one? How can the Yeerks possibly contain a morph-capable host during his Kandrona bath? It's not like he can just morph a fly or something and get sealed in a box for 110 minutes, because the body of the infesting Yeerk is absorbed away into z-space during a morph. And every third day, when he's a blind, insensate slug in a pool, what's stopping an ambitious Yeerk (say, one or a conspiracy of several members of his personal guard) from squishing him and infesting Alloran themselves? I think KA actually answered that first question by saying that when Visser Three comes out to feed, Alloran is drugged and loaded down with all sorts of chains and restraints on top of that, so he's not really in any position to escape when Visser Three leaves to feed.
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 02:17 |
Fuschia tude posted:We saw in Book 2 that he's acquired a "Yeerkbane" morph, capable of sucking out an actively-infesting Yeerk and eating them alive. He even plays a recording of him doing exactly that to the last subordinate who failed him. So, if there is such a taboo, it's plainly not universal. esplin...is kind of hosed up. i suspect that he gets a bit of a high off of alloran's satisfaction at yeerk death; he's just too gleeful about murdering his subordinates, and, well, we all know that alloran didn't have a very high opinion of the rules of war. it seems pretty clear to me that all of the other yeerks think he is a huge weirdo, so i wouldn't necessarily draw any conclusions about yeerk culture from how he behaves. in fact, i'd say that the visceral disgust of his subordinates at the idea of using - becoming - a yeerkbane supports the idea that killing the unhosted is some deeply weird serial killer poo poo to a yeerk
|
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 02:49 |
|
Jazerus posted:esplin...is kind of hosed up. i suspect that he gets a bit of a high off of alloran's satisfaction at yeerk death; he's just too gleeful about murdering his subordinates, and, well, we all know that alloran didn't have a very high opinion of the rules of war. it seems pretty clear to me that all of the other yeerks think he is a huge weirdo, so i wouldn't necessarily draw any conclusions about yeerk culture from how he behaves. in fact, i'd say that the visceral disgust of his subordinates at the idea of using - becoming - a yeerkbane supports the idea that killing the unhosted is some deeply weird serial killer poo poo to a yeerk That last part would also make sense considering what his pool twin got up to in his free time.
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 03:08 |
|
Animorphs-Book 19-The Departure, Chapter 13quote:It rained all through the night till four or five A.M. But when we stepped outside into the morning, the sun was coming up in a brilliant, clear blue sky. That's the thing. Karen can't answer. Chapter 14 quote:We didn’t move very fast with Karen’s bad ankle. It gave me a chance to look around. See, now that's interesting. quote:I was so stunned I stopped walking. “What? There are Yeerks who are against all this?” The leopard is really kind of a buzzkill, isn't it? But the Yeerk asks a good question. What would you do if you thought the only way you could be not trapped in a weak, defenseless, blind body was to take over another mind?
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 04:15 |
|
quote:I looked at her curious face. Her very human face. Her little girl face. I knew what lived inside her head. I knew she would deliver me up to Visser Three the first chance she got. Not quite. What they did with Jake was a unique circumstance - nobody else knew the Yeerk had got into him, it was missing presumed KIA. Karen is an established controller. The Yeerks will realise if she's not a controller anymore. Since she's also seen Cassie morph, they can never permit her to be infested again. So they either have to kill the innocent child witness too (which was bleak even in Breaking Bad) or establish some kind of ad hoc witness protection program. Send her off to live with the Chee or something. quote:The leopard is really kind of a buzzkill, isn't it? But the Yeerk asks a good question. What would you do if you thought the only way you could be not trapped in a weak, defenseless, blind body was to take over another mind? Hmmmm... if only there existed technology to allow one to radically transform one's own body without hurting anybody else... to "morph," as it were... I used to think it was one of the biggest missed opportunities of the series, that this solution which was right at the core of the story all along doesn't really end up being part of the conclusion (at least not for the Yeerks). But thinking of it now I think it's actually a good commentary on war, which is also at the core of the story; that maybe things could have gone a different way at the beginning, but now there's just too much water under the bridge and intergenerational hatred for the Andalites to countenance that.
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 08:13 |
|
freebooter posted:Not quite. What they did with Jake was a unique circumstance - nobody else knew the Yeerk had got into him, it was missing presumed KIA. Karen is an established controller. The Yeerks will realise if she's not a controller anymore. Since she's also seen Cassie morph, they can never permit her to be infested again. So they either have to kill the innocent child witness too (which was bleak even in Breaking Bad) or establish some kind of ad hoc witness protection program. Send her off to live with the Chee or something. Sucks for the actual living human child, but on the other hand being forced into hiding is better than her current status quo, so
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 08:45 |
|
Fuschia tude posted:Yeah, I don't remember exactly how Karen is resolved in this book, but that is an established way out for them. Erek already provides the example of an "infested" person who ambles down to the Yeerk pool every three days and forcefield-projects a hologram of him letting his Yeerk out to play; the Chee already regularly portray a person from childhood to old age, then take on a new character to start the cycle over again; so they absolutely could do everything they'd need to protect Karen and maintain her as a Controller without tipping off the Yeerks that she'd been compromised. Pity, this is one book too early for them to give Karen morphing powers and turn her into their own little child soldier... It's not like (later series spoilers) they have a problem with that by the end. I think it's even Cassie's idea who they end up using.
|
# ? Apr 1, 2021 17:50 |
|
Animorphs-Book 19-The Departure, Chapter 15quote:The leopard flew. I mean, I assume the Yeerk doesn't want to be eaten either. quote:At least if I charged, the leopard would have to let her go to fight me. Marco to the rescue! Which also makes this whole situation a lot more complicated. Chapter 16 quote:<How’s that for a last minute rescue?> Marco crowed. <I am the cavalry. I am nine-one-one. Now all we have to do is figure out how to explain to that little girl that a gorilla and a wolf are working together.> Uh oh. Also, somebody asked a few days ago if this book was the first time that a Yeerk had suspected that the Animorphs were humans. Chapman and Tom (or their Yeerks, at least), discussed the possibility in an earlier book, but came to the conclusion that Visser Three probably wouldn't believe them and would murder them for bringing it up.
|
# ? Apr 2, 2021 03:48 |
|
Fuschia tude posted:Yeah, I don't remember exactly how Karen is resolved in this book, but that is an established way out for them. Erek already provides the example of an "infested" person who ambles down to the Yeerk pool every three days and forcefield-projects a hologram of him letting his Yeerk out to play; the Chee already regularly portray a person from childhood to old age, then take on a new character to start the cycle over again; so they absolutely could do everything they'd need to protect Karen and maintain her as a Controller without tipping off the Yeerks that she'd been compromised. I don't think the Chee would like it. They've spent 10,000 years hiding their true identity from humanity, only revealing it to the Animorphs because Marco realized Erek was an android. They don't like the Yeerks, but at the same time, I don't think they'd agree to shelter a bunch of escaped human hosts indefinitely. It's too much of a risk for them for too little benefit. Now, if the Yeerks had Dog Controllers, they'd definitely save the puppies, but that's the difference between dogs and humans for the Chee. Dogs are IMPORTANT.
|
# ? Apr 2, 2021 03:53 |
It's really, really hard to argue with Marco here. Christ, Cassie's lucky he doesn't waste the kid on the spot. There is of course more to the story, but knowing what he knows now,...
|
|
# ? Apr 2, 2021 04:03 |
|
Epicurius posted:I mean, I assume the Yeerk doesn't want to be eaten either. Actually, do we know what happens yet if a host dies? Can the Yeerk still get out?
|
# ? Apr 2, 2021 06:24 |
|
Fuschia tude posted:Actually, do we know what happens yet if a host dies? Can the Yeerk still get out? I think it's been seen before by this point in the books but not really focused on, but the Yeerk has a very limited window to bail out of the dying host before system shock kills them too. Most Yeerks aren't quick enough on the draw to disconnect before they go down with the host as well, especially in cases of instant, traumatic death.
|
# ? Apr 2, 2021 07:58 |
|
|
# ? Apr 27, 2024 16:44 |
|
Fuschia tude posted:Actually, do we know what happens yet if a host dies? Can the Yeerk still get out? I don't know if we've been specifically told that Yeerks die when their hosts die, but we've seen Yeerks abandon ship when their hosts are near death like Visser 3 after he got bit by Ax's rattlesnake, so it's probably safe to assume they do. Otherwise it would probably be safer to stay put and wait for the body to be recovered by other Yeerks.
|
# ? Apr 2, 2021 07:59 |