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Thump! posted:If Mao was a tankie then load up the main gun tovarisch because I’m one too
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Apr 3, 2021 16:12
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wonder what the common thread with all those people in the picture being smeared as tankies. maybe their being all successful leftist leaders who actually accomplished poo poo in their own right? :thinking:
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Apr 3, 2021 16:12
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:they’re anarchists, op, which is the only remaining way to call yourself a liberal while still shocking your parents I'm an anarchist...and it really was my mother that pointed me towards it. But I'm Greek so things are a little different here...XD
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Apr 3, 2021 16:16
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i'm an eagleologist i specialize in knowing why the eagles could have ended lord of the rings in about two hours, before the hobbit party was even over with
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Apr 3, 2021 16:24
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inferis posted:i still don’t know what a tankie is The original meaning of "tankie" was someone who still supported the Soviet Union even after they... sent in the tanks (hence the term) to crush the Hungarian uprising of 1956. This was supposed to have some critical inflection point in leftism because Hungary was an ostensibly communist nation at the time, and yet the USSR still saw fit to bring the hammer down on them. The more colloquial and contemporary use of "tankie" has been as a pejortive against people who ostensibly support so-called "authoritarian" governments, especially the PRC, but claim that they do so for left-wing/anti-imperialist reasons. The accusation is that while the US might be bad, you still shouldn't support China (or Cuba, or the DPRK, and so on) because they are also bad. In this sense, it's also somewhat ironic that "tankie", when used this way, is often made to be synonymous with "Stalinist", given that by the time the tanks were sent in to Hungary, that was already during the premiership of Khrushchev, and also after his "Secret Speech" denouncing Stalin and initiating de-Stalinization.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:25
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The reason all these fascism=communism takes exist is that philosophy as a concept has been ground into dust by mass media. One side might plow tanks through and over the petty bougie who are fighting back because they're terrified that they won't have an underclass to perform medical experiments on, no more elite private schools and fraternities, no more churches to stroke their ego as the protagonists of reality, no more exclusionary hiring practices to keep undesirables poor, no and no more servants to wipe their kid's rear end anymore. One side plows tanks over people just living their lives, just doing their jobs, so someone with more money or real estate can have even more money or real estate. To the liberal mind these are the same thing because "ends don't justify the means." Just out there shaming a boy hungering for a well made omelet. I guess might as well never try to improve society then, because the rich and powerful won't roll over without a fight.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:26
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https://twitter.com/queeralamode/status/1378064749707939844
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Apr 3, 2021 16:27
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Dixon Chisholm posted:It's what libs and anarchists call people left of them. That's it. getting called tankie, nazbol, strasserite, class reductionist etc just means you've annoyed a democrat who misperceives themselves as a leftist, and that crime makes you a literal fascist
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Apr 3, 2021 16:30
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You know who else came from a space of activism and organizing? That's right, Hitler
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Apr 3, 2021 16:34
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What the gently caress do words even mean anymore? Like, what do these fuckers think "left" means? Is it when you put a pride sticker on your Tesla or something? Seriously, what it's their definition? No I wil never watch breadtube and find out for myself.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:36
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Organ Fiend posted:What the gently caress do words even mean anymore? left means 'good' that's it
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Apr 3, 2021 16:39
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Organ Fiend posted:What the gently caress do words even mean anymore? It means good hth I am good so therefore the media I like is good therefore I am a leftist and they are leftist Please note that this means watching Blade(1998) is praxis
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Apr 3, 2021 16:39
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I'm still loling the concept of calling yourself an anarchist which enthusiasticly supporting either one of the two most powerful establishment political parties on earth. Like seriously what do words even mean? Like just be a liberal there are tons of them and they have all the power.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:40
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'left' exists in opposition to 'right'. that's it. that's the ideology.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:41
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witchy posted:It means good hth Watching Blade is praxis tho tbh
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Apr 3, 2021 16:42
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Thump! posted:Watching Blade is praxis tho tbh Party meeting next Friday comrade bring snacks
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Apr 3, 2021 16:43
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Some Guy TT posted:sorry doomtrain you arent allowed to know whos complaining about you because youre going to send out the cspam mafia to cyberstalk them across the internet this very real thing that all of us fellow cspammers have done countless times in the past i love to stalk and doxx my forums enemies, who definitely exist
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Apr 3, 2021 16:44
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Reality Protester posted:'left' exists in opposition to 'right'. that's it. that's the ideology. Greenwald had a take about this a while ago in that the "culture war" aspects of politics become such a battleground (mostly because the economics are so out-of-reach for the left) that people end up either being identified by other people as, or identify themselves as, being on the left, outside of any actual material or ideological opinions that would or should put them there.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:50
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Dante80 posted:I'm an anarchist...and it really was my mother that pointed me towards it. bemused by the idea of anarchism in the most racist country in europe
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Apr 3, 2021 16:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:The original meaning of "tankie" was someone who still supported the Soviet Union even after they... sent in the tanks (hence the term) to crush the Hungarian uprising of 1956. This was supposed to have some critical inflection point in leftism because Hungary was an ostensibly communist nation at the time, and yet the USSR still saw fit to bring the hammer down on them. it's associated with stalin because he sent tanks to destroy the final form of liberalism
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Apr 3, 2021 16:51
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:bemused by the idea of anarchism in the most racist country in europe  Theres plenty of anarchists in England tho?
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Apr 3, 2021 16:54
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Imagine if leftists worked together instead of constantly comparing dick sizes over whose specific ideology is the most morally sound *is killed by the CIA*
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Apr 3, 2021 16:55
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:bemused by the idea of anarchism in the most racist country in europe I wouldn't say that Greece is the most racist one, but it really is up there with the worst of them! Especially this last decade. Scratch that. We are the worst.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:02
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:bemused by the idea of anarchism in the most racist country in europe I don’t usually use forums or Reddit, I usually just post comments on Ancap blogs like Molyneux or Cantwell’s blog, but they didn’t seem appropriate places to post my story. So here goes, I just wanted to share this with all of you. Nov 3 I flew to Europe for a Eurotrip type tour. Not a guide or packaged deal, just going around by myself. I paid for half of the trip with the wages I earned over the last two years, my dad paid for the other half. I am 19, I guess that is normal starting college and all. (Before that I worked for my dad’s company part time, so I guess you could say he paid for all of it, lol). I did France and then Italy and then Greece next. I am an Ancap so I wanted to see anarchists in these places. Yes, I know they are different kinds of “anarchists” and not really full anarchists like us. I went to an anarchist book store in Italy and it had a lot of English books, but no Rothbard or Ancap. Like I said, I expected that, not a surprise. I went to Greece, which everyone knows is famous for its revolutionary anarchism, its economic crisis and everything going on right now. Here I found directions for a local anarchist center. I went and didn’t see anybody, but it was covered in graffiti, mostly in Greek so I couldn’t read it. Whatever, I started taking pictures. Then some people came out and confronted me. This should have been my first warning sign something was not right, because photography is not a crime. They were not violent, but they were not friendly, like asking who I was, what I wanted. They all spoke good English actually. Not uncommon in Greece. I said I was a tourist and an anarchist and I just wanted to take pictures. Then they got friendly and told me I should have asked first (but pictures are no NAP violation so I don’t know why, but I didn’t say anything) and they invited me inside. We hung out for a while and smoked hash (there is no good dank in Europe as you might find out like in Cali, everyone smokes hash with tobacco which isn’t as cool as it sounds). We started talking about politics and anarchism. I was trying to talk about the state, they were like yeah no doubt the state was bad. But they wanted to talk about capitalism, capitalism this and that. This is when we started to get into a debate. I told them that what they called capitalism is different from the free market. They said capitalism is free markets. And I said I agreed. That is what I am saying. Real capitalism is free markets. And they said yes, that is what we are trying to get rid of. And I said no, but we don’t even have that right now. We need more free markets. And everyone at the same time was like “nooo” we are anarchists, we are against capitalism. Anarchists oppose capitalism. And I said but not anarcho-capitalists. Anarcho-capitalists are the anarchists who support capitalism. I had a fanny pack (yeah, lame I know) for my camera and in that I had this yellow and black bowtie (also super lame, it was a joke but I wasnt wearing it). And I said look, these are the Ancap colors, yellow and black, like versus the communist red and black. Well, these guys had a lot of red and black in the building already so I thought they would get it. I think that is when it started to get a really bad vibe, really tense in the air. The free market thing was funny, we disagreed but I think they thought I was just confused. Everyone was uncomfortable now. Then someone said markets wont work with democracy. And I said exactly, that’s it, democracy is against anarchism. And they kind of agreed, and said yes, we don’t have real democracy, just governments, and we needed more democracy. I said no, we need less democracy, democracy is the enemy. And we need to end democracy to have anarchy. Then they were all like “noooo” again. You know that thing people do in groups when everyone all says “nooo” or expresses some disapproval at the same time. And one of them said “but we do want to stop democracy” and then they kind of spoke back and forth in Greek. I didn’t really understand it. And they asked me what I meant. So I said okay, I had the floor, I was going to tell them about ancapism. And I tried to explain to them some Rothbard and Hoppe. I said the natural order in anarchy is that the best rise to the top, the market picks who is the best. They compete and are peaceful. They said what do we want instead of anarchy. I said we want private owners to own their own land and businesses, and to employ people. They said that is what we have now. I said no, it would be even better. One of the guys said it was like feudalism. And I said it is not feudalism. Eventually one of the guys spoke up and I thought he was Greek, but he spoke English perfectly so he may have not been. He said he knew what anarcho-capitalism was and that we were basically fascists. He asked me if I thought everything should be private. And I said yes. And he asked me if I thought people were unequal. And I told him yes. And that not everyone would have equal rights. I said everyone has the right to own property and not be done aggression against. But that not everyone had to be treated equally by the owners. He said what about immigrants and racism. And I said that would not happen in a free market, but yes property owners could be racist if they wanted to. They had to respect property. Then he called me a fascist again, and someone else said I was a fascist. And then they basically all started shouting fascist at me, and one of them grabbed me by the wrists. They pulled me out the door, it was up three floors, and basically drug me down the stairs on my back. It hurt really bad and I remember yelling “you’re breaking the NAP” and things like that. “Stop initiating force against me.” Then they kicked me around on the ground in the hallway, before they took my camera and threw me outside. I was crying and stuff, I just sat there. I was in shock because it was so sudden. Looking back there were warning signs though. I think they felt bad for me and gave the camera back, but when I looked later they stole the memory card with all of my Greek photos. So they initiated force and theft. They broke the NAP. I knew the left anarchists were not real anarchists, but I never knew they would do something that bad. I wasnt seriously hurt, just kicked around a little, lots of bruises and little cuts. I am fine guys so don’t worry. Just needed to share.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:06
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lol I love that old story
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Apr 3, 2021 17:11
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greece.txt is always a fun read, but almost certainly fiction. I mean, it's possible that this guy went to Nosotros (judging from the number of floors and all) and managed to piss off everyone sitting down for a beer or two, but people here tend to generally not drag people down the stairs like that. The worst thing that would have happened would be to send him away to cool off and eat a souvlaki or two next door at Kavouras. XD
Dante80 has issued a correction as of 17:19 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 17:17
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Someone saying "I'm an anarchist" sounds like someone saying "I'm a suicide bomber" like if that's true what the gently caress are you doing here? Do you need some gas and a lighter? A new blade for your angle grinder? Why the gently caress is there running water, did you not drive over the hydrants on your way here?
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Apr 3, 2021 17:19
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Minion of Freya posted:Someone saying "I'm an anarchist" sounds like someone saying "I'm a suicide bomber" like if that's true what the gently caress are you doing here? Do you need some gas and a lighter? A new blade for your angle grinder? Why the gently caress is there running water, did you not drive over the hydrants on your way here? Good point, we do live in a society
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Apr 3, 2021 17:22
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Jimmy Dore was right about AOC. Even people in this thread didn’t want to believe it.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:22
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If I’m being honest though I have no idea what some one means when they say they are an anarchist at this point. So many strains of it now and starting to feel like a catch all for some.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:23
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Raccooon posted:If I’m being honest though I have no idea what some one means when they say they are an anarchist at this point. Yeah it's pretty much left but not ml which spans a dizzying array of ideologies with varying degrees of coherence
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Apr 3, 2021 17:25
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Raccooon posted:If I’m being honest though I have no idea what some one means when they say they are an anarchist at this point. Around my parts (at least here in Athens) we mainly. 1. Beat fascists if available 2. Throw stuff at police 3. Help refugees Ideology wise, you can get a pretty wide spectrum of leftists involved cooperating and somewhat self-identifying with that tag. Which makes for excellent - if somewhat heated - beer discussions about policy etc. But that is a pretty particular strain of activism, in one country. Dante80 has issued a correction as of 17:30 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 17:27
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Minion of Freya posted:The reason all these fascism=communism takes exist is that philosophy as a concept has been ground into dust by mass media. yeah I think this is right. using power is anathema to these people and if you talk to the biden supporting anarchists (lol typing that hurt my brain) like they agree that Biden doing poo poo like ending the filibuster to push through good poo poo isn't what they should do because republicans will have power. it's literally the same exact thing democrats believe because they are democrats lol lol anarchists basically
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Apr 3, 2021 17:28
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Dante80 posted:Around my parts (at least here in Athens) we mainly. that's all pretty cool maybe it's just people that identify as anarchists online that I don't like (present company excluded)
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Apr 3, 2021 17:29
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CSPAM anarchists: probably pretty cool Twitter anarchists: lol run away
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Apr 3, 2021 17:30
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also breadtube is 100% an OP. Not necessarily like a CIA OP or something but like finding out that all those twitter accounts with red glowing eyes are paid by the DNC will be the least surprising thing ever.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:32
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I have respect for Dante80 and other anarchists who are actually ideologically committed to anarchism as a political programme and a left-tendency tracing back to Bakuninism. What tends to throw a spanner in the works are people who come to anarchism (or "libertarian socialism", as with Chomsky) as a means to be able to identify as leftists while hoping to dodge associations with "Stalin and Mao killed a gorillion people" - these people are liberals who don't want to admit it, and have bought into Western propaganda in the first place with regards to actually-existing Socialism.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:33
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Raccooon posted:If I’m being honest though I have no idea what some one means when they say they are an anarchist at this point. It means removing all hierarchy, and then adding back hierarchy as you decide you need it, until you're back to neoliberal society as we know it in a week or so, except now you have a lot of glass to sweep up. The one anarchist I knew actually abandoned the label because he became aware that there was no part of his ideology that didn't just fall under liberalism Flying-PCP has issued a correction as of 17:37 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 17:35
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:they’re anarchists, op, which is the only remaining way to call yourself a liberal while still shocking your parents It sucks because now I need to find a new way to describe my bone deep hatred of hierarchical power structures
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Apr 3, 2021 17:35
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yeah tbf I don't know a ton about anarchism I just know what I see. maybe it's the "libertarian socialists" I have issue with. It feels like libertarian socialist is the 2020s's version of the 2000s's "socially liberal but fiscally conservative"
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Apr 3, 2021 17:36
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