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Can someone defending these nerfs tell me why a non-competitive single player/co-op gave should ever have a nerfs like this? Build diversity doesn't help because there still isn't any. Please I really want to hear why a non-competitive game needs these nerfs.
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Apr 9, 2021 11:39
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My tank build do almost no damage at all, but people don't know before the expedition, only at the end they can see I do only 1/9 of the damage they do. My gamestyle is to click "matchmaking" for two hours, until It find somebody actually doing expeditions. Then leech on that guy. Usually glass canons. I use to play on my commodore 64 with a tape. Loading games was awnful, often the games would load wrong, you had to redo the loading again. It was not rare to try to load the same game for 2 hours until It finnaly loaded correctly. Not much has changed. 
Tei fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Apr 9, 2021 |
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Apr 9, 2021 11:42
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Tei posted:I use to play on my commodore 64 with a tape. Loading games was awnful, often the games would load wrong, you had to redo the loading again. It was not rare to try to load the same game for 2 hours until It finnaly loaded correctly. the main thing that changed was a dev couldn't patch your game to be less fun back then also less seizures from loading
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Apr 9, 2021 11:55
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:the main thing that changed was a dev couldn't patch your game to be less fun back then Not a dev, no. A sibling on the other hand...
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Apr 9, 2021 12:59
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I watched a video on YouTube that said you do still get a legendary for doing all the hunts / bounties / historian quests. They said the patch notes were just badly worded. I have not tested this myself. They said devs just fixed the exploit people were using in multiplayer
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Apr 9, 2021 13:03
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fadam posted:Has there ever been a game where they did this? Three builds that massively over perform everything else and trivialize content and instead of just nerfing them they buff a shitload of other builds all at once to make up for it? Seems like a good way to let game balance get away from you. Ok I’m relieved to see this because “...buff everything else, don’t nerf the obvious outliers I’ve relied on to cheese this game!” has been this week’s Preferred Complaint of the Bearded Neck Clan and I keep thinking - when have people seen this happen before and why do they act like it’s a normal balance response? It seems crazy impractical and to my understanding, it must be because no game company does it right?
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Apr 9, 2021 13:05
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Warframe does it sometimes. The average power level these days is hugely ahead of where it was five years ago.
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Apr 9, 2021 13:13
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I mean you don't have to go for the extremes, you can do both. The complaint is that they are nerfing the best strategy but it's still the best strategy because they haven't buffed anything else or nerfed the enemies. So people will still use it, the game will just be less fun for those people.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Apr 9, 2021 |
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Apr 9, 2021 13:14
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SalTheBard posted:I watched a video on YouTube that said you do still get a legendary for doing all the hunts / bounties / historian quests. They said the patch notes were just badly worded. I have not tested this myself. They said devs just fixed the exploit people were using in multiplayer I just did the final hunt yesterday and still got one. The exploit fixed was where you finished all of them but didn't turn in the quest, then joined someone else's game who hasn't finished them, then you got a legendary for every turn in.
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Apr 9, 2021 13:16
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Raged posted:Can someone defending these nerfs tell me why a non-competitive single player/co-op gave should ever have a nerfs like this? Build diversity doesn't help because there still isn't any. I’m not defending the nerfs as much as I am rejecting the notion of buffing everything else, but here goes... The devs probably didn’t plan on or want the game being this easy. That’s it. It’s not complicated. There are combinations in this game that, combined with poopsockers playing this game 8+ hours a day, lead to dudes soloing the final boss. The game was intended to be a multiplayer class-based shooter, I imagine they didn’t have “dudes with massively OP build combos that didn’t occur to us until 500k people playing the game at once hiveminded it out soloing the big baddie in a week” in mind. It’s obvious that the server issues have ultimately led to this discontent and that I won’t defend, they hosed up big time there. But if people were able to group easily and you still had dudes with infinite condition ammo minigun builds, but now there’s three of them, and they’re melting every expedition with no effort, you’d see more complaints that the game is too easy. So instead, imagine they’re trying to balance the game for the state it will be in whenever they get the server issues fixed, and there are more often than not 3 dudes in a party with decent-to-good builds (which allows that diversity everyone says they care about while still just copying meta builds from the internet) instead of one guy with a crowdsourced OP god build smashing everything.
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Apr 9, 2021 13:19
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Like holy poo poo imagine the internet discovered a ring+sword combo in Dark Souls that you could obtain 2/3 of the way through the fuckin game that rendered the whole rest of the game a cakewalk. If that was honestly an unintended synergy of the items, why wouldn’t the devs nerf it? “DS1 isn’t a competitive game, so why not let people easily walk over the last 1/3 of the content?”
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Apr 9, 2021 13:24
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Raged posted:Can someone defending these nerfs tell me why a non-competitive single player/co-op gave should ever have a nerfs like this? Build diversity doesn't help because there still isn't any. Non-competitive games receive gameplay adjustments/nerfs all the time lol. Off the top of my head the new Spider-Man, the most casual baby game of all time, had some suit powers nerfed because they made combat way too easy.
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Apr 9, 2021 13:25
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The other funny thing about all this "but y u nerf single player game!!?" stuff is that goons ALSO love to use whatever completely OP thing they find to truck through a single player game, then complain that it trivialized the game AND that they were "forced" to use it.
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Apr 9, 2021 13:35
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Hulk Krogan posted:The other funny thing about all this "but y u nerf single player game!!?" stuff is that goons ALSO love to use whatever completely OP thing they find to truck through a single player game, then complain that it trivialized the game AND that they were "forced" to use it. Look buddy, if i don't use the overpowered thing in my non competitive experience, the other guy will use it and that makes me feel bad even though i just stated that its non competitive. This thread is doing a fantastic job of convincing me that everyone who buys all of the looter shooter games and incessantly complains is broke brained
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Apr 9, 2021 13:39
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When one build is so incredibly OP compared to the others a nerf does make sense, even in a non-competitive game like this. However in this case they should've nerfed the ammo powers AND buffed the AP builds. Also change how Expeditions work so time isn't the main factor(and thus tank builds aren't useless).
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Apr 9, 2021 13:48
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I definitely think there's an issue if you're not allowed to be a big chungus and play competitive levels This hurts the nerd on a very basic level
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Apr 9, 2021 13:51
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I played this game post-patch and had fun. What am I doing wrong?
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Apr 9, 2021 14:12
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Lumpy posted:I played this game post-patch and had fun. What am I doing wrong? Just keep going through loading screens and opening and closing menus until it crashes.
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Apr 9, 2021 14:13
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Pandaal posted:Like holy poo poo imagine the internet discovered a ring+sword combo in Dark Souls that you could obtain 2/3 of the way through the fuckin game that rendered the whole rest of the game a cakewalk. If that was honestly an unintended synergy of the items, why wouldn’t the devs nerf it? “DS1 isn’t a competitive game, so why not let people easily walk over the last 1/3 of the content?” I agree with you mostly but I can think of several items like that in Dark Souls. I think only one ever got nerfed cause it was way too crazy.
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Apr 9, 2021 14:13
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I'm glad I got to use my dumb build to farm enough set pieces and other gear to make a proper burning man
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Apr 9, 2021 14:14
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SalTheBard posted:I watched a video on YouTube that said you do still get a legendary for doing all the hunts / bounties / historian quests. They said the patch notes were just badly worded. I have not tested this myself. They said devs just fixed the exploit people were using in multiplayer You can still do this. One way is to reset them all and then do all but one each at wt1. Then set the wt to the highest you can and complete the tenth quest for each of them. Turn them all in and the rewards for all quests will be for that wt.
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Apr 9, 2021 14:18
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Since this game is poo poo now should I buy Division 2? I thinks it’s only $30.
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Apr 9, 2021 14:32
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If you're interested in buying more games to complain about i'm fairly sure you can get Anthem on gamepass 
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Apr 9, 2021 14:34
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screech on the beach posted:Since this game is poo poo now should I buy Division 2? I thinks it’s only $30.
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Apr 9, 2021 14:37
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Hulk Krogan posted:The other funny thing about all this "but y u nerf single player game!!?" stuff is that goons ALSO love to use whatever completely OP thing they find to truck through a single player game, then complain that it trivialized the game AND that they were "forced" to use it. Yeah this does a way better job of getting across what I was trying to say about build diversity. People complain about a lack of “viable” builds when there are actually a ton of fun builds that suit a number of different play styles that will get the job done, but if there’s one build per class that’s head and shoulders above the rest that will become the only acceptable one. So if you buff everything up to that standard you’re catering to the maintaining power of the best build right now to nerf the overall difficulty of the game, vs nerfing a few problematic items that will be forgotten about long-term when the game more closely resembles the vision the devs had for endgame.
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Apr 9, 2021 14:56
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jabro posted:You can still do this. One way is to reset them all and then do all but one each at wt1. Then set the wt to the highest you can and complete the tenth quest for each of them. Turn them all in and the rewards for all quests will be for that wt. My understanding is you get the legendary only once, regardless of questline reset. Is that not the case?
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Apr 9, 2021 15:21
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The wording is confusing but I think now you get a legendary each time you complete all ten hunts. Previously, there was an exploit where you could get legendaries for completing each of the individual hunts, and that's what got patched.
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Apr 9, 2021 15:37
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Kaddish posted:My understanding is you get the legendary only once, regardless of questline reset. Is that not the case? ZombyDog fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Apr 9, 2021 |
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Apr 9, 2021 15:44
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I see, I thought the uproar was that to fix the exploit, they changed it to only release the legendary once. Good to know we can redo them.
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Apr 9, 2021 15:46
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Mango Polo posted:The Outrider's Legacy quest is apparently wonky and now grants you 10 legendaries instead of 1 on first-time completion. Well he did say they were stockpiling weapons. I just assumed 10 legendaries was party of the story.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:03
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Mango Polo posted:The Outrider's Legacy quest is apparently wonky and now grants you 10 legendaries instead of 1 on first-time completion. Sheeeit, guess I better beeline this quest I just finished the Quarry segment of it.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:09
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I only got one legendary when running with a new character (although second on my account). Ah well!
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Apr 9, 2021 16:32
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It's weird, asking people to post their trickster CT15s really quickly ends balance discussions. I can't figure out why!
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Apr 9, 2021 16:56
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Deofuta posted:I only got one legendary when running with a new character (although second on my account). Ah well! I think the latest maintenance fixed it. Ah well.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:02
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let’s take a case study, borderlands 2. it had a mechanic called slag which made everything affected by it take double damage, it was extremely broken. instead of doing the reasonable thing and nerfing it they instead balanced all additional content around it and suddenly what was once overpowered became mandatory. you were no longer being rewarded for using it, you were penalized for not doing it.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:22
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watho posted:let’s take a case study, borderlands 2. it had a mechanic called slag which made everything affected by it take double damage, it was extremely broken. instead of doing the reasonable thing and nerfing it they instead balanced all additional content around it and suddenly what was once overpowered became mandatory. you were no longer being rewarded for using it, you were penalized for not doing it. Ah, the Iceborne wallbang method of balance
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Apr 9, 2021 17:46
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Imagine you as a Systems Designer for the game and you have a tuning target(s). Said target(s) might be expressed as TTK against an arbitrary target in arbitrary conditions, or maybe DPS, or maybe something else. The entire experience and all it's numbers are setup to accommodate this designed curve. Imagine your game is released to the public and it turns out that a handful of builds are more than 2x off of the target. Now, if you are reddit, you scream 'buff everything else', but what reddit fails to understand is that the goal here is not to make the kits equal, but rather to land as close to the designed target as possible. If you add a zero to everything, the game quickly ceases being a game as you casually one-shot the world. What you actually have to do is bring the systems and their associated numbers closer to the target, whatever that means. If you are unwilling to nerf things that are in extreme violation of your target, well...watho posted:let’s take a case study, borderlands 2. it had a mechanic called slag which made everything affected by it take double damage, it was extremely broken. instead of doing the reasonable thing and nerfing it they instead balanced all additional content around it and suddenly what was once overpowered became mandatory. you were no longer being rewarded for using it, you were penalized for not doing it.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:01
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:Imagine you as a Systems Designer for the game and you have a tuning target(s). Said target(s) might be expressed as TTK against an arbitrary target in arbitrary conditions, or maybe DPS, or maybe something else. The entire experience and all it's numbers are setup to accommodate this designed curve. Imagine your game is released to the public and it turns out that a handful of builds are more than 2x off of the target.... ...and most other builds are nowhere near the target - and middle tree for all classes is non viable and really you have about 7 working builds across 4 classes of which 3 are just bullet builds. Nah man...I can't imagine being that bad of a system designer. Nerfs need to happen sure, but there is a fundamental design failure here as well given that the entire end game is a dps check.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:35
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It's one patch released a week after release holy gently caress calm down
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Apr 9, 2021 18:49
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ZombyDog posted:That's not the case. You complete the 10 hunts and on handing in the 10th you get a Legendary. From this point you are able to reset the hunts, and when you hand in the 10th and you get another Legendary. This was the intended experience and remains unchanged from before the update. The bit that was fixed was that in co-op it could be engineered so that a person would get a legendary for every hunt handed in by the host. This was not intended and has been fixed. PCF then said that "Hey, we've closed this unintended loophole but we aren't going to take away anyone's Legendaries if they took advantage of it". This led to a) people complaining about the bug being fixed because they could no longer exploit it b) people complaining that the exploiters weren't being punished and c) people complaining because they didn't use the exploit but would have now knowing that the exploiters weren't being punished. Oh that's good then. I still want a real balance pass to buff other skills. I'm not even using blighted rounds on my techno, just Tool of Destruction and the two turrets and then sniping everything I can.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:52
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