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Anita Dickinme posted:Are we sure if Hoskins is actually dead? We saw Rhodey was unconscious and unresponsive when he was injured in Civil War. I understand the way Walker acted comes off that way but Tony blasted Falcon and Friday even told him that Rhodes was still alive and Tony’s a decent guy. Walker took his pulse, and then got enraged. I doubt he'd leave him for revenge if he was injured.
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Apr 11, 2021 18:20
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Thundercracker posted:
Ah fair enough. I guess I missed him actually checking.
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Apr 11, 2021 18:44
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Apologies if this has been answered before, but are John and Lemar just ordinary people?
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Apr 11, 2021 19:05
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Party Boat posted:TV taught me that we all have a balloon full of red corn syrup on the back of our heads and if you fall backwards and it pops you die I mean... I’ve got a family member currently in the hospital who fell off their bike (while wearing a MIPS helmet!) and hit the ground in just the right way to cause a TBI, and this time last week we still weren’t sure they would survive. It was an unbelievable amount of blood from someone just flipping over the handlebars. So yeah, if a super-soldier kicks you across the room and into a pillar and you’re just some schmuck with paintball armor on you’re gonna die.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:08
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That must have been really scary and I hope your family member makes a full recovery. Ironically I now feel like a Big Mean Jerk for being flip about something like that.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:11
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Electric Phantasm posted:Apologies if this has been answered before, but are John and Lemar just ordinary people? John isn't anymore since he's bending bars into pretzels and stuff but prior to this episode he was and Lemar was as well.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:12
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Party Boat posted:That must have been really scary and I hope your family member makes a full recovery. Ironically I now feel like a Big Mean Jerk for being flip about something like that. Oh I wasn’t trying to criticize you or anything, it’s just one of those weird instances where the kind of poo poo you’d see in tv/movies ended up being pretty close to reality. Brains are weird, you can be shot in the head and wind up (mostly) fine or just fall wrong and end up a vegetable.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:15
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Party Boat posted:That must have been really scary and I hope your family member makes a full recovery. Ironically I now feel like a Big Mean Jerk for being flip about something like that. I used to be an EMT. You’re “ballon of corn syrup in my head that can pop at any moment” is fairly true.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:23
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I mean... I’ve got a family member currently in the hospital who fell off their bike (while wearing a MIPS helmet!) and hit the ground in just the right way to cause a TBI, and this time last week we still weren’t sure they would survive. It was an unbelievable amount of blood from someone just flipping over the handlebars. I hope they’ll be alright. One of my riding buddies was also wearing a MIPS helmet but when he went down it still split open at just around 45 MPH so the helmet definitely isn’t always going to save a rider. Alternatively I saw another friend fall off his bike going 100+ with just a helmet and got right back up with nothing worse than some road rash. It’s insane what major trama we can live through and then as you said we can just fall weird and end up a vegetable. It’s TV so anything is possible. I didn’t think they’d kill off Battlestar so quick. I just looked him up right before I watched the episode to read what he’s all about in the comics so it really threw me off guard.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:40
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Alchenar posted:I can't tell if it's deliberate or not that Daniel Brühl is just dominating every scene he's in. The guy needs to be given much more work. He plays really well as Niki Lauda against Chris Hemsworth's James Hunt in Rush.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:52
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Rockstar Massacre posted:Asking Karli for remorse is a big ask because she's essentially a civilian fighting a global regime, even with superpowers. holding her to same standard as the organization she fights or any other character is a joke because of the sheer power imbalance. I KNEW this take would appear at some point. Newsflash on the actual text of the story: Karli hasn't been running circles around everyone because of her dirty fighting and willingness to kill, she's been doing it because she's earned loyalty from an entire community of supporters who protect her and keep her fight supplied, and she accomplished that with wealth redistribution and non-lethal force exclusively. Switching from noble methods to THE ONLY LANGUAGE THEY UNDERSTAND has accomplished nothing for her except to get one of her people killed, her serum lost, and turned someone who wanted to help her into a direct adversary because she threatened family members. Brilliant work. Karli already found a different way that works, she abandoned it for personal reasons and its undermined her entire movement. Or at least it had undermined it until US Agent escalated in response to her escalation, and now we're on a crash course to The Troubles, Superhero Edition. Zemo's take does land, she admits it with her own mouth, it just doesn't land completely because he looks at her and only sees an Ubermensch, in the truly Nietzschean meaning of the term, a superior being who is out to impose its morality on the world through force. Sam still sees the human being behind the powers in a way Zemo isn't capable of so he knows that's not what she really is, its just what she's letting herself become. If this show doesn't bring up Killmonger I'll be shocked, because that is EXACTLY who she's letting herself get turned into. Its why Sam uses the exact words he does to start the process of convincing her: if you change the world by killing innocent people, even if those people are complicit in the machine you're trying to bring down, its not better, its just different. Is that a naïve view of revolution? Yeah, even Sam basically says so, but this is a superhero story, its a morality play. If you don't want ANY naivety or optimism in how big societal issues can be addressed, go read Punisher.
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Apr 11, 2021 20:13
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Man I wish they made walker more of a patriot obsessed with the mission instead of the "man out of his league leading to resentment" they went with. USAgent from the comics would have taken that serum back to America for r and d
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Apr 11, 2021 20:34
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Terror Sweat posted:Man I wish they made walker more of a patriot obsessed with the mission instead of the "man out of his league leading to resentment" they went with. USAgent from the comics would have taken that serum back to America for r and d Well Walker is a man of his era, he is the poster boy for the War on Terror as Steve was for WWII and the WoT soldier is a cog in the US War Machine who can easily be replaced for someone else. sam was lucky they got a man who is outta his league and not some sadistic soldier who shoots first, ask questions never
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Apr 11, 2021 20:41
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mastajake posted:Did Steve die off-camera? I wouldn't expect him to be doing any action or anything, but you'd think one or both of the main characters would have consulted him at some point.
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Apr 11, 2021 20:42
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Electric Phantasm posted:Apologies if this has been answered before, but are John and Lemar just ordinary people? They were highly trained soldiers. John Walker was noted as being "off-the-charts" AKA near or at human maximum in a lot of ways. Figure the idea is that physically he was already at or very close to "Steve Rogers Cap" in physical ability before he took the SSS. Now that he's taken it he'll be utterly terrifying in a fight. Unless it's with Bucky in full Winter Soldier mode. Or with the Dora Milage because those ladies are Bad. loving. rear end. I do hope we get another scene with the Ayo. One thing I noted was tha initially Sam and Bucky we fine letting John and Lemar get their asses handed to them by them Dora Milage. It was only when it seemed highly likely that the Dora were going to flat-out kill them right there that Sam and Bucky stepped in - which is what allowed Zemo to escape.
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Apr 11, 2021 22:09
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Nah walker spent most of his time punching down for us hegemony, it showed when he fought the wakandans that he’s never been in a fight with people who can hit back with precision He is like a walking Dunning-Kruger when he enters the world of super hero’s/villains. sonatinas fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 22:23
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Everyone posted:
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Apr 11, 2021 22:24
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mind the walrus posted:This is one subtle point I'm glad got introduced because it really helps head off the "This show paints white people as the villains of the world!" angle that idiots like to run with. Not only do we see a bunch of black African women portrayed as basically the top rung of global power but we also see that they're just as prone to doing what Zemo was talking about and straight-up enforcing their will on everyone because they can. Oh, wow...it's the Myth of Wakandan Exceptionalism. I have to process that.
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Apr 11, 2021 22:32
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https://twitter.com/parkermolloy/status/1381355379175653376?s=21 https://twitter.com/parkermolloy/status/1381358581707071491?s=21
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Apr 11, 2021 22:42
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Mandrel posted:Bucky rocks and id watch a whole show that’s exclusively him whipping rear end  Especially if the other person actually knows how to fight, there's been some pretty solid fight choreography so far. Everyone posted:They were highly trained soldiers. John Walker was noted as being "off-the-charts" AKA near or at human maximum in a lot of ways. Figure the idea is that physically he was already at or very close to "Steve Rogers Cap" in physical ability before he took the SSS. Now that he's taken it he'll be utterly terrifying in a fight. Unless it's with Bucky in full Winter Soldier mode. Or with the Dora Milage because those ladies are Bad. loving. rear end.
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Apr 11, 2021 22:54
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Marsupial Ape posted:Oh, wow...it's the Myth of Wakandan Exceptionalism. I have to process that. mind the walrus posted:This is one subtle point I'm glad got introduced because it really helps head off the "This show paints white people as the villains of the world!" angle that idiots like to run with. Not only do we see a bunch of black African women portrayed as basically the top rung of global power but we also see that they're just as prone to doing what Zemo was talking about and straight-up enforcing their will on everyone because they can. Its worth noting that as far as we can tell Okoye and the others aren't there on orders. When she explains to Bucky why they want Demo, she talks about the shame the Royal Guards had to face for failing to protect Tchaka. And Tchalla was the one who gave Zemo over to the UN/Germans rather than take him to Wakanda for justice. I have a hard time imagining he (or Shuri of he's gone in universe already) ordered them to take Zemo out or bring him to Wakanda, which seems to be their aim. This is a rogue op, and just like a lot of the other characters theyre muddling issues of ideology and duty to nation/people with personal scars, leading them to do something stupid which ultimately harms the the flag they're wrapping their actions in. After all, its because they went all War On Terror Interventionism that Zemo is out of EVERYONES custody now.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:00
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Sanguinia posted:Its worth noting that as far as we can tell Okoye and the others aren't there on orders. When she explains to Bucky why they want Demo, she talks about the shame the Royal Guards had to face for failing to protect Tchaka. And Tchalla was the one who gave Zemo over to the UN/Germans rather than take him to Wakanda for justice. I have a hard time imagining he (or Shuri of he's gone in universe already) ordered them to take Zemo out or bring him to Wakanda, which seems to be their aim. This is a rogue op, and just like a lot of the other characters theyre muddling issues of ideology and duty to nation/people with personal scars, leading them to do something stupid which ultimately harms the the flag they're wrapping their actions in. After all, its because they went all War On Terror Interventionism that Zemo is out of EVERYONES custody now. oh, so they’re basically doing a standard CIA op? Well, isn’t that...exceptional.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:08
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Solenna posted:Steve ... nearly stopped Bucky's helicopter from taking off with his biceps (in I think the most gratuitous shot in Civil war and that's saying something.) My favorite trivia bit about that is that it was extremely early in shooting - maybe the first? - so that they could get Evans at his most ripped, since he'd naturally lose muscle during the shoot. Also he apparently showed from costuming wearing a jacket, and the Russos immediately went "lol no."
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Apr 11, 2021 23:25
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Marsupial Ape posted:oh, so they’re basically doing a standard CIA op? Well, isn’t that...exceptional. You're not wrong, I just wanted to point it out. The muddying of the personal and the geopolitical in this show all these agents of nations/movements are doing is one of the key sources of drama, I really enjoy it
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Apr 11, 2021 23:25
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I think the only way to read what's going on is that Germany is apparently a failed state now and any armed group can just waltz in.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:26
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Alchenar posted:I think the only way to read what's going on is that Germany is apparently a failed state now and any armed group can just waltz in. If we're talking about FATWS they're in Latvia
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Apr 11, 2021 23:27
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Marsupial Ape posted:Oh, wow...it's the Myth of Wakandan Exceptionalism. I have to process that. It's not exactly unprecedented with Ayo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4rx0TF4QF0 Pretty much what happened was that American Exceptionalism ran into Wakandan Exceptionalism and found that Wakandan Exceptionalism was considerably more... exceptional.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:28
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The look that Karli gives after US Agents murder suggests she realizes that poo poo has gotten out of control and hopefully Sam and Bucky can talk her down from going full on Thanos style murder spree
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Apr 11, 2021 23:28
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One thing I was thinking of is that Hoskins has an easy shift in name to something actually cool if he lived but had a big visible injury he could be Battlescar, instead of Battlestar.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:31
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Everyone posted:
Wakandan Exceptionalism is just American Exceptionalism with some Vibranium rubbed on it.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:35
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Marsupial Ape posted:Wakandan Exceptionalism is just American Exceptionalism with some Vibranium rubbed on it. At least it seems to be a minority view in their country instead of a universal axiom.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:47
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twistedmentat posted:The look that Karli gives after US Agents murder suggests she realizes that poo poo has gotten out of control and hopefully Sam and Bucky can talk her down from going full on Thanos style murder spree I think Karli's biggest problem isn't so much the influence of the SSS as "being 22 or so." She does things without quite having the maturity and perspective to think things through all the way to the end. She "yoinks" the SSS from the Power Broker to "supe up" herself and friends so they can Do Something about the GRC's neglect/corruption - which makes her a formidable enemy in the Power Broker. Doing Something about the GRC attracts a lot of attention from the nations backing, especially the USA, which brings Sam (and Bucky) and then Walker and Hoskins. After the Power Broker's goons kill one of her group and the GRCs (willful?) neglect kills Mama Donya her grief and fury push her into murderous retaliation - which muddies her group's message and intensifies then hunt against them. Karli threatened Sam's sister and her kids, which caused Sam to show up at their next meeting fully kitted out of the Falcon, which he might not have done had she not threatened the sister and kids (althought that probably worked in Karli's favor because Super-Soldier John Walker would likely have torn the lot of them apart without Sam and Bucky being there). And finally her plan to smash the "flag" that was Nu-Cap when Walker showed up after taking the serum. With the death of Hoskins, Walker is now a super-powered raging killing machine bent killing Karli and anyone close to her.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:51
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Marsupial Ape posted:Wakandan Exceptionalism is just American Exceptionalism with some Vibranium rubbed on it. You've referred to it a couple times now and I kinda get it from context but would you mind explaining I don't want to be misinterpreting it.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:55
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Everyone posted:(althought that probably worked in Karli's favor because Super-Soldier John Walker would likely have torn the lot of them apart without Sam and Bucky being there). This really doesn't make sense, Bucky and Sam were fighting along with Walker against the Flagsmashers for the whole battle. If Sam and Buck aren't there either the same thing happens or a few of those knives find their target and Walker dies.
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Apr 12, 2021 00:12
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twistedmentat posted:The look that Karli gives after US Agents murder suggests she realizes that poo poo has gotten out of control and hopefully Sam and Bucky can talk her down from going full on Thanos style murder spree I don't think so. What's more likely to happen is that Karli realises that she's crossed a line you can't come back from, and now there's nothing left but pursuing the path to the end no matter what it takes.
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Apr 12, 2021 00:31
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Boxman posted:My favorite trivia bit about that is that it was extremely early in shooting - maybe the first? - so that they could get Evans at his most ripped, since he'd naturally lose muscle during the shoot. Also he apparently showed from costuming wearing a jacket, and the Russos immediately went "lol no."
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Apr 12, 2021 00:37
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Sanguinia posted:I KNEW this take would appear at some point. Newsflash on the actual text of the story: Karli hasn't been running circles around everyone because of her dirty fighting and willingness to kill, she's been doing it because she's earned loyalty from an entire community of supporters who protect her and keep her fight supplied, and she accomplished that with wealth redistribution and non-lethal force exclusively. Switching from noble methods to THE ONLY LANGUAGE THEY UNDERSTAND has accomplished nothing for her except to get one of her people killed, her serum lost, and turned someone who wanted to help her into a direct adversary because she threatened family members. Brilliant work. while there certainly is an argument that sticking with non-violence allowed them to effectively help a handful of people around them, it did nothing to actually stop the GRC from solidifying their hold or curb their abuse of power, and before Karli turned to violence Walker and the rest of the global authority were still completely intent on stopping them, almost certainly with the violence implied by state actors. So the only danger in being violent in return is that they lose their groundswell of support - which they didn't, as far as we can see. It's already a violent conflict. Insisting the Flag Smashers curb their violence when their enemies don't is absolutely childish and the only concerns are tactical, not moral.
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Apr 12, 2021 00:51
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There are absolutely some shots in Cap America: TWS where I pitied Chris Evans on how much work he had to do. Like he was so top heavy he looked like he should fall over.
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Apr 12, 2021 00:52
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Its Rinaldo posted:You've referred to it a couple times now and I kinda get it from context but would you mind explaining I don't want to be misinterpreting it. Oh, certainly! The Myth of American Exceptionalism . Basically, we be believe we can do no wrong...so we end up doing a lot of wrong poo poo and equivocating it later.
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Apr 12, 2021 00:56
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Rockstar Massacre posted:while there certainly is an argument that sticking with non-violence allowed them to effectively help a handful of people around them, it did nothing to actually stop the GRC from solidifying their hold or curb their abuse of power, and before Karli turned to violence Walker and the rest of the global authority were still completely intent on stopping them, almost certainly with the violence implied by state actors. So the only danger in being violent in return is that they lose their groundswell of support - which they didn't, as far as we can see. In episode 3, before Karli had blown up anything, we see Walker and a fully kitted out special forces team with lots and lots of guns and a literal group of APCs breaking down doors to intimidate people who they thought were connected to the Flag Smashers. Walker all but threatens to break a restaurant(?) owner's head, if he doesn't want to talk. It takes Battlestar talking him down to get him not to assault a literal civilian while backed up by military force. They didn't care that the flag smashers had up to then been 'just' taking supplies and running away, with a couple injured at most. They wanted the organization dead and gone, and intended to shoot them all dead if they found them.
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Apr 12, 2021 01:02
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