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Seems kind of backwards, Kylo and Hux’s First Order seem much more of an outsider upstart insurgency, whereas Palpatine is as establishment as it gets. If nothing else, the man was an assured, stabilizing presence in the Galaxy over the course of 30 years. His reappearance would be something akin to FDR resurfacing amidst ongoing national tumult in 1969.
General Dog fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Apr 10, 2021 |
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Apr 10, 2021 19:15
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General Dog posted:Seems kind of backwards, Kylo and Hux’s First Order seem much more of an outsider upstart insurgency, whereas Palpatine is as establishment as it gets. If nothing else, the man was an assured, stabilizing presence in the Galaxy over the course of 30 years. His reappearance would be something akin to FDR resurfacing amidst ongoing national tumult in 1969. The prequels make it clear that if anything the rich and powerful loved Palpatine, or at least the system he embodied, and very few of those with power weren't behind him full stop. Which also tracks with everything Lucas has said about the Empire/Palpatine in the OT even if only a few bits of it made it into the theatrical cut.
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Apr 10, 2021 22:35
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Sheev may have been genuinely popular as emperor at first, but letting his Moffs blow up entire planets for no good reason probably hurt his reputation.
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Apr 10, 2021 23:11
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galagazombie posted:The prequels make it clear that if anything the rich and powerful loved Palpatine, or at least the system he embodied, and very few of those with power weren't behind him full stop. Which also tracks with everything Lucas has said about the Empire/Palpatine in the OT even if only a few bits of it made it into the theatrical cut. Yeah, the second draft of the script goes into extreme detail about what kinds of people support the Empire. As Luke tells his younger brothers: Luke Starkiller posted:As the Republic spread throughout the galaxy, encompassing over a million worlds, the GREAT SENATE grew to such overwhelming proportions that it no longer responded to the needs of its citizens. After a series of assassinations and elaborately rigged elections, the Great Senate became secretly controlled by the Power and Transport guilds. When the Jedi discovered the conspiracy and attempted to purge the Senate, they were denounced as traitors. Several Jedi allowed themselves to be tried and executed, but most of them fled into the Outland systems and tried to tell people of the conspiracy. But the elders chose to remain behind, and the Great Senate diverted them by creating civil disorder. The Senate secretly instigated race wars, and aided anti-government terrorists. They slowed down the system of justice, which caused the crime rate to rise to the point where a totally controlled and oppressive police state was welcomed by the systems. The Empire was born. The systems were exploited by a new economic policy which raised the cost of power and transport to unbelievable heights. Many worlds were destroyed this way. Many people starved…
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Apr 10, 2021 23:19
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Blood Boils posted:Sheev may have been genuinely popular as emperor at first, but letting his Moffs blow up entire planets for no good reason probably hurt his reputation.
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Apr 10, 2021 23:20
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I wonder how much money Matt Smith has made from movies he did not appear in at this point. He had a pay-or-play contract for a full trilogy when he signed on for Terminator Genisys, so he probably got enough money to retire, or at least stop working for a decade or two, just from that alone. Horizon Burning posted:as far as him being a younger Palpatine clone, i believe that's what the rumour was saying, yeah. that or he was an acolyte and that palpatine's spirit would possess him. Given how quickly Terrio and Abrams cobbled together the script for The Rise of Skywalker, the only real logical endpoint for Smith is that his character would have somehow been possessed by Palpatine's essence or some poo poo like that (and, honestly, Smith could have played that incredibly well). The real question is whether or not Smith was ever officially cast. He never appeared in any call sheets or casting announcements / other promo material, and the only outlet that said he was in the movie was Variety; no other publication picked up the story or ran with it. Now, Variety is generally pretty well-connected with Disney--although The Hollywood Reporter is much more deeply entrenched on the Lucasfilm / Kathleen Kennedy side, Kennedy has her arm so far up the rear end of a few of their writers that she can make them sing "Yankee Doodle Dandy" on command by moving a finger, and as a result THR is essentially a PR outlet for Kennedy and Frank Marshall--and I'm wondering if Variety simply goofed and conflated something from when Trevorrow was still attached, or perhaps when they were spitballing around with some ideas from Lucas. CelticPredator posted:Rian Johnson did. He specifically brought up the entire plot of the prequels right up front. Which was cool. Because they’re a part of Star Wars Luke telling Rey that the Jedi self-owned themselves and rightfully got their poo poo kicked in for it is one of my favorite little moments in The Last Jedi. Timby fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Apr 10, 2021 |
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Apr 10, 2021 23:44
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Matt Smith had a few scenery-chewing moments in Doctor Who that make me think he could have been a very good "young palpatine"
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Apr 10, 2021 23:47
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Timby posted:
Same. Just the way Hamill delivers that line is wonderful. He’s both angry and just utterly annoyed at how stupid they were.
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Apr 10, 2021 23:50
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Timby posted:The real question is whether or not Smith was ever officially cast. He never appeared in any call sheets or casting announcements / other promo material, and the only outlet that said he was in the movie was Variety; no other publication picked up the story or ran with it. Now, Variety is generally pretty well-connected with Disney--although The Hollywood Reporter is much more deeply entrenched on the Lucasfilm / Kathleen Kennedy side, Kennedy has her arm so far up the rear end of a few of their writers that she can make them sing "Yankee Doodle Dandy" on command by moving a finger, and as a result THR is essentially a PR outlet for Kennedy and Frank Marshall--and I'm wondering if Variety simply goofed and conflated something from when Trevorrow was still attached, or perhaps when they were spitballing around with some ideas from Lucas. he got listed on the Disney website as being in the cast, but was then removed from the website in 2019. which would line up with how late McDiarmid was seemingly brought into the film.
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Apr 11, 2021 01:30
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Robot Style posted:Yeah, the second draft of the script goes into extreme detail about what kinds of people support the Empire. As Luke tells his younger brothers: It’s really telling what bits of this were removed by the time of the prequels, especially the Jedi alternately submitting to trials and fleeing to become ronin/gunslingers actually serving the people, and also how it’s an illuminati-ized understanding of corruption. Lucas grew up a lot in between
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Apr 11, 2021 02:24
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Payndz posted:Pfft, I'm sure Starfox News was spinning it his way immediately. Tuq'a Kahlsun probably ran a piece about how those wobbly liberal Alderaanites actually deserved a superlaser to the face before the debris had cooled. Starfox News will spin whatever gets small groups of space mercenaries more work.
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Apr 11, 2021 05:32
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Robot Style posted:Yeah, the second draft of the script goes into extreme detail about what kinds of people support the Empire. As Luke tells his younger brothers: quote:When the Jedi discovered the conspiracy and attempted to purge the Senate, they were denounced as traitors. Several Jedi allowed themselves to be tried and executed, but most of them fled into the Outland systems and tried to tell people of the conspiracy. But the elders chose to remain behind, and the Great Senate diverted them by creating civil disorder. The Senate secretly instigated race wars, and aided anti-government terrorists. Reads like Qanon forums not gonna lie
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Apr 11, 2021 19:24
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The Clone Wars was kind of an Old Money vs New Money conflict
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Apr 11, 2021 19:34
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fatherboxx posted:Reads like Qanon forums not gonna lie “Palpatine is secretly an evil sorcerer who wants to prolong his unnatural existence by sucking the life force out of the young to pursue galactic domination! Wait, come back, I’m serious!”
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Apr 11, 2021 19:42
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The sith are indeed sacrificing baby yodas on a basement to great snokes
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Apr 11, 2021 19:54
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So uh, someone on reddit dropped some supposed bts gossip. Take it with a silo of salt, if we start seeing leaks and people gossiping about what happened behind the scenes then there might be some truth to this stuff. https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarssp...utm_name=iossmf quote:I worked on the sequel trilogy for its entire run. From The Force Awakens to The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker. The world has changed, as has my position in the roots of this tree. In the next coming days...weeks...months...there will be a several leaks due to shakeups at Lucasfilm. Leaks have become a part of the culture of the company. I wanted to set some matters straight before that occurred. Who am I? Does it matter? There's nothing I could provide to convince everyone who I was without doxxing myself. Something I'm not particular open to doing. Take this as gospel or with a grain of salt.
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Apr 11, 2021 22:53
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And that man's name was Elan sleazebaggano
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Apr 11, 2021 23:22
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That whole summary is way too pat to be real, imo
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Apr 11, 2021 23:29
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quote:Rose had a key role in saving the day by altering a communication jammer the First Order used to keep the galaxy in the dark. This message spread across the galaxy would have been Leia's call for help from TLJ. This bit feels like it has a ring of truth to it. The comms jammer that makes sense here as the reason the galaxy isn't mobilising to help the rebels became a comms relay that doesn't really make any sense in the film. I can see it.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:32
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Seems fake, but on the other hand I don’t know why someone would take the energy to compose such a long fakepost just to paint JJ in the most flattering light possible.
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Apr 12, 2021 00:55
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There was another leak much closer to the films release also painting JJ in a good light so it might be the same person
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Apr 12, 2021 01:18
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The aside complaining about people calling it “the JJ cut” and not “the Abrams cut” is hilarious.
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Apr 12, 2021 01:25
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General Dog posted:The aside complaining about people calling it “the JJ cut” and not “the Abrams cut” is hilarious. Strong "uhm, achsually" vibes there lol
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Apr 12, 2021 01:26
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:That whole summary is way too pat to be real, imo Yeah, that's where I'm at. It'd be funny if it was true, tho!
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Apr 12, 2021 01:33
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some of it makes sense, and i think some of it (the bit about transmitting leia's distress call) lines up with some of the earliest leaks/rumors about TROS. but it could just be that the person did their research.
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Apr 12, 2021 01:44
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And I've been holding out hope for a JarJar cut  All the stuff about studio interference I 100% believe, not so much about JJ shooting two things and what would've been in it.
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Apr 12, 2021 02:26
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I wonder how the intervention of Doctor Who affected production of this movie.
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Apr 12, 2021 03:18
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Post is super synthesized from the interviews that are out there but that said if anything in it was confirmed I wouldnt be surprised. For example all of the hand-wringing about boyega is believable but boyega also talked about that stuff several times last year, and made a point to defend JJ. The post's lack of interest in dishing on Rian/TLJ might be the best evidence there's some truth in it. And/or it's just a bad robot psyop
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Apr 12, 2021 03:50
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Seems super fake. There's a bit of true info in there (like Jannah as Finn's sister), but there's a bunch that's clearly BS. Rose had a key role in saving the day by altering a communication jammer the First Order used to keep the galaxy in the dark. This message spread across the galaxy would have been Leia's call for help from TLJ. This is from Trevorrow's script, but would've been really hard to pull off by the time Abrams and Terrio were brought on. There's no dialogue from Carrie Fisher that would work for this and they knew early on they weren't going to recast. Rey had learned she was Vader's granddaughter and reconciled her past with Luke.Finn had staged a stormtrooper rebellion after finding a long-lost sibling. Jannah being Finn's sister was in the TROS concept art book, so that's true, but the Rey/Vader connection seems to be fake. Daisy Ridley did a talk show where she mentioned specific alternate-Rey backstories including her as Obi-Wan's granddaughter, but said nothing about being Luke's kid. If that was on the table for Episode 9, she probably would have used that as an example rather than the much earlier Obi-Wan connection. This story was scrapped before/during principal photography. Some stayed in. Some was changed during film. Abrams had to pitch the movie to Bob Iger on the day The Last Jedi premiered, and the main beats of the movie seem to be largely the same (though shuffled around in location). They had like 3 months to come up with the story - there just wasn't time to make changes on the scale this person is suggesting. Disney and Lucasfilm disagreed with Abrams finale. Felt that it needed a villain with a bigger audience presence than Kylo or Hux. Expressing regret that Snoke had been killed off, but not wanting to bring him back. Chris Terrio has said that the idea to bring Palaptine back predates his involvement with the movie (he started the same week as JJ). It's most likely true that the studio wanted Palpatine, but there's nothing to confirm or deny Abrams' Hux/Kylo version. Ray's parents had been Luke and a "force archaeologist" who found Anakin's lightsaber after the events of the OT but before the ST. We never learn her name in this story. Again, this seems unlikely. An earlier version of the story did introduce an older woman with a connection to Rey, but she was a blind shipbuilder living as a hermit rather than an archaeologist, and was more likely Rey's grandmother, with no connection to Luke. Jannah had been Finn's sister (I'm told this is still on the table for future stories). They were separated when they were kidnapped. Their last names were once Galfridian. Jannah did start off as Finn's sister, but there's no way that their name would have been Galfridian. Finn Galfridian was a character in some comics set during the New Jedi Order series, but other than a first name there's absolutely no connection, and the source material is pretty far away from the kind of references Abrams & Co. are into. Much of Rose's subplot was dedicated to figuring out how to outsmart the First Order. Rose and Jannah had a third act subplot of converting the jammer into the beacon to alert the galaxy for the final battle. They become close. Sort of, but not really. Rose's function in the early version of the movie was to finish building a "Sabotage Brick" that could shut down the First Order fleet. In one version of the story, the device was devised by Jannah and the other former stormtroopers, who worked in a First Order labor camp tearing apart broken ships. They were able to study the flaws in the FO ships and design something to take advantage. This version of events was scrapped pretty quickly though, since JJ replaced the labor camp with the Death Star ruins, and made Babu Frik the one who came up with the device instead. Pryde originally sold out the First Order to the Resistance. The oldest of the old guard tired of following children. Hux and Kylo work together to find out who the spy is by leaking false information. Hux kills Pryde. Pryde as a character is in early versions of the movie, but there's nothing to suggest he was ever anything other than a Red Herring for Hux. Plus, if they were going to get someone from Game of Thrones as "the oldest of the old guard", it would make way more sense to bring back Julian Glover as Veers rather than invent a new character. Courscant was a key world for conflict between the First Order and Resistance. Coruscant was in Abrams' version of the movie early on, but it had been completely abandoned, so I don't see it being important in the First Order/Resistance war. Poe would end up convincing bounty hunter Zorii to aide the fight with her fellow bounty hunters. The two become mutually interested in the other. Poe did end up convincing the bounty hunters to join the fight in early versions of the script, but Zorii started out as a big monster character, and only became a humanoid female when her gang became less antagonistic towards him during script revisions. Final battle for the Resistance takes place over a giant docking bay with the First Order fleet on Courscant. Most of the early concept art for the First Order factories and the final battle are in deep space. The Rey & Kylo vs Palpatine stuff did originally take place on Coruscant, however. Finn leads the assault to the beacon that will call the cavalry with Rose and Jannah. He would have been wielding a green lightsaber. Unknown if it was Luke's lightsaber or an Abrams Deus ex Machina. This seems to be completely made up. Finn leading the cavalry charge on the Star Destroyer was one of Abrams' earliest ideas for the movie, though Finn did originally deploy the movie's MacGuffin at the climax (which wasn't a beacon). Sith Troopers are actually clones mixed with Phasma's DNA. There's nothing to confirm or deny this in any existing BTS stuff, but come on. How/why would the Sith get Phasma's DNA? How would they be clones "mixed with" Phasma? Are they half Jango, half Phasma? Finn leads a stormtrooper rebellion of normal stormtroopers vs Sith stormtroopers. Potentially true. Finn originally rescued Jannah and the other stormtroopers from a First Order labor camp, where they might have picked up some armor. The red troopers definitely seem like something that evolved out of a need to separate the "good" stormtroopers from the "evil" ones on screen. Rey and Kylo have their final battle. Knights of Ren would help. Finn arrives to fight them and Kylo with Rey. The Knights of Ren initially appeared on the Death Star ruins, so it's possible that they aided in the fight against Rey. Finn also had a plot reason to be there (scavenging parts), so could have encountered them as well. But I don't think there was ever a version where this fight was the final battle of the movie rather than being the midpoint sequence. Knights of Ren would be killed. Kylo accept his defeat and return to the light as he dies. Why? I mean, it's not like his redemption makes a ton of sense in the movie as-is, but feeling his mother reach out to him just before she dies makes a lot more sense than turning good just because he got his rear end kicked. The Resistance gang would have celebrated on Tatooine at the Lars homestead. Finn and Rey watching the sunrise hand in hand with Jannah, Rose, Poe, Zorii, Chewie, and the droids. The concept art that's out there always depicts Rey as being alone (other than BB-8), so this seems unlikely. There was even some art that has her debuting her new lightsaber to scare away some sand people rather than just turning it on to show the audience that it exists, which jives more with the abandoned state the movie has it in.
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Apr 12, 2021 06:35
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I appreciate the effort post, RS
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Apr 12, 2021 06:39
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Battle over communication jammer because "Leia's message" went from a plot point to a mythological piece that both creators and in-universe characters worship seems a very stupid and plausible concept. I get why the nefarious Disney/Lucasfilm hivemind that the leaker refers to axed it in favor of a more understandable spectacle thing. But going for thousand extreme death star destroyers is a very napkin drawing development without anyone saying no or bothering to workshop more.
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Apr 12, 2021 11:45
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The biggest clue that that 'leak' is fake is the idea that anyone cares at all what our boy Pablo thinks the direction the films should go. Also this is just gibberish: quote:Each sequel trilogy director prioritized their scripts differently. Johnson was intoxicated with the themes. Trevorrow had been infatuated with the spectacle. And Abrams favored the concepts. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 12:26
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*becomes intoxicated with themes* aaaa ha ha ha haaa
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Apr 12, 2021 12:41
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2house2fly posted:*becomes intoxicated with themes* aaaa ha ha ha haaa [ancient lamentation music]
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Apr 12, 2021 12:47
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2house2fly posted:*becomes intoxicated with themes* aaaa ha ha ha haaa Rian huffing the themes, holding poor producer assistant hostage on a joyride in a studio lot golf car
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Apr 12, 2021 13:08
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I've never seen TROS without being intoxicated and I don't recommend seeing it sober, whether you use themes or whatever, it's up to you.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:51
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Faded off the themes e: the virgin theme intoxication vs the chad concept favorer Ingmar terdman fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 18:29
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Speaking of gibberish, this stuck out to me.quote:Abrams had seen Kylo as a tragic villain and wanted to tell a dark what-if story to the redemption of Vader. Ben Solo would have always been redeemed, but only through death. Ben dying is a dark what if redemption of Vader...
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Apr 12, 2021 19:29
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Halloween Jack posted:I've never seen TROS without being intoxicated and I don't recommend seeing it sober, whether you use themes or whatever, it's up to you. I was drunk af in the theater dressed as palpatine. Best way to see it tbh
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Apr 12, 2021 19:29
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I always got the sense that they were generally apprehensive about making kylo sympathetic or the anti-hero or whatever. Always got the sense in TFA that they weren't sure if people would vibe with him as neo-Vader as well as neo-Anakin, so they kinda threw a bunch of stuff out there and kept his mask on for the most of the film. TLJ is clearly written from a place of "I just watched TFA and here are some expansions of the things I found interesting about Kylo". Once again I can barely pretend to believe that JJ was actively involved or truly concerned about trilogy-wide arcs. The leak is definitely trying to rehab JJ by putting him in the "trilogy planned out from the start" camp, which is the commonly post-ROS rallying cry online for some reason.
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Apr 12, 2021 20:11
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