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Turin Turambar posted:My point is, other companies will think "uhh spending 4 billion dollars to start having some profits in, with luck, 11 or 12 years? Seems a bad plan". Thing is, developing the Quest 2 product and buying a few Quest 2s and reverse-engineering them have vastly different costs
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Apr 16, 2021 22:51
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:VD was never going to last forever and he must have made a tidy sum from it, he could take things a little more gracefully. I think he probably wanted to get bought.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:51
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Turin Turambar posted:It's easy to say this, but I think FB is many years away of recouping the literal billions of dollars they have spent on vR, first on the Oculus acquisition, then in half a dozen other companies (from Carbon design to Nimble vr and 13th lab and more), then in several years of R&D. Even after all that money, Quest 2 success is relative, it isn't like they have sold 20 million units. Yeah they're definitely way ahead because of how much they've invested, but to his credit he seems to understand the value long term that other companies don't seem to. Of course it's longer term thinking, which is selected against in business, but god whichever company ends up owned the metaverse is going to be so ungodly rich The upside is that at least while Facebook seems to understand the long term value, I don't think software wise they understand really how to get there. Horizon to me is a pretty clear display that they don't really get how to build something like that on their own
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Apr 16, 2021 22:54
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Picked up Doom 3 BFG. Which is the go to VR mod? It looks like there are two different ones? (PCVR not Quest)
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Apr 16, 2021 22:54
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Lemming posted:Then someone needs to get off their rear end and make an actual Quest competitor. Standalone is so clearly where VR is going, it's painful to see other people not keeping up I always lolled at the resident cspam vr enthusiast because it was so obvious vr would always be dumb so long as you needed a gaming cpu to do it, so when I went from CV1 to Q2 i lolled at how effectively facebook pulled it off. 300 per unit to compete against just seems brutal, to me.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:15
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Lemming posted:Yeah they're definitely way ahead because of how much they've invested, but to his credit he seems to understand the value long term that other companies don't seem to. If you were to get a candid answer from Google or Microsoft, I’m sure that they would happily go back in time and pay twice what FB did, even given VR’s still-nascent state. If VR isn’t big, then FB is out say $3B in stock and cash, or the year’s profits when they acquired Oculus in 2014–or about 5 weeks’ profit in 2020. I wasn’t involved in the Oculus deal until after it closed, but I was involved in another (failed; Waze) acquisition attempt in the billion dollar range when I was there and $3B partially in stock is definitely in the “betting what you can afford to lose” realm for FB of that time. If on the other hand VR is really transformationally big, and FB got locked out of it or had to supplicate to the platform owners like they did on mobile, they would face what might literally be an existential threat to Mark’s vision of Facebook’s role in the world. (Maybe we feel that’s an exaggeration of the real threat, but it’s very much how the strategic significance of the VR platform was framed; you may recall the “mobile will kill FB” stories of the time, which we really felt internally as a plausible threat at the time.) You can see the WhatsApp acquisition through the same lens: what are we out if we buy it and it goes to zero, versus what are we out if we don’t buy it (and a competitor buys it) and it goes to 90% of the messaging market? That’s how you get to the acquisition price, not by some multiplier on number of active users or because they felt each of the employees was worth the better part of a billion-with-a-b.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:17
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For everyone making janky Rift S knockoffs, you'd think someone could take the latest Tegra or Snapdragon SOC and make one without a wire. I know I'm grossly oversimplifying things here, but its at a point where its advanced android development, basically
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Apr 16, 2021 23:48
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:For everyone making janky Rift S knockoffs, you'd think someone could take the latest Tegra or Snapdragon SOC and make one without a wire. So far Oculus seems to be the only place to go for decent inside out controller tracking. It apparently took using Facebook's giant machine learning resources to get it good.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:55
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Given the Quest is basically an Android phone plus a tracking algorithm and Google did their whole daydream thing, I'm pretty amazed that Google seems to have all but pulled out of VR instead of making a Quest competitor.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:30
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There’s also a lot of work that goes into pose estimation even outside of hand tracking, in terms of dealing with controller occlusion and similar.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:40
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Turin Turambar posted:
Zuck doesn't "believe in VR" the way people in this thread do. He believes that it's a new angle that he can bet on for more data collection to control the flow of information and advertising. Having scanning cameras in millions of physical homes and later AR glasses on every face is the goal, not some kind of "bringing entertainment and new experiences to the every man!" Disneyland fantasy.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:54
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mutata posted:Zuck doesn't "believe in VR" the way people in this thread do. He believes that it's a new angle that he can bet on for more data collection to control the flow of information and advertising. Having scanning cameras in millions of physical homes and later AR glasses on every face is the goal, not some kind of "bringing entertainment and new experiences to the every man!" Disneyland fantasy. I already got all these government tracking chips and 5G receptors in my arm from the vaccine what the hell do I have to lose now oh no, they're gonna target some ads at me
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Apr 17, 2021 00:56
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If you think it's just about ads, then you haven't been following American politics for the last 5 years, but I get it, this is the VR thread and all.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:59
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Ya'll best get used to this. FB is going full Epic Store on this stuff and is happy to spend a shitzillion dollars on exclusives and bankroll development of games for their platforms. The wave of Japanese properties is pretty interesting. Do we know if they were done inhouse or shipped out for 3rd party ports.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:19
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Warbird posted:Ya'll best get used to this. FB is going full Epic Store on this stuff and is happy to spend a shitzillion dollars on exclusives and bankroll development of games for their platforms. The wave of Japanese properties is pretty interesting. Do we know if they were done inhouse or shipped out for 3rd party ports. They already quietly announced a bunch of poo poo, I'm hoping details come out next week for Assassin's Creed VR and Splinter Cell VR.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:21
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veni veni veni posted:I really dislike that RE4 is a quest exclusive. Now I'm starting to feel the pain of being abandoned with the rift S. gently caress you Facebook. Honestly I think that a bunch of exclusives will change their tune eventually. Sony will almost certainly want RE4 on their VR platform too. Turin Turambar posted:It's easy to say this, but I think FB is many years away of recouping the literal billions of dollars they have spent on vR, first on the Oculus acquisition, then in half a dozen other companies (from Carbon design to Nimble vr and 13th lab and more), then in several years of R&D. Even after all that money, Quest 2 success is relative, it isn't like they have sold 20 million units. You're thinking profit now, Zuck's thinking "means to profit forever". Those literal billions will multiply into a perpetual revenue stream if Facebook gets to be the center of VR. StarkRavingMad posted:I already got all these government tracking chips and 5G receptors in my arm from the vaccine what the hell do I have to lose now Oh, hey we can tell you have arthritis in your wrist joints from the way you play Beat Saber, and from your heart rate combined with pupil movements what interests you. Btw, we can tell from your stamina you're at risk of heart disease and quite lethargic with your infrequent use, so we passed that along to your insurance company. Enjoy your new premiums, if not dropped coverage! Oh you're talking to someone in-game or just with the headset on? Cool! A Smart AI's listening in through the always-on microphone, and now we know a LOT more about you and can functionally own and predict you body and mind.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:25
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Honestly I think that a bunch of exclusives will change their tune eventually. Sony will almost certainly want RE4 on their VR platform too. RE4 looks fantastic for a Quest 2 game but it would be kinda underwhelming graphically on PSVR 2 compared to the other releases. Supposedly Capcom has been working on an RE4 remake, I wouldn't be surprised if that got a VR mode for PSVR 2 (although I'm not holding my breath for PCVR since RE7 on PC still has no VR).
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Apr 17, 2021 03:33
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Tip posted:RE4 looks fantastic for a Quest 2 game but it would be kinda underwhelming graphically on PSVR 2 compared to the other releases. If it's on the RE Engine, then theoretically it should probably be scalable up to fancier models, textures and lighting at the very least.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:43
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Today I helped my wife set up a game of Eleven against my mom and then they played and chatted for like an hour. There's just no way something like that would ever happen with a PCVR unit. My wife wouldn't want to be chained to my PC and my parents just wouldn't own a VR headset. If someone wants to compete with Quest 2 they'll need a standalone unit that's cheap and fairly user friendly. My parents are sorta techy boomers and they're playing a combined like two hours a day of VR for fun/exercise.
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Apr 17, 2021 05:20
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https://www.androidcentral.com/carmack-talks-future-quest-2-new-headsets-optimization-and-more Carmack and Boz did a AMA thing. No new devices for this year. Some teases inside.
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Apr 17, 2021 08:22
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Lemming posted:Then someone needs to get off their rear end and make an actual Quest competitor. Standalone is so clearly where VR is going, it's painful to see other people not keeping up I think its a few things coming together. oculus had been working on the quest since, what? 2015, 2014? and finally released it in spring 2019. At that time the only other 6 dof stand alone headsets were affairs with no controllers that were $800 and focused on B2B use. I think a lot of people didn't expect the Quest to be the success it was or at a $400 price point, and while it made a splash it didn't launch with a ton of software, and there was no PC link on the horizon, so you could understand other companies not necessarily think "oh my god i have to get in on this". After all, google officially discontinued daydream in october of 2019, which is just amazing timing that only Google could do, considering what the quest did after that point, and how they were poised to have a competing ecosystem with potentially wide support if OEMs jumped in. Jump forward to 2020, you probably have more companies working on designs for stand alone sets to compete with the quest, but I think the Q2 release caught people by surprise. Now they had to make sure these sets they're working on are as good as the specs of Q2 and at a $300 range. That had to have shaken up a lot of in development plans as well. So now you're in a space where you have to match those specs and price, AND create your entire software stack, store front, tracking, etc from scratch since theres no one like google left to provide an 'android of VR'. There can always be dark horses that jump in, but as far as the established people really working in VR, with the reach and experience to do so on a wide commercial level, its like.... HTC and Sony? And Sony doesn't seem to have any interest in stand alone devices. I know apple rumor mills are teasing theirs (just like the iglasses they all assured were going to be announced that just vanished), but they're also saying those are going to be multi thousands of dollars and really a development platform for AR down the road. I still think HTC's new teased headset will be exactly this, for exactly these reasons, but, who knows they've certainly made weird decisions before. I don't think its easy for companies to just "jump in" and make a Quest competitor, especially with something like daydream dead and buried.
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Apr 17, 2021 08:24
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I will clarify that I don't think VR is going to be the next billion-with-b user platform, not at least in the next 25 years. I think it's more a 120m market, similar to traditional consoles, because of the limits imposed (have to be on your head, it blocks your view, people really are not THAT interested in immersive experiences, etc). And even to reach a meaningful amount of users, something like 50m, they will needed several years more with sustained growth. That's why I called Zuck a 'believer'.
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Apr 17, 2021 08:51
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Turin Turambar posted:I will clarify that I don't think VR is going to be the next billion-with-b user platform, not at least in the next 25 years. I think it's more a 120m market, similar to traditional consoles, because of the limits imposed (have to be on your head, it blocks your view, people really are not THAT interested in immersive experiences, etc). And even to reach a meaningful amount of users, something like 50m, they will needed several years more with sustained growth. That's why I called Zuck a 'believer'. Your problem is you're thinking of it as a consumer device rather than how Zuck does, which is as a biometric harvesting tool. That is where his billions come from. Tom Guycot posted:I still think HTC's new teased headset will be exactly this, for exactly these reasons, but, who knows they've certainly made weird decisions before. I don't think its easy for companies to just "jump in" and make a Quest competitor, especially with something like daydream dead and buried. By my count the three possible companies who could field a standalone headset and ecosystem are Sony (probably a tethered PS5 HMD), HTC (possibly, but looks like a PC headset to my eye) and Samsung (experience with HMD's, inside-out tracking, and GearVR). The problem is that everyone was focused on PCVR headsets, and doing a pretty good job of expanding the market, until A: WMR died and B: The Quest suddenly existed. The problem with the latter is it only popped into existence in 2018, so even if literally every other company started on a competitor the moment they laid eyes on the reveal trailer we might well be 2-3 years out from seeing their projects reach fruition. The Quest 2 wouldn't have helped either. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 09:08
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Hi. I picked up a quest 2 the other day with a bonus from work. I love it so far but I'm hitting a wall with linking it to my gaming pc. I'm direct connecting, but the app won't connect up when I plug the headset into the computer. I've tried all the USB 3's on my computer. I've ready you sometimes have to enable usb management through the developer mode. I've signed up and ticked the box through the app, restarted the headset but the menu doesn't appear on the headset. Anything else I could be missing for either of these issues. Or do I just wait for v28 and WiFi connection?
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Apr 17, 2021 11:11
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It should state that Link is available when you plug in the cable, and you should then be able to select Settings > Link. There's a first time startup process you have to do on PC to connect it to the app, so make sure you've done that - download the Oculus software, turn on the headset, plug in the cable, then take off the headset and finish the setup in the Oculus software on your desktop screen, which should open automatically. Also set the headset to 90hz once you're in (soon to be 120hz).
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Apr 17, 2021 11:44
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Grey Hunter posted:Hi. I picked up a quest 2 the other day with a bonus from work. I love it so far but I'm hitting a wall with linking it to my gaming pc. by app, I'm guessing you mean the oculus app on pc? does the pc recognize the quest at all? if not, and re-enabling the usb dialogue box in settings doesn't work, i'd think about doing a factory reset.
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Apr 17, 2021 11:44
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Grey Hunter posted:Hi. I picked up a quest 2 the other day with a bonus from work. I love it so far but I'm hitting a wall with linking it to my gaming pc. Have you tried using a different cable to rule that out?
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Apr 17, 2021 11:51
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:It should state that Link is available when you plug in the cable, and you should then be able to select Settings > Link. There's a first time startup process you have to do on PC to connect it to the app, so make sure you've done that - download the Oculus software, turn on the headset, plug in the cable, then take off the headset and finish the setup in the Oculus software on your desktop screen, which should open automatically. Also set the headset to 90hz once you're in (soon to be 120hz). Yeah it's not getting past plugging in the cable. Origami Dali posted:by app, I'm guessing you mean the oculus app on pc? does the pc recognize the quest at all? if not, and re-enabling the usb dialogue box in settings doesn't work, i'd think about doing a factory reset. Part of the problem is I can't see the usb dialog box. I've tried a factory reset once. Neddy Seagoon posted:Have you tried using a different cable to rule that out? Will any usb cable work? I only have the one usb3 one. Thanks for the answers so far! EDIT - tried the power cable, and it connected and fininshed the app install straight away, so its a dodgy USB cable - any good suggestions for the UK, or did I just get unlucky with my generic chinese one? Grey Hunter fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 12:01
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Not all cables will work, it’s a whole thing that’s not centric to VR. I think there are lists out there of known working ones. If you don’t feel like waiting for wireless you can get a very good implementation of the feature now by way of Virtual Desktop.
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Apr 17, 2021 12:43
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I may well just wait for wireless now - its rolling over the next week or so isn't it?
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Apr 17, 2021 12:45
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I was going to say try the PTC version of the Oculus pc app, as it has already v28, and people says it fixes some previous problems, but it seems your issue was the cable.
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Apr 17, 2021 12:49
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A cable can still be useful, especially if you want to use Sidequest or end up having to do any troubleshooting, so any USB-C cable will do. USB 3 for preference, but USB 2 will work just fine in most cases.
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Apr 17, 2021 12:57
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Grey Hunter posted:I may well just wait for wireless now - its rolling over the next week or so isn't it? It is but it requires wired ethernet PC to router like Virtual Desktop, and I noticed about 25ms of latency which tbf is only noticable on BeatSaber. I got a chinese cable someone linked on here for £15, it works but I have to unplug everything else from the USB 3 card on my computer because of the power load.
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Apr 17, 2021 13:11
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I found that the 480mb/s Anker Powerline cables were a pixel-crushed unplayable mess, but the 5gb/s Anker non-powerline cables were fine, so I'm pretty skeptical about the "any usb 2 cable is fine" advice. If you're looking to buy a cable, check the rated data transfer speed and not just that it's listed as "usb 3" because some "usb 3" cables use the additional channels for fast charging instead of data transfer.
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Apr 17, 2021 13:15
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Grey Hunter posted:EDIT - tried the power cable, and it connected and fininshed the app install straight away, so its a dodgy USB cable - any good suggestions for the UK, or did I just get unlucky with my generic chinese one? I got this one on a lightning deal (although even at full price it's still much cheaper than the official Oculus cable) and it's worked fine for me so far: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B086HFLH7J/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_MHWKXQWWZTX2DEH76T11?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 3 metres might not be enough for your needs but I only use it when I'm sat in front of my PC so it's plenty for me
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Apr 17, 2021 13:24
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Went to grab Gorilla Tag off the app lab so I don't have to keep using the sideloaded version and this was the top review: Game good.
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Apr 17, 2021 15:37
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Yesterday was my first major beat saber day. The wife loves it, but drunken barfight or moving via stick makes her sick instantly. I am so far seemingly immune to motion sickness I tested a few things to try and trigger it even. I spent most of the day frustrated that the mod manager custom songs weren't showing up until I realized this morning I was launching the quest 2 beat saber app somehow through virtual desktop instead of the steam version 
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Apr 17, 2021 16:25
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Ooh that's a good one. Is it generally advised to pick stuff like that up on STEAM for the mod support vs the Oculus store??
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Apr 17, 2021 16:33
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For Beat Saber its a bit of a catch 22. Mods are more robust on PC and the graphics are a bit nicer, but the additional latency from using Link or VD can be noticeable when playing twitchy stuff like rhythm games.
SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 16:36
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I can't speak to everybody else's experience since I don't really get motion sickness much IRL except in a few rare instances (like sitting in the back seat of a vehicle that has really tiny rear windows or limited visibility), but I've found that the way to get over VR sickness is just to keep pushing through it until you adjust to it. It seems easier to adjust to than real-life motion sickness. Like at first, I felt sick if I used smooth motion at all but I got used to it after a few sessions. Then it was jumping or falling, but I eventually adjusted to that even if falling is still scary. My latest thing is driving vehicles. Like being propelled forward in Synth Riders or whatever is fine, but driving vehicles or flying planes makes me sick. Maybe it's the limited visibility, which is weird because the proposed "solution" to make you feel less sick is vignetting. I'd imagine that'd make you more sick.
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