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Sanguinia posted:Sam has no problem with Karli's cause, he doesn't even seem to have MUCH problem with her stealing although he isn't entirely comfortable with it (note all the times he tries to say he can make calls and talk to people to get the downtrodden the money or supplies they need, and the fact that he was willing to fight to stop those vaccines from being taken), but its killing people, especially in the form of intentional political assassinations, that he can't abide. You'd think having a literal brainwashed soldier turned into a machine for killing would be an opportunity to highlight this. And the average right wing voter might have a higher body count than the fictional cyborg assassin. But instead we get a great performance from Mackie giving a completely empty Buttigieg speech offering no solutions and making a few people's choices seem like the source of displaced snapped people as opposed to the US having like 31 empty houses for every homeless person right now. Anyway, he did some sweet flips last episode.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:33
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You can't be Captain America in the MCU if your suit isn't ugly and dumb.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:33
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God being a leftist can suck when I just want to enjoy my superhero media and then everyone I follow has to treat it like this is the most toxic imperialist propaganda that is poisoning our culture to be more and more neolib and fash. I would say the actual answer to that is the 1000000000 cop shows that have been on TV non stop since the 80s
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Apr 23, 2021 23:33
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achillesforever6 posted:God being a leftist can suck when I just want to enjoy my superhero media and then everyone I follow has to treat it like this is the most toxic imperialist propaganda that is poisoning our culture to be more and more neolib and fash. I would say the actual answer to that is the 1000000000 cop shows that have been on TV non stop since the 80s Don’t you know that hot-taking on the internet is legitimate praxis and makes you a certified revolutionary?
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Apr 23, 2021 23:37
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achillesforever6 posted:God being a leftist can suck when I just want to enjoy my superhero media and then everyone I follow has to treat it like this is the most toxic imperialist propaganda that is poisoning our culture to be more and more neolib and fash. I would say the actual answer to that is the 1000000000 cop shows that have been on TV non stop since the 80s If D&D is any indication, a lot of American Leftists have decided that the only thing they hate more than fascism AND status quo Centrism is Incrementalism. Better things stay the same or get worse than get better TOO SLOWLY! The funny thing is that this show doesn't even REALLY advocate for incrementalism, which is honestly what I worried its final message would be, it advocates for letting those that want revolutionary change have a seat at the negotiating table so their perspective isn't marginalized and the big changes out society needs become possible. Sam's speech explicitly includes a bit where he says elites arguing with each other about which flavor of incrementalism will do the least damage to themselves ain't it. And it does all this WHILE ALSO CONDEMNING SUPREMACISM so it doesn't even fall into the Both Sides trap!
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Apr 23, 2021 23:40
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I mean to be fair most people I know in this sphere actually do work so can't just say it's some C-SPAM posters. I'm just salty because I already got burnt out of my fandom for Pro-wrestling due to guilt.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:40
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achillesforever6 posted:I mean to be fair most people I know in this sphere actually do work so can't just say it's some C-SPAM posters. I'm just salty because I already got burnt out of my fandom for Pro-wrestling due to guilt. I know that feel. I skipped Wresltemania for the first time in almost a decade this year even though I'm subbed to Peacock. Feels bad. AEW is significantly LESS bad than most other companies though, with proactive social consciousness in a lot of their corporate decisions and working hard to make the company diverse (like, one of their top women's stars is a native american trans woman!). So that's nice! 
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Apr 23, 2021 23:44
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Sanguinia posted:If D&D is any indication, a lot of American Leftists have decided that the only thing they hate more than fascism AND status quo Centrism is Incrementalism. Better things stay the same or get worse than get better TOO SLOWLY! It's clumsy, but really makes a huge statement in favor of actual progress. I was shocked to hear it, and I expect more "get woke, go broke" and "cancel Disney+" content on social media.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:45
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Sanguinia posted:I know that feel. I skipped Wresltemania for the first time in almost a decade this year even though I'm subbed to Peacock. Feels bad. But thinking more it's hard to think of superhero media that would look good in an ongoing story that deals with a post revolution world. A lot of the stuff that makes superheroes media tick involves things that in a socialist/communist setting would be solved and a lot of the problems wouldn't be solved with fists and action.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:55
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It'll be nice to watch Loki the space alien having time variant adventures that don't directly reflect real world politics and ethics.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:57
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live with fruit posted:It'll be nice to watch Loki the space alien having time variant adventures that don't directly reflect real world politics and ethics. You willing to toxx over that
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Apr 23, 2021 23:59
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achillesforever6 posted:Oh I know AEW is good, I think I just got bitter that the thing I liked and was being called fash or a bad person for liking it. That and COVID 19 shows looking weird and plus I don't have cable I don't think its impossible to write a story like that, but I do think it'd be a lot more niche and a lot more politically volatile than any media company would want as their Mainline Continuity for a multi-media super franchise. Superman Red Son, especially the more recent animated version, does some very interesting stuff in terms of applying the ideas of the Superhero genre to a Communist/Socialist ideology without necessarily totally condemning that ideology (though certainly showing its negative side). Its flaws aside, I feel like its a good banner carrier for showing that you could do stories that put far-leftist ideologies, characters and settings in protagonist/positive roles and it can still be successful. Star Trek is another example, although I learned recently just how much a lot of communists apparently hate Star Trek because its secretly imperialist propaganda. So that's a thing.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:04
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On a less volatile note: Was the news anchor doing the voice over throughout this episode the loving Honest Trailers guy or am I losing my mind?
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Apr 24, 2021 00:07
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I'm down for a Cap 4 movie starring Anthony Mackie. Another series would be nice too, and I'd be surprised if they don't do one eventually, but it'll be fun to see what kind of good looking action spectacle and story they come up with in a movie format. I'm curious who they come up with for the main villain. Dr. Faustus comes to mind, but I think mass mind control would be too similar a dynamic to the Flag Smasher flash mobs.
NowonSA fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Apr 24, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2021 00:11
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Sanguinia posted:If D&D is any indication, a lot of American Leftists have decided that the only thing they hate more than fascism AND status quo Centrism is Incrementalism. Better things stay the same or get worse than get better TOO SLOWLY! Yeah. considering this is a marvel show I'm shocked it was as thoughtful as it was. Walker being Walker (aka not outright evil while still being a pos cop) was frustrating because it felt honest. Most of the people I see in D&D and on twitter who hate incrementalism are impatient white people. People complaining about them doing Peggy Carter dirty are missing the point too. I'm more interested in her now than her being Cap's second choice girlfriend.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:13
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Does Sam have any specific villains in the comics? Sharon as the main villain in CA4 makes sense but presumably she'd need some muscle.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:18
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J2DK posted:"get woke, go broke" Is that meme still a thing? I figured it died of embarrassment after Captain Marvel made a billion.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:18
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I'm excited for more MCU tv shows to take secondary characters I don't really care about and make me care about them
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Apr 24, 2021 00:19
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LionArcher posted:Yeah. considering this is a marvel show I'm shocked it was as thoughtful as it was. Walker being Walker (aka not outright evil while still being a pos cop) was frustrating because it felt honest. Most of the people I see in D&D and on twitter who hate incrementalism are impatient white people. I'm more sad about Sharon cuz she's actually one of my favourites from the comics, stemming from the same run that introduced Bucky as the Winter Soldier.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:21
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live with fruit posted:Does Sam have any specific villains in the comics? Sharon as the main villain in CA4 makes sense but presumably she'd need some muscle. Not really, he mostly shares Cap's Rogue's Gallery. The most famous story Sam had while he was Cap was Secret Empire, where he opposed Hydra Supreme, aka Hydra Steve. Somehow I doubt that's going to be the plot of Cap 4.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:21
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Sanguinia posted:Not really, he mostly shares Cap's Rogue's Gallery. The most famous story Sam had while he was Cap was Secret Empire, where he opposed Hydra Supreme, aka Hydra Steve. Somehow I doubt that's going to be the plot of Cap 4. You forgot about Safespace and Trigger Warning or whatever the gently caress they were called (god Nick Spencer is bad)
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Apr 24, 2021 00:22
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Its Rinaldo posted:I'm excited for more MCU tv shows to take secondary characters I don't really care about and make me care about them Who's even left at this point? After the announced tv shows that's pretty much every avenger getting their own show or movie. I guess Rhody and Pepper?
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Apr 24, 2021 00:24
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Thundercracker posted:Who's even left at this point? After the announced tv shows that's pretty much every avenger getting their own show or movie. I guess Rhody and Pepper? Rhodey's the main hero for the Armor Wars series.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:26
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Thundercracker posted:Who's even left at this point? After the announced tv shows that's pretty much every avenger getting their own show or movie. I guess Rhody and Pepper? Wong?
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Apr 24, 2021 00:29
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The real answer is a Young Isaiah Bradley show, with bonus Invaders.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:32
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live with fruit posted:Wong? I’d watch that.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:32
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achillesforever6 posted:God being a leftist can suck when I just want to enjoy my superhero media and then everyone I follow has to treat it like this is the most toxic imperialist propaganda that is poisoning our culture to be more and more neolib and fash. I would say the actual answer to that is the 1000000000 cop shows that have been on TV non stop since the 80s Same. I remember people trying to start poo poo before the series started because of the Flag-Smashers ("Disney is trying to portray anarchism negatively!"); they were poorly written but they weren't bad because of "politics", just bad writing. No joke I saw a tweet about the show portraying the cops as heroes...by just showing cops doing their job; a show doesn't need to be ACAB all day, sometimes cops do regular stuff.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:32
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VagueRant posted:Fundamental issue here is that our individualistic society cares more about one man pulling a trigger that kills one person, than a hundred men signing a bill that kills thousands of people. Yeah, that's pretty much most right voters in the US. I'm in the middle of the red-as-hell Midwest and most people would give you the shirt off their back if they can physically see that you need help. But if you're some unnamed refugee trying to make a better life for your family you can get hosed. More in line with the show though. Sam's Captain Falcon suit is proof that comic costumes don't directly port to live action well. Remove the strange balaclava and it gets way better.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:33
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Gaz-L posted:You forgot about Safespace and Trigger Warning or whatever the gently caress they were called (god Nick Spencer is bad) Americops and the Bombshells respectively were the fascist rentacops and feminist bomb chuckers who would be good friends with Karli during their hair braid socials.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:39
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I mean, I suppose the show, without comment, ending with the arrest of the FlagSmashers by Walker and the cops being portrayed as a good thing even though they literally never even tried to do anything villainous doesn't reflect well in the finale's favour, i honestly was more focused on the poorly paced and janky action and the extremely abbreviated plot beats. The epilogue was good poo poo but the rest of the episode seriously needed to catch it's breath, another ten minutes of runtime could have done wonders.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:43
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Thundercracker posted:Who's even left at this point? After the announced tv shows that's pretty much every avenger getting their own show or movie. I guess Rhody and Pepper? Parks and Rec type show with Luis and Crew from Ant Man 
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Apr 24, 2021 00:44
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Looking over Falcon's Wikipedia page, failing to save a senator from assassination and becoming unpopular seems like a logical storyline. That or him learning to talk to birds.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:49
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gently caress, Cap 4 really honing in on America's issues and having that Americop stuff go down and Cap fight against that would be wild. I can't imagine the mouse going for it, and it'd piss half the country off, but I'd be so on board to see Sam Wilson in full Cap attire swoop in to stop privately hired non-government cops from shooting a few black kids, then beating the crap out of them while under that thin veneer of "they aren't actual cops, it's a whole corporate structure of only bad apples!" to hide behind. Hell, add a regular-rear end cop trying to shield the kids with their body if you need to, I just wanna see Cap punching some folks who are virtually indistinguishable from cops. I remember those Sam Wilson Captain America comics went right on in with American racial issues and the police/justice system, and kudos to Marvel for that. I'm sure Cap 4 won't shy away from acknowledging that, but those comics went in on it HARD and I'd be shocked if they'd be willing to do it in a movie.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:52
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I will fight to the death in defense for Sam's strange balaclava. More funky comics attire, not less.
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Apr 24, 2021 01:25
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NowonSA posted:gently caress, Cap 4 really honing in on America's issues and having that Americop stuff go down and Cap fight against that would be wild. I can't imagine the mouse going for it, and it'd piss half the country off, but I'd be so on board to see Sam Wilson in full Cap attire swoop in to stop privately hired non-government cops from shooting a few black kids, then beating the crap out of them while under that thin veneer of "they aren't actual cops, it's a whole corporate structure of only bad apples!" to hide behind. Hell, add a regular-rear end cop trying to shield the kids with their body if you need to, I just wanna see Cap punching some folks who are virtually indistinguishable from cops. If the mouse company had any real cojones they'd just recreate this scene and just swap out Jim Kelly and add Cap/Sam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRY9dAqDLOQ
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Apr 24, 2021 01:25
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I was watching with closed captioning and I thought it was a nice touch that it says 'Captain America' instead of 'Sam' now.
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Apr 24, 2021 01:33
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radlum posted:
oh god.  I saw something like that. But with Wandavision. Someone decided Wandavision was cop propaganda.I tried to think as hard as possible, trying to find the cop propaganda in a show about trauma, loss, witches,lasers, and a government agency being assholes. Then I guess they meant Woo. A character. Who isn't even the main focus.
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Apr 24, 2021 01:44
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Desperado Bones posted:oh god. People still talk poo poo about how there's a positively portrayed CIA agent in Black Panther when the movie is 50% clowning on him, 40% clowning on Imperialism and Neo-Imperialism, and 10% that CIA agent saying with his own mouth that the CIA trains their agents to destablize governments and topple regimes.
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Apr 24, 2021 02:10
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You guys keep talking with nuance and we’re gonna get another drive-by “Bootlickers!” comment.
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Apr 24, 2021 02:19
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Also interfere with elections. I vividly remember it because it was the first time the MCU poo poo on a real American institution and it was like "Woah"
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Apr 24, 2021 02:20
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