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Aw man, I'd love Hell's Rebels as a game- Cheliax is so cartoonishly evil*, giving them a good stomp would be all kinds of  *Seriously, they're devil-worshipping Nazis!
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Apr 18, 2021 11:59
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I want Iron Gods so bad because I want to go absolutely all in on the Numerian Superscience in the hands of barbarians aesthetic. Just give me my Thundarr the Barbarian adpath, Owlcat. Do the needful.
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Apr 18, 2021 12:45
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So is there just effectively unlimited Pathfinder content for them to adapt? I’m always kind of shocked when I see again just how much is in the base game, and then mods add in like that much again.
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Apr 18, 2021 12:48
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Anno posted:So is there just effectively unlimited Pathfinder content for them to adapt? I’m always kind of shocked when I see again just how much is in the base game, and then mods add in like that much again. There are like 25 Adventure Paths Paizo has released the last 13-14 years, plus some smaller campaigns/modules. All these classes ,archetypes and mechanics are the result of expanding on the 3.5 ruleset for over a dozen years.
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Apr 18, 2021 13:33
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Pathfinder 1st Edition has 24 Adventure Paths (or APs- basically, premade adventures), 2 of which (Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous) have been made. Then there's the 2nd Ed stuff, which I haven't seen much of. And of course, there's the space-based spinoff Starfinder, which has its own APs.
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Apr 18, 2021 13:45
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SpaceDrake posted:I want Iron Gods so bad because I want to go absolutely all in on the Numerian Superscience in the hands of barbarians aesthetic. You might be in luck since Owlcat was hiring artists for a sci-fi setting. So it's likely that their next game is either Iron Gods or Starfinder.
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Apr 18, 2021 13:54
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Nephthys posted:You might be in luck since Owlcat was hiring artists for a sci-fi setting. So it's likely that their next game is either Iron Gods or Starfinder. I am going for the wild Warhammer guess.
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Apr 18, 2021 14:01
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Nephthys posted:You might be in luck since Owlcat was hiring artists for a sci-fi setting. So it's likely that their next game is either Iron Gods or Starfinder. I'm thinking Iron Gods- after all, Owlcat seems to be 'in' with Paizo and seem to want to identify with the Pathfinder brand, why change something that's working so far? Also, Kulgara romance or bust. Gimme my chainsword-wielding orc waifu, you cowards.
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Apr 18, 2021 16:34
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Personally I'd love to see them adapt Way of the Wicked (3rd party Pathfinder AP), but I'm not sure who owns those rights at the moment as that company basically imploded two books into their second AP. It's a very well done evil-focused adventure - certainly better done than Paizo's own - which involves conquering an island kingdom and then holding it. For more realistic options from Paizo, it'd be nice to see Curse of the Crimson Throne or Jade Regent. The latter is of course an AP with a secondary mechanic, and Owlcat seems to love those, while the first could absolutely have one integrated involving intrigue. Hell's Rebels would be another interesting one. Of course, as Nephthys mentioned they were hiring for a sci-fi game which probably points to Starfinder (or another franchise entirely). As for Iron Gods... one of the problems is that it's ultimately just a pretty straightforward dungeon crawl. You effectively have no home base and you just wander from place to place in Numeria doing something before moving on to the next area (exception being book 5/6 are in the same area), and relatedly basically have no real reoccurring NPCs aside from something you pick up in book 4. Another is that robots are just miserable to fight, particularly at low levels, because they're construct with hardness (generally 10) rather than DR. For those not familiar with hardness, it reduces ALL incoming damage by that amount (not just weapon damage like DR) - and yes, you run into multiple even in the first book. Given it applies to each instance of damage, early game ways around DR - like, say, Scorching Ray or Magic Missile - are basically worthless.
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Apr 18, 2021 17:43
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Okay you bring up Jade Regent as having a secondary mechanic, but it's also one they'd have to rebuild from the ground up. The caravan system simply doesn't function past the first AP book on table top. Though I guess they did radically retool mythic as well.
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Apr 18, 2021 17:52
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Terrible Opinions posted:Okay you bring up Jade Regent as having a secondary mechanic, but it's also one they'd have to rebuild from the ground up. The caravan system simply doesn't function past the first AP book on table top. Though I guess they did radically retool mythic as well. Perhaps if they just do it like Banner Saga and then dump you in villages and areas /dungeons where combat happens, it could work. Rather than extensive caravan management, just extended C&C sequences involving things that come up when you travel and where you choose to go. Though personally I would like one of the Urban APs. Hell's Rebels, Curse of Crimson throne or even council of thieves. Could shift focus into a more skill heavy approach where there will actually be solutions other than combat too. Not age of Decadence or anything, just more fleshed out sequences than they have in some of their storybook segments or in pillars games.
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Apr 18, 2021 18:06
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Terrible Opinions posted:Okay you bring up Jade Regent as having a secondary mechanic, but it's also one they'd have to rebuild from the ground up. The caravan system simply doesn't function past the first AP book on table top. Though I guess they did radically retool mythic as well. That's true of every single Pathfinder AP that I ran, as a player or DM, bar none. They want to do new things, go beyond "man stabs goblin" and conceptually it's generally good (my group *really* loved the Council of Thieves play, and I loved translating it for them for example) - but as functional game systems they're always, always, *always* at the very best barebones, untested crapola. Often worse. Ship combat is poo poo in Skulls & Shackles, caravan combat and trade mechanics in Jade Regent oscillate wildly between "pointless waste of time" and "gamebreakingly unbeatable" (and in either case, barely involve the PCs own skills and abilities at all), reputation and city fame is more or less pointless to track in Council of Thieves because I don't believe there really is a way to complete the AP without topping the chart (unless the DM works *hard* to let the group fail forward without ever resolving anything) etc etc. There are also a couple chase sequences in a pair of APs we ran back to back that I'm not sure any average group of murderhobos could possibly win - they work kind of like a Snakes & Ladders thing where you land on a square, An Event happens and if you succeed you go on to the next square and if you succeed really well you skip ahead and if you fail... well An Event happens again and you redo the roll, having lost a turn. The required skill checks are both all over the place *and* brutally hard, so that the NPCs (that are built to succeed at this silly side game and nothing else) have an unbeatable edge over any PC, and the players who don't even get to meaningfully help each other *or use their special abilities* within the confines of these minigames. It's like "oh, you don't have Animal Handling (goose) at +15 ? Whelp, you're done, maybe someone else will skip that square ! Oh they did, cool. Now, do *you* have either Perform(kazoo) or Ride(rubber chicken) at +30 ? Oh dear.". All of that while also bringing any kind of roleplaying and ambience to a screeching halt through sheer cumbersomeness & frustration of course. The Kingmaker kingdom management was no exception. As written, it managed to be both super time consuming, utterly uninteresting because the mechanically best choices are obvious, *and* gamebreakingly exploitable. Unsurprisingly, the system they built in the video game bears almost no resemblance to it (and, yeah, it's.. still not great/could have been better but trust me, it's still Casablanca to the AP's The Room). The mass combat system they ad hoc'd for the Pitax arc was similarly awful and uninteractive. Kobal2 fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 18:31
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Yeah, I didn't necessarily mean the caravan rules as directly implemented from the AP, but rather as a sort of mobile base you can add wagons (features, bonuses and/or NPCs) onto as you move along the path. Basically the core conceit of the system rather than Paizo's mess. Sort of like how I'm hoping here in WotR, if they keep the Iomedae encounter at all, they rebuild it based on the DM advice for the encounter rather than the actual mechanics. Because the setting the scene advice is actually rather good and cool, whereas the mechanics are straight up garbage that pissed off a lot of players and spun off jokes that persist whenever the AP's brought up.
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Apr 18, 2021 18:55
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Generally speaking I hear nothing but bad things about Wrath of the Righteous as an AP except "the concept is cool" and "it had so much promise" so, the less Owlcat feels constrained by it the better.
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Apr 18, 2021 19:00
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Captain Oblivious posted:Generally speaking I hear nothing but bad things about Wrath of the Righteous as an AP except "the concept is cool" and "it had so much promise" so, the less Owlcat feels constrained by it the better. Just by having the outsider mythic approach and enabling evil playthroughs, they have crushed constraints pretty spectacularly.
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Apr 18, 2021 19:17
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Captain Oblivious posted:Generally speaking I hear nothing but bad things about Wrath of the Righteous as an AP except "the concept is cool" and "it had so much promise" so, the less Owlcat feels constrained by it the better. I feel like Owlcat have shown in how they've adapted Kingmaker and WotR that they know when to make some big changes to make the game better. The Mythic system is extremely improved from everything I've heard which is I believe the main criticism for Wrath and they also quite drastically reworked Kingmaker to directly address criticisms for it too. The thread has inspired me to do some more reading into the various AP's and man they really are quite spoiled for choice in getting the Pathfinder license, they have a huge range of genre's across all the APs. Mummy's Mask also looks really fun, I love eqyptian tomb raiding. Maybe the big improvement for that one is that they figure out a way to make traps actually interesting, lol. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 19:37
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Nephthys posted:I feel like Owlcat have shown in how they've adapted Kingmaker and WotR that they know when to make some big changes to make the game better. The Mythic system is extremely improved from everything I've heard which is I believe the main criticism for Wrath and they also quite drastically reworked Kingmaker to directly address criticisms for it too. The main problem with Mythic as a system is that going from no Mythic rank to Mythic Rank 1 is generally a huge jump in versatility (and therefore power) - spellcasters will generally get the ability to spontaneously cast any spell from their spell list, which is fantastic for prepared spellcasters for obvious reasons, but just as good for spontaneous casters (doesn't have to be one of your spells known). The remaining gamut of Mythic abilities vary wildly in power and utility, but "5x/day any spell" is substantial and it's entry level for every mythic caster. Climbing the rest of the ranks from 1-10 is a lot more incremental by comparison, and the power gap between casters and martials gets even wider.
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Apr 18, 2021 20:39
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Kobal2 posted:The Kingmaker kingdom management was no exception. As written, it managed to be both super time consuming, utterly uninteresting because the mechanically best choices are obvious, *and* gamebreakingly exploitable. The mass combat system they ad hoc'd for the Pitax arc was similarly awful and uninteractive. Conversely, if you had someone who was willing to wrangle the rules for everyone else so that only one person had to know them well, and your group doesn't give a poo poo about the mechanically optimal outcomes, it was super fun. Our group had so much fun roleplaying our newly-founded kingdom that we spent multiple sessions in a row sometimes doing nothing but kingdom turns. We each had our own cities and armies, loaned each other money for big projects, voted on issues that affected the kingdom as a whole, etc. And I whipped up a spreadsheet to do all the math for us with a button press.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:27
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Nephthys posted:The thread has inspired me to do some more reading into the various AP's and man they really are quite spoiled for choice in getting the Pathfinder license, they have a huge range of genre's across all the APs. Mummy's Mask also looks really fun, I love eqyptian tomb raiding. Maybe the big improvement for that one is that they figure out a way to make traps actually interesting, lol. I just hope they keep making games like this. It won't happen, because people get bored doing they same thing over and over, but I can hope.
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Apr 19, 2021 05:25
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rojay posted:I didn't see that one, but I remember doing research into the various adventure paths before they announced Wrath. I read a number of them in outline, and Rise of the Runelords looked pretty interesting. Well all the AP's are on the wiki: https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Adventure_Path If you're interested I also found a popular thread with a guy doing brief reviews of each AP : https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/ezzosp/tomoderas_updated_review_of_all_pathfinder_aps/ Yeah, I feel like I'm almost teasing myself for getting excited over them. I really rooting for Owlcat to adapt a few more of them at least.
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Apr 19, 2021 13:54
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are Demon and Swarm both Chaotic Evil paths? I thought it was neat each alignment had one path, except for CE it seems
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Apr 19, 2021 15:32
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From what I understand you can basically play Demon one of two ways: A) Classic CE demon overlord wannabe B) Featuring DANTE from the Devil May Cry series
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Apr 19, 2021 15:33
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Goa Tse-tung posted:are Demon and Swarm both Chaotic Evil paths? I thought it was neat each alignment had one path, except for CE it seems Each path has at least two varied ways to go through, but as far as target alignment/feel of a route goes: 
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Apr 19, 2021 15:36
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Swarm's more neutral evil than chaotic, in that it just wants to devour everything. It's also been described as the pure evil path, so even in a game where the various paths are going to have branching options as to how you represent it (for example, angel of mercy vs. vengeance) you're basically locked to playing an evil monster with Swarm (though as a late-game path, you know what you're getting into). Demon's a bit more nuanced, in that you are basically going to be chaotic regardless, but you can choose to stick more to the neutral side of things rather than sliding full-on into evil (though that's obviously an option). Or at least that's how I understand things.
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Apr 19, 2021 15:42
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i always thought undead were more neutral evil
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Apr 19, 2021 16:01
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was the Devil path a meme all along
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Apr 21, 2021 19:44
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frajaq posted:was the Devil path a meme all along It's a unique case sine you can only enter it from two paths, apparently. And unlike Swarm/Gold dragon that were promised as a kickstarter bonus, Devil is kinda a secret route.
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Apr 21, 2021 21:36
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I can't help but be suspicious Owlcat was mentioning a future project in their latest Kickstarter update. Here, regarding the beta update and the stretch goal intelligent weapon: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/3166624 In the brief video interviewing the weapon, it mentions wanting to explore Azlant, the majestic drowned ruins... and funnily enough Ruins of Azlant is indeed an AP. It could just be fluff, but that's an incredibly specific and hard place to visit. Because Azlant is basically Atlantis with all that entails (it's literally in the middle of the ocean, nowhere near anything particularly inhabited).
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Apr 23, 2021 00:39
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Lord Koth posted:I can't help but be suspicious Owlcat was mentioning a future project in their latest Kickstarter update. If WotR makes the same kind of money and the fanbase is there is makes sense to use the game engine they finally got working from KM to make more AP games. Its like the modern version of the infinity engine.
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Apr 23, 2021 00:47
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Eh, I'm not sure I want to see them do Ruins of Azlant. The adventure path is pretty good (my group is going through it now and we've really enjoyed it), but an awful lot of it takes place underwater, which means 3D positioning. Theoretically, they could just ignore that for the most part and make everything just another 2D map, but it would lose something in translation IMO. The first time you go underwater and realize that you now have 26 adjacent squares to worry about instead of 8 is quite something.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:32
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I haven't been keeping up with Wrath much. Does it have an expected release band? This year, I think, but is there anything more specific than that? I looked, but I didn't find anything either way.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:51
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To my knowledge they haven’t yet deviated from “summer”. The next beta update in early May apparently contains the shipping UI, so I guess things are progressing.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:57
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Officially the release date is still June, but pretty sure most predictions have that being pushed back at least a month or two - especially given the second beta isn't releasing until May 5. I suppose the second beta could be incredibly polished though.pentyne posted:If WotR makes the same kind of money and the fanbase is there is makes sense to use the game engine they finally got working from KM to make more AP games. Its like the modern version of the infinity engine. Oh, certainly. Even aside from the sci-fi title, whatever it might be (probably Starfinder, but no guarantee), WotR has been looking good enough and attracting enough interest that more games are probable. I was just speculating on whether they were obliquely saying what the next one would be.
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Apr 23, 2021 05:13
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Anno posted:To my knowledge they haven’t yet deviated from “summer”. The next beta update in early May apparently contains the shipping UI, so I guess things are progressing. Yeah, but unless they get it right straight out the gate I can't see buying it before the enhanced edition or at the very least seeing reviews that say it's far better then the KM launch. The difference between base KM and the final version seem so extreme they're practically different games. Maybe the launch state has been exaggerated but every time I've seen it mentioned it's pretty major "wtf this is broken" terms. Someone mentioned up thread at launch the game wasn't even beatable until they fixed it some time after release.
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Apr 23, 2021 07:16
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i dont know if i'll wait for the enhanced edition but i might wait for the bag of tricks mod
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Apr 24, 2021 01:21
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cuntman.net posted:i dont know if i'll wait for the enhanced edition but i might wait for the bag of tricks mod There's already one of the beta so hopefully it'll be available on release this time.
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Apr 24, 2021 01:45
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pentyne posted:Yeah, but unless they get it right straight out the gate I can't see buying it before the enhanced edition or at the very least seeing reviews that say it's far better then the KM launch. The difference between base KM and the final version seem so extreme they're practically different games. Maybe the launch state has been exaggerated but every time I've seen it mentioned it's pretty major "wtf this is broken" terms. At the very least, the part available in the beta is more playable than the first game was on release (or, indeed, for the first couple months it was out). A fair amount of placeholder stuff still though, especially with the war mechanic.
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Apr 24, 2021 05:17
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lmao holy poo poo. Despite doing everything "right", near as I can tell, concerning Elina and Ekun, when I try to get him to turn away from revenge hell murder forever, he attacks me instead of backing down. I guess it's because I brought him to virtually every major story beat and wasn't ~~lawful~~ enough and got his affinity for me down or something. And there was no indication of this beforehand and there seems to be no way to "force" it or correct it in Bag of Tricks. This sure feels great and not like a waste of dozens of hours since I actually care about this character and want him to get a happy ending.
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Apr 26, 2021 10:31
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SpaceDrake posted:lmao holy poo poo. Despite doing everything "right", near as I can tell, concerning Elina and Ekun, when I try to get him to turn away from revenge hell murder forever, he attacks me instead of backing down. I guess it's because I brought him to virtually every major story beat and wasn't ~~lawful~~ enough and got his affinity for me down or something. And there was no indication of this beforehand and there seems to be no way to "force" it or correct it in Bag of Tricks. This sure feels great and not like a waste of dozens of hours since I actually care about this character and want him to get a happy ending. I think in the base version if you hosed up hard enough you can literally lose all your party members when you hit the final dungeon, so the game is absolutely impossible at that point. Their fix was to add the guy with the hire-able NPCs to that location so you could exit and have to hire and equip a completely silent party to finish out the game.
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Apr 26, 2021 10:40
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:23 |
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Quick Q for those who are in the beta : are they also artifacts scattered about in a million pieces in demonland ? For some reason I was really fond of that (even if I was disappointed time and again when I thought "hey, another one, even number now, surely that's all of them ?")
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Apr 26, 2021 12:19
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