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twistedmentat posted:I'm watching Lemmino's video on Flight 370 That's an interesting watch, there's a whole lot of ambiguity and uncertainty in the observations but the last-minute addendum of a possible turn towards Christmas Island feels like it makes a lot of sense as a hijacking scenario rather than just making random turns heading indefinitely off over the ocean. It's been long enough that I don't remember if anything came of it, though. Also relevant to the thread, watching that pointed me to an interesting Bermuda Triangle video from the same channel. Seems like they're worth a subscribe.
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Apr 27, 2021 03:51
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Watching another one about the lost Roanoke colony, I'm amazed at the number of accounts I've read of the mysterious CROATOAN carving that failed to mention that the Roanoke folks had a predetermined plan to leave a notice if they had to move somewhere else, and that there was a nearby Croatoan island   
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Apr 27, 2021 05:31
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Not exactly conspiracies but crazy theories I like are: The pyramid stones were poured like concrete https://youtu.be/ccebzy8c6lE The nazca lines were created with help from air balloons https://youtu.be/FWKlRR3W9qs Water erosion on the sphinx proves it was built in 10,000 bce or older https://youtu.be/7iAr4_o_XAM
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Apr 27, 2021 06:09
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Captain Hygiene posted:Watching another one about the lost Roanoke colony, I'm amazed at the number of accounts I've read of the mysterious CROATOAN carving that failed to mention that the Roanoke folks had a predetermined plan to leave a notice if they had to move somewhere else, and that there was a nearby Croatoan island Here it is again - it's a great story until you learn about the above. And then it's no mystery at all. Regarding the Bermuda Triangle, I believe the correct statement is that the Triangle has about about as many disappearances, shipwrecks etc. as you'd expect for an area with that much traffic. It's a fairly busy set of sealanes, lots of flights passing over, and lots of civilian and recreational traffic. Coupled with storms and the tendency of investigators to pull in cases that are even lightly connected*, there's not a lot of mystery**. * Recall there was a study that looked at where some classic BT cases actually occurred and a lot of them were planes or ships that passed through the area or were due to, but came to a bad end elsewhere. One case was even a child that disappeared in Canada. ** There's still odd things that we can't explain or have to speculate about, as you'd expect. Submarine earthquakes, rogue waves, or wacky but plausible things like Flight 19, who may have lost their bearings and ended up flying upside down ... nonathlon has a new favorite as of 13:05 on Apr 27, 2021 |
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Apr 27, 2021 08:00
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Quid posted:Water erosion on the sphinx proves it was built in 10,000 bce or older That's an interesting one. The erosion damage is controversial (the Sphinx was carved in place, so it's made of different types of rocks) but there's no records of its construction and even the late Egyptians were mystified by it.
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Apr 27, 2021 08:18
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Captain Hygiene posted:That's an interesting watch, there's a whole lot of ambiguity and uncertainty in the observations but the last-minute addendum of a possible turn towards Christmas Island feels like it makes a lot of sense as a hijacking scenario rather than just making random turns heading indefinitely off over the ocean. It's been long enough that I don't remember if anything came of it, though. Yea, its really weird, from the information we have. You'd think if there was a hijacking there would be some communications with demands at some point. It could have been instrument failure, like the GPS or some other direction finding gear went crazy and they followed it not bothering to check their surroundings otherwise and not communicating. A strange thing I thought was no one thought to make a call. i know its illegal to make cellphone calls while on an airplane but if you're being hijacked or there's something wrong i don't think any FAA or similar organization is going to get after you for calling someone and saying "hey some guys took over my flight" over the phone. It's just so weird and the little info we have could be a huge number of things. And yea the bermuda triangle video is great, i really love his analysis of the Navy Dive Bombers that vanished, how it seems like the guy who was in charge of it was confused where he was and assumed something was wrong with his instruments, because he for some reason thought he was on the gulf coast not the atlantic coast. A lot of woo belivers talk about the malfunctioning instruments as proof of something mysterious going on, and not some guy not knowing where he is. "Google maps are broken, its saying i'm in Manhatten when i'm clearly in Queens!" used as proof when you can see the Empire State Building from where you're standing. And yea, the Roanoak colony isn't really a mystery. Like its sort of a mystery of what happened, like what caused them to abandon the settlement, but its not a mystery like they were attacked by Bigfoots or something. Most mysteries are often not raelly mysteries if you actually go and look into the facts. Dyavolov Pass mystery likes to bring up that some of the clothes were found to be radio active, not mentioning two of the people involved worked in places they would come into contact with radioactive material. I lightly recomend watching his video on DB Cooper and his ones on the alien sightings. Both are extremely informative, and they're some of the best breakdowns i've seen on the subject. One of the few, i guess out there beliefs i guess is the best term, is I do believe there may be civilizations older than we think have existed. That being said, i don't think they ever reached any higher levels of technology as maybe basic metallurgy and pottery, as if they never got out of the first few turns of a game of Civ. But they're unknown because they existed so long ago their cities and artifacts are long, long gone. Either they were swallowed up by the deserts and jungles or they are in places that are now underwater, or maybe the civilizations that came after them tore them down or built on top of them? Think about how the mesoamerican civs were almost invisible in the jungle after a few centuries, think about millennia. No aliens, no super smart ancient man, just that people figured out farming and stuff earlier than we think of now. Maybe they build the sphinx and some of the other weird poo poo that we can't really attribute to a known civ. Like the Works of the Old Men which are in the Arabian Desert. Someone clearly made them, but no one knows who, and the people who have lived in that area straight up say they have no idea who made them,
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Apr 27, 2021 09:32
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twistedmentat posted:I lightly recomend watching his video on DB Cooper and his ones on the alien sightings. Both are extremely informative, and they're some of the best breakdowns i've seen on the subject. Speaking of DB Cooper I watched BBC Storyville's The Hijacker Who Vanished: The Mystery of DB Cooper a while ago. Really interesting watch because it's main focus, alongside telling the story of DB Cooper and what he did, is about the people who say they knew him. Not so much trying to explain everything, or try to solve the mystery, but still a good watch.
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Apr 27, 2021 10:50
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nonathlon posted:That's an interesting one. The erosion damage is controversial (the Sphinx was carved in place, so it's made of different types of rocks) but there's no records of its construction and even the late Egyptians were mystified by it. Yea. That's one of those Graham Hancock things where you're like that is weird and interesting if true, but he follows up with
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Apr 27, 2021 10:57
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Captain Hygiene posted:Watching another one about the lost Roanoke colony, I'm amazed at the number of accounts I've read of the mysterious CROATOAN carving that failed to mention that the Roanoke folks had a predetermined plan to leave a notice if they had to move somewhere else, and that there was a nearby Croatoan island Yep. Lots of archeology happening re: Roanoke. Yet another "it's neither aliens, Sasquatch, nor Irish monks". https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/06/study-suggests-the-mystery-of-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke-solved/133847 Et al.
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Apr 27, 2021 12:57
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Quid posted:The nazca lines were created with help from air balloons If it's not "aliens" (disregarding the ingenuity of indigenous folk) it's always the most complicated explanation possible. That one gave me a brain tumor. https://www.machutravelperu.com/blog/how-were-the-nazca-lines-made
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Apr 27, 2021 13:13
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nonathlon posted:** There's still odd things that we can't explain or have to speculate about, as you'd expect. Submarine earthquakes, rogue waves, or wacky but plausible things like Flight 19, who may have lost their bearings and ended up flying upside down ... My favorite Bermuda triangle thing (that's actually a mystery, even!) is the guy who went searching for Flight 19 and found a group of 5 crashed Avengers under water... that weren't Flight 19. Graham Hawkes, apparently, when I looked it up on Wikipedia.
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Apr 27, 2021 16:39
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Captain Hygiene posted:Watching another one about the lost Roanoke colony, I'm amazed at the number of accounts I've read of the mysterious CROATOAN carving that failed to mention that the Roanoke folks had a predetermined plan to leave a notice if they had to move somewhere else, and that there was a nearby Croatoan island nonathlon posted:Here it is again - it's a great story until you learn about the above. And then it's no mystery at all. twistedmentat posted:And yea, the Roanoak colony isn't really a mystery. Like its sort of a mystery of what happened, like what caused them to abandon the settlement, but its not a mystery like they were attacked by Bigfoots or something. Most mysteries are often not raelly mysteries if you actually go and look into the facts. Dyavolov Pass mystery likes to bring up that some of the clothes were found to be radio active, not mentioning two of the people involved worked in places they would come into contact with radioactive material. Yeah cryptozoology/paranormal/UFO stuff usually has a lot in common with conspiracy theories because they both work via the same mechanisms: some has a theory about something which can never be fully proved, but on the other hand it can never be fully disproved either and that means they're free to make up any old poo poo they like about it and even if someone could disprove any element of their theory they'd just incorporate that and shift the goalposts for the rest of their weird theory. Unsupported ideas which seem to explain some aspect of the mystery eventually get passed around so often that they become the standard explanation and become widely accepted - a good example is the "midtarsal break" hypothesis which explains why many alleged bigfoot footprints have a ridge in the centre. There's no recorded evidence that shows how bigfoots supposedly walk so there's zero evidence supporting the midtarsal break idea but squatchers just won't fuckin' shut up about it.  There's usually a bunch of actual conspiracy theories attached to paranormal/cryptid stories as well - men in black are covering up UFO evidence, the forestry department is hiding evidence of bigfoot, the Smithsonian had a whole bunch of giant humanoid skeletons but threw them in the sea, etc etc etc.. That Hellier documentary series is another good example, every time things didn't work out the way they wanted they'd assume it was because of a conspiracy. One day they talked to some townsfolk who had lots of weird stories but the next time they talked to some other people who didn't have any stories - they were lying! Conspiracy! The weird "spirit box" "evidence" they collected didn't seem to lead anywhere, so obviously the 'entity' they were communicating with was trying to confuse them and lead them away from the truth. Conspiracy! The emails that set off the entire investigation originally were sent from different IPs, therefore the sender must have been using a VPN to hide his real location. Conspiracy! Etc etc etc
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Apr 27, 2021 17:14
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Otteration posted:Yep. Lots of archeology happening re: Roanoke. Yet another "it's neither aliens, Sasquatch, nor Irish monks". There were also reports from the local natives re: the Roanoke colony both contemporaneous and oral histories, but what would they know, seeing as they saw the whole thing go down? Must be ~aliens~! 
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Apr 28, 2021 00:24
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:There's no recorded evidence that shows how bigfoots supposedly walk so there's zero evidence supporting the midtarsal break idea but squatchers just won't fuckin' shut up about it. It's also a total coincidence that a giant flat stomper will also produce a "midtarsal break" ...
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Apr 28, 2021 01:40
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah cryptozoology/paranormal/UFO stuff usually has a lot in common with conspiracy theories because they both work via the same mechanisms Now that's a connection I haven't fully made until but it makes a lot sense, as both areas does require you to suspend or disregard logic in order to believe its true.
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Apr 28, 2021 10:58
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twistedmentat posted:One of the few, i guess out there beliefs i guess is the best term, is I do believe there may be civilizations older than we think have existed. That being said, i don't think they ever reached any higher levels of technology as maybe basic metallurgy and pottery, as if they never got out of the first few turns of a game of Civ. But they're unknown because they existed so long ago their cities and artifacts are long, long gone. Either they were swallowed up by the deserts and jungles or they are in places that are now underwater, or maybe the civilizations that came after them tore them down or built on top of them? Think about how the mesoamerican civs were almost invisible in the jungle after a few centuries, think about millennia. No aliens, no super smart ancient man, just that people figured out farming and stuff earlier than we think of now. Maybe they build the sphinx and some of the other weird poo poo that we can't really attribute to a known civ., It’s really, really unlikely that there were earlier “forgotten” periods of plant domestication or pottery generation before the Neolithic revolution. For one thing the climate of the earth in the Paleolithic wasn’t well suited to agriculture, and it was very well suited for big game hunting and gathering. Human populations were low enough that people didn’t need, by and large, to live in marginal areas, and initial agriculture is usually an adaptation to marginal zones where hunting and gathering is a hassle. Pottery preserves very well and is really easy to date. There’s no known instance of a population developing agriculture and then abandoning in total it for any reason. Domestication of plants would would be discernible in the genetic evidence, I’m not aware of any such evidence. Farming is a huge competitive advantage because it allows for high population densities and occupational specialization, the prerequisites of forming “armies” as such. You can keep going like this all day but basically, it didn’t happen
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Apr 28, 2021 15:05
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DeimosRising posted:It’s really, really unlikely that there were earlier “forgotten” periods of plant domestication or pottery generation before the Neolithic revolution. For one thing the climate of the earth in the Paleolithic wasn’t well suited to agriculture, and it was very well suited for big game hunting and gathering. Human populations were low enough that people didn’t need, by and large, to live in marginal areas, and initial agriculture is usually an adaptation to marginal zones where hunting and gathering is a hassle. Pottery preserves very well and is really easy to date. There’s no known instance of a population developing agriculture and then abandoning in total it for any reason. Domestication of plants would would be discernible in the genetic evidence, I’m not aware of any such evidence. Farming is a huge competitive advantage because it allows for high population densities and occupational specialization, the prerequisites of forming “armies” as such. You can keep going like this all day but basically, it didn’t happen You make good points but: * Like paleontology, a lot of what we dig up is down to chance. Is there a site where remains will be preserved and be found again? There are several early civilizations in Africa that we know next to nothing about - it's hard to access, far away, and deep in the jungle or desert, it might never be found. * There's a strand of anthropological thought that absolutely holds with independent parallel invention of key innovations. If fire / pottery / etc. can be discovered and rediscovered multiple times, why couldn't one of those times be much earlier? (I'm not utterly convinced by this idea that "suddenly everyone discovered fire" but it's an article of faith amongst some experts.) * The abandonment of agriculture and collapse of proto-cities seems to have occurred - it took humans several goes to get agriculture right. Exactly why is still up for discussion, but it's far from a Jared Diamond case that "agriculture is obviously good and useful". All this is complicated by arguments as to what constitutes "agriculture": https://io9.gizmodo.com/how-farming-almost-destroyed-human-civilization-1659734601 https://environment.yale.edu/envy/stories/when-civilizations-collaps https://www.seeker.com/how-farming-almost-destroyed-ancient-human-civilization-1769295252.html Is there some super-civilization in the ancient past? Probably not, for the reasons you suggest. But were there slightly earlier civilizations that fell, were forgotten, got absorbed? Seems likely but also probably unknowable.
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Apr 28, 2021 16:11
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So, back to mysteries: the Plain of Jars: https://www.livescience.com/plain-of-jars-burial-site-true-age.htmlquote:The mysterious Plain of Jars in northern Laos — a landscape dotted with massive stone jars hewn from sandstone thousands of years ago — was likely used as a burial site for much longer than previously suspected, and perhaps for up to 2,000 years, according to new research. It's a bit of an Easter island-like mystery - large stone jars appear to have been dragged some miles and then sat on the plain before, perhaps 1000 years later, someone uses them for burial. Two mysteries for the price of one.
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Apr 28, 2021 16:25
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nonathlon posted:You make good points but: Fire, pottery, and agriculture were all definitely invented independently multiple times. And habitation sites were abandoned all the time, of course. But no population has ever totally abandoned agriculture. Many early Neolithic groups moved back and forth between sedentary agriculture and periods of seasonal transhumance, probably mostly influenced by the rapid climate shifts during the younger dryas and early Holocene. Some adopted permanent transhumance focused on animal husbandry with localized agriculture. But there’s no indication they ever outright stopped cultivating crops once they had been domesticated. Those articles are a bit sensationalist, as you might expect from pop archaeology. In both the Levant and, for example, the Indus Valley, or NE China (where I did my doctoral research), or southern Columbia, people stopped aggregating in really large settlements at times and redistributed to smaller villages or what we might call an “evener” distribution over the landscape in response to climate changes and developing subsistence technologies, but populations just kept rising and they never lost social complexity or agriculture. Monocropping is definitely really bad for your health, but it never threatened to “destroy” any population. Life expectancy dropped in many places though, for a lot of reasons
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Apr 28, 2021 20:36
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nonathlon posted:So, back to mysteries: the Plain of Jars: https://www.livescience.com/plain-of-jars-burial-site-true-age.html What's the mystery? That people couldn't have dragged stone jars or Moai around?
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Apr 28, 2021 20:58
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I imagine even if you are literally just sitting there banging wheat out of the ground, you're still gathering wild fruits and shooting the occasional wandering animal so you would not have pellagra or anything unless there was a shortage.
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Apr 28, 2021 21:01
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DeimosRising posted:Fire, pottery, and agriculture were all definitely invented independently multiple times. And habitation sites were abandoned all the time, of course. But no population has ever totally abandoned agriculture. Many early Neolithic groups moved back and forth between sedentary agriculture and periods of seasonal transhumance, probably mostly influenced by the rapid climate shifts during the younger dryas and early Holocene. Some adopted permanent transhumance focused on animal husbandry with localized agriculture. But there’s no indication they ever outright stopped cultivating crops once they had been domesticated. Yep, and lots of groups of people in a particular area at any given time we're not monolithic (hah!). Some folks living around Stonehenge at its height were hunter gatherers, some were flint workers, and some were copper and iron smiths. The Amazon civilizations abandoned agriculture, but not voluntarily, of course. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/amazon-terra-preta-to-find-ancient-civilizations
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Apr 28, 2021 21:14
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Otteration posted:What's the mystery? That people couldn't have dragged stone jars or Moai around? It's not particularly Easter Island-y, as far as I know. The mystery is that we don't know who made the jars ~3,000 years ago and then who, ~1700 years later, started burying people in them for 600 years or so. They may be cultures we already know about - in fact, the second may be a descendant culture of the first - but we don't really know anything about them except the jars and the burials. e: The persisting mystery on Rapa Nui/Easter Island is Rongorongo, the islanders' pre-contact writing system. By the time Rongorongo was recognized as important by Europeans, there was no longer anyone left on the island (thanks to their disinterest and Peruvian murderousness) who knew how to read them - and most of the tablets containing the script had gone missing. So 
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Apr 28, 2021 21:27
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nonathlon posted:So, back to mysteries: the Plain of Jars: https://www.livescience.com/plain-of-jars-burial-site-true-age.html I always found these extremely creepy. And I'm not saying 100% there are lots civilizations out there that are older than we think civilization is but I mark that as the most plausible out of everything. It's also possible that a known civ evolved out of a unknown civ, either from conquest, assimilation or other means.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:20
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While ancient world chat is going on, people might want to keep an eye out later this year for David Graeber and David Wengrow's new book The Dawn of Everything: A new history of humanity. Less about previously unknown cultures, more about looking differently at the development of the ones we already know about.
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Apr 29, 2021 23:28
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A very coincidentally-timed episode of Monstrum just went up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZhrOnxbccY
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Apr 30, 2021 03:16
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Knormal posted:A very coincidentally-timed episode of Monstrum just went up. Well, this is certainly the stuff of nightmares. This is the kind of thing that would terrify me as a kid, and even as an adult I'm still like "gently caress that poo poo"
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Apr 30, 2021 03:27
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Rascar Capac posted:While ancient world chat is going on, people might want to keep an eye out later this year for David Graeber and David Wengrow's new book The Dawn of Everything: A new history of humanity. Less about previously unknown cultures, more about looking differently at the development of the ones we already know about. Hope it's good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Graeber
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Apr 30, 2021 07:22
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Knormal posted:A very coincidentally-timed episode of Monstrum just went up. Could have been a dingo. Or maybe maybe their memories are better than ours: https://theconversation.com/ancient-aboriginal-stories-preserve-history-of-a-rise-in-sea-level-36010
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Apr 30, 2021 07:43
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I figured this may be the best thread to talk about this because it's one of the funnier things to happen in Indonesia recently. So for context, a Babi Ngepet is a pig or a boar, a supernatural form invoked by dark magic users to steal money by rubbing the sides of the pig to a house wall. You have to be naked to catch it because clothes only make it slippery and hard to catch. If you catch the Babi Ngepet and slaughter it, it will transform into a human. I didn't make these rules. In Bedahan, West Jawa of Indonesia, a local Islamic spiritual leader, Ustaz Adam Ibrahim informed his village that they were under assault of a Babi Ngepet. This worried everyone, because not only is the pig a haram creature in Islam, they also didn't want their money stolen. And there were money mysteriously missing for some reason. This resulted in (allegedly) seven men stripping themselves naked and catching an actual wild boar.  Adam Ibrahim brought the pig to the middle of the village and created a whole commotion, with the whole village coming out to witness this pig getting slaughtered and revealing the horrific human thief stealing their cash.  Adam Ibrahim loudly demanded if the Babi Ngepet had any loved ones in the audience, which of course nobody admitted.  At the same time, this woman, Ibu Wati, proudly ran around telling everyone that the pig was not only a real Babi Ngepet, but it belonged to her (alleged) neighbour who was rich but never worked a day of his life.  With more and more people arriving to know the fate of the Babi Ngepet and their money, they all decided, yes, this pig shall die. In a burst of religious zeal and righteousness, they slaughtered this pig in broad daylight and to the surprise of the village (and likely nobody else), no human thief emerged from the corpse of the pig. https://twitter.com/AangSurya12/status/1387848472217276416 This created a lot of confusion and anger among the villagers, and people got so pissed that they made police reports against Adam Ibrahim. To the surprise of everyone, the police did turn up to investigate the issue and put Adam Ibrahim under deep questioning, which resulted in him confessing that he opps, made poo poo up! https://twitter.com/Andy_Art80/status/1387671519669547008 Why did he do this? It's to make himself famous and more popular in the village (literally this was his only reasoning). He's sentenced to (supposedly) ten years' prison for "spreading fake news".  https://twitter.com/jnessy_/status/1387633555925204994 Remember Ibu Wati, who had no involvement in the scheme but was insistent that not only was the Babi Ngepet real but also the actual thief? She got exiled from the village because everyone was so pissed at her. (It isn't clear who stole the money, or if the money was actually really missing). https://twitter.com/nuicemedia/status/1387699740536619009?s=19 The pig was in fact bought online from the farm of someone who didn't even know what was going on. https://twitter.com/Gonzaga127/status/1387927483962466311?s=19 Anyway that's it for the Babi Ngepet, a horrible pig thief that steals money which requires you to be naked to capture it, and will reveal a human thief when you slaughter it, unless it's a rumour concocted by a guy who wants more twitter followers! https://twitter.com/iyamrenzia/status/1387687501033218049?s=19 The Saddest Rhino has a new favorite as of 09:19 on Apr 30, 2021 |
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Apr 30, 2021 09:09
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That is all incredibly Scooby Doo.
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Apr 30, 2021 09:15
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Thank you so much for posting this, reading this was truly an emotional roller coaster. I guess the moral here is "Don't lie about magic pigs" which is a moral that might not apply to very many situations but it's an important lesson none the less.
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Apr 30, 2021 09:29
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That's a great story  Space Cadet Omoly posted:I guess the moral here is "Don't lie about magic pigs" 
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Apr 30, 2021 10:02
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I love every bit of folklore I've ever heard from Southeast Asia. Even, no, perhaps especially, weird magic pigs made up by religious leaders for twitter followers (though I think it must be stressed that the pig itself is a real part of Javanese folklore, it's just this particular pig that's a fraud). Not from Indonesia, but my personal favorite Southeast Asian legendary creature/maybe cryptid? is the Aswang from the Philippines, which is the subject of this documentary that I find really entertaining. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ePhqoyLpXQ
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May 1, 2021 04:15
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Awww, I was hoping it was just a straight up fearsome critter tale that dude spun up. As a side note I think The Pig Thieves would be a good name for a band. Or a weird arthouse movie.
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May 1, 2021 04:19
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Whats the SEA monster that's a womans head flying around with her organs hanging down?
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May 1, 2021 05:14
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twistedmentat posted:Whats the SEA monster that's a womans head flying around with her organs hanging down? She's real, and strong, and she's my friend
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May 1, 2021 05:30
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Captain Hygiene posted:She's real, and strong, and she's my friend Oh! drat how'd i forget about Mystics in Bali? Looking it up was easy then, a Penanggalan.
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May 1, 2021 05:49
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twistedmentat posted:Oh! drat how'd i forget about Mystics in Bali? Looking it up was easy then, a Penanggalan. It's one of those things that many people's first encounter with was in the 1st edition Monster Manual. "Orc, okay. Goblin, dragon, lizard man... flying vampiric woman's severed head with organ bag hanging off of it.  I love this game!"Then they made an entire book of poo poo like that called the Fiend Folio. If you saw your DM pull that poo poo out you knew things were about to get weird and deadly.
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May 1, 2021 16:10
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twistedmentat posted:Oh! drat how'd i forget about Mystics in Bali? Looking it up was easy then, a Penanggalan. There's also a series of SNAKE QUEEN films from the same era starring Indonesian superstar actress SUZZANNA which are fuckin aces.
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May 1, 2021 17:04
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