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now that's what we call a big brain move. not that you won't need to do the exact same thing w/rt sidequests in Abyss lol what the gently caress was up with team symphonia and sidequests, man
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May 1, 2021 03:06
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I remember liking Vesperia better even if Abyss's story was way more put together just because I remember absolutely despising the entire party through huge bits of it. And I know they improve but oof.
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May 1, 2021 03:10
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i would like vesperia's party as much as or more than abyss' if the game didn't take so many steps to keep them from getting anything fun for long chunks while abyss' are just kind of lovely people for the first act and a bit of act 2 but they're lovely people in a way that's interesting and makes sense in the context of the world they live in
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May 1, 2021 03:26
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I thought Vesperia's party was much more unpleasant. They're cruel to each other just for fun, and they never stop being lovely to each other well into the endgame and past the scenes where they're supposed to have become friends. Yuri is always judgy, Rita is always yelling at everybody, Karol is always incompetent and pathetic. It's going for playful banter but didn't pull off the character development. Abyss' characters are just standoffish and frustrated for very understandable reasons, particularly around Luke, and in a way where it's really clear they wish Luke would grow up and aren't just bullying him because the game thinks it's funny. Well, Jade is, but he visibly lays off of Luke for a while after finding out he has amnesia, for example, and there are a lot of spots in the game where he lets slip that he's actually pretty self-conscious about it.
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May 1, 2021 03:36
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i really like rita and estelle's dynamic but after the back half of act 2 i got uh, pretty majorly soured on how visibly little the story, actually cared about that compared to having dramatic scenes about yuri shouting about how he Will Save Her i'll probably go back to and finish vesperia this year but god that game's plot just has some long stretches that do, literally everything they can, to ruin anything potentially fun about it for me
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May 1, 2021 03:47
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I played through vesperia like five times in a row in 2018 and I at no point really knew what the main story was even about, but I loved the hell out of the game. The character interactions don't really evolve much over the gameplay but I enjoyed how they were all constantly ribbing on eachother. And the token old guy is the best token old guy (except Jade probably but I can't bring myself to finish Abyss for some reason).
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May 1, 2021 04:05
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I can’t remember if the most efficient way to refine gems in Graces. I have vague memories of having a small number of stupid powerful ones at the end of the game last time but I can’t remember how they got that way.
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May 1, 2021 04:27
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The Colonel posted:i really like rita and estelle's dynamic but after the back half of act 2 i got uh, pretty majorly soured on how visibly little the story, actually cared about that compared to having dramatic scenes about yuri shouting about how he Will Save Her Yeah but in exchange, Rita ended up solving every problem in the plot.
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May 1, 2021 04:42
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The Colonel posted:i really like rita and estelle's dynamic but after the back half of act 2 i got uh, pretty majorly soured on how visibly little the story, actually cared about that compared to having dramatic scenes about yuri shouting about how he Will Save Her There's a fantastic moment on the way out of that collapsing dungeon after you fight Schwann where Rita and Patty have a moment of regret before Yuri is like "get moving, we have to stay focused on saving Estelle." Yuri. Tells Rita. To stay focused on Estelle. It's really determined to make Yuri have the objectively correct or definitive take about every little thing. And Rita's feelings for Estelle are always ineffectual and Too Much, except when she's allowed to be of utility to the party, but basically never on her terms.
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May 1, 2021 06:06
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I will always thank Yuri for introducing Dragon Swarm to the Tales of Sword Fighter Artes Staple
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May 1, 2021 06:09
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Junpei posted:I will always thank Yuri for introducing Dragon Swarm to the Tales of Sword Fighter Artes Staple Stan, Leon, and Reid are crying right now.
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May 1, 2021 06:11
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Caphi posted:Stan, Leon, and Reid are crying right now. it was localized as Dragon Blade for the former two, and Reid didn't even have it I checked "Souryu Rengazan" isn't in it
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May 1, 2021 06:16
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Yeah Ras has it, I always forget because it's like his one arte that isn't either a better version of Reid's or one Reid gets at a way higher level.
Caphi fucked around with this message at 06:26 on May 1, 2021 |
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May 1, 2021 06:19
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fair enough We know from that Arte Exhibition thingy that we got that Alphen has Double Demon Fang ("Majinken Souga") and Searing Gale ("Neppa Senpujin") as Artes, and he performs a Sword Rain-alike. I'm still holding out for Infernal Torrent
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May 1, 2021 06:28
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Arise looks like it's actually bringing a lot of classic spells and stuff back, but they all look all modern and slick. Even Alphen's Demon Fang has a sweet new breaking-through-the-ground effect.
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May 1, 2021 06:31
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Localizing the battles-and-artes half of a Tales game seems like it'd be a lot easier than most other games of equivalent length/battle complexity just due to the fact that they've gotta have a list of like "this is a big list of reoccurring Artes and what we translate them as" so when they go over a new game's Arte lists they can go: "Okay, so... that's new... oh, Majinken, that's Demon Fang. And then Kogahazan, that's Tiger Blade... Chirisazame, that's Sword Rain..."
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May 1, 2021 07:23
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Junpei posted:that they've gotta have a list of like "this is a big list of reoccurring Artes and what we translate them as" so when they go over a new game's Arte lists they can go speaking in terms of people i know who work in the industry: it is 50/50 on if the translators actually received this list or if they have to consult the wiki like everyone else
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May 1, 2021 07:33
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Junpei posted:Localizing the battles-and-artes half of a Tales game seems like it'd be a lot easier than most other games of equivalent length/battle complexity just due to the fact that they've gotta have a list of like "this is a big list of reoccurring Artes and what we translate them as" so when they go over a new game's Arte lists they can go: Tbh it seems easy until you run into one that’s lowkey a riff/remix of an existing arte, at least to my gaijin rear end. Also iirc they retranslated some of the old artes with weird translations in Zestria so I guess their work is never done.
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May 1, 2021 09:15
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yeah there's no way there's actually a list for this series because some artes just change their localised names randomly while others stay consistent equally arbitrarily
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May 1, 2021 09:23
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if i ever break my legs and am in bed for three weeks i will absolutely make a list of every single arte/spell thats been in multiple tales games. the aselia wiki basically already has all this info its just split across giant lists of artes or each character's individual artes page.
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May 1, 2021 09:42
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although now that i think about it, someone at the loc house must've been paying attention even back in the ps2 days because in abyss' cameo battle where Reid makes an appearance, his artes retain their now-defunct localisations from eternia while the ones the party use are named according to the standards symphonia set, which is honestly an incredible localisation-only touch of flavour
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May 1, 2021 10:04
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Last Celebration posted:Tbh it seems easy until you run into one that’s lowkey a riff/remix of an existing arte, at least to my gaijin rear end. Also iirc they retranslated some of the old artes with weird translations in Zestria so I guess their work is never done. 爆炎剣 has gone back and forth between Sword Flare/Hell Sword, starting as Sword Flare in Destiny, going to Hell Sword in Xillia 2, then back to Sword Flare. What's weird is the Xillia 2 name comes from the Stahn boss fight. You think they'd try and keep the same localization as the game he's from, since he's a cameo and all. 邪霊一閃 Phantasm Slash has gone back and forth between Phantasm Slash and Evil Spirit. 無影衝 Mirage Blitz/Shadow Shock are the two names it's had. There's a pun here that inconsistent localization and some games being skipped has basically completely mangled. The JP is basically 'shadow, no, rush', IE, moving so fast that they don't even see your shadow. The JP character for 'rush' is pronounced 'shou,' and that spelling is used for Veigue in Rebirth, who was the first one to have the move. Jude has the move, but the character for rush is replaced with palm, since he's a fist fighter. That was localized as mirage blitz, which is an alright name, it gets across the impression of visual trickery. Sorey's goes back to Veigue's spelling, since Sorey is a swordfighter too, only... the NA name is 'Shadow Shock,' which doesn't realllyyy work. Maybe the shock is meant to be surprise, but it sounds like some sort of electricity/darkness move, but it's just a dashing slash with no elemental effects. Bizarre choice. And also ruins the connection to Jude, and the pun, but the pun might be a lost cause. 断空剣 is a loving bizarre one. It was Vortex in Destiny, Earth Divide in Eternia, Decisive Slice in Symphonia, Severing Wind/Shining Blade in Abyss, Severing Wind in Symphonia 2 (even though Zelos had it in Symphonia as Decisive Slice), Severing Blade in Vesperia, and then they finally stuck with Severing Wind. Yuri's Severing Fang is also a riff on it, but that riff is way less strong to English players due to the inconsistent name. (Though they at least kept the idea of Flynn and Yuri having the same arte with slightly different names, so good on them for that) And of course, the most famous weird name in Zestiria, 獅子戦吼. It's beast, baby. It was first translated as 'Force' in Destiny, and then inexplicably 'Chi' in Eternia (which honestly sounds like they were working off the English name), and then Symphonia made it Beast, a name it stuck with until... Zestiria, where it was changed to Lion's Howl. Now, Lion's Howl is a much more accurate TL of the JP name, which is essentially 'Lion, Battle, Roar,' so Lion's War Howl or something similar would be the most literal TL. The issue is that Zestiria made Beast an actual plotpoint and a heavily emphasized arte that a lot of the final battle is based around. Now, this is because it was one of Cress's most iconic and memorable lategame moves, and so it served as fanservice for longtime fans. Now, English players wouldn't recognize it from Cress... but Lloyd had it too! And it was really good in that game, too! But it was called Beast there. So even someone who's fairly invested in Tales might not recognize the reference being made here and think the game is just overemphasizing some random move. Incidentally, there are three other notes to be made about Beast: 1) Jude also had his Beast changed to 'Lion's howl' in Berseria, so it seems like we're stuck with this TL from now on. Which, like I said, more accurate to the JP, but when it's been Beast for nearly 15 years you might as well just keep it Beast, even if it's not entirely accurate. 2) Presea and Anise have a 'Beast' that's actually an entirely different move, 獅吼滅龍閃, with a much longer name. This was localized as just 'Beast' in Symphonia and Abyss, but it's a different move. Vesperia later changed it to 'Punishing Beast' in English. 3) The most baffling part of all this, Sorey has a move that's only been in Zestiria, 爆雷獅吼陣. The JP is essentially 'Explode, Thunder, Lion, Roar, Formation.' This arte's name is a play off Fiery Beast/Thunder Beast, which were combo artes in Symphonia. You might also remember Richard having Fiery Beast. The play is that 獅吼爆雷陣, Thunder Beast, is 'Lion, Roar, Explode, Thunder, Formation.' So, this move is just Thunder Beast's japanese name, but flipped around. What did Zestiria, the game that changed the official localized name of Beast to Lion's Howl, choose to rename this to? This arte, that is a play off of Thunder Beast? Beast Thunder. They changed 'Beast' to 'Lion's Howl' but named the one that was playing off the original JP name 'Beast Thunder.' What the gently caress.
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May 1, 2021 10:06
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also abyss splitting the name 断空剣 into Severing Wind/Shining Blade is a weird choice because the two characters that share it are Guy and Van. Them having the same arte makes sense because Guy's sword style is meant to be a variation of the swordstyle Van uses, and Van and Guy are distant cousins, but that connection's lost in localization. (Incidentally that also makes Tear and Guy cousins, a fact I have never thought about until just now and doesn't really have any bearing on anything)
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May 1, 2021 10:14
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i love this, yes more of this please
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May 1, 2021 10:21
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Uhhhh... Akisazame came first, and it was initially localized as Sword Rain, but then when it became the upgrade to a weaker version of the same art they had to make the weaker version (Chirisazame) Sword Rain and then turn Akisazame to Sword Rain: Alpha that's all I know in terms of wacky kanji Arte translation weirdness I know that spell names are mostly consistent between JP and ENG because a lot of the time they're English words rendered in katakana and so the only changes are ones that sound a little odd. Off the top of my head... English name of spell || Japanese name of spell Explosion || Explode Air Pressure || Add Pressure Infernal Prison || Ignite Prison
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May 1, 2021 10:42
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Ignite Person
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May 1, 2021 10:43
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yknow what? sure. since last celebration mentioned zestiria ill just go through them and see if there are any other interesting changes ファイナルプレイヤー has been 'Final Player' and 'Final Prayer.' The JP is literally just 'finaru pureiyaa' but with the JP L/R ambiguity its very hard to tell if its meant to be Prayer or Player. There's also... some indication the JP is actually intentionally ambiguous? It started as one of Loni's mystic artes in Destiny 2, but it was also the name of one of Genis's weapons in Symphonia. Genis's weapons are toys, so 'player' actually makes sense. That said, for Mikleo's mystic arte, they went with 'Player' in English, when Prayer feels like it makes wayyy more sense in that context. And it's not even a consistency thing, because one of the villains in Hearts R has it too, and they localized it as Prayer there. Mikelo and Eleanor have a semi-shared arte. 円月輪 is Circle Moon Ring, 炎月輪 is Fire Moon Ring. First is Mikleo's, second is Eleanor's. They're unique to the Wasteland games, so nothing else to fall back on. Mikleo's was localized as Lunar Strain (???), Eleanor's was localized as Burning Moon. There's a few other connections like that between Zestiria and Berseria Arte names, and the TL catches most of them. This feels like mostly the fault of Zestiria's localization though, not Berseria's, since 'Lunar Strain' is pretty hard to work with. There's a broader shared Arte theme in Zestiria that they removed entirely in localization. Edna, Mikleo, Dezel/Zaveid, and Lailah all have artes with the English word 'Slave' in the name in JP, but all of these were changed to different words in English. Specifically: Dezel/Zaveid: Guard Slave/Guard Decay Mikleo: Mind Slave/Mindflayer Lailah: Spirit Slave/Spirit Cage Edna: Resist Slave/Soul Syphon In addition, Arthur has Arthur: Attack Slave/Strength Regression All of these have the same effect of stealing buffs, so it's a shame the theming was lost, since it had a gameplay purpose of letting you know what Arthur's attack was gonna do. Minor point, but notable! There's also a pun in Crestoria, where the some enemies have an attack called 'Spirits' Rave'', that of course doesn't click at all to people only familiar with English Zestiria. Alisha has 蛇垂華, which was localized as Serpent Snare for her and Snake Bite for Maltran. Which feels like a classical case of two localizers tackling two different move name lists without talking to each other, because them having the same arte makes perfect sense, and Maltran's animations are literally just lifted off Alisha so it's the same move for both of them. What's strange is they kept all their other shared move names the same, so clearly someone caught this at some point. Guess Serpent Snare just slipped through the cracks. フォトンブレイズ is 'Photon Blaze,' as in the english word Photon Blaze, even in Japanese. For some reason this was localized as 'Photon Burst' in Graces. Zestiria kept it Photon Blaze. I will absolutely give them this one. However... イグニートフォトン is 'Ignite Photon', as in those English words. For some reason they localized *this* one as 'Photon Burst,' making this one a reference to the Graces Arte, rather than the one that's actually the same as Malik's Graces Arte. I can get what they were going for here but its' a weird choice. Eizen, Zaveid, and Dezel all have a name theme that was completely lost in translation. All their arte names are one word, with the furigana above the word indicating that the name should be said in English, rather than the Japanese text the game gives. For instance, 断末魔 is 'deathbed,' but the arte name also has 'ソラウズ', solace, above it. So it means Deathbed, but is read as Solace. This is a tricky thing to localize, and Zestiria... kinda just gave up completely. For instance, 異端 (Heresy, read as ヘレティック, Heretic,) was localized as... 'Heretic Strike.' Why not just Heresy? The whole idea of Zaveid and Dezel's artes is that they read and sound different from the rest of the cast's, more direct and with a tryhardier edge tot hem. I won't go through their entire physical tree because every single arte is like this. That said, here are some personal favorite baffling ones: 破門者 (Excommunicator, read as キャンドル, 'Candle.') is 'Anathema Force'. Again, wouldn't 'Excommunication' work fine? 高慢者 There's a really clever pun in Japanese here, - feel free to catch me on this if im wrong, anyone who also knows some JP, but - that means prideful person, but the furigana indicates it's read as ハイハット, hi-hat, like the part of a drum. That's an incredibly clever two-layer pun. 1) Pride, in their hat, which fits Zaveid taking Dezel's hat. 2) The attack itself is them jumping up and slamming down with the pendulum, like a drum motion, which fits the 'hi-hat' name itself. The english name is... High Strike. Good hustle, guys. The worst part is Berseria's TL actually did nearly keep the one word name theme for Eizen, even if it couldn't get across the furigana/multi-layered meaning thing, but it had five slips: 断末魔 (Deathbed, read as ソラウズ, Solace) was translated as Last Throes. This could have just been Deathbed OR Solace, either works. The localized name also kinda goes against the intended meaning - the obvious idea of reading 'deathbed' as 'solace' is finding peace in death, but 'throes' implies struggling against it. 土壇場 is a very interesting one. It means 'earth platform,' but it's very specifically a word for a platform made of packed together earth/dirt/etc, that they'd perform executions on in the Edo period of Japanese history. It's read as ディッチ, Ditch, which obviously has 'mass grave' implications. Ditch would have been fine here, but I guess they wanted to make the death connotation clearer, so they chose Eleventh Hour. Feel like you could have found a snappy word that had the execution connotations? 無碍 means 'a path without obstacles,' basically, read as 'ブランク', meaning Blank. They went with Clear Path here. This is one where you do have to kinda choose between the meaning or the reading, so I won't rag on them too much. 詐欺師 (Cheater, Fraudster) read as フラウド (Fraud), was in Zestiria, and it got made Deceiving Pummel. Fraud would have been fine, but Berseria kept Deceiving Pummel for consistency, I guess. 冬木立 (Leafless Winter Tree), read as クラスター (Cluster), got made Winter Winds. Honestly, I have no idea of the connection between the actual word and the furigana reading of it here, there's no actual pun there that I can see, so I get why they just wanted to communicate the meaning. I got way off topic from the recurring names thing, but the Eizen/Zaveid/Dezel arte names have always been really interesting to me. Endorph fucked around with this message at 11:29 on May 1, 2021 |
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May 1, 2021 11:24
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oh and to keep from ragging the eizen/zaveid arte names too much 摩天楼, Skyscraper, read as スクレイパー, Scraper, got changed to Lighthouse, which I actually really like as a name change cause it's still a tall building which fits the fact that it's one of Eizen's launchers, but skyscrapers wouldn't exist in Berseria's setting but lighthouses would, and it fits Eizen's pirate theme, and its still one word. This is an example of a Good Localization Choice.
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May 1, 2021 11:35
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There's gonna be a Nico Nico Douga double Scarlet Nexus/Tales of Arise stream sometime soon, here's the link https://sp.live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv331091041
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May 1, 2021 11:58
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Endorph posted:土壇場 is a very interesting one. It means 'earth platform,' but it's very specifically a word for a platform made of packed together earth/dirt/etc, that they'd perform executions on in the Edo period of Japanese history. It's read as ディッチ, Ditch, which obviously has 'mass grave' implications. Ditch would have been fine here, but I guess they wanted to make the death connotation clearer, so they chose Eleventh Hour. Feel like you could have found a snappy word that had the execution connotations? 土壇場 is also just straight up a Japanese idiom that broadly corresponds to the English idiom of 'Eleventh Hour'. This Japanese dictionary defines it as a desperate/urgent situation.
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May 1, 2021 12:12
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Bland posted:土壇場 is also just straight up a Japanese idiom that broadly corresponds to the English idiom of 'Eleventh Hour'. This Japanese dictionary defines it as a desperate/urgent situation.
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May 1, 2021 12:18
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I do like how even if the sword, fist and Repede versions of Majinken are pronounced the same they do try to differentiate themselves in English by translating them as Demon Fang vs Demon Fist vs Demon Dog
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May 1, 2021 12:56
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They definitely have a database of these things by now, it mainly gets funky when there are weird little variations like Zestiria had. https://twitter.com/Tales_of_ARISE/status/1388406616488235014?s=19 Anyway, Law generates buffs as he attacks without being hit. Seems interesting, though it kind of depends on how the AI does with it.
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May 1, 2021 15:44
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I really am liking the Xillia -> Berseria -> Arise trend of giving each party member a unique gimmick or ability to set them apart from the rest. Also, in no particular order, casual plot theories for Arise: -Shionne's dad is gonna be a villain in some capacity -Alphen is a homunculus of some sort -Rinwell (and her 'people') are descendants of Renans who moved to Dahna at some point in the past
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May 1, 2021 16:18
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Regarding gimmicks, for completeness:
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May 1, 2021 17:51
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...do you think Shionne was born with her curse-of-hurts-people-who-touch-me, or had it cast on her by some villain? Also, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely do you think Alphen and Shionne becoming a couple is?
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May 1, 2021 19:42
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11.
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May 1, 2021 19:57
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We havent gotten a tales with romance in a while.
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May 2, 2021 04:20
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the zestiria anime went for alisha/rose and it was good but well, that was the anime lol
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May 2, 2021 04:27
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 12:38 |
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...counting Hearts R as seperate from the original, was Jude/Milla or Kor/Kohaku more recent...?
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May 2, 2021 04:51
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