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repiv
Aug 13, 2009

:shuckyes:

https://twitter.com/tlbtlbtlb/status/1388926766920605698

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Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001
absolutely top-tier snipe

MrUnderbridge
Jun 25, 2011

So just can't get past the literal "billionaires bad, only millions of bitcoin, so no billionaires, wealth inequity solved!"

None of the commenters seem to get it either: it's the concentration of wealth that's the problem, not the absolute number used to measure it. If we struck three zeroes off everybody's wealth, Bezos et al. would still control the same amount relative to the total value of the economy. And while he would then "only" be worth hundreds of millions, I would only get $45 a year.

They really, really only have a child's grasp of money.

xtal
Jan 9, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
Wait, they aren't joking?

Galewolf
Jan 9, 2007

The human gallbladder is indeed a puzzle!
Welcome back, xtal, your 24 probe saved some carbob emissions allowance so you can shitpost about shitcoins for exactly 0.34 hours.

xtal
Jan 9, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
Shout out to the goon in this thread who has spent at least 60 dollars on custom titles for me lol

xtal fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 3, 2021

Galewolf
Jan 9, 2007

The human gallbladder is indeed a puzzle!
Lmao, nice avatar change from your crypto gainz.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
Just rename billion to boglion, and change all dictionaries. Boom, problem solved.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011



Wow this might actually be the worst person...

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

Ccs posted:

Wow this might actually be the worst person...

You mean the best. Right clicking save as to resell all posts as nfts

Relevant Tangent fucked around with this message at 15:38 on May 3, 2021

Hammerite
Mar 9, 2007

And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.
Jade Ear Joe
hooray for butt coin

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009





xtal posted:

Shout out to the goon in this thread who has spent at least 50 dollars on custom titles for me lol
Still a better use for money than buying crypto.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
When I punched a random person in the face, I was just initiating a discussion about violence and the societal prerequisites for it. It's a makes you think kind of thing, you know.

Stealthgerbil
Dec 16, 2004


Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Destroying as in physically wrecking it, or just wasting a colossal amount of space for a return period that will outstrip the amount of time you are expecting to keep the drive for in the first place?

Like actually wrecking them. SSDs have a total terabyte written value and after they pass that point, they have a good chance of failing when they lose power next.

The hard drives are just filled with a colossal waste of space but once they are plotted out then you dont need to burn up your SSD.

Vesi
Jan 12, 2005

pikachu looking at?

Paladinus posted:

When I punched a random person in the face, I was just initiating a discussion about violence and the societal prerequisites for it. It's a makes you think kind of thing, you know.

sounds like you're incentivizing improved cranial protection creation

also your punches will be preserved on their face much like a battery

Andy Dufresne
Aug 4, 2010

The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/05/identifying-the-person-behind-bitcoin-fog.html

quote:

Most remarkable, however, is the IRS’s account of tracking down Sterlingov using the very same sort of blockchain analysis that his own service was meant to defeat. The complaint outlines how Sterlingov allegedly paid for the server hosting of Bitcoin Fog at one point in 2011 using the now-defunct digital currency Liberty Reserve. It goes on to show the blockchain evidence that identifies Sterlingov’s purchase of that Liberty Reserve currency with bitcoins: He first exchanged euros for the bitcoins on the early cryptocurrency exchange Mt. Gox, then moved those bitcoins through several subsequent addresses, and finally traded them on another currency exchange for the Liberty Reserve funds he’d use to set up Bitcoin Fog’s domain.

Based on tracing those financial transactions, the IRS says, it then identified Mt. Gox accounts that used Sterlingov’s home address and phone number, and even a Google account that included a Russian-language document on its Google Drive offering instructions for how to obscure Bitcoin payments. That document described exactly the steps Sterlingov allegedly took to buy the Liberty Reserve funds he’d used.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004

Is this a parody site, like The Onion or Babylon Bee?

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Mad Dragon posted:

Is this a parody site, like The Onion or Babylon Bee?
Yeah, it's part of The Hard Times.

nullEntityRNG
Jun 23, 2010

Mostly pseudo-random.

So I love points like this because it misses a key attribute of an economy: it has to grow. If you only have 21 million buttcoins in existence then there will be some point where a person literally can not be part of an economy because there is no butts left to give. Like the gold standard problem the US faced.

What, do they assume no one will hoard buttcoins? No one will save them? That the richer buttcoin holders will be ethically good?

Like it baffles me because this is problems we have already solved* and yet they want to go and make the same mistakes?

*Solved as in that specific problem, not the problems resulting from it.

Beef
Jul 26, 2004

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Destroying as in physically wrecking it, or just wasting a colossal amount of space for a return period that will outstrip the amount of time you are expecting to keep the drive for in the first place?

Both. My take is that it make sense to do it on a small scale at home for space you already have left over, but never to go out and actually buy hardware for it.

Effort post: There are two parts to chia mining, creating the plot and farming it.

Creating a plot involves writing hashes to about 2x the plot size, then sorting those for fast lookup. That creates a ton of read/writes, which eats away at the drive durability. It's a lot faster to do that on an SSD. Consumer SSDs aren't really made for that kind of sustained work. The reported run for enterprise SSDs is likely because of miners wanting to quickly create a lot of plots. Or they expect that there will be demand for plot creation services.


Farming a plot only takes a handful of reads every few minutes to see if you won the lottery, so you can leave it on some unused HDD space. You can just delete plots or move it to cold storage if you need the space.

In both cases it seems dumb to get any hardware specifically for that purpose. The marginal gain for drawing more in the lottery is stupidly small. And as you said, you might not even keep the drive long enough to make it worth it.


It make some sense to make a few plots for that unused NAS space at home, but not enough to buy drives for it. You just treat the farming it as a small lottery.

IF Chia takes off and IF you are running a datacenter that overprovisions storage and IF you have a cheap tape come storage system, then it would maybe make sense to get some extra SSDs for Chia plot creation.

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Relevant Tangent posted:

You mean the best. Right clicking save as to resell all posts as nfts

I've been wondering that since it should be trivial to generate NFTs, why someone hasn't opened the floodgates and set things up to let anyone make NFTs for anything from their own computers. Really get the stupidity flowing.

NecroBob
Jul 29, 2003

You say this as if cryptocurrency people aren't dumb as gently caress and won't blow thousands of dollars for a 0.0001% better chance of winning chia shavings.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Random Stranger posted:

I've been wondering that since it should be trivial to generate NFTs, why someone hasn't opened the floodgates and set things up to let anyone make NFTs for anything from their own computers. Really get the stupidity flowing.

It costs money to "mint" an NFT, in the sense that it requires some expenditure of ethereum, I believe. If you don't already have some of the right kind of Dunning-Krugerrands then you would actually have to use real money to do it.

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



CaptainSarcastic posted:

It costs money to "mint" an NFT, in the sense that it requires some expenditure of ethereum, I believe. If you don't already have some of the right kind of Dunning-Krugerrands then you would actually have to use real money to do it.

But that's an arbitrary restriction solely to funnel money into a few pockets as far as U can tell. There's nothing stopping anyone from inserting "X person owns Y" into the blockchain.

Hammerite
Mar 9, 2007

And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.
Jade Ear Joe

NecroBob posted:

You say this as if cryptocurrency people aren't dumb as gently caress and won't blow thousands of dollars for a 0.0001% better chance of winning chia shavings.

Yeah, for much of the history of bitcoin it's been irrational (in the "rational economic actor" sense) to spend money on mining hardware. hasn't stopped hordes of idiots from doing it. it'll be the same with chia

blunt
Jul 7, 2005

Random Stranger posted:

But that's an arbitrary restriction solely to funnel money into a few pockets as far as U can tell. There's nothing stopping anyone from inserting "X person owns Y" into the blockchain.

Transaction fees.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

NecroBob posted:

You say this as if cryptocurrency people aren't dumb as gently caress and won't blow thousands of dollars for a 0.0001% better chance of winning chia shavings.

hell there's already specialized chia mining hardware in production, like this motherboard with a 32-way SATA backplane built in



the chia network is up to 1.7 million TB already, i wonder how much of that is from purpose-built mining operations

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



blunt posted:

Transaction fees.

Again, they're totally arbitrary. Someone could always set up something to run meaningless transactions that insert the NFTs. The only way you couldn't would be if you couldn't independently exchange etheric between wallets.

And given how stupid everything around crypto is, that's entirely possible. But it still feels like any yahoo with a graphics card should be able to set up their own NFT making operation.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004

Say it ain't so, Bruce!

https://www.facebook.com/groovybruce/posts/322703492552229

https://twitter.com/GroovyBruce/status/1385748562584117248

edit: almost every comment on his tweet is people making GBS threads on NFTs.

Mad Dragon fucked around with this message at 21:13 on May 3, 2021

Beef
Jul 26, 2004

repiv posted:

hell there's already specialized chia mining hardware in production, like this motherboard with a 32-way SATA backplane built in



the chia network is up to 1.7 million TB already, i wonder how much of that is from purpose-built mining operations

What the actual gently caress.

Well, I'm hoping all those drivers are going to end up on the second hand market, I could use some more cheap backup space.

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

Random Stranger posted:

I've been wondering that since it should be trivial to generate NFTs, why someone hasn't opened the floodgates and set things up to let anyone make NFTs for anything from their own computers. Really get the stupidity flowing.

You can do this right now. There's a fee, you make an NFT, and then Elon pays you in Ether for Big Dicked Mommy Milkers #69 of 420.

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar

Beef posted:

What the actual gently caress.

Well, I'm hoping all those drivers are going to end up on the second hand market, I could use some more cheap backup space.

You would not want to use them as a backup drive. Or use them at all, most likely.

ChronoBasher
Jul 2, 2007

Beef posted:

Both. My take is that it make sense to do it on a small scale at home for space you already have left over, but never to go out and actually buy hardware for it.

Effort post: There are two parts to chia mining, creating the plot and farming it.

Creating a plot involves writing hashes to about 2x the plot size, then sorting those for fast lookup. That creates a ton of read/writes, which eats away at the drive durability. It's a lot faster to do that on an SSD. Consumer SSDs aren't really made for that kind of sustained work. The reported run for enterprise SSDs is likely because of miners wanting to quickly create a lot of plots. Or they expect that there will be demand for plot creation services.

Can confirm - I plotted for about 2 weeks on a brand new NVMe drive, this is what happened:


Chia transactions went live today, price on the market has been all over the place, but seems to be bouncing between 500 and 800 a coin right now. I feel like if this holds SSDs and high capacity HDDs (like 8TB+) are going to continue to spike. The net space growth is crazy too, so to even stand a shot at hitting a solo block you need to be plotting faster then the growth of the netspace. I've stopped plotting because I can no longer keep up. The Bittorrent guy behind all this said on the live stream this morning that anyone with less then 200TB today should probably just wait for pools (which currently don't exist in a legitimate form).

Hammerite
Mar 9, 2007

And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.
Jade Ear Joe

ChronoBasher posted:

Can confirm - I plotted for about 2 weeks on a brand new NVMe drive, this is what happened:


Chia transactions went live today, price on the market has been all over the place, but seems to be bouncing between 500 and 800 a coin right now. I feel like if this holds SSDs and high capacity HDDs (like 8TB+) are going to continue to spike. The net space growth is crazy too, so to even stand a shot at hitting a solo block you need to be plotting faster then the growth of the netspace. I've stopped plotting because I can no longer keep up. The Bittorrent guy behind all this said on the live stream this morning that anyone with less then 200TB today should probably just wait for pools (which currently don't exist in a legitimate form).

gently caress cryptocurrency

how would pools work with this one then? if someone wants to switch to a different pool do they have to recalculate all of their plots or fields or pastures or whatever the stupid loving things are called

human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020

by Fluffdaddy
bitcoin crashing won't crash the real economy no matter how big it gets because world governments would just reverse fiat transactions to bring bank account balances to reasonable levels. the reason the 1929 crash had such a devastating effect on the real economy was because the world governments said "nuh uh, half the population has to starve now, those are the rules of money" and forced farmers to destroy crops.

ChronoBasher
Jul 2, 2007

Hammerite posted:

gently caress cryptocurrency

how would pools work with this one then? if someone wants to switch to a different pool do they have to recalculate all of their plots or fields or pastures or whatever the stupid loving things are called

To go from solo to pool you'd need to replot everything, ie SHRED some more SSDs to the SHA gods.

To go from pool to pool the devs have said they have something coming so no re-plot will be needed. But who knows, pools don't even exist right now.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDTiFkXgEE

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



So does Chia claim to accomplish anything at all other than "here's a new coin, but you mine it with hard drives, not graphics cards!" Like Bitcoin is full of poo poo but I'm old enough to remember when there were some visions etc. and it had practical utility in that you could use it to buy weasel dust.

A lot of this poo poo is going to evaporate when people can go on trips again.


human garbage bag posted:

bitcoin crashing won't crash the real economy no matter how big it gets because world governments would just reverse fiat transactions to bring bank account balances to reasonable levels. the reason the 1929 crash had such a devastating effect on the real economy was because the world governments said "nuh uh, half the population has to starve now, those are the rules of money" and forced farmers to destroy crops.
I think the unstated idea for a lot of this is that they see the economy as basically zero-sum, so if they are hodling the coins and everything else collapses, their relative position will dramatically increase and a huge swath of economic power will come to them. I should probably put "idea" in quotes, but it seems to be the underlying reasoning if you're ~engaging with the technology~ as opposed to just riding a trend bubble.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!

Nessus posted:

So does Chia claim to accomplish anything at all other than "here's a new coin, but you mine it with hard drives, not graphics cards!" Like Bitcoin is full of poo poo but I'm old enough to remember when there were some visions etc. and it had practical utility in that you could use it to buy weasel dust.

A lot of this poo poo is going to evaporate when people can go on trips again.
I think the unstated idea for a lot of this is that they see the economy as basically zero-sum, so if they are hodling the coins and everything else collapses, their relative position will dramatically increase and a huge swath of economic power will come to them. I should probably put "idea" in quotes, but it seems to be the underlying reasoning if you're ~engaging with the technology~ as opposed to just riding a trend bubble.

Chia is supposed to be good for your health, but all studies are inconclusive so far.

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ChronoBasher
Jul 2, 2007

Nessus posted:

So does Chia claim to accomplish anything at all other than "here's a new coin, but you mine it with hard drives, not graphics cards!" Like Bitcoin is full of poo poo but I'm old enough to remember when there were some visions etc. and it had practical utility in that you could use it to buy weasel dust.

As far as I can tell no - its the same crap. They argue that it is less environmentally damaging since you aren't running GPUs/ASICs 24/7, just minimal HDD reads - but I don't think they foresaw the idiots dumping thousands on hardware and turning it into a SSD/CPU race to see who can fill up those terabytes faster. So the whole environment angle falls apart.

They have a dev platform called Chialisp or something - but sounds basically like ETH were people can build apps on top of the Chia block chain woo hoo?

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