|
Should troll Fancy Pelosi be allowed to stay? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Yes |
|
160 | 32.92% |
| No |
|
326 | 67.08% |
| Total: | 486 votes | ||
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They are all pretty terrible, but Alex from Florida is really trying to be king of the assholes. This is almost guaranteed to be a Chud suburb Republican at a Chud run Charter school
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 23:28 |
|
|
Aren't budget proposals essentially pointless? Trump wanted to axe all non-military spending and domestic spending actually increased because the GOP had to get enough Dems to agree. A public option and other initiatives like it would have to go through budget reconciliation on a strict party line so this is probably just a grab bag of things that "might" survive the inevitable shutdown fight. More bipartisan fronting for public consumption basically.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:05
|
|
|
zoux posted:Feels like there's another party in congress that is actually causing the problems. Maybe one with equal or even superior agency to the Democrats. Democrats have majorities in both houses.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:07
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:There really must be something in the water in Illinois. Give the state of Illinois, along with Wisconsin, to Canada. Problem solved. That would probably cut back on the number of Packers fans that exist in Minnesota as well! Kalit fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:07
|
|
|
zoux posted:Feels like there's another party in congress that is actually causing the problems. Oh well, the Dems just don't want it bad enough I guess. I get what you're saying here, but wasn't there just a couple of months of all these things being proposed because the Dems could get these things passed if only they could get rid of the filibuster, but damnit, there are two democrats that just can't let that happen. Yes, it would be great if the GOP would play ball as well, but after all this talk about getting poo poo done because now they have the numbers (and even people campaigning in states by telling people that if they get voted in the Dems will have the numbers) and then being told that sorry, they can't make it happen. Don't get me wrong, the stuff that is passing is good stuff, but unfulfilled promises stick around in memory. Also why I said in the top half of my post that I really would like to hear an explanation or justification for their cuts.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:07
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:Democrats have majorities in both houses. Not on all issues, which is why the filibuster isn't dead yet and why $15 min wage was opposed by several senators.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:09
|
|
|
Grammarchist posted:Aren't budget proposals essentially pointless? Trump wanted to axe all non-military spending and domestic spending actually increased because the GOP had to get enough Dems to agree. A public option and other initiatives like it would have to go through budget reconciliation on a strict party line so this is probably just a grab bag of things that "might" survive the inevitable shutdown fight. Spending in some areas under Trump increased dramatically (the usual conservative red meat poo poo like military) while other things were cut to the bone to the point that certain fed functions are currently crippled. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/21/biden-trump-government-rebuilding/ The budget is never what goes into effect word-for-word, but it acts as something of an opening position/dreamboat list to bargain from. For example, the only Democrat who's thinking small on student loan forgiveness right now seems to be Biden. People are counting on this at this point, and if Biden does nothing he will deserve the consequences.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
It was pretty clear during the campaign that Biden had no interest in dealing with healthcare whatsoever and was only forced into talking about it by Bernie or Warren.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
Grammarchist posted:Aren't budget proposals essentially pointless? Trump wanted to axe all non-military spending and domestic spending actually increased because the GOP had to get enough Dems to agree. A public option and other initiatives like it would have to go through budget reconciliation on a strict party line so this is probably just a grab bag of things that "might" survive the inevitable shutdown fight. Yes, budget proposals are pointless. But, they are also a signifier of priorities. The stated reasoning of "not wanting to seem like they are proposing too much spending in a short period of time" is not a great one.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:13
|
|
|
virtualboyCOLOR posted:Further, why should anyone vote FOR Dems ever again with this kind of pattern. $830 million of campaign spending on the Georgia runoffs turned into $1.3 trillion of additional spending on Covid relief (if you believe McConnell would have passed the $600 billion Republican counteroffer lol) and we haven't even seen the infrastructure bill. A 1600:1 return in 3 months is pretty good imo.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:14
|
|
|
Grammarchist posted:Aren't budget proposals essentially pointless? Correct, the president's budget proposal is not legally binding. Theoretically, it's supposed to be a starting point for Congress to make its own plans, but there's no rule saying any part of it must be carried over into legislation. Sometimes this lets Congress throw away obvious stupid garbage ideas (like with Trump) and sometimes it lets ideas popular with the electorate quietly fall out of the planning process (Biden)
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:14
|
|
|
Kalit posted:Give the state of Illinois, along with Wisconsin, to Canada. Problem solved. That would probably cut back on the number of Packers fans that exist in Minnesota as well! We are not a dump for you to toss garbage at. 
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
Kalit posted:Give the state of Illinois, along with Wisconsin, to Canada. Problem solved. That would probably cut back on the number of Packers fans that exist in Minnesota as well! I also have it on good authority that a northern border wall would be a breeze to build because the trees are of a uniform and ideal height
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:17
|
|
|
James Garfield posted:$830 million of campaign spending on the Georgia runoffs turned into $1.3 trillion of additional spending on Covid relief (if you believe McConnell would have passed the $600 billion Republican counteroffer lol) and we haven't even seen the infrastructure bill. A 1600:1 return in 3 months is pretty good imo. There's also the American Families Plan after the infrastructure bill, which will bring the total to $4.1 trillion on spending in those two bills alone.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:18
|
|
|
Furnaceface posted:We are not a dump for you to toss garbage at. Same to you, we don't want your Gavin McInnes take him back already Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yes, budget proposals are pointless. But, they are also a signifier of priorities. The priority of "all of our bridges are loving falling apart" seems pretty important but what do I know. EDIT: Yes I get the complaint that there needs to be focus on healthcare etc. but the state of our infrastructure in this country is so goddamn hosed and abysmal that I think it's perfectly fine for it to be a priority. Of course, so is the state of a lot of other things in this country. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 20:28 on May 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:19
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1395504627731378177?s=21 So that Ohio vax lottery turned out to be genius
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:23
|
|
|
zoux posted:https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1395504627731378177?s=21  "Which would still be a huge improvement.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:47
|
|
|
Vorik posted:Not on all issues, which is why the filibuster isn't dead yet and why $15 min wage was opposed by several senators.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:04
|
|
|
World Famous W posted:Is the party responsible for how their members votes or not? It's just so simple. https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1395829478157258754 Uh, Josh your constituency is almost entirely made up of anti-semites.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:05
|
|
|
Stormgale posted:https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1395790089310064651?s=19 Unsurprising, given that the astroturf group Partnership for America's Health Care Future, which is stacked with Obama alumni as well as private insurers & drug makers, came out against both. Its logo is a good representation of the bipartisanship of regulatory capture. 
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:09
|
|
|
zoux posted:It's just so simple.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:10
|
|
|
zoux posted:https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1395504627731378177?s=21 So all it takes to get people over their irrational fears of vaccination is an extremely thin chance to win a big chunk of cash. What a country.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:11
|
|
|
World Famous W posted:Is the party responsible for how their members votes or not? What is the benefit of judging every democrat by the worst one? How does that help anyone figure out how to get bills that help people passed?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
AhhYes posted:So my first reaction is it has been a very, very long time since the WH budget has meant anything at all, so meh. But it's also just their priority list for this year, and it's probably a good call to focus on one multi-trillion dollar bill at a time in this environment. If those things aren't in their priority list for next year, then I'll think about being upset about it. Especially when that multi-trillion dollar bill offers unlimited subsidies to health private insurers.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:16
|
|
|
World Famous W posted:As is answering "republicans" when asked why the opposing party ain't fulfilling their promises. I mean, you know what the deal is, I don't have to explain it to you. You know enough about legislative dynamics, about Senate rules, about the filibuster and where members stand on, the fact that Manchin can't be primaried, that there's no leverage there, you know all of this. So yes it is as simple as "They don't have the votes for cloture or to vote to change the rules to drop the filibuster". We have to constantly do this rhetorical dance where people pretend like they're utterly naïve about the political dynamic in congress and reduce all that to utter absurdity and do unironic "I would simply pass the bill by using political pressure, and leverage" arguments. If they had 60 votes, if they had the votes to break the filibuster and leadership wasn't going along and was pursuing bipartisanship instead: then yes you would have a point. But that is not the situation on the ground, and you know it. zoux fucked around with this message at 21:18 on May 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:16
|
|
|
What good is a political party if it cant even whip votes for it's campaign promises.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:27
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:What good is a political party if it cant even whip votes for it's campaign promises. Still pretty good, in some places. Bad in others.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:What good is a political party if it cant even whip votes for it's campaign promises. What political party in modern memory has managed to whip votes for all of it's campaign promises within the first year?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:30
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:What good is a political party if it cant even whip votes for it's campaign promises. Do you think a party can/should be able to force all it's members to do whatever it wants 100% of the time without thought for their voters? Manchin sucks but the party is a big tent at this point and WV seems to want him.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
I don't think some of the campaign promises can be fulfilled unless there is a change in the makeup of senate, for one. Regardless of year. Issues beyond that are just the lovely feeling that representatives don't have your back because it looks like they won't put up a fight.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
Sarcastr0 posted:What political party in modern memory has managed to whip votes for all of it's campaign promises within the first year? Republican party, 2017-2020. Obamacare repeal failed but they passed everything else they tried to pass. Including a ton of 50 vote + Pence judge votes. They got it done.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
the stuff that's not going in the appropriations bills isn't getting passed in appropriations (which are filibusterable), it will need to be a reconciliation bill
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:33
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:Republican party, 2017-2020. Obamacare repeal failed but they passed everything else they tried to pass. Including a ton of 50 vote + Pence judge votes. They got it done. Your'e confused. They got what they as a party wanted during that time. Campaign promises? Hahahahahahahahaha no
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:What good is a political party if it cant even whip votes for it's campaign promises. Again this is “I would simply do politics at Joe Manchin and easily force him to fall in line.” It’s not an argument, it’s not a plan, it’s not a strategy, and it’s not reality.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:Do you think a party can/should be able to force all it's members to do whatever it wants 100% of the time without thought for their voters? Manchin sucks but the party is a big tent at this point and WV seems to want him. Yes. It benefits the party to pass things their voters want, ensuring future support of those voters. If someone does not want to vote for things their voters want, they should not be a part of the party.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:Republican party, 2017-2020. Obamacare repeal failed but they passed everything else they tried to pass. Including a ton of 50 vote + Pence judge votes. They got it done. your example is a party whiffing on its single biggest part of its legislative platform
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:Republican party, 2017-2020. Obamacare repeal failed but they passed everything else they tried to pass. Including a ton of 50 vote + Pence judge votes. They got it done. No new goalposts. You talked about campaign promises. Trump did not build the wall, Mexico did not pay for it, he did not ban Muslim immigration, he did not build the Keystone Pipeline, he did nothing with opiates, nothing with drug prices, nothing with regulating the press.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:your example is a party whiffing on its single biggest part of its legislative platform They passed tax cuts.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:36
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:They passed tax cuts. like i said, your example is a party whiffing on its single biggest part of its legislative platform. this is not great for your point.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 23:28 |
|
|
Reality Protester posted:They passed tax cuts. They failed their campaign pledge to repeal and replace Obamacare.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 21:38
|
|