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Sakurazuka posted:They were good before everyone decided base buildng was bad
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May 25, 2021 01:52
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grieving for Gandalf posted:FF1 is pretty ripe for this kind of spinoff. I don't think it necessarily has to be in a bleak setting, but isn't FF1 practically post-apocalyptic the way the crystals' influence is waning? No? The effects are implied as being bad but somewhat recent and while the game has the "ancient advanced civilization" trope the current world just seems like standard your standard Fister Roboto posted:Yeah this is why it's funny when people sometimes say that FF needs to go back to its pure fantasy roots. What roots? Ancient advanced civilizations are one of the most common traits in fantasy settings. Probably because people just cribbed that from Tolkien like they did so many other things. OhFunny posted:FFX prequel RTS set during the distant Machina War. FF6's War of the Magi.
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May 25, 2021 01:54
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Sakurazuka posted:They were good before everyone decided base buildng was bad Funny how base-building games are pretty darn popular these days! Edit: an Ala Mhigo rebuilding game could be fun. Let me mine some of those imperial monstrosities for resources. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 03:14 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 02:07
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Evil Fluffy posted:FF6's War of the Magi. Ok, but this one is in the style of WC3/DoW1 with each FFVI summon as a hero unit.
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May 25, 2021 03:44
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It's a garbage genre but I always thought a SquareEnix could pull off a compilation MOBA like Heroes of the Storm, but with a bigger staff than the couple guys Blizz forgot to lay off and less war criminals in the cast.
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May 25, 2021 03:47
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:It's a garbage genre but I always thought a SquareEnix could pull off a compilation MOBA like Heroes of the Storm, but with a bigger staff than the couple guys Blizz forgot to lay off and less war criminals in the cast. Less war criminals? I respect that they have a wider pool of games to pull from than Blizzard and not all of those games had wars to do war crimes in, but you're still gonna have a lot of them.
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May 25, 2021 03:51
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Cleretic posted:Less war criminals? I respect that they have a wider pool of games to pull from than Blizzard and not all of those games had wars to do war crimes in, but you're still gonna have a lot of them. ^^^ You're not going to see a FF crossover without people like Kefka (aka the guy who poisoned a castle's well, killing everyone in the castle, including noncombatants like maids and chefs). Or Kuja, who bombed cities and wiped out an entire planet. Or Zenos. Or Emet-Selch. Etc. Mass murderers are among the most iconic and popular FF characters and if there is a MOBA, they're going to be included.
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May 25, 2021 03:59
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I mean "engaging in warfare without a uniform" is a war crime and a ton of the protagonists have perpetrated that
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May 25, 2021 04:02
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I am extremely hype for a team ninja final fantasy Nioh-lite game.
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May 25, 2021 04:04
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jokes posted:YALL ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY AS poo poo FOR A GOOD RTS AND THERE ARE NONE I'm still mad at EA for trashing the C&C line.
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May 25, 2021 04:05
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Mustached Demon posted:I'm still mad at EA for trashing the C&C line. They just released the like best possible remaster of it!
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May 25, 2021 04:05
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Barudak posted:They just released the like best possible remaster of it! Oh I know I've played the poo poo out of it. Don't most of the FF games reference some great, cataclysmic war that forever shaped their respective worlds?
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May 25, 2021 04:08
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Mustached Demon posted:Oh I know I've played the poo poo out of it. Yeah, cursed to live in a text box forever unless SE would simply make an RTS for me
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May 25, 2021 04:12
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Mustached Demon posted:Oh I know I've played the poo poo out of it. I mean only in so far as a justification for ancient ruins, usually, and how that plays out differs. FFX the left over weapons of that war is the primary narrative motivation while FFIX has no meaningful ancient war in its past that ties into narrative or plot beyond "oh hey, old fort"
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May 25, 2021 04:13
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Blockhouse posted:I mean "engaging in warfare without a uniform" is a war crime and a ton of the protagonists have perpetrated that I'd argue that outrageous protagonist fashion itself might count as a uniform, so I'd give a pass on that. Even then the heroes aren't free of blood on their hands. Cecil and Kain probably wouldn't be looked on fondly by a tribunal. 7's crew are ecoterrorists even when the remake tries to wash as many crimes as possible off of them. I don't know the Tactics series, but I bet there's some dark corners there. 8's party are explicitly child soldiers, that probably doesn't make them war criminals but it definitely makes them war crimes.
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May 25, 2021 04:15
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:It's a garbage genre but I always thought a SquareEnix could pull off a compilation MOBA like Heroes of the Storm, but with a bigger staff than the couple guys Blizz forgot to lay off and less war criminals in the cast. Blizzard doubles down by hiring war criminals.
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May 25, 2021 04:21
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Ibblebibble posted:Blizzard doubles down by hiring war criminals. Activision already did that for Call of Duty
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May 25, 2021 04:22
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Mustached Demon posted:Don't most of the FF games reference some great, cataclysmic war that forever shaped their respective worlds? As mentioned before, FF1 is post apocalyptic. Don't remember if FF2, FF3, FF4, or FF5 were. FF6 had the War of the Magi but we don't know how devastating it was. In FF7, the Ceta race/nation were wiped out, but no evidence of a devastating war that ravaged the world. FF8's world was fine up until about 20 years ago. In FF9, there Summons were more frequently used in the past, wiping out armies and cities during wartime, but it doesn't seem to have been cataclysmic. Wars seem to have been more localized, no huge devastating world war. Terra (the second planet) was completely screwed, though. FF10 yes there was a total war between Bevelle and Zanarkand, and then there were the 5 periods when Sin was going around wiping out densely populated cities. It seems that small villages and farmsteads spread out across the countryside are fine, though. FF11 yes, a few times. There was a war between the gods and the races they created. The Zilart race were near completely wiped out. In more recent times, the Beastmen formed a huge horde and wiped out an entire country (you see this massacre in the opening cinematic of the base game, and get to travel to the ruins of it in the CoP questline). FF12 not really. Conflict is more localized. The war between Occuria and the Espers may or may not have been devastating. Also, if you include the out-of-game ultimania stuff that insists that this game is a prequel to FFT, then after FF12 there is an apocalypse which wipes out all non-human races, and none of the current nations survive. FF13 no major wars in the backstory of the base game. If you include Type-0, then there has been an untold number of complete planetary genocides. FF14: has the most mass death of any FF game bar Type-0. You wouldn't know it though because the tone of the game is very optimistic and downplays all of the mass death. 9 planets have been completely wiped out (7 calamities, Void, Midgardsomr's homeworld). Each time a calamity happens, civilization on the Source is also near completely wiped out. There is also the world of Norvrandt, which was 90% wiped out, the survivors of which were whittled during a 100 year long apocalypse. There was also (5.0 ending spoilers) the original timeline in which an 8th calamity happened, completely wiping out Norvrandt and plunging the Source into an age of might (warlordism). Also, lots of nation wide genocide. Ul'dah crafted a zombie plague and dumped it on their rival city of Ul'dah. The Garleans were very nearly driven to extinction in the past.
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May 25, 2021 04:22
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The Apocalypse actively happens during the course of FF2. And 3 is post the world getting so hosed up the only way to save it was to lock it in time by loving up the light crystals. 4 almost all of civilization gets destroyed and 5 is post the world being split in half.
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May 25, 2021 04:25
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I was mostly counting stuff that happened in the past, hence not counting Kuja wiping out most of civilization during FF9, or almost all of humanity being killed during the zombie/demon apocalypse of FF15, etc.
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May 25, 2021 04:26
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FF13 has a massive genocide war between Cocoon and Pulse that ended with everyone on Pulse dying or being made Cie'th / L'Cie and several dungeons are going through remnants of that war. This war also functions as a main motivator for the antagonist who is like "ok, genociding half of all humans is what I call a good start"
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May 25, 2021 04:27
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Moofia Boss Val posted:Don't remember if FF2, FF3, FF4, or FF5 were. FF2: no, it’s ongoing FF3: previous world ending event was the Flood of Light, not a war FF4: no FF5: presumably the war against Enuo that caused the Void to appear in the world, The Dawn Warriors vs Exdeath FFXIII: Gran Pulse’s war versus Cocoon is major part of the world, it’s kind of a big deal
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May 25, 2021 04:27
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Final Fantasy Tactics could probably qualify. They don't really talk about a great war or anything to my knowledge, but parts of the game are built on the long buried ruins of the advanced civilizations of 12.
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May 25, 2021 04:40
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See, that's plenty of material to build a RTS out of. I thought 8 had a war between Esthar and Galbadia that ended with you know who locked in moon jail? IV kind of starts already in a war but it's less war and more everyone else getting stomped on.
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May 25, 2021 04:50
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Mustached Demon posted:See, that's plenty of material to build a RTS out of. 8 definitely had a war in Laguna's time, yeah. I read the present day situation as wartime, too, just a quieter state of it. 4 definitely had a militaristic, war-ready state in Baron, but no opposing side. I still count that.
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May 25, 2021 04:57
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8 has lots of wars but none of them are civilization ending. Thats for the monsters from the moon
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May 25, 2021 04:58
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The moon invasion was hyped up as being this huge world ending apocalypse but then when it actually happens and it's just... you don't even feel that there is an invasion supposed to be happening.
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May 25, 2021 04:59
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Yeah 8's war is kind of... pretty low-key. There's regular trains going from Galbadia to other regions (even to Dollet, who they invaded), and the SeeD program means there's beefing up of forces on either end. It feels more like random border skirmishes til Deiling started taking more steps like controlling the radio tower.
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May 25, 2021 05:02
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8’s big thing was the loss of the great and ancient Centra civilization, from which all other nations formed, destroyed a whopping 80 years ago. 
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May 25, 2021 05:08
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We don't know entirely how advanced the world was in FF6 before the War of the Magi but we know that the War itself and the aftermath was basically civilization-resetting. FF6 is a post-apocalypse where the apocalypse is far enough in the background that we've looped back around to a normal world, albut one without magic until roughly 15 years ago. And, y'know, becomes a post-apocalypse again half-way through. 4 is weird because we never really see how far the scope of the global war with Baron goes- two places (Eblan and Mist) more or less gets wiped off the map, three more are reduced to near-irrelevance (Mysidia, Fabul, and Damcyan) with the only truly active force remaining on the Blue Planet being the Dwarf Kingdom. Troia exists but seems really intent in trying to sit out the fight, leaving the other kingdoms to their own devices and only even giving the Earth Crystal to the party because without Cecil and company they'd never have gotten it back to being with. So one hand outside Eblan, Mist, and Damcyan most of the rest of the world is visually more-or-less intact as you can revisit them and relatively little has changed in FF4 proper but on the flipside Golbez and Baron more or less, y'know, win their war and have bombed the absolute poo poo out of anyone that doesn't have a beard in the process, with the actual world-ending threat activated and taken down before it could do too much damage. Sooo... apocalypse adverted but coming really drat close, considering most of the world is still in the 'recovery' phase of things come The After Years? FF12 has the rise of the Dynast King- a conquering warlord who used magical nukes to take over the world by force- as the major pre-setting bit of history. It's unknown how bad the fighting got, but it's acknowledged he wielded the shards of the Sun-Cryst like a bludgeon during the unification of the Galtean Alliance, destroying civilizations at the request of the Occuria. And among the ruins of what came before Raithwall includes technology that the likes of which current-day Ivalice have been incapable of duplicating or reactivating centuries later, so there's definitely an implied 'dark age' in there. It's never directly spelled out, but it's not too hard to figure that FF12 HAD some kind of apocalypse... just one with a winner who came out of it having a pretty good time compared to everyone else.
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May 25, 2021 05:15
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8 also had some very, very obtuse allusions to some god of magic that escaped an angry mob by shedding his skin which became the first sorceress or some poo poo? 8 was weird.
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May 25, 2021 05:19
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Schwartzcough posted:8 also had some very, very obtuse allusions to some god of magic that escaped an angry mob by shedding his skin which became the first sorceress or some poo poo? 8 was weird. Two very obtuse allusions, the more detailed of the two being permanently missable and available for about 15 minutes in game. And yeah, that setting detail rules
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May 25, 2021 05:24
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Should be mentioned there was a war raging already when Raithwall got his Shards and he used them to put an end to the potential destruction of the world. That was the difference between him and Vayne, Vayne started everything that happened in XII. Raithwall apparently just ended what had already begun. (sorry, not really interested in potential FF RTSes, just wanna get the lore straight) NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 05:44 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 05:41
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Meanwhile FFXIV went through so many apocalypses Eorzean calendar counts dates by the time that passed since the last one.
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May 25, 2021 05:45
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I feel like “there was a war, in the past, and it was a big deal” is a pretty bog standard setting element
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May 25, 2021 05:52
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Moofia Boss Val posted:FF14: has the most mass death of any FF game bar Type-0. You wouldn't know it though because the tone of the game is very optimistic and downplays all of the mass death. 9 planets have been completely wiped out (7 calamities, Void, Midgardsomr's homeworld). Each time a calamity happens, civilization on the Source is also near completely wiped out. There is also the world of Norvrandt, which was 90% wiped out, the survivors of which were whittled during a 100 year long apocalypse. There was also (5.0 ending spoilers) the original timeline in which an 8th calamity happened, completely wiping out Norvrandt and plunging the Source into an age of might (warlordism). Also, lots of nation wide genocide. Ul'dah crafted a zombie plague and dumped it on their rival city of Ul'dah. The Garleans were very nearly driven to extinction in the past. also the original sundering where the entirety of Ascian civilization was annihilated with literally 3 survivors
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May 25, 2021 05:53
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thetoughestbean posted:I feel like “there was a war, in the past, and it was a big deal” is a pretty bog standard setting element Gotta have some justifications for ruins of a super advanced ancient civilization
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May 25, 2021 05:55
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NikkolasKing posted:Should be mentioned there was a war raging already when Raithwall got his Shards and he used them to put an end to the potential destruction of the world. Eh, more like Vayne just exploded powder kegs waiting to happen. The Senate had been plotting to install a puppet emperor for years. Vayne had no part in the whole treaty-signing or Ashe's path. He's pretty much just a convenient face of the Empire for Ashe and Vaan to hate until he actually moves the Bahamut above Rabanastre. He has no concern about the succession war or Dalmasca, he's just there to wipe out the puppetmasters in the Senate and the Occuria. If Vayne had stayed out of it, and Ashe just rose to Queen as was planned, she would still have to deal with the political system in Arcadia, and while Larsa was too wily for them to actually control, it would have made brokering actual peace a lot more difficult and drawn-out. Vayne's only human concern was making sure Larsa stayed innocent as long as possible.
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May 25, 2021 05:59
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Dr Pepper posted:Meanwhile FFXIV went through so many apocalypses Eorzean calendar counts dates by the time that passed since the last one. At least two of which were caused by wars (the Sixth by FFXIV's War of the Magi equivalent, the Seventh by the Garlean Empire to end 1.0). The Third Umbral Calamity was caused by the Allagan Empire while they were at war (with Bozja at the very least, I think Meracydia was conquered by then), but it seems at least right now that the project that ended things wasn't all that related to their warmongering beyond using captured P.O.W.s from a previous war. It'd be a bit like saying the Apollo program was an event in the Vietnam War. But of course, all of those Calamities were really caused by immortal space wizards who just used warring nations as means to an end. So that muddles things a bit. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 06:04 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 06:00
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ApplesandOranges posted:Eh, more like Vayne just exploded powder kegs waiting to happen. The Senate had been plotting to install a puppet emperor for years. Vayne had no part in the whole treaty-signing or Ashe's path. He's pretty much just a convenient face of the Empire for Ashe and Vaan to hate until he actually moves the Bahamut above Rabanastre. He has no concern about the succession war or Dalmasca, he's just there to wipe out the puppetmasters in the Senate and the Occuria. Hell if I can remember where it's said but I could swear it is stated Vayne was the one who came up with the plan to murder her father while framing Basch.
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May 25, 2021 06:08
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