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Nessus posted:It would legitimately be amazing if the people in the deliberately 'cybergoth-seasoned lovely fallout scavenger lifestyle' setting of Degenesis just suddenly had to deal with like, Metal Gear Rising cyborgs that got powered back on to take things over for Elon Musk. “Nano-memes, son!”
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Jun 1, 2021 00:57
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Nessus posted:It would legitimately be amazing if the people in the deliberately 'cybergoth-seasoned lovely fallout scavenger lifestyle' setting of Degenesis just suddenly had to deal with like, Metal Gear Rising cyborgs that got powered back on to take things over for Elon Musk. One of the things that got lost in general mess that was MGS4s plot was the quiet, incredibly flexible and somewhat post-apocalyptic (in that the bad guys had won) plane bound family home base setting. While they got saddled to all the overburdened nonsense of 4s ambition the game really could have been a great open world game (like we now know Kojima can make), and a pretty good RPG setting PoontifexMacksimus fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jun 1, 2021 |
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Jun 1, 2021 00:58
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The MGR status quo of a small number of ultra-elite cyborg supersoldiers being able to plow through literally any opposition in their way is begging for a tabletop game.
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Jun 1, 2021 01:24
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wiegieman posted:The MGR status quo of a small number of ultra-elite cyborg supersoldiers being able to plow through literally any opposition in their way is begging for a tabletop game. Not to mention the chance to finally really fill out the metaplot  Kojima is obviously a nerd. Has he ever spoken of playing tabletop games himself? I'm not his biggest fanboy, but he seems like he would be fairly cool with seeing his world adapted like that Thought thinking again I have no idea how much control he actually has over the franchise copyrights PoontifexMacksimus fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jun 1, 2021 |
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Jun 1, 2021 01:43
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He has none. Metal Gear is Konami’s and they fired him.
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Jun 1, 2021 02:24
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Mors Rattus posted:He has none. Metal Gear is Konami’s and they fired him. That's really the only reason he kept making MGS games after 2, because he knew if he didn't Konami would've just hired someone else and we seen what happened when they did fire him.
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Jun 1, 2021 02:27
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kommy5 posted:I'm still trying trying to figure out what Degenesis thinks memes are. They keep using that word and I don't think it means what Degenesis thinks it means. The original meaning of meme, as far as I know, is used in sociology to study the spread of ideas. It's supposed to be treating ideas like genes, subject to similar evolutionary pressures and the need to reproduce. It's a genuinely fascinating field, offering insights into such things as religions and government forms. It's not magic, and it doesn't explain everything, but it's a useful lens through which you can study and explain real world phenomena. One interesting case study I read was looking at the shift in dominant world religions from being mostly polytheist to mostly monotheist, using a memetic framework to show how the religions that spread reflect the meme-evolutionary pressures of the world they are in. What memes are not: mind control powers and/or reprogramming tools
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Jun 1, 2021 02:28
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MGR will forever be memorable to me for being one of the few times a villain has given the 'not so different' speech and gotten 'You know what, yeah. We're not' and had immediate cause to regret this.
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Jun 1, 2021 02:35
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Kaza42 posted:One interesting case study I read was looking at the shift in dominant world religions from being mostly polytheist to mostly monotheist, using a memetic framework to show how the religions that spread reflect the meme-evolutionary pressures of the world they are in. Do you have a link for that study? It would be very interesting to see: my understanding has been that many people outside the "monotheist core" have often had no problem with imagining a common spiritual source of all gods of spirits, but that they usually rarely specifically worship it. Mors Rattus posted:He has none. Metal Gear is Konami’s and they fired him. That really sucks, but such is life under capitalism. I guess we should look forward to trying to capture that Resident Evil Village energy with a new Beauty and the Beast member... 
PoontifexMacksimus fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jun 1, 2021 |
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Jun 1, 2021 02:41
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Night10194 posted:MGR will forever be memorable to me for being one of the few times a villain has given the 'not so different' speech and gotten 'You know what, yeah. We're not' and had immediate cause to regret this. "besides, this isn't my sword" is such a stupid line and I love it so much.
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Jun 1, 2021 03:05
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The Lone Badger posted:
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Jun 1, 2021 04:51
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Kaza42 posted:The original meaning of meme, as far as I know, is used in sociology to study the spread of ideas. It's supposed to be treating ideas like genes, subject to similar evolutionary pressures and the need to reproduce. It's a genuinely fascinating field, offering insights into such things as religions and government forms. It's not magic, and it doesn't explain everything, but it's a useful lens through which you can study and explain real world phenomena. One interesting case study I read was looking at the shift in dominant world religions from being mostly polytheist to mostly monotheist, using a memetic framework to show how the religions that spread reflect the meme-evolutionary pressures of the world they are in. My impression is that memes were more or less an attempt to use the tools of non-sociology (specifically, evolutionary theory) to talk about sociological phenomena, and that it was sort of neat but never really panned out as a sociological approach. Sociologists don't really talk about memes, usually, and even evolutionary biologist types have often come to say that memes were an interesting but infertile approach to the history of ideas. Basically Dawkins came up with an interesting idea, but it didn't turn out to be of much practical applicability. But that very 'apply a body of 'hard' science to a 'soft' science' approach appealed to SFF nerds, who love to approach everything as engineering and also assume that if a thing can be framed in a certain way, it can be engineered that way. Which is why we get meme therapy a la gene therapy in Degenesis.
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Jun 1, 2021 05:08
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Kojima is obviously a nerd. Has he ever spoken of playing tabletop games himself? Well, if Kojima still had the rights, the most potent way of going about things would be to introduce Mads Mikkelsen to TTRPGs... 
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Jun 1, 2021 05:19
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wiegieman posted:The MGR status quo of a small number of ultra-elite cyborg supersoldiers being able to plow through literally any opposition in their way is begging for a tabletop game. Sounds like an Infinity hack to be honest. The minis are even the correct amount of horny.
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Jun 1, 2021 05:33
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Regarding Degenesis' memes, here's how the extra rules sourcebook describes them.Degenesis Artifacts Sourcebook posted:M E M E T I C S I imagine it like those speedruns of old games, where if you know exactly when and where, your controller inputs can actually alter the ram of the game, letting you do poo poo like skip levels. The principals are the same here, by flooding someone's mind with a carefully crafted selection of words, images, sounds, etc, you can reprogram their minds. This of course, isn't what memes are and something like mind-control nanites would make a lot more sense, but I digress.
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Jun 1, 2021 05:41
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^this of course requires you to have absolute knowledge of the state before you start messing with it, and given that human brains start as semi-random neural nets and develop from there*, each and every human is going to be completely different. * we don't even come preloaded with how many limbs we have. The neural net has to work that out by experiment, figure out what nerve signals cause what response, and basically code its own drivers. Plug in an extra limb and it'll change again to accomodate and drive it.
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Jun 1, 2021 06:01
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Do you have a link for that study? It would be very interesting to see: my understanding has been that many people outside the "monotheist core" have often had no problem with imagining a common spiritual source of all gods of spirits, but that they usually rarely specifically worship it. Not off hand, I'll try and find it though. It largely focused on European and near-Eastern religions, since like genes the evolutionary pressure on memes is very localized. IIRC one thing it argued is that monotheist religions are better at exclusion* which leads to them being able to reach a critical mass where they can act as a... I don't remember how they put it in the case study. But basically, the "meme" equivalent of a state. Even if it's spread across multiple political states, a religious bloc can act as a stable state-like entity for its followers. Compare the relatively loose control religious authorities had over the subjects of the Roman Empire to the control the Church(es) had over the same area after Christianity rose into power**. * Monotheistic religions syncretize aspects of other religions, most famously (to a Western audience) the habit of early Christianity to take over holidays. However, this pales in comparison to the level of syncretization and even outright combination that could result from polytheistic religions interacting ** Naturally, for most of its history Church power hasn't been absolute (and there isn't just a single Church authority), but on the whole it has had a larger controlling role than polytheistic faiths. I'm simplifying a lot here And, as Joe Slowboat pointed out, Memes aren't really a dominant idea in the field. It's more interesting than useful in most cases. But I've found that framing things in memetic terms can help step back to look at ideas as systems. It can provide some insight even when it fails to grasp the whole picture
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Jun 1, 2021 07:02
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Night10194 posted:It's not a surprise that shithead fascists dream of the idea that you can just control a person if you find the right words/ideology and blast them with it like it was magic. Isn't that basically the Anti-Life Equation?
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Jun 1, 2021 08:10
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 Part Seven: Party Time! With Genivee back in town and the circus reunited, it's time for the town phase of the routine. Generally speaking Flying Circus suggests a "no pilot left behind" attitude, where the phase doesn't actually start until all pilots have made it home. That's the way we're handling it here, but the book also says it's fine to "split screen" it, and have the characters who made it home start the town phase while cutting back to whoever is still trying to get back. It won't break anything mechanically, it just might be more complicated to roleplay. Before we get to the fun stuff, though, there's some quick bookkeeping to do, that isn't really roleplayed. First off is figuring out Stress. After the mission, when the adrenaline high wears off, you have to reckon with all the poo poo you just lived through. To start with, every plane has a base Stress stat: you get that many Stress just for flying a mission in that plane, representing how physically and mentally taxing it is to fly. A plane like Wilbur's Teicher Mammut, with its fully-enclosed cockpit and stable, easy flight characteristics, only inflicts 1 Stress on its pilot and none at all on its other crewmembers (not that NPCs take Stress in our case, but assuming a PC is manning one of the guns), whereas a highly unstable little turn-fighter like Gunther's Kreuzer Spinne or the Ritter Model F Singvogel (based on the Sopwith Camel, notorious for being nearly as likely to kill you in a training flight as in combat) inflict 3. (In case you were wondering, the highest-Stress plane currently published is the von Morgen Pferd, an ultraheavy bomber based on the Zeppelin-Staaken R.VI with a pilot Stress of 4, and there are two planes in the core that are so easy to fly they inflict 0 Stress. Notably, these two planes are entirely fictional and not based on any real-world aircraft.) In addition, every playbook has a list of Stress triggers which, if they occur during the mission, inflict more Stress on the pilot. Farmers, for example, take 2 Stress if they took a life during the mission, whereas Soldiers are inured to killing but take Stress if they fight nonhuman enemies. The book is a little unclear on whether you're supposed to count each instance of a Stress trigger separately or if you're just supposed to treat it as "this happened at least once, ergo Stress." The general model of end-of-session questions in PbtA tends to suggest the latter but it does say "when in doubt, err on the side of more Stress," so I'm inclined to go with the former. And the book isn't wrong here--stress is the fuel for the engine that generates both XP and drama, you want to have a lot of it. And finally, in extraordinary circumstances the GM (or even the player themselves) can assign extra Stress, either for edge cases where the Stress triggers don't quite cover something that really should be stressful or for when a particular event hits a character especially hard. So I was wrong in a previous update when I said there weren't any rules for handing out extra Stress--it's not specifically formulated as a GM move, but it is here. Since our pilots don't have playbooks yet, I'm going to arbitrarily say that Wilbur has 3 Stress, Gunther has 6, and Genivee is maxed out at 10. At 5 Stress, you are considered Stressed. While Stressed, you cannot spend XP. Stress maxes out at 10, at which point you are considered Burned Out, which means you can't lead negotiations, suffer Disadvantage on some social moves, and can't even bring yourself to fly again. However, you don't lose the Burned Out status until you are no longer Stressed, which means you need to clear at least 6 Stress to be able to fly the next mission--and since Flying Circus doesn't want players sitting out missions, that means you have to get everybody out of Burnout.  Next up is company reputation. Again, it's two sets of questions about what happened on the mission, and for every "Yes" you mark either the Fame or Infamy track to get a sense of how well-liked you are or aren't. Mark either track 5 times and you get a Fame move (which are perks based on your heroic reputation, like getting offered more money for certain kinds of job or getting discounts on goods and services when you're protecting a town) or an Infamy move (which are straight-up penalties like "your opponents will never accept your surrender" or "someone puts a death mark on you"). To be fair, you have to be doing genuinely terrible stuff to be earning Infamy and most PC Circuses shouldn't be accruing it much, so I don't mind them being straight penalties, and there are a few ways to ditch Infamy moves: Replacing a squadron leader usually gets a circus a second chance, or if you complete a mission that ticks all of the Fame boxes and none of the Infamy boxes, you can remove an Infamy move instead of taking the Fame ticks. For our example, I think the only trigger that really applies is "Was the mission witnessed and end up making you look skilled?" Genivee's bandit prisoner can tell the town that the Hellions actually knocked out an engine on a goddamn Luftzerstorer, which is worth a tick of Fame. With that bookkeeping out of the way, we can move on to stress relief. Gunther and Wilbur have been at the local pub/restaurant since they landed, drinking increasingly-maudlin and increasingly-incoherent toasts to Genivee's memory. Their toasts are also getting increasingly loud and increasingly vulgar, and when one of the locals asks them to please keep it down for the sake of the children, Gunther interprets that as an insult to his fallen comrade and throws a punch. Things devolve rapidly from there (which delights the children even more than hearing naughty words had), and it takes a promise of a round of drinks for the bar and paying for the repairs to said bar before our Hellions can extricate themselves. Nursing bruised egos and blacked eyes, they decide that maybe it's time to continue the memorial service elsewhere. When you Indulge in Vice, you mark one circle on your five-circle Vice track. When you fill this track or decide to call it a night, you'll make the End of Night move to see how much Stress you actually clear, but our boys are nowhere close to done yet. They each mark one Vice for Drinking. In addition, there are different effects if you indulge alone or indulge with another comrade--alone, you overdo it and take a mechanical penalty later. With comrades, you describe how you get disruptive, argumentative, or distracted, and suffer a narrative complication--in this case, starting a brawl, which conveniently enough is one of Gunther's Familiar Vices. Every character has a couple of "familiar Vices," which are their go-to self-destructive behaviors for coping with Stress. When you indulge in an unfamiliar Vice, as Wilbur is here, you have to roll+Daring--no matter what, it counts as indulging, but on a 16+ you add the new Vice as a familiar one, and on a miss you suffer worse consequences at the End of Night. Indulging with a character who does have said Vice counts as Help, so Wilbur rolls with Advantage and gets a 14--he doesn't pick up Brawling as a new Vice, but he doesn't end up any worse off for this punch-up. Both boys mark a second Vice tick for the fight. As for brawling itself, there's actually a move for that, unlike drinking yourself into early-onset cirrhosis, so in this case Gunther will roll (Brawl is a +Hard move and his Hard is way better) with Help from Wilbur. He gets a 15, meaning he gets to pick a single option from a list of choices like "Hurt someone real bad" or "get out clean and relatively unscathed." In this case, Gunther chooses to clear 1 Stress, which, by virtue of the options he didn't pick, means that the pilots definitely lost the brawl and don't get out clean, which we'll model as having to buy a round of drinks and pay for damages before slinking off into the night. That immediate clearing of Stress means Wilbur's down to 2 and Gunther's down to 5. Speaking of paying for things, let's talk about money. Would it surprise you to learn that pilots tend to be wildly irresponsible with money? In keeping their Circuses running, pilots are used to dealing with vast sums of money--a thaler is enough to live on reasonably for a month or so, or to live like crap for a year, and Gunther's plane costs that in upkeep every mission. Al told the cost of operating the squadron for a single mission is probably on the order of "buy an entire town." Is it any wonder pilots tend to see anything smaller than a thaler as barely even real? The way the game models this is that, any time a PC buys something that's not worth a full thaler--doesn't matter how big or small, could be a single drink, could be a round for the bar, whatever, you make a tally mark on a piece of paper labeled TAB. At the end of the routine, when it comes time to settle up, we'll roll to see how much, in thalers, the tab actually ends up costing, because like the old saying goes, "a couple hundred here, a couple hundred there, pretty soon you're talking about real money." At this point, the crew's Tab sits at 4--1 each for Gunther and Wilbur's drinks, plus a further 1 for buying off the patrons and 1 more for the repairs. Finally, given that the Hellions just punched up a bar and wrecked the place, we're also going to start a six-segment "town patience" clock and fill one segment in. If that clock is completely filled, the Hellions will be kicked out of town! While meandering back to their hangar, singing loudly and off-key, the boys hear a stream of familiar invective coming from the general direction of the town jail--it sounds like Genivee! Scarcely believing their ears, they run (okay, stumble) over to find Genivee herself, apparently undead (no, wait, that's different--not dead, she's not dead), tearing a strip off of the poor night watchwoman trying to drag her in along with the two injured bandits. Gunther and Wilbur back her up and make a bunch of noise about "ungrateful townies" and how maybe next time they'll just let the bandits choke off the town's trade routes if this is how the Saviors of Schuntertissen are treated, and ultimately convince the guards to let her go. Genivee is Venting at the guards. Vent is a Stress-relief move only available to Burned Out characters, in which you lash out at other people to make yourself feel better, to the tune of 2 Stress removed. You'll probably need to Vent at least once, since it's pretty unlikely the basic Stress loop is going to clear the 6 Stress minimum you need to be able to fly again. If you Vent at NPCs, consequences unfold from the narrative, but if you direct your ire at a fellow PC, you remove one additinal Stress, but your comrade takes one. With the other pilots' word as leverage (and their threats as Help), Genivee can now Press the Issue with the guards to get them to release her. Using threats or implied threats is a roll+Hard (you can also roll+Calm to convince them with honest reasoning or +Keen to baffle them with bullshit), and Genivee gets a full success, so they do it with no strings attached. We're still going to mark another segment of the Patience clock as fallout from the Venting, though. After a teary reunion, an ill-advised attempt to sneak into the back of the bar to liberate a couple of bottles of bubbly for a celebration followed by a late-night polizei chase through the backyards of the town that ends in the failed commandeering of the burgermeisterin's prize bodenwagen (it's so weird, you guys, it's like a plane with no wings and instead of a propeller the engine turns the wheels) and many, many bribes, our "heroes" end the night in the town drunk tank, laughingly reminiscing about how the day that started with surprise zeppelin ambush somehow ended even crazier. Having dodged death yet again, they drop off one by one into the sleep of the young for whom tomorrow's hangover is so far distant that it's practically someone else's problem. Okay, rather than play out the rest of the stress-relief phase beat by beat, we're going to summarize. Everyone has maxed out their Vice tracks at 5 marks, the final Tab is now at 8, and they've filled 5 marks on the Town Patience clock. The Tab we'll handle next update, but let's make the End of Night move for everybody. At End of Night, you roll 1d20 for each mark on the Vice track, then clear it. Any d20 that comes up 11-15 clears 1 Stress, a 16+ clears 2, and if you get three or more misses, you suffer a consequence. If you revisited the same Vice more than once in the night, you take one automatic Miss on the move--Flying Circus wants you getting up to hijinks, not just sitting around drinking all night. Remember, cleared Stress converts directly into XP, so you want to build up a lot and then clear it. Gunther rolls first and gets a 2, 10, 12, 16, and 19, which is pretty drat good! With two misses he just skirts a drawback, and he clears 5 Stress--that's more than he actually has, and I kind of wish there was an effect for clearing more Stress than you have, but there's not--Gunther is now completely unstressed and has 5 XP total to spend later--which he can actually do now, since he's no longer Stressed. Wilbur rolls even better, and ironically needs it even less. With only 1 Stress remaining after the Brawl cleared one, he rolled 4, 11, 16, 18, 20--that would actually be enough to recover from Burnout! Finally, Genivee completely ruins the ridiculous good-luck streak by rolling 4, 4, 9, 10, 14--only enough to clear 1 Stress (bringing her down to 7) and forcing her to choose between becoming addicted to a Vice she indulged, Immune to one, or suffer a -1 ongoing penalty to all rolls the next mission. She's going to choose to become addicted to "petty crime" because that amuses me greatly. She's also still Burned Out, since she's still above 4 Stress--I expect that in the morning she's going to lash out at either Gunther or Wilbur, Venting for 3 Stress recovery for herself at the cost of 1 Stress for them. There is, incidentally, one other way to recover Stress we didn't get to here. You can develop an NPC (or a PC, but that's potentially a bad idea) as a Confidant. A Confidant NPC, unlike most NPCs, has mechanical Trust with their PC partner, which can be broken if you treat them poorly. As long as your Confidant Trusts you, you can spend some quality time with them once per routine and automatically clear 2 Stress, no strings attached. On the downside, if you break their Trust and don't repair it in the same routine, or if your Confidant is injured or killed, you take a boatload of Stress. There's no limit to how many Confidants a PC can have, and one character can be multiple PCs' Confidant, but that "once per routine" rule is once total, no matter how many confidants you have. As the book says, "being poly is cool, but it's not magic." (Confidants don't have to be romantic partners, incidentally, beloved friends or family members are also acceptable.) Next Time: Money Matters! 
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Jun 1, 2021 12:36
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Isn't that basically the Anti-Life Equation? It's basically the Anti-Life Equation crossed with early Richard Dawkins, yeah
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Jun 1, 2021 15:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Isn't that basically the Anti-Life Equation? loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding ⋅ guilt ⋅ shame ⋅ failure ⋅ judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side That was my sigblock on forums about 20 years ago.
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Jun 1, 2021 16:51
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I can't stop thinking about the phrase "quit his job to become a wizard". Like one day an employee calls me up early and is like "sorry boss, this is my notice. I've decided to become a wizard"
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Jun 1, 2021 17:00
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`Age of Sigmar: Nighthaunt Avatars of Betrayal The Knights of Shrouds are the primary leaders of processions. In life, each was a powerful military commander who chose, in the last, to betray their people and sell their soul to Nagash in return for power and immortality. Nagash kept the deal, in a sense - now, they will never permanently die, after all - but punished them for their treachery, because Nagash is an rear end in a top hat. He has been hunting for these souls since the Age of Myth, offering the deal to generals that face his forces every time. Most deny him, because they're not idiots, but Nagash has time on his side, and over time, he's collected quite a few souls this way. These traitors have been made into his spectral generals, many given underworlds to rule over. It is only now that the Legion of Grief has formed that Nagash has found greater use for them and unleashed them on the world. All Knights of Shrouds are cursed to never forget the soldiers and peoples they betrayed to become what they are. All of them, even the most callous, feels regret and pain over their own deeds. This drives them to push ever harder in service to Nagash, to try and convince themsleves that they had no choice and that anyone would have done it in the same position. They never can, for the curse of Nagash ensures they can never rid themselves of doubt nor forget their many sins, even as they slaughter the living en masse. Each is armed with a Sword of Stolen Hours, a powerful mystic blade that steals the soul energy of those it strikes to heal and empower the ghost wielding it. Many of the Knights also ride into battle on ghostly horses, though others prefer to fight on fight. All are amazing fencers, having only improved in their many lifetimes of undeath. The Knights of Shrouds are not selected solely for their personal power, however. They are also tacticians and leaders who deeply understand the techniques and arts of warfare. Their commands ring out in the minds of their spectral soldiers, filling them with ferocity and vigor. Nighthaunts instinctively obey the Knights and take joy in the deaths they are commanded to cause. The Knights are each attended by Dreadblade Harrows, who serve them as officers. In life, each one was someone who saw their leader's treachery and refused to take a side, neither joining them nor opposing them. Nagash considered that to be shameful and cursed them in death, compelling them to slavishly serve their treacherous former leaders for eternity. Each one is deeply better about this and often hates the Knight of Shrouds they serve, but can do literally nothing but obey. They are even less corporeal than most of the Nighthaunt, able to teleport and discorporate at will to reappear elsewhere. They often serve as bodyguards for important ghosts or outriders and scouts ahead of the army. They cannot even try to disobey commands, no matter how dishonorable or hateful they may find them. The Spirit Torments, meanwhile, are the ghostly lords of the Great Oubliette, an underworld the size of a continent which is full of dark and icy dungeons. The Shyishians know them as shacklegheists, and once they were extremely rare. After the necroquake, however, far more have come forth to lead the ghostly processions of the Nighthaunt. Nagash trusts them intimately, for theirs is the job of capturing the souls of those whom he has deemed transgressors of his law, those who have escaped their fate. Spirit Torments are most often found leading Nighthaunt armies that are tasked to hunt down and capture key souls. They are the bounty hunters of the dungeon-underworld, the wardens who bind others in ghostly chains of malefic and ritual-enchanted iron. Their chains hold not just bodies but souls, keeping any bound in them from escaping of their own will even in death. It is only when the locks are opened that they can be let go - and that only really happens when the Torments deliver their captives to the jailer-kings of the Oubliette or the Mortarchs. What happens to those captured by the Torments depends greatly on how strong their souls and what crimes they committed in life. Most are cursed to become lesser Nighthaunts, but some are dropped into subdimensions linked to the Oubliette to be eternal prisoners. A few are reserved for torture by a Mortarch or even Nagash himself, should they be especially hated. In theory, a Spirit Torment can capture any drifting soul recently severed from their physical form, but they are cruel and malicious ghosts who vastly prefer being the ones to kill their victims, typically by beating them to death with their own shacklegheist chains, which function just as well as a heavy flail. They deeply enjoy their work, but while murder and kidnapping are fun for them, their favorite part is their job as wardens. They are able at any time to gaze into the prisons they carry and drat spirits to, and they love doing that. They are able to devour the hope and energy of those they trap, feeding on it to empower themselves and replacing it with angst and dread. Because they steal so much power from their victims, Spirit Torments give off a constant aura of despair and evil, which takes the form of a pale, greenish glow full of leering faces and echoing screams. Even those who cannot see or hear can feel the dread that flows off of the Torments constantly, and the living are often overcome by fear and depression around them. This aura empowers the Nighthaunt forces, however, driving them to even greater spite and violence. Most Spirit Torments are drawn from those who, in life, were slavers or jailers of great infamy. Karceris the Black-Hearted, for example, was the prison-lord of the Gristlespine tribes during the Chaos conquest of the lands of Morthave, for example. At the end of his life, he became desperate to redeem himself with penitence, but it was not enough. Nagash took his soul and bound him to serve as the ghostly overseer of the Cryptopolis, the great dungeon of Nagashizzar.  The Torments are served by Chainghasts. Quite a lot of ghosts come from the same stock - those who died in captivity. Many captives plead for the mercy of the gods, guilty and innocent alike. Nagash never acts to save them - he doesn't care about guilt or innocence or slavery or suffering or torture. However, he does note which souls cry out to him for aid and which ones do not. That changes what happens after he gets his hands on them. Chainghasts are made from those who ask Nagash for his mercy as they lay imprisoned and die in chains. They receive no mercy in death - Nagash finds it funny to keep them imprisoned even after they die, and each is locked in an armored harness of chains and iron padlocks. They are further bound to weights and heavy chains made from cursed black-iron, a metal that is alloyed with solidified fear and despair of dying slaves. These are to be the weapons of the Chainghasts, known as ghastflails. The job of a Chainghast is simple: reap new souls for Nagash by beating people to death with their ghastflails. As the ghastflails fly through the air, they gather more and more despair and misery to them. A Chainghast can use the chains as a sling, launching this energy as a corrosive and deadly bolt into an enemy's soul. They do so without mercy, for their existence is bound to a single command: obey the Spirit Torment that has been named their master. They are slaves to the Torment's commands, no matter what they are. Their faces and minds are sealed in iron masks, but they retain dim memories of their old lives, dreamlike and hard to grasp. Each one feels a deep yearning for freedom from their slavery, but is completely unable to act on that yearning. They, like the Dreadblade Harrows, are cursed to total obedience. Their minds are trapped in the prison of their ghostly forms, wishing to be free yet stuck eternally as slaves. Dead necromancers, meanwhile, become Guardians of Souls. They were those who used amethyst magic to extend their own lives, yet who could not achieve enough mastery to evade Nagash and who did not choose to serve him directly. While their lives were often long, they died and were taken by Nagash, reshaped into beings who could summon forth more ghosts to battle or repair the damage done to spiritual forms. They wield chill blades or mauls of judgment, but these are not their true weapons. They are simply tools. The actual armament of a Guardian is a nightmare lantern or a mortality glass. The nightmare lanterns are grim beacons lit by the Flame of Nagashizzar. Their smoke does not rise upwards, but falls down ot the ground. The vapors of it heal and empower nearby spectres, and a Guardian can channel the lantern to move the smoke into the earth, calling forth new Nighthaunts from the grave or chilling the living and freezing them to death. Mortality glasses, on the other hand, are hourglasses enchanted with powerful amethyst magic. They can slow time and trap enemies in nightmarish loops, or grant ghosts the speed of thought itself, allowing them to race across a battlefield in instants. The Lords Executioner are the ghosts of those who, in life, were executioners that knowingly slew the innocent as well as the guilty. Those who claimed they were simply doing their duty, who enjoyed their work too much or who were slain by relatives of the innocents they killed are especially likely to be taken by the Nighthaunt curse. They are remade into Nagash's headsmen, whose duty is to slay those heroes and champions that defy his law. Each is armed with a gigantic headsman's axe, and many also bear spectral versions of the old tools of their trade - gallows, torture wheels, racks. They are forever surrounded by burning skull-faces, which are the images of the innocents they slew in life. The Lords Executioner are cursed to always be harassed by their victims, mocked and insulted constantly. However, the burning skulls also protect them, warding off sword strikes and incoming spells. These cruel, mocking skulls do so not out of mercy or protection, but because they cannot allow their killer to escape their sins or find rest in death. Next time: Mass murderers, the betrayed and serial killers
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Jun 1, 2021 17:15
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding ⋅ guilt ⋅ shame ⋅ failure ⋅ judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side Actually now I'm very curious, who actually wrote that? I'm reasonably certain it wasn't Kirby, but I have no idea who it was.
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Jun 1, 2021 17:26
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Joe Slowboat posted:Actually now I'm very curious, who actually wrote that? I'm reasonably certain it wasn't Kirby, but I have no idea who it was. It's from the Seven Soldiers Mister Miracle miniseries.
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Jun 1, 2021 17:40
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Grant Morrison, probably.
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Jun 1, 2021 17:42
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Hipster Occultist posted:This of course, isn't what memes are and something like mind-control nanites would make a lot more sense, but I digress. The Degenesis conception of memes would be pretty cool in a game that was more. . .exaggerated? Like, a lot of fantasy is taking something complex and subtle and turning it into something more mythic and simple. A setting where you can craft advertising campaigns that take on a life of their own and aggressively infect people's minds isn't inherently dumb--it may not be realistic, but it's taking something real and making it more tangible and understandable. Saying that it fits badly with the otherwise 'realism' of Degenesis seems like a fair take, though.
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Jun 1, 2021 18:24
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From Hell pt. 16: Marauders Degenesis Rebirth Katharsys Chapter 10: From Hell MARAUDERS  Masks quote:Concrete statues of naked people in olympic poses stood in masonry openings. Some were blank and gray, others painted gaily. At least our fascist boy Marko acknowledges that the statues Twitter ractionaries use in their avs actually looked super tacky. The intro fiction is about Fragment Impulse meeting Marauder Triglaw. It's boring and only noticeable for this stilted nonsense dialogue as Marko's attempt at clipped Techpriest can't. quote:“Cathedral City. Have you broken through the Crux?” Eat my whole rear end, the writers for Warhammer 40,000: Mechanicus can write circles around this poo poo. Myth Nobody knows anything about Marauders, just that there's a handful of them, “they are clad in pus-covered bandages as if these were the last things holding them together,” they eat Sleepers, and can destroy anything in their way. Vulture and Aries are theorized to be two of them. Excuse me, who the gently caress collates this data? And who really knows about Sleepers? Is this just Chronicler and Spitalian intel?  Agenda Hey, remember how renegade Sleepers can just go make themselves tiny warlords by supplying select Clanners with poo poo? quote:Clanners tell about moonless nights when death incarnate lurks in the shadows of the huts and whispers messages into the windowcases. Those who listen will soon be led into forgotten storages and labs, can salvage books, weapons, or embryos encased in resin. He sees drawings of arbors and zodiac signs, walks through rows of rotting plants, and stares through glass into dark operating theatres. Marauders operate essentially the same way. The main difference being that Marauders live forever and can (or have) wipe out a Clan on a whim. And unlike renegade sleepers partaking in warlordism, which HC mentioned basically never happens in the fluff, we do have a few examples of Marauders playing Black and White with the savages.  Hey, what if Fallout ghouls were cyborgs? BEARING TL;DR this is the intelligence that Chroniclers have on Marauders. ASPERA THE ONE-LEGGED quote:Her face, framed by laterally protruding pigtails, is harmonious and emotionless, like a plastic mask. When she speaks or smiles, her countenance splinters, as if it had been caught under a thin layer of ice. One blink later, the cracks have healed, and her face seems immaculate as always. So much for puss-drenched monsters - I for one love our schoolgirl geisha overlord. Aspera's cybernetic leg is also holding up well, thanks for asking. Aside from her being described as a lithe huntress with an unknown quarry, we’re only informed that she has previously worked with Chroniclers, either giving information, or demanding sacrifice. ARIES THE RAM quote:His enemies fall to the dust before him, vomiting blood and entrails. Aside from that, we only get a description of Aries’ black fleece (same as regular black fleece) and that he's been last seen in Greek islands with the Arianoi. Yes, Aries gets about same amount of space devoted to him as Aspera's waifu face, why do you ask? ARGYRE THE VULTURE No living soul has seen him and lived to tell about it for centuries. He also an army of Sleepers he has enslaved with the “yoke:” quote:The device encases their shoulders like a leech and... changes… whenever the wearer strays too far.  So does it pop their heads off or spouts tentacles to do hentai stuff? Whatever the truth may be, the description is unbearably worse. Argyre is also shooting lasers into space or something.  "Behold! The ravages brought onto the body by indulging in masturbation!" GUSEV Noreth is full of AMSUMOs. Scrappers divide it into 6 zones (more like rings) according to the danger level: 1 is fairly safe, 5 only has one report from, and 6 can only be observed from afar, as a wind-up artificial Nazi patrol will spot you immediately: quote:It would take under a minute for an interloper to hear a distorted, “Stop, show your papers!” Ihre papieren, bitte indeed. Gusev stumbled into Noreth 100 years ago and the bots ignored him. Today, there's wheat and apple trees there – without any explanation or any farmer to reap the harvest. ICEBREAKER Once a year, Icebreaker barges into Spitalian poo poo in Danzig, demanding the newest results on Primer and Psychonaut research. He's on a timer as his voice fades the longer he stays. Icreabreaker wanders out after a day. quote:If he is satisfied, he leaves something behind: an artifact; a booklet full of formulas; a hand-drawn map of “subterranean growths.” CHERNOBOG Chernobog flattened Praha. Eventually, he turned to Balkhan, where he's destroying cities, forests, and Dushani on his way to Pest. We already know what he wants because HC told us: Praha was the center of his brother's org that was torturing/controlling Chernobog, and that org is now in Pest. TRIGLAW THE THREE-HEADED Worshipped by savages that make horse sculptures in his honor, Triglaw had broken into Hellvetic tunnels in the past. Nobody knows what he wants. Tactics Marauders are loners and go berserk in combat just like an AMSUMO would. So much for them being larger than life demi-god characters with their own personalities and motivations.  Potential: Ambrosia Marauders are hosed up, but as long as they're high on Ambrosia [Sleeper blood], they feel invulnerable. quote:A crystalline cotton that is sharp as a handful of razor blades scabs over any wound they suffer within seconds. Torn organs mend or are repelled and replaced by duplicates. That feels a lot more powerful than what Sleeper blood does for actual Sleepers! Except that it doesn’t help Marauders against diseases and poison - hey, remember when I was excited about Spitalians dropping chlorine gas at their own feet at the start of a battle? Maybe it’s time to dust that off…  In any case, Ambrosia is consumed as a Marauder gets damaged, and as Ambrosia goes low, they get desperate. As it comes to rules, each Marauder has a pool of Ambrosia. Without even spending an action, they can use point to heal 4 Flesh wounds or 1 Trauma. quote:The healing starts at once; the Marauder does not have to spend an Action on it. I assume this means they heal that much per round, not like in a day. It's interesting that the healing effect is much more rapid in Marauders, but it actually consumes Ambrosia. Sleepers have no such issues, so they must be replenishing their nanite supply somehow, right? In a better game this would be explained as Marauders overworking the nanites to give them instant regeneration and Sleeper bodies actually having modifications that produce new nanobots, but this isn't a better game. It's Degenesis. Potential: Nanite Low The flipside of Ambrosia. quote:Marauders have escaped death for so long that their soul tears apart when they finally face it and their foul nature breaks through. They cling to the escaping life madly, know neither friend nor foe, fight by all means and without any consideration. Wait, how is that different from the berserk state described in the Tactics section?  Bad things happen when Ambrosia goes below 5. The Marauders go insane, their bodies start rotting, etc.. Hey, wait, none of these have mechanical effects, and the explanation that it’s how Aspera lost her leg or why Gusev's skull has rotted isn’t doing much for the GM!  Variant: Creature WE WILL NOT BE GETTING RULES FOR NAMED MARAUDERS WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT NON-NAMED MARAUDERS EXIST I THOUGHT THEY WERE ALL RG GROUP BOARD MEMBERS WHERE WOULD THE OTHER MARAUDERS COME FROM AND WHY WOULD THEY SUFFER FROM ENTROPY NANITES Or we're expected to match named characters to the variants and hope for the best. Probably not, though: with what we know about Marko, all named Marauders are probably encased in impervious hardened plot armor. Anyway, the Creature is the Marauder hobo. quote:Torn by eons-old pains, the Marauder flees into the wasteland. He cannot stand the laughter of humans anymore, finds their joy repulsive—though it awakens a burning desire within him at the same time. He steers clear. Is this meant to imply that some tech zombies live in human settlements until they hit an Ambrosia low and run away to shield their ugliness? In any case, these desperate bastards are seeking out RG facilities for nanite injections – and here I thought you could only get those by eating Sleepers. pre:P R O F I L E : T H E C R E AT U R E INITIATIVE: 5D / 2 Ego Points SPECIALTY: Ambrosia 6, INS+Orienteering 14D ATTACK: Giant spiked club, 6D, range 2m, damage 10, impact (2 T) DEFENSE: Passive 3 (flowing cape, grotesque movements) Melee active (Block), Melee 6D Ranged combat active (unusual movements), Mobility 5D Mental 3D (does not lose consciousness at 0 Ego Points but goes mad and attacks savagely) MOVEMENT: 6D ARMOR: Composite armor, Armor 6, bulletproof (9), bandages; Cape CONDITION: 28 (Trauma: 6) I don't think that freaky movement is a sufficient enough explanation for the defense increases, especially when post-Eschaton Europe is filled with grotesque, unusual critters. I'm glad the bandages are somehow part of the armor. Also, having 6D in melee while using a weapon with Impact 2 is just asking to swing once, get stuck, and then be cut to pieces. Soulburner  The bit in the front suggests this to be a flamethrower, the grip doesn't provide any, but at least the stock isn't meant to cut the shoulder clean off the one on the Flachette Rifle as noticed by LatwPIAT Side-section! A Soulburner is the local raygun that destroys everything with a thuderclap of air filling the vacuum left by the shot path. It's also essentially a mythical artifact. quote:The Soul Burner is a myth. Every sighting of the weapon is passed from generation to generation, increasing its legend. Oh yeah, big gun boom is an event worthy of legends, but ACABot Rampage isn't, cool. According to best estimates, there have been three Marauders carrying the Soulburner, one of the Gusev. Why “the” and not “a”? Well, the Chroniclers don't know if it's a unique artifact or if multiple copies exist. And then you pry a miniaturized, head-mounted version off a corpse of Picton in Black Atlantic The rules section only says that Soul Burners are biometrically encoded. Variant: the Guardian The type of Marauder who is interested in patronizing a people he considers his offspring or something. pre:PROFILE: THE GUARDIAN INITIATIVE: 8D / 6 Ego Points SPECIALTY: Ambrosia 16, CHA+Etiquette 10D, INT+Engineering 14D, INT+Science 16D ATTACK: Flechette rifle, 11D, range (30/80), damage 13, smooth-running (1 T), salvos (5); fist, 7D, range 1m, damage 8, smooth-running (2 T) DEFENSE: Passive 1 Melee active (Dodge), Brawl 7D Ranged combat active (crouched walk), Mobility 12D Mental 8D (does not lose consciousness at 0 Ego Points but goes mad and attacks savagely) MOVEMENT: 12D ARMOR: AMSUMO casing, Armor 8, Massive (10) CONDITION: 32 (Trauma: 9) This one is actually dangerous at range and has a decent supply of Ambrosia, and he's going to need it, as Armor 8 without Bulletproof is something that can go very bad when Hellvetics get involved. The Guardian is a ranged beast, so your best bet would be to stab him to gently caress since he's a lot less scary upclose. And if you win, you can bully a Scrapper into modifying the Flechette Rifle to take ammo that's not extinct. Variant: The Divine A Marauder who got so high on his own supply to declare himself a god. The fluff implies that he'd probably have followers, but rules are mum on that. pre:INITIATIVE: 10D / 3 Ego Points SPECIALTY: Ambrosia 12, PSY+Domination 15D ATTACK: Soul burner, 9D, range (50/200), damage 16, biometrically encoded, terrifying (4), Fatal Horn, 10D, range 1, damage 11 DEFENSE: Passive 1 Melee active: The Divine never defends himself Ranged combat active: no active defense Mental 15D (does not lose consciousness at 0 Ego Points but goes mad and attacks savagely) MOVEMENT: 14D ARMOR: Graph combat suit, Armor 7, bulletproof (10), sealed (+2S) CONDITION: 28 (Trauma: 6) Boss Monsters reexamined All in all, what can I say about this section? It's trash, it's what it is. I've said it a bunch of times, but declaring these guys to be stuff campaigns are built around and then giving no named examples is awful (and goes against the luff). For a GM, a more useful thing would be to at least have 3 variants of normal human enemies and guidance on how to modify them according to the player group level. As it stands, you have to improvise until you hit the endboss, so great, this section is useful for a single session of your adventure. Next time: Homie Degenerate
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Jun 1, 2021 18:27
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Night10194 posted:MGR will forever be memorable to me for being one of the few times a villain has given the 'not so different' speech and gotten 'You know what, yeah. We're not' and had immediate cause to regret this. Yeah, I about died laughing at the Monsoon fight when Raiden effectively goes “Yes, you’re right, I secretly only live to kill people. Hey, you’re people, aren’t you?...”. Barudak posted:I can't stop thinking about the phrase "quit his job to become a wizard". Like one day an employee calls me up early and is like "sorry boss, this is my notice. I've decided to become a wizard" Oh good timing, speaking of people realizing their darker nature...
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Jun 1, 2021 18:50
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So is Degenerate based off R Scott Bakker? The memes thing reminds me a lot of his eugenics mind control cult (which was played for horror) and they share a lot of copious creepy sex poo poo. I do get the idea of stuff like memetics has its roots in Dune as well, so...
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Jun 1, 2021 19:26
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I was hopeful the Mechanicus quote would be the "Error: drat not found" one, but you got a good one there too. I've burnt out on Degenesis commentary and have nothing to add any more, aside from multiple throwaway accounts offering me dirt on the community (none of the writers) because I posted criticism elsewhere too. So that's evidently telling that poo poo is still happening. Marauders are a disappointment. I'm so tired of Marko's direction. Set the rest of the artists free to work on something else as concept artists.
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Jun 1, 2021 19:27
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:So is Degenerate based off R Scott Bakker? The memes thing reminds me a lot of his eugenics mind control cult (which was played for horror) and they share a lot of copious creepy sex poo poo.
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Jun 1, 2021 19:35
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Also, it actually fits in Dune, since a major setting theme is that, sure, there are lasers and spaceships, but all the real scary advanced technology is in the form of people - training and enlightenment and genetic modification and eugenics and such. Lasers are useless because of shields, so space empires are won and lost in literal knife fights. The spaceships don't fly unless there's a guy blitzed out of his mind predicting the future at the controls, and the primary conflict is about getting that guy the magical space heroin he needs to do that. Degenesis's only theme is that everything is miserable and pointless.
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Jun 1, 2021 21:18
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megane posted:Degenesis's only theme is that everything is miserable and pointless. Yes, this is really an issue with DeGenesis, a lot of LotFP modules and the worst WHF/40K writing, the point of it all is the misery. Problem is misery and despair is draining as anyone who had a very low point in their life can attest to. Having no moment of levity or point where the players can engage positive change gives no relief or chance to 'recharge' from the exhausting effects of a very bleak setting that playing becomes an absolute chore.
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Jun 1, 2021 21:41
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Yeeaaaah, I stopped finding grimdark interesting a long time ago. I still like 40k, but more as military sci-fi than "In the grim darkness of the dark grimness there is only grimdark". Also why I kinda dislike the basic conceit of Shadowrun, or the Cyberpunk genre to an extent, with "Everything is poo poo and you can't do anything about it". gently caress that poo poo honestly, that's just tiring. One reason I enjoy Age of Sigmar, there is a undercurrent of hope and heroism in there. There is a feeling of striking back at the darkness everywhere instead of just revelling in it.
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Jun 1, 2021 21:48
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Cooked Auto posted:Also why I kinda dislike the basic conceit of Shadowrun, or the Cyberpunk genre to an extent, with "Everything is poo poo and you can't do anything about it". gently caress that poo poo honestly, that's just tiring. ... which is why the stuff worthy of the name doesn't say that and instead says "everything is going to poo poo, but you can fight back against it". You might not be able to stop it on your own, but you can slow it down and make a better world for people around you. For a triple of good, recent, and goon-made, see Hard Wired Island for doing the genre right. I've probably got others in my collection at home if I remember to look.
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Jun 1, 2021 21:53
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Cooked Auto posted:One reason I enjoy Age of Sigmar, there is a undercurrent of hope and heroism in there. There is a feeling of striking back at the darkness everywhere instead of just revelling in it. Would definitely agree with that. It's the first time I've looked at a Warhammer setting and actually gotten hyped about doing stuff in it. When that Death sourcebook comes out it could be a lot of fun running a Soulbound campaign about protecting a new afterlife from Nagash's skele-nazis and Sigmar's weird cult-abduction schemes. I hope they continue the trend of pointing out that lots of factions have some people that are actually chill, I'd love to see cities with a higher ratio of wacky monster people you can take quests from.
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Jun 1, 2021 22:05
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Barudak posted:I can't stop thinking about the phrase "quit his job to become a wizard". Like one day an employee calls me up early and is like "sorry boss, this is my notice. I've decided to become a wizard" This is the explicit life path for a 5e D&D wizard. Your background is your old life before you decided to leave it all behind and go to fireball college. Why any wizard would actually want to go adventuring is a separate issue. Maybe they opted for field work over a thesis?
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Jun 1, 2021 22:11
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avoraciopoctules posted:Would definitely agree with that. It's the first time I've looked at a Warhammer setting and actually gotten hyped about doing stuff in it. When that Death sourcebook comes out it could be a lot of fun running a Soulbound campaign about protecting a new afterlife from Nagash's skele-nazis and Sigmar's weird cult-abduction schemes. I hope they continue the trend of pointing out that lots of factions have some people that are actually chill, I'd love to see cities with a higher ratio of wacky monster people you can take quests from. Most of the big Free Cities will let near anyone inside, Ogor, and Orruk bodyguards and mercenaries, Gargants carrying a merchants supplies. Those things are noted to be present in Azyrhiem the capital of Sigmar's empire that allows no Chaos forces in. For a Soulbound game I actually created a custom Free City Balehold a Chamonite City that was not really a City of Sigmar, cause they proclaimed themselves a truly free city, and would let anyone even Chaos worshipers inside. As a result it was more a hive of scum and villainy style city. (Also it was underground and heavily controlled by Darkling Covens.)
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Jun 1, 2021 22:16
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SkyeAuroline posted:... which is why the stuff worthy of the name doesn't say that and instead says "everything is going to poo poo, but you can fight back against it". You might not be able to stop it on your own, but you can slow it down and make a better world for people around you. I'm pretty sure SR says that as well but the core conceit, from what I know about 4th and 5th edition, is more that everything is downtrodden and all you can do is cling to your profession as a runner to survive. Thankfully neither of the SR campaigns I've played has been like that grim like the books obviously wants it to be. Which is why I still like the setting because the grimness never got drilled into me. Pvt.Scott posted:This is the explicit life path for a 5e D&D wizard. Your background is your old life before you decided to leave it all behind and go to fireball college. Why any wizard would actually want to go adventuring is a separate issue. Maybe they opted for field work over a thesis? I played mine like Lara Croft but with magic instead of guns. Or that was at least the basic concept, the execution itself ended up sorta mixed. avoraciopoctules posted:I'd love to see cities with a higher ratio of wacky monster people you can take quests from. AoS feels like a setting where you can just throw in monster people settlements and they'd fit just fine. Granted, probably not something you'll see in official material but something you can do on your own. Especially if you're in Ghur or such. Something like the races from FF14 doesn't feel out of place with the setting. And then you can just say the Chaos Beastmen are their dark mirrors, the kind that threw their lot in with the chaos gods to survive during the age of chaos.
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Jun 1, 2021 22:24
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