|
I imagine it wears on people facing the same deck over and over with over a quarter of games being against that deck and it having disgusting turns you can hardly interact with, even if you fill your deck with counters which you have to if you want a viable deck right now. That and there is probably a lot of frustration that the Taliyah/Malphite buffs were the lightest of light touches that might bump their winrates in decks by less then a percent without addressing their issue that landmarks take too much board space and mana. Was a long awaited balance patch and it changed 4 cards with a bugfix that makes irelia stronger, probably fell flat for what people were expecting when they would change a giant roster of cards to bring the weaker cards up to par and give people a reason to make new decks in a "solved" meta. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jun 1, 2021 |
# ? Jun 1, 2021 22:31 |
|
|
# ? Apr 26, 2024 04:39 |
|
Awesome! posted:bbg is playing runeterra right now Like he says here, he wasn't prepared for it to be this bad and needs time to find a new game. https://m.twitch.tv/clip/BlatantObliqueLatteKAPOW-nvpboT0i7dFaj2r1
|
# ? Jun 1, 2021 22:58 |
|
The pace of online CCGs is mindblowing. Like, it's been a month. I remember playing in solved metas for old paper ccgs (and finding new angles) after a year, but it was so many fewer players and each player playing so many more games (and angle shooting mattering less in the hundreds of games you play on a online CCG ladder than a 10-20 game tournament) that it acts as a tremendous multiplayer, especially for toxic parts of an environment or, even more, toxic parts of a playerbase.
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 00:35 |
|
The abrupt change from really aggressive balance patches to really conservative ones has been grinding on the community for a while and folks have finally had enough of it I guess.
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 04:09 |
|
MTG has had much more degenerate metas, but at least they would give you the opportunity to board in hate against whatever decks were dominating the field. Ranked being a BO1 format with no board mechanics just encourages jamming meta decks with plus matchups vs as much of the field as possible.
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 12:02 |
|
Wollawolla posted:MTG has had much more degenerate metas, but at least they would give you the opportunity to board in hate against whatever decks were dominating the field. Ranked being a BO1 format with no board mechanics just encourages jamming meta decks with plus matchups vs as much of the field as possible. I think things are a bit of an over reaction but side boards def should be a thing in this game. They have tons of cards that would be amazing in sideboards as counters as well.
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 13:21 |
|
Side boards are the ONLY thing I miss about MTG, but boy do I miss them.
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 17:05 |
|
I don't really get the point of giving Taliyah +1/+1. If you gave her +2/+2 she still wouldn't see additional play. Stats are not particularly valuable in LoR outside of some very specific cases. If Taliyah becomes viable at some point with her current keywords and text it will be due to duping landmarks. I don't really get why they didn't buff Taliyah to have some of her leveled up ability before leveling up and/or reduce her cost to 3/4. The other Taliyah problem is you need landmarks out for her to be useful when leveled and that kinda works against what you're trying to do with her with the current playable landmarks. It'd make more sense to require landmarks to have the ability before leveling and then when she levels she always has the 3 knives or w/e they are. Especially at 5 mana. I'm not convinced even this would make her a t0/t1 deck, but at least then she'd be a powerful card. Malphite I can't comment on because landmarks are bad so he will be bad. Any remotely playable landmark gets nerfed out of existence. 10 or 12 is irrelevant because there's no reasonable combination of a,b,c cost landmarks that add up to 10 or 12. I'm pretty disappointed they never walked back the veiled temple nerf. It really killed the card. They could have nerfed the mana acceleration instead. I sort of feel the same way about the grand plaza. They should really iterate on these cards a bit and admit that the nerfs were too heavy handed. Zilean needs a redesign to save him. No Wave posted:It feels like people enjoy talking about balance patches than actually playing the game... myself included. I think it's a bit concerning for the health of the game long-term tbh, there's something about the game that makes people take balance issues incredibly seriously instead of just trying to have fun through it. I don't feel like the two metas that have came after have been particularly healthy in comparison. Yeah you can play lots more random decks that amount to closing your eyes and flipping a coin to determine the outcome, but is that what makes a meta good in a CCG? but uh I always like super high powered metagames, and I am not bothered by facing the same deck a thousand times provided it's a skill-testing matchup. In fact, riot's playrate criteria makes no sense to me. As the game gets more cards there will be decks without too many bad matchups that people decide to play. A 10%, 20%, or even 30% play rate isn't an indication of a problem. It's how the deck warps a meta around it that matters. For example, if ez+draven were 30% of the meta tomorrow at 51%-52% wr because everyone decided to play it you'd have to be crazy to think it deserved a nerf or was a problematic deck. This isn't to defend irelia+azir. I wish they'd have gone with a more direct nerf than making two cards that could have conceivably seen play elsewhere at some point useless outside of the archetype. At the same time, I'm not sure how much nerfing irelia+azir fixes the current meta given the current meta is largely the previous but with irelia+azir. I kinda don't get what people are expecting for a metagame given metas I'd consider good are hated on and metas I consider bad are also hated on and metas I'd consider okay (like tf go hard which was an okay meta) are hated on too. Constructed formats in CCGs always become about the same few best decks over and over, and that seems like something LoR players are not willing to accept. LoR is even way better about it than most games. There are a ridiculous number of viable t2/t3 archetypes compared to any other game I've played. Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jun 2, 2021 |
# ? Jun 2, 2021 17:11 |
|
Whitenoise Poster posted:Like he says here, he wasn't prepared for it to be this bad and needs time to find a new game. They both quit around when they added underlords. Which was the single worst change I've ever seen in my 20+ years of online gaming. It took a pretty good game and stomped all over everything that made it good. And valve refused to walk it back which is even funnier. Swim might have ducked out during the leadup to underlords because there was a stale meta for months and months. The funny thing is after the underlords release the game had less players. Everyone was waiting for the patch to shake up the game and reveal the next big thing. The reason we had no updates. And it was just an awful patch. Pretty much all the underlords streamers went to TFT or LoR. The few who didn't went back to other genres. breaks posted:The abrupt change from really aggressive balance patches to really conservative ones has been grinding on the community for a while and folks have finally had enough of it I guess. Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 2, 2021 |
# ? Jun 2, 2021 18:22 |
|
The problem right now is you either get rushed down by azir/irelia with a giant sparring student or duo, or aggro decks that try to rush faster then it, atrocity from a 20/20 nasus, or if you try and play any kind of control you just lose to someone attacking with a watcher and his many clones after turn 8.
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 18:38 |
|
Ra Ra Rasputin posted:The problem right now is you either get rushed down by azir/irelia with a giant sparring student or duo, or aggro decks that try to rush faster then it, atrocity from a 20/20 nasus, or if you try and play any kind of control you just lose to someone attacking with a watcher and his many clones after turn 8. I fully agree that the current meta isn't good. Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jun 2, 2021 |
# ? Jun 2, 2021 18:50 |
|
Khorne posted:TLC is control though. If you want to play control you are playing TLC in this meta. Yeah that's what I'm saying though, TLC makes all other slow decks obsolete because the watcher just automatically wins against them, it should probably just delete your hand on attack or be harder to clone easily then being 0 mana.
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 18:57 |
|
As tedious as Aphelios could be I rather enjoyed the many ways you could build decks pre Shurima. TF/Fizz was pretty drat strong and I really hated the Lee Sin deck's inevitability but I felt like I could get away with TK/Soraka a lot more. Though right now Noxus seems pretty rare so there's a hell of a lot less scorched earth. I feel totally helpless as TK/Soraka into a control Noxus deck Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Yeah that's what I'm saying though, TLC makes all other slow decks obsolete because the watcher just automatically wins against them, it should probably just delete your hand on attack or be harder to clone easily then being 0 mana. Funnily enough I found the iterations of Deep that ran the treasure burst spell + the deep treasure spawning follower faired decently against the Watcher combo. It was pretty goddamn funny milling a Watcher deck and filling my deck with treasures or dropping naut just to replenish the deck. I broke a TLC player with a fancy board and fancy emotes by milling him to death with Mao and he stopped emoting and roped until the game surrendered for him
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 19:05 |
|
Taliyah's updated labs deck seems worse than the old one. Amazing!
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 20:14 |
|
wologar posted:Taliyah's updated labs deck seems worse than the old one. Amazing! Aspiring Chronomancer in particular makes no sense to remove. It's such a versatile card that even supports the landmark gameplan. Exhaust is very good vs the AI independent of your strategy. Salt Spire is underpowered but in the early rounds you had to crutch on it with the old list. It also made Taliyah not a total dead draw because you could setup play salt spire -> copy it next turn plays. WIthout Salt Spire I'm not even sure you ever want to play Taliyah. Khorne fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jun 2, 2021 |
# ? Jun 2, 2021 20:21 |
|
Ugh. I haven't played since the last release. Was hoping this patch would be a direction changer. Do I... Do I go back to Hearthstone?!
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 23:43 |
|
I'm still holding out hope that the last 1/3 of the set will fix the meta (and fix Taliyah/Zilean/Malphite). Until then, I'm only logging in once or twice a week to finish some daily quests in single player labs.
|
# ? Jun 2, 2021 23:58 |
|
No Wave posted:It feels like people enjoy talking about balance patches than actually playing the game... myself included. I think it's a bit concerning for the health of the game long-term tbh, there's something about the game that makes people take balance issues incredibly seriously instead of just trying to have fun through it. Card games have always had this. It's an ostensibly skill based game with a lot of variance in there. Runeterras variance is less mana screw/flood and more just straight up decks being terrible against other decks so to me this creates a lot more angry people when the deck building aspect of the game is immediately destroyed by the majority of the games you will play. Add in the fact that it's entirely digital and you have people a lot less willing to forgive balance screw ups.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 00:18 |
|
fireraiser posted:I'm still holding out hope that the last 1/3 of the set will fix the meta (and fix Taliyah/Zilean/Malphite). In other news, I noticed you get infinite rerolls for your starting power in Lab of Legends now
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 00:38 |
|
I'm surprised at how much doomsaying there is about this patch, there hasn't even been time to see if azirelia is still problematic, people just went straight to crying and claiming they are quitting. I mean I played hearthstone where druid combo was dominant for like a year, and in general broken cards stayed broken for a loooong time. So this response feels pretty whiny to me.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 00:38 |
|
if people aren't having fun they're not obligated to keep playing just because you personally haven't noticed it yet
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 01:00 |
|
But they don't know that this isn't a fun meta because it has only existed for a couple hours, is what I'm saying
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 01:20 |
|
people can in fact use their brains to get a general idea of how much or how little card changes will affect decks they're familiar with playing, even without playing with the adjusted cards themselves and they can use that information to predict whether they will enjoy playing in the "it's still all about aziralia but it's got like a 2% lower aggregate winrate" meta
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 01:26 |
|
fireraiser posted:Until then, I'm only logging in once or twice a week to finish some daily quests in single player labs. I play exactly enough to get me to vault level 10 and that sweet sweet champion wild
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 01:28 |
|
Magic Underwear posted:But they don't know that this isn't a fun meta because it has only existed for a couple hours, is what I'm saying What about two units being up costed by 1 makes you think that azir isn't still going to be meta warping?
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 01:38 |
|
Sedisp posted:What about two units being up costed by 1 makes you think that azir isn't still going to be meta warping? I don't know, that's why I'm not rushing to judge it either way yet.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 01:48 |
|
Holy poo poo the Fizz deck in lab seems utterly loving useless. I've lost to Wraiths/Thresh three times in a row and I have zero idea what passive to aim for at the start to make this deck do anything. Sure you have some elusives but everything has about the worst possible stat lines for their cost. Also what an amazingly garbage patch. I dunno if the right cards get nerfed for Azir/Irelia and nothing else got touched. Let alone zero buffs to alternate decks, incredible. Edit: At least some of the new Lab powers seem interesting or viable. Canopus250 fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jun 3, 2021 |
# ? Jun 3, 2021 01:53 |
|
I'm running into functioning Azir/Irelia decks in expeditions for fucks sake. I can't get away from this poo poo. And I win against them probably an "appropriate" amount but a lot of times I play as well as I possibly can and they just win on turn 4 or 5 because they drew well and that's it.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 02:02 |
|
The Taliya labs deck change is meant to make it so you force the new landmark passive every single time as your first pick. I don't really like that that design, but it at least kind of explains what they were aiming for with the baffling at first glance changes. Magic Underwear posted:But they don't know that this isn't a fun meta because it has only existed for a couple hours, is what I'm saying Magic Underwear posted:I'm surprised at how much doomsaying there is about this patch, there hasn't even been time to see if azirelia is still problematic, people just went straight to crying and claiming they are quitting. I mean I played hearthstone where druid combo was dominant for like a year, and in general broken cards stayed broken for a loooong time. So this response feels pretty whiny to me. The complaints are more that they didn't address the meta at all and that they didn't buff random cards. Lots of people in the community, not necessarily me I liked go hard & tf+fizz & zoe+aph because I am a degenerate, think the game has had meta issues for the past 6 months or so due to the infrequent balance changes. I do think that people are missing that as the game gets more developed and the skill level increases at the top that metas will settle way faster. It's not going to be like when the game was new and it was the wild west. A lot of LoR players want massive meta shifts every 2 weeks. Which I'm not opposed to. Also, I think the nasus meta just isn't good and wasn't good even before irelia+azir. I've been personally waiting for the entire expansion to drop to start grinding ladder again. If they released it all at once there would have likely been fewer problems. It seems like instead of balance changes they're trying to just release 1/3 of a set every few weeks instead to save effort and monetize through passes. It's unlikely it is even the actual development team who wanted this format, but I don't think anyone has said outright that it was a business rather than game decision. I don't think people are actually quitting yet. I do think Riot might turn things around. Riot does listen to their players unlike many other studios. Plus, lab of legends is wildly popular and they seem to be working on some big update possibly involving 2v2 or something not-yet announced. Pilchenstein posted:In other news, I noticed you get infinite rerolls for your starting power in Lab of Legends now Khorne fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jun 3, 2021 |
# ? Jun 3, 2021 02:16 |
|
The animation speedup is a good part of the patch. For irelia/azir decks give it a little time for people to replace Marshal with Voice of the risen which does the exact same thing for -2 mana and -1/2 stats but it's permanent instead of summoned, it's rare for them not to level up by turn 4 or 5 anyway.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 02:56 |
|
Canopus250 posted:Holy poo poo the Fizz deck in lab seems utterly loving useless. I've lost to Wraiths/Thresh three times in a row and I have zero idea what passive to aim for at the start to make this deck do anything. Sure you have some elusives but everything has about the worst possible stat lines for their cost.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 03:45 |
|
just had a really fun malphite deck lose to guard bots =( and i didnt even lose to guard bots so much as i lost to shrooms from foundry doing 21 dmg to me. i had a super fun lissandra deck where my land marks trigger twice when they finish counting down and then later i got zz rot portal on the thralls. which btw is reverse synergy. it makes it so every single thing you do that summons a thrall summons two you never have enough space to trigger one let alone two. you need the ai to cooperate with you and murder your 2/2s and stuff so you can proc them. i had lissandra summon 2 on turn 2 then my othe rlandmark proced and summoned me two 2/2's on turn 4 i layed down the break them early guy obliting the two he summons due to space then blocking with my 2/2s and slamming pass so that i could get the proc off on turn 6 end. then i layed watcher on turn 7 and attacked with it to kill viktor while i had 1 hp the entire time. im so lucky he didnt draw any burn. malphite summon a random landmark on turn 1 with agro mulligans into chip is how i play his deck. just not sure who i should be rerolling to pair with him since he isnt a von yip deck. i dont like the new lab quests though i think they should be sped up. 200 cards is a gently caress ton of labs even if you do a fizz von yip zoe run where you lay down 6 1 drops every game. snergle fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jun 3, 2021 |
# ? Jun 3, 2021 05:01 |
|
My general experience with foundry is that you barely ever actually lose to it, but it does do a lot of damage to you on the way out if your deck struggles to close. Which can then put you in a bad situation against guard bots' constant pressure.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 05:08 |
|
Magic Underwear posted:I don't know, that's why I'm not rushing to judge it either way yet. There is nothing that changed the ultimate problem with the archetype which is being able to generate an attack at focus speed. The mana curve is slightly higher and that's pretty much it.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 05:40 |
|
PR Bullshit "we're listening" post is now out. Balance is scheduled for 2.11 which is like 2 patches away so... Yay 2 months from now?
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 05:56 |
|
Oh, Lab has more updates? Nice. Did they at least add more rerolls or choices to compensate for the even more choices, though? EDIT: Oh poo poo, free first power rerolls, that solves like 50% of my issues with RNG.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 06:47 |
|
Kris xK posted:PR Bullshit "we're listening" post is now out.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 17:20 |
|
sounds like they are spread a little thin and need some more devs. everyone make sure to buy those yasuo skins
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 18:28 |
|
I think calling it pr bullshit is a little harsh, they’ve been pretty good about doing what they say they’ll do. I’m sure it takes some time to change course as far as the scope of the adjustments they want to make in these patches. A bit late but hopefully it’ll liven things up.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 19:22 |
|
|
# ? Apr 26, 2024 04:39 |
|
Pilchenstein posted:I had to go do something else before I finished but my first run with him I was just wrecking poo poo with spell mana every turn & Jinx as my second champ. I think my other powers were the von Yipp one and every unit gets a random keyword. I left it just before guard bots and I don't think I'd used any rerolls (beyond the free ones at the start to look at the new passives ). If you want an easy time on him I'd probably start with von Yipp and grab anything that gives you more 1 drops. A von Yipp Fizz deck that aims for 1 drops is indeed an easy win. By the end Fizz himself was like a 9/7 1 drop with Scout. snergle posted:just had a really fun malphite deck lose to guard bots =( and i didnt even lose to guard bots so much as i lost to shrooms from foundry doing 21 dmg to me. The best Malphite mulligan is probably the one that make you start with a Sleeping Rockbear or whatever it's called. Really though thing main the you want is just the any free landmark at all because Chip is literally the only good card in the deck. It just happens to be the case that a Sleeping Rockbear is a better landmark than any of the ones in the Malphite deck. Like a lot of these bad decks, your goal should be to get a good 2nd champ to rely on and maybe buff up the Chips where possible. That said, I think Yasuo actually works pretty well in the deck? It has a lot of stuns for him to advantage of. For Lissandra I went for "+1/+1 on surviving a hit" since she has armor and the all-targeting ping spell, but I don't know how meaning that actually is, in the end.
|
# ? Jun 3, 2021 19:51 |