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By reball do you mean cutting up and balling after the bulk ferment? Or are you balling, fermenting and then balling again? If it's the latter that might be why it's compact. In other news, this has really helped my launch: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0881QHK5Y There's a load of these under different chinese brand names, they all appear to come from the same place and are a knock off of the gi metal perforated peels. The anodizing is good, the peel has a nice sharp edge, and the slots are free of burrs. It's way easier to launch smoothly with this compared to the plain aluminium peel I was using before and I'm not leaving as much semolina on the stone to burn.
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Jun 1, 2021 13:23
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I have tried numerous combinations of bulk-fermentation, proofing, balling and re-balling. What I ended up doing lately was roughly like this: Short 15 minute autolysis phases during machine kneading of the dough until smooth (I get a nice window pane) -> 1-2h on the counter bulk fermentation -> cutting/balling and 24-48h fridge fermentation -> re-balling in the morning on bake-day -> taking the balls out ~2h before baking My recipe is 64% water, 3% salt and 0.2% fresh yeast. Pizzapp seems to suggest 0.35% yeast, maybe I use too little? My understanding is that the ideal way to do it is not re-balling the dough at all once it went into the fridge. The problem I saw with this is that I get a very flat Pizzas, as if the dough was overproofed. This is why I re-ball to give it more elasticity. StarkingBarfish posted:In other news, this has really helped my launch: I wanted to buy a separate turning peel and bought one which looks very similar, probably the same chinese manufacturer: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B08P7829WL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s01?currency=EUR&ie=UTF8&language=en_GB&psc=1 I think it's a bit too expensive but overall the quality is good. It's also a bit long but by leaving out the middle segment I get it down to 81cm/32in which is okay for home use. For launching I still use my old wooden peel which is quite charred already from the high temperatures. I was looking for a metal one so I will take a look at yours. Lidl sold one a few weeks ago for 10€ but I was too slow...
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Jun 1, 2021 19:40
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I had similar problems: Flat, wet dough that didn't puff up much when baking. I also tried reballing it and leaving it at room temp for about 3h before baking and it... kinda marginally helped but more in terms of shape than anything else. I later found it was just old yeast. Pizzapp's yeast amounts should be ~ about right but I generally measure by eye as I don't have a scale accurate to less than a gram or two. Generally I find a teaspoon of ADY or a little more of IDY works for a 'fast' batch which for me means overnight cold poolish and 6h warm ferment once fully incorporated. For batches that I cold ferment for 24-48h I use half that.
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Jun 1, 2021 20:08
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I don't have any direct experience with ADY/IDY, but I can give you my schedule for how we make the sourdough pizza dough and what the thoughts are. First thing, checking your dough temp is key to really helping dial in your doughs fermentation. As it gets into warmer weather, we have to ice our water down to maintain a final dough temp of about 72F. This means we start with about a 68F water, and over the mixing time we know we gain about 4-5 degrees. We have a spiral arm mixer, which mixes only one part of the dough at a time versus a bowl mixer that kneads the entire mass at once. Bowl mixers tend to add a lot of heat in their mixing process, so starting with cooler water should help. We do a flour/water/sourdough mix that we autolyse for 30 minutes. The final mix is about 10 minutes in our mixer, and we add salt and a very very small amount of olive oil to the mix about 3 minutes in. Once it's out of the mixer we tighten the dough mass like a giant ball, tightening the skin and putting it into a bin for bulk proofing. We do a 4 hour room temperature bulk proof, this allows for a solid initial fermentation growth. After 4 hours we ball out the dough into the final pizza balls. These sit out during the balling process, so by the end we've let the balls sit out at room temp for ~30 mins. After we finish balling everything goes into the walk-in, where we do our final proofing for 48hrs minimum. Once they're ready, our doughs last about 3 days before gassing out. Once we're ready for service, we pull out a couple dough trays to start the day and let them warm for 3 hours before we open. Throughout the day we will pull more dough trays out as needed to let them warm for that time. They'll get better the longer they sit out, usually hitting a nice peak about 6 hours in. This is all based on my sourdough, so some things may vary but the general idea of timing and dough temperature should be helpful if you're not already doing it!
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Jun 1, 2021 22:05
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ogopogo posted:Process This is super useful- sourdough aside it lines up pretty well with my own method, where I'm using an orbital stand mixer and the dough does warm up a lot during kneading. I counter this by using poolish straight from the fridge (50% of the total flour) and incorporating cold tap water. I bulk ferment after kneading for only 1h, warm ferment for 3h then fridge with 3h warmup before baking, or 6h warm ferment if I'm using today. I'll take some temp measurements later as I've a batch to prep.
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Jun 2, 2021 10:09
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StarkingBarfish posted:I later found it was just old yeast. I use fresh yeast for my Pizzas but I do use organic yeast which according to one source loses strength before the best before date. I will try switching back to non-organic fresh yeast and see if it fixes things. StarkingBarfish posted:I generally measure by eye as I don't have a scale accurate to less than a gram or two. Btw I bought this guy here like half a year ago: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Digital-digital-display-tablets-jewellery/dp/B07J9VXYSD/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=Reteck&qid=1622638238&sr=8-5 and it's great value for the price. I don't only use it for yeast but also for some spices and I wouldn't want to miss it again. ogopogo posted:Process This is actually a great writeup, thanks a lot for that! What kind of sourdough starter do you use, normal American wheat sourdough? I do have an Italian Lievito Madre which is wheat based and very dry (70:30 flour to water ratio). I made it for bread baking but I don't use it very often as I'm culturally a rye sourdough enjoyer. I wanted to try making Pizza with it anyway so I might just give it a shot. What's your sourdough flour ratio? I wonder if the 4 hour bulk proof is still necessary when using industrial yeast as compared to sourdough. In my experience sourdoughs need more time to "get going" and also stricter sticking to the temperature. But anyway if I get this correctly you are proofing for 48h+ hours and leave the dough out 3-6h before baking and you never reshape it during that time? Also "Once they're ready, our doughs last about 3 days before gassing out" does this include the 48h proofing or do you consider the dough "ready" once the 48h proofing has passed? Oh, and what temperature is in your walk-in? My fridge sits at 6°C/43°F which is probably warmer than the typical American fridge. Was also thinking if this is too warm for the dough...
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Jun 2, 2021 14:29
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Malefitz posted:I use fresh yeast for my Pizzas but I do use organic yeast which according to one source loses strength before the best before date. I will try switching back to non-organic fresh yeast and see if it fixes things. Our sourdough is a family sourdough that originated in the Yukon Territories during the Klondike Gold Rush during the late 1800s, passed down from my grandpa's side for 4 generations. We estimate it to be about 120-125 years old at this point, still going strong! I do a flour/water/sourdough 2:2:1 ratio with my feeds. The flour is usually a mix of 00 flour and a wheat flour, sometimes rye, sometimes barley. We like to vary up the type of wheat flours to keep the sourdough feeding on new and different yeasts/bacterias that come through in the grain. We typically let our doughs ferment for 48 hours before use, and from there they can last for about 3 days. If we need to use dough earlier, even after 24 hours they have proofed enough in the walk in to make good pizza. Our walk in sits at 39-41F per health department guidelines 
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Jun 2, 2021 17:15
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ogopogo posted:Our sourdough is a family sourdough that originated in the Yukon Territories during the Klondike Gold Rush during the late 1800s, passed down from my grandpa's side for 4 generations. We estimate it to be about 120-125 years old at this point, still going strong! Wow what a cool story, makes me wonder if future generations will also tell the story how they use a sourdough that was made by some great-granddad (me) during the Great Covid Pizza and Bread Rush. I saw that Pizzapp does have a setting for dry Lievito Madre so I can just use that for calculating how much of my sourdough would be needed. Also I will try resisting the urge to re-ball and just leave it be the way you have described. Will report back with results once I had a chance to try this!
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Jun 2, 2021 17:42
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OK, this turned more into a detailed description of my process in general rather than just temp measurements. This isn't to say what I'm doing here is right, and I'd welcome critique. It's also an aide-memoire for myself since the last few pizzas I've made with this method have been really good by my standards so it's nice to have it written down somewhere. General: I think I've gotten the hang of using a kitchenaid. This is a 5qt mixer. Some tips for people trying to make pizza dough: - the maximum mass (water + flour) you can realistically mix in this is a little over 1kg, or about 4 doughballs. I've tried six before and while it works, you'll spend a lot of time babysitting it and pushing the dough back off the top of the hook to stop it climbing over the hook disc and into the mounting machinery. It sucks when this happens so I stick to batches of 4 balls. - the generic online recipes I've seen say use settings 1 or 2 to knead. This is BS, the dough just climbs the hook and sits there doing nothing unless you're working with a really high hydration. Setting 4 is fast enough at 64% hydration to slap the dough off the bowl walls and encourage gluten formation. You won't burn out the motor doing this as the airflow to the motor is better at higher speeds. I find the mixer runs cooler at higher speeds than lower. It does want to wander around the countertop though, so put a damp rag under the mixer to keep it still. - using poolish means you don't get sloshing as the ingredients are thick enough starting out. There's a risk of this happening if you're going direct without a starter. Mix briefly with a fork or something if you're going that route. I add flour slowly to the poolish with the mixer on. If you're doing this a splashguard is advisable as it does sometimes throw flour out the side if a clump falls in. Now onto the recipe, for 4 balls. Room temperature here is 18C (normally, but today started at 20C, see later) and final ball size is 270g. I'm using Caputo 00 pizzeria: - Afternoon before: Make poolish of 300g flour, 300g room temp water, and ~3g of IDY / 4g of ADY. Just mix these with a fork until incorporated and no more. Leave covered for 1h at room temp, then put into the fridge overnight at 5C. 16-24h is about right for this. - Next day, about 7-8h before use: Poolish should be about 3x its original volume. Add 110g cold tap water to the poolish, dump into stand mixer bowl. At this point the poolish temp was 5.5C. - Turn mixer on to setting 4. Slowly, over the course of 5 minutes, add 330g of flour. At the halfway point (after 115g flour) add 16g salt. After this step, the dough temp has reached 17C through the addition of room temp (20C) flour and the mixing process. - Continue to mix on setting 4 for 5 more minutes. The dough reached 21C at this stage and was a smooth, coherent mass that surrounds the hook. It still slaps the sides but no longer sticks to the bottom. - Turn out the dough, slap and fold / knead for one more minute by hand just until a gluten skin forms. Temperature at this stage is still 21C. - Cover and bulk ferment for 1h. - After 1h, ball. You now have two options: I've split one ball out to use tonight, and will warm ferment it for 6h. I've put the three I'm cold fermenting for later use in a separate proofing tray. - Leave the cold ferment batch to warm ferment for 3h. It's unusually warm today, now 21C, so I shortened this to 2h as they've already grown quite a bit. After this, refrigerate. Allow 3h on day of use to reach room temp and spring a little bit more. (note after writing this, the room temp went up to 24C in the afternoon and so did the ball I left for dinner. It's the hottest day of the year so far here and that's a lot warmer than I've been working with which is typically closer to 18C) - After 5 1/2 hours get your pizza oven up to temp. I've dialed mine in to about 470C. At the 6h mark turn out, shape, top, peel, launch, wait about 60-80s depending on how you like your crust, and enjoy:  Tomato, mozz, gorgonzola, fennel sausage. You can see a few things here: the dough was a bit over-risen due to the warm temps. It had well over doubled in size: Before (left). The ones on the right are destined for the fridge:  After 6h at 21-24C:  If I'd been smart I might have used less yeast (not ideal since the cold ferment batch would suffer) or better still put it somewhere cooler. This meant when turning out it deflated a bit and left wrinkles around the cornicione which became the horizontal lines you see above. The other thing is the lack of leopard spots. That'll be more prominent on the cold ferment ones.
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Jun 2, 2021 20:02
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I don't ever use the hook on my mixer at all, I always use the paddle, I find it works pretty well
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Jun 2, 2021 20:42
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Stefan Prodan posted:I don't ever use the hook on my mixer at all, I always use the paddle, I find it works pretty well Interesting. I was considering using it to incorporate at the earlier stages (mainly hoping to avoid throwing flour / water out of the bowl) but I figured the dough would be too tough for it to do anything with once mixed. I'll add it to the list to try.
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Jun 2, 2021 20:45
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StarkingBarfish posted:Interesting. I was considering using it to incorporate at the earlier stages (mainly hoping to avoid throwing flour / water out of the bowl) but I figured the dough would be too tough for it to do anything with once mixed. I'll add it to the list to try. Yeah I mean I think as long as you're doing the hydration levels you're talking about (I do about 65% as well) it's fine
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Jun 2, 2021 21:32
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white pizza  
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Jun 4, 2021 23:50
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I would eat that very quickly, and every bite would probably be delicious. That looks gorgeous
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Jun 5, 2021 00:06
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Simple is good
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Jun 5, 2021 18:10
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chia posted:Simple is good that looks so drat good
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Jun 5, 2021 20:01
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chia posted:Simple is good phenom
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Jun 5, 2021 20:21
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chia posted:Simple is good Yeah I'm going to have to agree. That looks incredible.
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Jun 5, 2021 20:42
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I have a regular 9x13 nonstick pan that I've made detroit style pizza in before, but it really doesn't get dark or crispy on the bottom, usually I'm desperately hoping the bottom cooks before the top burns. I don't have a pizza steel to set it on (and no idea what that would do to a nonstick pan) but I'm open to any suggestions for helping the bottom cook a bit more? Put it on the bottom rack? I have a large thick aluminum sheet pan I guess I could set it on to try to conduct more heat into it, but not sure if that would just warp or would make good contact at all.
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Jun 5, 2021 21:42
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I've cheated pan pizza before by putting the pan on the hob after cooking if I don't think the base is crispy enough. Worked pretty well. The other thing is to lift the pizza off the pan and shoot a little oil under it to make sure it crisps up well.
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Jun 5, 2021 21:48
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Rescue Toaster posted:I have a regular 9x13 nonstick pan that I've made detroit style pizza in before, but it really doesn't get dark or crispy on the bottom, usually I'm desperately hoping the bottom cooks before the top burns. i don't know what temperature you're cooking it at and so not sure if your pan supports it. but in your case without buying anything else or switching to something like a big pre-heated cast iron skillet, i'd definitely try moving it down in the oven a bit
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Jun 6, 2021 02:44
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First summer pizza. Ham, arugula and burrata on cream and Parmesan:
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Jun 6, 2021 03:39
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Great work on these recent pies pizza pals. Im inspired to make another batch of dough tomorrow
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Jun 6, 2021 03:45
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Asparagus on a pizza, y/n? I have a ton of asparagus in the fridge which I can't justify not cooking but I also want a pizz. What would go best with asparagus here? Bacon I guess? White pizza or regular?
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Jun 6, 2021 16:13
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Asparagus and parma ham, with fresh arugula on top after cooking, is a classic. Works with both red and white pizza.
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Jun 6, 2021 16:23
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I did an asparagus ricotta pizza that was pretty good; garlic oil base, a light sprinkle of mozz/prov, some blobs of ricotta, asparagus hard-seared on one side in some olive oil. Squirt on some juice from a grilled lemon and a touch of chives when it comes out the oven
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Jun 6, 2021 18:02
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You want to parcook the asparagus though unless you like it supercrunchy.
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Jun 6, 2021 21:55
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Asparagus tips go on just fine without any prep.
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Jun 6, 2021 22:03
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Thanks all, yeah I'll definitely grill the asparagus first. Think I might try goat cheese and some kind of fancy ham with it, prob a white pizza. I'll post a pic if it doesn't come out looking like a fleshlight.
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Jun 7, 2021 16:15
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I got my Ooni Koda 16 propane oven finally!! First impressions: It's loving huge. It's also loving hot. I have been doing solely New York style pizza over the past few years in my traditional oven at 500F. The heat of the Ooni, even on the lowest settings, is challenging to handle as it gets the crust very dark, and if you over-top the pizza you will end up with an uncooked middle. This isn't drastically different than my oven experiences, but it feels more pronounced due to the crust getting so dark so quickly. The crust rise and texture was really great, and after a few 8" test pizzas I felt like I was getting the hang of it. You definitely have to rotate the pizza a LOT. I just pulled it and spun it like 45 degrees over and over to get the most even bake. That's kind of annoying, but it cooks so fast it doesn't feel like an ordeal. I also loved the way the top bakes really well, too. Pepperoni were crispy on the edges and curled up nicely, all that good stuff, without having to do any annoying broiler methods. I think that with the right dough stretch and topping amounts, it's going to be good for New York style, but I'm guessing an oven like that is even better for Neapolitan style, right?
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Jun 7, 2021 18:47
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chia posted:Simple is good Can I get your dough recipe on this? Looks perfecto.
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Jun 7, 2021 18:57
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continuing with grillsperiments, my so asked me to make pizza like two hours ago so i rushed a dough out   not the best dough since it had like no fermentation time but i’m pretty impressed at well this bog standard gas grill can work as an oven
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Jun 8, 2021 00:04
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that pizza looks THICC, and delicious.
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Jun 8, 2021 01:41
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LifeSunDeath posted:that pizza looks THICC, and delicious. haha the grill was turned off and i didn’t realize it until i had dressed the pie so it got to sit around for extra proofing while i heated it back up with that said i really dig the appearance and i’m tempted to make it more of a thing lol
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Jun 8, 2021 02:18
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That’s a Pixar mom pizza if I’ve ever seen one.
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Jun 8, 2021 02:56
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mediaphage posted:haha the grill was turned off and i didn’t realize it until i had dressed the pie so it got to sit around for extra proofing while i heated it back up I honestly make those once in a while too. It's basically bread masquerading with a pizza hat and still tastes really good. I'll make extra dough sometimes and throw it in as bread sticks too. Doesn't have the same texture as long cold fermented dough, but fast pizza > no pizza.
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Jun 8, 2021 05:45
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Thanks for the comments everyone  ShaneB posted:Can I get your dough recipe on this? Looks perfecto. Sure! This was a 48 hour Neapolitan dough with about 65% hydration, and this is usually my process: 00 Flour 475 g Water 310 g Salt 14 g Fresh Yeast 5 g (about, makes 4x200g pizzas) Mix fresh yeast with cold water, add the rest of the ingredients, stir with a fork or something in a bowl until a dough starts to form. Knead with hands on a very lightly floured surface for about 10 minutes or until the dough is smooth and not sticky, I usually test at this point if it passes a gluten window test. Transfer the dough back to a bowl, cover with cling film and let rise at room temperature until doubled. I have a pretty cold kitchen so it was about 4 hours this time. Divide and ball up the dough. Try to get them as round and smooth as possible, then place in a floured proofing container (I just use a large enough plastic box with a lid) and into the fridge for two days they go. Take them out of the fridge 2-5 hours (depending on the temperature) before baking, either place on a floured surface and cover with a wet/moist kitchen towel or keep them in the container with the lid on. Shape using your hands, top, and bake in a hot as hell oven I have an Ooni Koda and this one took a little over a minute to bake.I'd use a little less fresh yeast next time. I added a little extra this time since I wasn't sure of how well my yeast would work but it turned out fine.
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Jun 8, 2021 08:17
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Jhet posted:I honestly make those once in a while too. It's basically bread masquerading with a pizza hat and still tastes really good. I'll make extra dough sometimes and throw it in as bread sticks too. Doesn't have the same texture as long cold fermented dough, but fast pizza > no pizza. hard agree in fairness the picture makes it look worse than it is; the part in the middle was normal pizza thickness, just the edge was a couple of inches tall lol.
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Jun 8, 2021 13:54
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chia posted:<dough recipe> Where do you get fresh yeast? Is that like sourdough starter, or is it a specific product you can get at the grocery? Thanks!
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Jun 8, 2021 18:05
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| # ? May 2, 2024 23:53 |
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ShaneB posted:Where do you get fresh yeast? Is that like sourdough starter, or is it a specific product you can get at the grocery? not op, but it's less common in north america, though you can often find it at specialty shops. you can also just breed a little instant yeast in a bowl of warm water and sugar or something.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:18
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