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indigi posted:I don't see how his brother being a successful lawyer led Jimmy to do insurance fraud and hang out with gangsters but maybe it did somehow, I don't think you can infer that from what we see in the show though Jimmy's brother veto'd any attempt to move Jimmy up at HHM, while secretly hiding this decision to keep his relationship with Jimmy good. Jimmy earnestly tries to prove to his brother that he has changed as a person, especially with how he handles the elderly care case. Only for HHM to take over the case, and completely disregard him. Jimmy is a hustler at the beginning of the show, but I don't necessarily think he's a bad person. He goes out of his way in the beginning to help his clients.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:02
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Jimmy's brother veto'd any attempt to move Jimmy up at HHM, while secretly hiding this decision to keep his relationship with Jimmy good.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:10
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BCS is unironically a show about the class struggle, and how one comes to be a member of the petit bourgeois.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:13
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Rhea Seehorn, my DMs are always open for you my queen.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:15
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man, "nobody" was great. had to look up the credits: directed by the guy who did "hardcore henry" and written by the guy who did "john wick". no wonder they got the tone exactly right. some great moments I was lol for real
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Jun 5, 2021 03:20
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i remember that i enjoyed that movie very much, but basically nothing else about it
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Jun 5, 2021 03:21
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it was weird seeing christopher lloyd in something again uhhhh marty, we have to go back in time, here take a shotgun
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Jun 5, 2021 03:22
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oh yeah, i finished watching godzilla vs kong the other day. it was good. i also watched kong: skull island and it was pretty good, too. i still haven't watched godfather of canton even though i got a bootleg from ebay. my eyes have been pretty tired at the end of the day lately and reading subtitles has been kind of a non-starter
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Jun 5, 2021 03:23
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:it was weird seeing christopher lloyd in something again I watched the back to the future series earlier this year and kept on cracking myself up thinking about christopher lloyd saying "marty they're loving me in the rear end." Also the cumtown bit.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:24
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marty where we're going you can kill homeless people
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Jun 5, 2021 03:37
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:it was weird seeing christopher lloyd in something again "you brought a lot of Russians"
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Jun 5, 2021 04:00
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AnimeIsTrash posted:He goes out of his way in the beginning to help his clients. that’s actually a decent interpretation without the context of his backstory. I thought it was clear he was going out of his way to prove he was the smartest. even when he helps the old lady get her friends back, it’s not because he feels guilt over screwing all these abused old people out of money, it’s cause his plan didn’t work out the way he wanted. he just wanted a flawless victory, he wasn’t trying to do right by anyone also I totally agree his brother was a dickhead to him and put him in situations where his low character would naturally get the better of him, but he was a con artist long before the show started, scamming people out of money at every opportunity - again, not because he couldn’t earn money legitimately, dude clearly has the brain for it - to show how much more clever he was than everyone else. the insurance fraud is whatever, I’m supportive of that, but I feel like conning drunk people out of money at bars is the kind of thing a bad person does.
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Jun 5, 2021 04:11
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keep in mind at the bars he's letting people's own greed get the best of them - he's setting them up to fail the same way his brother does to him. if the drunks didn't try to roll a guy, and then didn't try to rip jimmy off for the rolex, or didn't try to cut a big hog in the rear end by underpaying for his dumb coin or whatever, they wouldn't get got. as the show goes on, jimmy moves between scamming people who are themselves trying to rip somebody off, scamming people who did nothing wrong (slippin jimmy), scamming people who are assholes (music store), etc. my read was that he did indeed feel bad about the old lady losing her friends and really did want the best for her/them (and also to get paid). he was trying to juice it a little, but to my mind he didn't want anybody to get hurt - just to put his thumb on the scale. all the fallout from putting his thumb on that scale serves as a sort or morality play. i'm not saying that my read is better than yours tho- just sayin how i remember it anyway i watched shaft last week and i'm watching the mack right now
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Jun 5, 2021 05:01
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Fatty Crabcakes posted:yeah but Walt framed a janitor for his own theft, tried to rape his wife, murdered his partner's girlfriend, manipulated his partner into murdering someone, poisoned a child, said whatevs to the murder of a child... and was also just st a piece of poo poo from the get-go I'm rewatching breaking bad right now and my partner had the same take from episode one. she describes it as a show where an old man abuses a young guy and its not wrong
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Jun 5, 2021 05:26
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i'm watching in the heat of the night rn. never saw it despite knowing the lion king ref; saw it on a list and thought "gently caress i gotta watch that" it's really nice to be watching a movie that's just normal good-good. not so bad it's good or so fun it's good or good once you get past the bad translation or good if you're familiar with x, y, and z* or goodkaiju movie it's just good. *ok fine x y and z are the civil rights movement, american cinema, etc; everything has background assumptions, whatever, don't @ me
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Jun 5, 2021 05:47
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Chris Knight posted:man, "nobody" was great. had to look up the credits: directed by the guy who did "hardcore henry" and written by the guy who did "john wick". no wonder they got the tone exactly right. some great moments I was lol for real kinda lolin at the idea of the john wick screenplay EXT. BUILDING NYC JOHN WICK and a RUSSIAN GANGSTER stare at each other in the rain. The GANGSTER says something bold and threatening. JOHN WICK says something cool. both of them take out their guns. they FIGHT.
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Jun 5, 2021 06:03
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suddenly remembered this and had to laugh about it again
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Jun 5, 2021 07:12
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Sagebrush posted:kinda lolin at the idea of the john wick screenplay honestly more movies could benefit from this type of writing
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Jun 5, 2021 10:29
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indigi posted:Walt did rape his wife (multiple times iirc) once he's diagnosed with lung cancer, before he did any of the other awful poo poo. but based on everything we see in the show he wasn't a thief, rapist, or accomplice to murder before that. Jimmy comes in as a criminal and never let off the gas; his behavior never changes, even when he's trying to be legit - just the situation he's in, whereas we see Walt's behavior get worse when presented with similar situations over the course of the show. also Jimmy's definitely responsible for more theft, assault, and murder than Walt could ever hope to be by virtue of being a Criminal Lawyer you are really all-in on morality being defined by actions there though. i hate breaking bad for its really weird moralizing, but the one point it communicates pretty well is suggesting that walt was never a good guy (in the sense of personal potentialities rather than actions) and circumstances prodding him slightly he'll do whatever it takes to achieve selfish motives. meanwhile jimmy starts off immoral going by actions alone, but the show makes rather the opposite point, where i think jimmy is portrayed as initially having primarily morally positive impulses (though mingled with an ego which makes it nice and nuanced). Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 10:43
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:you are really all-in on morality being defined by actions there though. i hate breaking bad, but the one point it communicates pretty well is suggesting that walt was never a good guy (in the sense of personal potentialities rather than actions) and circumstances prodding him slightly he'll do whatever it takes to achieve selfish motives. where in Breaking Bad is there any evidence that Walt wasn’t a good person prior to the series? we’re left to assume virtually everything about the falling out with the other scientists since we don’t get a full picture of what happened, but from his family to former students to neighbors nobody had a bad thing to say about the guy. even his lovely boss at the car wash has a good opinion of him. even the scientists he had a falling out with like him enough to regularly invite him to parties and offer to fully pay for his chemo. the people who, we can safely assume, had the most reason to hold a grudge - even they think highly of him “he'll do whatever it takes to achieve selfish motives” - why didn’t he kill himself? if all he was concerned with was himself why did he relent on that? a lot of assumptions about his character prior to his turn (which again begins very early with him raping Skylar) rely on ignoring the categorically unselfish act of choosing to live in pain with cancer (and putting his family at risk of financial ruin) - even though he had multiple monologues about not wanting that - and extrapolating everything backwards. and this all before mentioning that Vince Gilligan has said that Walt was a good guy prior to the beginning of the series. it seems like people are doing a lot of projecting e: and for an actual hot take about Breaking Bad, Jesse was a punk and Walt should have let Gus kill him. snitching rear end bitch indigi fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 10:59
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i don't think either of us can make the point very firm as we just don't know (what the show implies happened before, and what it implies happens in his mind), but i again take issue with the idea that walt has to have *done something* before the show to make him bad, what makes him bad is the contents of his character. there my interpretation is that simple pride and ego set walt off doing horrible things entirely by his own choice (well, faced with a hardship that millions of people face every year, with the potential for support from both family and financially from people who weirdly like him). jimmy by contrast starts off having done some immoral things, but relatively minor and through various misadventure, and it takes a fairly long series of setbacks and outright betrayals (whereas walt is very much on the betraying side) for him to basically give in. Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 11:27
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https://twitter.com/JackTindale/status/1400770143559553027?s=19 God I loved that film
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Jun 5, 2021 11:27
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Chris Knight posted:man, "nobody" was great. had to look up the credits: directed by the guy who did "hardcore henry" and written by the guy who did "john wick". no wonder they got the tone exactly right. some great moments I was lol for real if it had an ounce of self-awareness it could have been a good movie but instead it just whiplashes between tepid slighty-off absurd moments and homages to toxic masculinity and emasculation. it could have been a really cool movie juxtaposing those who are secretly hoping for any excuse to do violence with someone who actually lived (and is missing that life, unlike wick), exploring the long-term real consequences of the idealized "masculine action hero" that some people think they could transform into but instead it just leaned into every lovely action trope from the last decade without any irony or introspection at all the fight scenes were over the top and it just really felt like a b-movie copy of better movies because it completely missed the emotional subtext that made those movies great. bob odenkirk stretched a little with some of the scenes about aching to go back to the only thing he ever enjoyed but fell flat because the director/editor/writers/whatever couldn't nail the followthrough Bhodi fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 15:36
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SmokaDustbowl posted:jimmy's brother posting from beyond the grave lol indigi posted:Walt did rape his wife (multiple times iirc) once he's diagnosed with lung cancer, before he did any of the other awful poo poo. but based on everything we see in the show he wasn't a thief, rapist, or accomplice to murder before that. Jimmy comes in as a criminal and never let off the gas; his behavior never changes, even when he's trying to be legit jimmy was a small time con man and they even go out of their way to show that his cons took in greedy people who were kinda asking for it. like the rare coin scam we see in a flashback. the big thing that chuck will never forgive him for is...taking a dump on someone's car. the whole point of the show is that (1) he always means well for the people he cares about; (2) he is charismatic and friendly and naturally good at manipulating people; (3) he knows this is wrong and is trying to make an honest living; (3) he gets constantly belittled and mistreated because of people who won't overlook his past and he eventually decides to lean into slippin' jimmy since no one is willing to give him a fair shake. walt was an egotistical sad sack rear end in a top hat from the beginning, and he murders two people in the first episode of the series.
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Jun 5, 2021 15:36
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i don't think either of us can make the point very firm as we just don't know (what the show implies happened before, and what it implies happens in his mind) yes it does. I explained how it does. it’s very clear that the other characters in the show, to a person, all think and talk about what a great guy Walt is (was). there’s no ambiguity other than the Gray Matter falling out and, like I’ve repeatedly stated, even they liked him, so I think it’s safe to say whatever happened wasn’t that bad. there’s also absolutely zero evidence in any form what was going on in Walt’s mind before the show began, so all we have to go on are his purported actions and the way those actions made characters respond to him. I think it’s safe to assume that if he was consistently a good and well liked guy, that at worst, what was going on in his mind was morally neutral, which isn’t “bad.” I made my point pretty firmly with both evidence from the show as well as the creator’s interpretation of his work (which, while not being “authoritative” as it were, is certainly a worthwhile piece of evidence). I honestly don’t know where this “we just don’t have the facts” nonsense comes from other than, again, projection. indigi fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 19:09
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you've said the gray matter thing a few times, but wasn't it revealed that he left for dumb petty reasons and harbored a tremendous grudge that he didn't get rich with them even though his colleagues did absolutely nothing wrong and it was him throwing a fit?
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Jun 5, 2021 19:13
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Bhodi posted:this movie was bad, op op it was john wick with bob odenkirk for those of us that cant watch john wick because of the dog thing it was a good movie and i enjoyed it
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Jun 5, 2021 19:15
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so there's "good guy" as in "followed the rules" and there's "good guy" as in "had a pure heart/character/is virtuous" or something. at the beginning of breaking bad, we think walt is both. through his actions, we find out that it was just the former. the show demonstrates how when seemingly-good guys stop following the rules, they turn into monsters at the start of better call saul, we think that jimmy is maybe the latter (but we're unsure), certainly not the former. the show is witnessing jimmy try to be both, fail because he always wants to add a lil juice "without hurting anybody", and shows how even if somebody "has a pure heart," not following the rules leads to all sorts of trouble and people getting hurt even if you never "wanted" that. and at some point, you kinda need to go all in (and he does) the big contrast between the characters is that walt wants what he goes after. he absolutely is the kinda guy that loves what he's doing, and loves being powerful and controlling things. saul seems to hate every minute of it. the question posed to the viewer is that, if they both do bad things, which is worse*? *i mean obv walt is worse - he poisons a kid. the interesting question is if their actions ended up being the same, is it better to be the regretful bumbler or the guy who just says "this rules, this is me now" ? is there a meaningful difference? Achmed Jones fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 19:21
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The central theme in the show is the inner conflict between Jimmy McGill (the earnest hustler) and Saul Goodman (the greedy conman). As the show goes on Jimmy loses more and more of his humanity and becomes more like Saul. Jimmy was absolutely a shithead in his youth but makes an honest attempt to change. They make it pretty clear that a lot of the people they were scramming are either rich, or are well off. Maybe that doesn't make it okay, but it doesn't seem like they were actively going out and harming the world. The concept of good and bad differs in everyone but most people can probably empathize with Jimmy during the early stages of his life/career.
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Jun 5, 2021 19:23
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he was actually a shitcar not a shithead
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Jun 5, 2021 19:31
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Achmed Jones posted:you've said the gray matter thing a few times, but wasn't it revealed that he left for dumb petty reasons and harbored a tremendous grudge that he didn't get rich with them even though his colleagues did absolutely nothing wrong and it was him throwing a fit? we never got the full details, but even assuming your read is 100% accurate - so what? how does it make him a bad person that he left because he felt like he wasn’t given enough credit? his “grudge” never amounted to anything more than grumbling to Skylar. he never tried to sue them or badmouth them to the press or anything. seems like pretty normal human stuff
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Jun 5, 2021 19:48
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AnimeIsTrash posted:The central theme in the show is the inner conflict between Jimmy McGill (the earnest hustler) and Saul Goodman (the greedy conman). As the show goes on Jimmy loses more and more of his humanity and becomes more like Saul. sure, but the fact that he resumed that behavior and ramps it up the second he hit any sort of resistance is what (to me) makes him a lovely dude. also wasn’t it stated he was scamming old people on fixed incomes during his slippin Jimmy phase?
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Jun 5, 2021 19:53
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gray matter performers live TCBin' man
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Jun 5, 2021 19:55
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yeah exactly
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Jun 5, 2021 19:58
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indigi posted:we never got the full details, but even assuming your read is 100% accurate - so what? how does it make him a bad person that he left because he felt like he wasn’t given enough credit? his “grudge” never amounted to anything more than grumbling to Skylar. he never tried to sue them or badmouth them to the press or anything. seems like pretty normal human stuff it seems like you're just kinda categorically rejecting any idea of someone's character as divorced from their actions, or as taking counterfactual scenarios into account. from what you're saying, walt is good until he starts doing bad things. not everyone views whether he's a good person or not that way. other folks are saying "look, he's kind of a petty poo poo and as soon as he gets power he goes nuts, that's evidence that he's not exactly a great guy" and you're saying "no he was a totally good guy until he started being mean." if you can't countenance that he might be a bad guy even before he does bad things, then ok but you've got a nonstandard take on human behavior, character, etc quote:how does it make him a bad person that he left because he felt like he wasn’t given enough credit that's a pretty shallow way to look at it. "that doesn't make him Bad With a Capital B!" yeah, ok, he's not irredeemably Evil at that point. that's fine, because that category doesn't exist outside of fantasy novels. normal people don't do the stuff that walt did, even when they're diagnosed with terminal cancer. he clearly wasn't a normal guy in desperate circumstances. you can tell by how he keeps doing crazy stuff even after the cancer stuff isn't motivating it anyway it seems we have pretty radically different understandings of what it takes for someone to have, like, a blameworth or praiseworthy character or whatever you wanna call it, so ima duck out. i like better call saul more than breaking bad
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Jun 5, 2021 20:10
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Achmed Jones posted:it seems like you're just kinda categorically rejecting any idea of someone's character as divorced from their actions, or as taking counterfactual scenarios into account. from what you're saying, walt is good until he starts doing bad things. not everyone views whether he's a good person or not that way. other folks are saying "look, he's kind of a petty poo poo and as soon as he gets power he goes nuts, that's evidence that he's not exactly a great guy" “if someone does bad things, they must have always been bad. but Jimmy was good before.” again, this is pure projection. thanks for admitting it at least
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Jun 5, 2021 20:21
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Walter White, prior to the beginning of Breaking Bad, had already broken Good, Alright I Guess, Not My Thing But Okay, and Meh. That's why he was already a villain. He's a Serial Breaker
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Jun 5, 2021 21:08
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ive never seen an ep of bcs because it seemed like a cash-in and everything you needed to know about saul or jimmy or whatever you want to call him was explained in breaking bad the most curious are the people that never watched bb but watch bcs. like what
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Jun 5, 2021 21:23
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Jonny 290 posted:ive never seen an ep of bcs because it seemed like a cash-in and everything you needed to know about saul or jimmy or whatever you want to call him was explained in breaking bad Better Call Saul is a better show than Breaking Bad. They don't make you constantly dislike every character on screen.
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Jun 5, 2021 21:29
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I've never seen an episode of [tv show], but clearly people who watch it are dumb.
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Jun 5, 2021 21:32
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