[Pop Culture] the theatrical cut removes the scene that sets up the orc race war

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pop Culture] the theatrical cut removes the scene that sets up the orc race war

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paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Infinshitty snore

# ? Jun 14, 2021 04:13

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 23:08

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

i just ran fourteen million simulations to see if there were any where we beat thanos

wow thats awesome did you learn anything important that might be useful in the battle thats starting in like half an hour

not really no

# ? Jun 14, 2021 04:27

Okuteru: Nov 10, 2007; Choose this life you're on your own

Speaking of Cape movies, when did they become so sexless?

Disney, I get, but I remember the 90s Batman movies and Returns and Forever were horny as gently caress!

# ? Jun 14, 2021 05:28

Aglet56: Sep 1, 2011

Forceholy posted:

Speaking of Cape movies, when did they become so sexless?

Disney, I get, but I remember the 90s Batman movies and Returns and Forever were horny as gently caress!

i think this topic has been discussed in this very thread before. somebody noted that movies becoming more sexless coincided with internet porn becoming widely available. it seems plausible that people don't need to see hornt up poo poo in their movies if they can just watch porn at home

similarly, the erotic thriller has pretty much completely died

# ? Jun 14, 2021 06:12

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 244 days!

Forceholy posted:

Speaking of Cape movies, when did they become so sexless?

Disney, I get, but I remember the 90s Batman movies and Returns and Forever were horny as gently caress!

disney.

although re: the above, an erotic thriller would get me way hornier than an actual porno at this point because there might be flirting and sexual tension that isn't immediately released in it

# ? Jun 14, 2021 06:24

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

new show on hbomax called Hacks, about comedy writing. first ep is free on the site. i'm really enjoying it so far

# ? Jun 14, 2021 06:37

DesertIslandHermit: Oct 7, 2019; It's beautiful. And it's for the god of...of...arts and crafts. I think that's what he said.

The last superhero movie with sex was Hancock and he cummed so hard he blew a hole in a roof. And that was a deleted scene.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 06:41

Blood Boils: Dec 27, 2006; Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

It depends, watchmen is all about sex and repression

In moss Supes and Lois make out after saving the worl - sorry, I mean deliberately allowing people and property to be destroyed due to low Care levels

In Beavis they get it on in a bathtub, while batfleck has a model in his bed with a bunch of wine bottles and painkillers but likely he was too impotent so they just cuddled while he cried about his dumb dad

I remember the first ctpn America being really horny but it's all unfulfilled iirc

Swamp thing has Adrienne Barbeau, so even the censored yankee version is hot af

Constantine is too committed to being miserable to gently caress, probably why everyone wants to gently caress him especially Satan

# ? Jun 14, 2021 06:45

Durf: Aug 16, 2017

we've been burning through the star treks during quarantine and just started Enterprise season 3, and the escalation of EXPLOSIONS AND TITS AND MARINES is a tad concerning. was surprisingly fun until now

also everyone's behavior has gotten more extreme. Archer's screaming at everyone and T'pol has gone from cold and sardonic to either making doe eyes or looking like she was crying between takes

i assume this is Rick Berman's fault

Durf has issued a correction as of 07:02 on Jun 14, 2021

# ? Jun 14, 2021 06:59

Farm Frenzy: Jan 3, 2007

Been watching a lot of Jean Claude van damme lately and I think part of the reason movies have less sex in them is that it's now gauche to have exactly one female character who's there to establish that the protagonist isn't gay

# ? Jun 14, 2021 08:15

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY: Feb 3, 2006

Farm Frenzy posted:

Been watching a lot of Jean Claude van damme lately and I think part of the reason movies have less sex in them is that it's now gauche to have exactly one female character who's there to establish that the protagonist isn't gay

Nah lots of movies still go out of their way to prove the protagonist is definitely straight.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 09:12

mandatory lesbian: Dec 18, 2012

Forceholy posted:

Speaking of Cape movies, when did they become so sexless?

Disney, I get, but I remember the 90s Batman movies and Returns and Forever were horny as gently caress!

they stopped letting the gay man be a director

# ? Jun 14, 2021 12:02

Organic Lube User: Apr 15, 2005

Blood Boils posted:

It depends, watchmen is all about sex and repression

In moss Supes and Lois make out after saving the worl - sorry, I mean deliberately allowing people and property to be destroyed due to low Care levels

In Beavis they get it on in a bathtub, while batfleck has a model in his bed with a bunch of wine bottles and painkillers but likely he was too impotent so they just cuddled while he cried about his dumb dad

I remember the first ctpn America being really horny but it's all unfulfilled iirc

Swamp thing has Adrienne Barbeau, so even the censored yankee version is hot af

Constantine is too committed to being miserable to gently caress, probably why everyone wants to gently caress him especially Satan

I don't think Constantine or even Swamp Thing classify as your standard cape fare.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 12:20

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008

The arrowverse characters gently caress, but that is CW.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 12:25

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

The MCU movies is pretty much only beefcake and suprisingly little cheesecake compared to the comics.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 12:38

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

People have been writing about how sexless movies are for a while, esp wrt Marvel movies. I haven't read this one, but it's one of many:

https://www.themarysue.com/loki-marvel-movies-sexless/

It is weird though, right? I think there's a general trend toward prudishness among corporations and younger people that's going to make us look weird in time.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 12:50

How Darwinian: Feb 27, 2011

Aglet56 posted:

i only saw it once but i was really underwhelmed by the first kingsman movie; the fight scene in the church, which seemed to be the big setpiece that everyone liked, just seemed like a throwback to the mid-2000s in the worst way:

- difficult-to-follow "shaky cam" handheld camera work
- antagonists are low-effort easy targets (namely, westboro baptist church pastiches). colin firth owns them by saying that he's gay and he has sex with a black guy XD so edgy
- the soundtrack is a song from guitar hero

Kingsman owns, and all of this is intentional. The Westboro Baptist Church guys aren't antagonists, they're chosen targets for a weapons test by Silicon Valley Lib Samuel Jackson, exactly because Libs feel morally justified in letting these people die (just as they feel morally justified in letting antivaxxers die now). And to Samuel Jackson's mind, he's not really killing them anyway. He can't even stand to see the blood.

If people liked the fight scene then they may be hosed in the head. It wasn't likable, and that's the point.

This puts this super well (and the whole piece is really worth reading, although sorry for the all caps).
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/07/17/film-crit-hulk-smash-kingsman-and-the-maybe-genius-of-non-winking-satire

Film Crit Hulk - KINGSMAN And The Maybe-Genius Of Non-Winking Satire posted:

7. MEANINGLESS VIOLENCE

SO THERE IS A SCENE IN KINGSMAN THAT IS ALREADY KIND OF INFAMOUS. MOSTLY BECAUSE IT'S THE KIND OF SCENE THAT INSPIRES COUNTLESS DIFFERENT REACTIONS, ALL OF THEM PROBABLY JUSTIFIED. BUT WHAT HULK LOVES MOST ABOUT THIS SCENE IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE EXPRESS THEIR OPINION ABOUT IT, THEY ARE ACTUALLY TELLING YOU A LOT ABOUT THEMSELVES.

HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS:

AFTER A LOT OF MCGUFFIN CHASING AND VARIOUS PLOT MACHINATIONS, THE FILM REACHES ITS 2/3 POINT AND OUR MAIN MENTORING AGENT, COLIN FIRTH'S "GALAHAD," ARRIVES AT A SMALL CHURCH IN THE SOUTH IN ORDER TO INVESTIGATE WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE BAD GUY'S PLOT. TURNS OUT THIS CHURCH WAS SPECIFICALLY TARGETED BECAUSE IT HAPPENS TO BE FULL OF THE WORST END OF THE SPECTRUM OF AMERICAN CONSERVATIVISM, I.E. HATEFUL OF JUST ABOUT EVERYONE NOT LIKE THEM. OF COURSE, SAM JACKSON'S "V" IS MANIPULATING THIS ENTIRE EVENT AND WATCHING FROM ACROSS THE STREET. SO HE TURNS A LITTLE DOOHICKEY AND SUDDENLY GALAHAD STARTS RESPONDING TO THESE JERKS HYPER AGGRESSIVELY WITH A LONG-WINDED AND PROGRESSIVE-MINDED TROLLING JOKE TO CONFRONT THE EVILS OF THE WOMAN NEXT TO HIM, WHICH IS COMPLETELY OUT OF CHARACTER FOR HIM. REELING FROM THE EMOTIONAL OUTBURST, HE MAKES HIS WAY TOWARD THE EXIT, AND THEN JUST STARTS SHOOTING A MAN... CUE ONE OF THE MOST EXTREME-BUT-PLACID ACTION SEQUENCES YOU HAVE EVER SEEN WHERE EVERYONE IN THE CHURCH JUST STARTS MURDERING EACH OTHER, ALL SET TO THE MOST CLICHE OF ALL CLICHE AMERICAN MUSIC: "FREEBIRD." AND SERIOUSLY, EVERYONE JUST STARTS FIGHTING. THERE'S NO POINT OR INTENTION TO IT. THEY JUST SEEM NOT TO BE IN CONTROL. AND IN TERMS OF TONAL EXECUTION, THERE IS NO EMPHASIS ON THE UGLINESS EVEN THOUGH IT IS INDEED UGLY. EVEN ALL THE COOL FIGHTING MOVIES AND GORE ALMOST SEEM WEIRDLY DISTANT UNDER THAT INSANE SOUNDTRACK. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, FIRTH IS THE LAST ONE STANDING, HE SEEMS TO COME TO HIS SENSES, AND WALKS OUTSIDE WHEREIN HE CONFRONTS THE VILLAIN ABOUT WHAT JUST HAPPENED...

SO THE SCENE IS THE CLOSEST THING HULK HAS EVER SEEN IN TERMS OF AN ACTUAL CINEMATIC REPRESENTATION OF MEANINGLESS VIOLENCE.

NO, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS SIMPLY NON-DRAMATIC OR DEVALUING LIFE, BUT MORE IN THE SENSE THAT HULK GENUINELY FELT NOTHING WHILE WATCHING IT. THERE IS NO ROOTING INTEREST. NO DRAMA. NO CONTEXT. MEANING IT'S NOT VIOLENCE THERE SECRETLY TO CATER TO INDULGENT BLOODTHIRST, OR CATER TO A DESIRE FOR COOL ACTION. HULK KNOWS IT MAY SEEM LIKE IT, AS THAT IS THE "WHAT" BEING FILMED, BUT THE CONTEXT AND THE CINEMATIC LANGUAGE ABSOLUTELY READ OTHERWISE. THE SCENE IS NOT MEANT TO GLORIFY THE VIOLENCE, NOR IS IT MEANT TO MAKE YOU FEEL BAD OR RUB YOUR FACE IN GRIMNESS, NOR THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION (THEY PICKED THE WORST PEOPLE AS TARGETS WITHIN THE CHURCH FOR A REASON). AND IT PICKED THE MOST OVERPLAYED, STALE, EPIC SONG YOU'VE SEEN A MILLION TIMES FOR A REASON. HECK, IT PRACTICALLY HAD TO BE "FREEBIRD" IN ORDER TO WORK WITH THIS KIND OF DISTANCING EFFECT. AND THUS, THE SCENE IS THE ONLY TIME THAT HULK FEELS LIKE AN AUDIENCE WAS PURPOSEFULLY GUIDED INTO A SECTION OF ACTION WHERE THE MEANINGLESSNESS WAS THE ABSOLUTE TOTAL POINT OF WHAT WE WERE SEEING.

THIS IS NOT TO ARGUE THAT THIS IS SOME LANDMARK MORAL ACCOMPLISHMENT. THERE HAVE BEEN MUCH GRANDER MEDITATIONS ON MEANINGLESS VIOLENCE (HELLO A SHORT FILM ABOUT KILLING) AND INSIGHTS INTO VIOLENCE THAT ARE INFINITELY MORE PROFOUND. BUT THE REASON HULK REALLY ENGAGES WITH THIS SCENE IS THAT IT WAS THE FIRST TIME HULK FELT LIKE HULK'S LOVE OF ACTION DIDN'T IMBUE THE SCENE WITH ANY BASER WAYS WHILE WATCHING IT UNFOLD. HULK FELT THE APPROPRIATE DISTANCE. AS SUCH, IT IS THE CLOSEST HULK HAS SEEN IN A MAINSTREAM FILM TO GETTING TO THE ESSENTIAL "IRONY" AT THE HEART OF HOW OFTEN WE THROW AROUND THE TERM "MEANINGLESS VIOLENCE" ITSELF. BECAUSE SO OFTEN, WE WANT THE VIOLENCE. SO OFTEN WE ROOT FOR IT. SO OFTEN IT IS PART OF THE LANGUAGE OF OUR IMPULSES. BUT EVEN WHILE THIS SCENE GOES ON AND ON AND ON, THERE IS NO REAL SENSE OF WHAT IS EVEN HAPPENING (WHICH IS WHY THE EXPLANATION HAS TO COME AFTER) IN ORDER TO FULLY THROW YOU INTO SOMETHING WITHOUT CONTEXT. AND HERE'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT:

IF WE DEMAND THAT FILMS BE HONEST, IS AN ACTUAL REPRESENTATION OF MEANINGLESS VIOLENCE NOT THE MOST HONEST THING A VIOLENT BLOCKBUSTER CAN DO?

# ? Jun 14, 2021 13:01

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Forceholy posted:

Speaking of Cape movies, when did they become so sexless?

Disney, I get, but I remember the 90s Batman movies and Returns and Forever were horny as gently caress!

# ? Jun 14, 2021 13:45

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

i hate the all caps gimmick because hes making a serious argument look cartoonish for no reason

yes i appreciate the irony of my making that particular point the difference is my shitposts are for free i wouldnt expect to actually publish this crap anywhere without editing it to include proper punctuation

# ? Jun 14, 2021 13:59

How Darwinian: Feb 27, 2011

Yeah, even he's given up the gimmick and just writes normal reviews now. But the point stands: Kingsmen rules and is one of the most class conscious movies to come out in years. It makes me sad every time it flies over people's heads.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:03

Echo Chamber: Oct 16, 2008; best username/post combo

They're less horny because capitalism realized movies don't have to bend over backwards to prove their heroes aren't gay.

The Red Letter Media thing of "the case of the not gays" really did become obsolete.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:11

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Also seems like a problem that as movies become increasingly international the list of offensive content grows. If you have something that's fine in the US but offensive in China, or vice versa, they'll just cut it because they have no artistic vision and are simply trying to cash in.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:17

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Not sure how Avatar fits into this trend though tbh

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:22

HootTheOwl: May 13, 2012; Hootin and shootin

Fitzy Fitz posted:

Not sure how Avatar fits into this trend though tbh

James Cameron made enough off Titanic to not care.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:25

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Fitzy Fitz posted:

Also seems like a problem that as movies become increasingly international the list of offensive content grows. If you have something that's fine in the US but offensive in China, or vice versa, they'll just cut it because they have no artistic vision and are simply trying to cash in.

theres little to no evidence the chinese market or any other international market significantly cares about that stuff theyre just used as a convenient bogeyman to xenophobically justify unpopular decisions by hollywood

reminder that they used to use china as their excuse for not using minority actors because chinese people are so racist but that arguments lost a lot of plausibility now that anyone can look up box office figures and see that fast and the furious is the most popular american franchise there

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:27

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

someone sincerely posted Film Crit Hulk lmao

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:32

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Some Guy TT posted:

theres little to no evidence the chinese market or any other international market significantly cares about that stuff theyre just used as a convenient bogeyman to xenophobically justify unpopular decisions by hollywood

I think you�re right generally but why did they cut out the lesbian kiss from RoS for China

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:34

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

they actually didnt

https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers-lgbt-kiss-scene-china-censored/
http://gomag.com/article/the-lesbian-kiss-in-star-wars-has-been-censored-in-two-countries/

if youre just reading those article names and going wtf some guy tt it says right there it was censored in china well misleading headlines like that are probably why you think it was censored

there was also ridiculously disproportionate coverage of it being censored in singapore a country whose censorship is almost never reported on in english solely so the entertainment press could keep this impression alive in the headlines after they were forced to admit it didnt actually happen in china

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:45

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

lmao yeah it actually was 100% the headlines that made me think that. thank u American media

# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:47

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Still p sure a huge part is simply that internet porn becoming a thing meant that movies having titty shots to get teens to watch them is just downright quaint, everyone stopped pretending they cared, and turns out most of Hollywood's sexuality was blatant pandering to what they thought an audience who would have genuine difficulty getting porn would want.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 15:50

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

yeah but HBO never really gave up on �let�s get some tits and dongs in there.� I think it�s mostly to due with trying to stay PG-13

# ? Jun 14, 2021 15:57

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

sex on tv means you�re �serious� while in movies it means the opposite

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:29

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Some Guy TT posted:

theres little to no evidence the chinese market or any other international market significantly cares about that stuff theyre just used as a convenient bogeyman to xenophobically justify unpopular decisions by hollywood

reminder that they used to use china as their excuse for not using minority actors because chinese people are so racist but that arguments lost a lot of plausibility now that anyone can look up box office figures and see that fast and the furious is the most popular american franchise there

I phrased it poorly, but what I mean is that the broader your audience the more you have to appeal to, even if you're just talking about a larger slice of the US market. That's not to say that broadly appealing movies have to be bad, but Disney is in the business of cranking out as much mass-market crap as they can, which is surely contributing to how bland and cookie cutter they all are.

Cookie cutter movies can still feature sex though, so idk. But the Christians won't watch them.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:30

Blood Boils: Dec 27, 2006; Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

Organic Lube User posted:

I don't think Constantine or even Swamp Thing classify as your standard cape fare.

True, they're actually good lol

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:32

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Some Guy TT posted:

so im leaving infinity war on the background on cable and i just realized you dont even have to go to endgame to find support for supermechagodzillas doctor strange deliberately murders tony stark theory of the movie in the battle that literally happens right after doctor strange is looking at alternate futures theyve got thanos pinned down and starlord fucks it up by melting down when he realizes that gamora is dead

its wild how many epistemological problems the movie creates with that one stupid scene that only exists to pointlessly invoke the whole million to one chance cliche

That was my theory, my only contribution to film discourse ever so I'm gonna keep ownership of it

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:33

nonathlon: Jul 9, 2004; And yet, somehow, now it's my fault ...

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Still p sure a huge part is simply that internet porn becoming a thing meant that movies having titty shots to get teens to watch them is just downright quaint, everyone stopped pretending they cared, and turns out most of Hollywood's sexuality was blatant pandering to what they thought an audience who would have genuine difficulty getting porn would want.

I think that's a part of it: modern film isn't sexless, old films had a lot of blatant pandering. See "Bond girls", the teen sex comedy, the 'erotic thriller', the saxophone-backed sex scene in almost every 80s film. It's almost laughable how obvious the thinking was.

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:38

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

mastershakeman posted:

That was my theory, my only contribution to film discourse ever so I'm gonna keep ownership of it

ok fine ill call it the mastershakeman theory when referencing it on the forum

otherwise im just going to pretend i came up with it on my own as usual

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:39

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/1403886065505607683

it took me way too long to realize that indigi was referencing rise of skywalker and not revenge of the sith for this exact reason lol

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:47

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

lol

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:48

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 23:08

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

this is a convenient way to compartmentalize it by the way because now i can call the steve rogers is a rapist thought experiment the supermechagodzilla infinity wars theory and not have to worry about mixing them up

# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pop Culture] the theatrical cut removes the scene that sets up the orc race war

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