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Let’s compromise and have armies be represented by animated chess pieces, their type indicating army composition. Pawns = infantry army, knight = cavalry, bishop = infantry-cavalry mix, rook = infantry + artillery and so on.
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Jun 22, 2021 07:56
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I maybe wouldn't mind the goofy 3d models so much if they reduced them in size by like 50%. But currently the map just always looks so cluttered. Gaius Marius posted:I hate watching them walk between provinces. It looks gross every time this gets mentioned someone explains why it's necessary for armies to stand in place while moving and why it can't be otherwise, but I can never remember what the reason is... it seems so weird that this is still the best option available, because it does look pretty bad ilitarist posted:Paradox games don't have a lot of stuff to put you in the atmosphere of the era. Map rendering differs, music too, and UI, but those things are either not flavourful or are in a very specific style. Like EU4 map is just "realistic" while CK3 gives you a medieval painting vibe, but it's a very specific Western European painting. Imperator Rome UI rework recently tried to make it eclectic but I'm not sure it works. Basically, soldier models are usually the only thing that reminds me who do I play as. To replace them with NATO symbols would move those games much closer to proverbial spreadsheet simulator. we have pop portraits for that now!
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Jun 22, 2021 10:15
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I think my problem with the models is its hard to properly visualize the military situation with them; I think Hoi2 had better indicators about how strong a stack was and maybe there could be improvement here. Like instead of some 3D dude, it's like a formation of troops in a rectangle that alters its shape based on numbers, troop composition, number of armies, and size.fuf posted:every time this gets mentioned someone explains why it's necessary for armies to stand in place while moving and why it can't be otherwise, but I can never remember what the reason is... It's weird to animate probably because if they're slowly moving into the adjacent province and then you cancel the move order before the locked in point it has to warp back in place. It'd be kinda neat if it was more like Rome Total War where instead of province to province, they moved freely through the map, constrained a bit by terrain where impassable, but battle is only joined when two armies are close enough in the same province. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 22, 2021 11:18
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Raenir Salazar posted:It's weird to animate probably because if they're slowly moving into the adjacent province and then you cancel the move order before the locked in point it has to warp back in place. hmm yeah that sounds familiar but I still don't know why the warping of an occasional cancelled move order is worse than the current system where armies warp every single time they move? Raenir Salazar posted:It'd be kinda neat if it was more like Rome Total War where instead of province to province, they moved freely through the map, constrained a bit by terrain where impassable, but battle is only joined when two armies are close enough in the same province. yeah the upcoming Knights of Honor 2 is a good example of cool-looking real time army movement (and also how 3d models for armies can look good if more appropriately scaled). This is my dream system probably. But I just don't think there's any way it could work in a paradox game because they are so province-based. there's no distinction of space or proximity within a province. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xerLPwNM_U8&t=239s
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Jun 22, 2021 11:46
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Thanks for the link! I'll take a look. You'd have to add stuff to how paradox games work but I imagine something like where an army is in a province can determine a number of things. The closer it is to the edge next to where you're about to attack can maximize your organization but also means you're committed and can't retreat as easily etc. You now have a third state between unoccupied/occupied which would be contested when two armies hostile to each other are in the same province but not locked into battle yet.
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Jun 22, 2021 11:59
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little wooden toy soldiers with a hand-painted aesthetic for figures-proponents, kriegsspiel counters (not NATO ones - plenty of historical precedent for symbols representing unit types) for the rest of us. make it toggle-able so you can easily flip back and forth if you're a sicko
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Jun 22, 2021 13:24
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Let’s compromise and have armies be represented by animated chess pieces, their type indicating army composition. Pawns = infantry army, knight = cavalry, bishop = infantry-cavalry mix, rook = infantry + artillery and so on. paradox bring back battle chess
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Jun 22, 2021 13:57
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I kinda figured it out second hand, but what's mana? Is it just any resource that lets you accomplish something as an abstraction of political will/effort?
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Jun 22, 2021 14:55
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Pladdicus posted:I kinda figured it out second hand, but what's mana? Is it just any resource that lets you accomplish something as an abstraction of political will/effort? Yeah. Political Power in EU4 and HOI4, Influence in Stellaris.
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Jun 22, 2021 15:06
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Specifically points that you stockpile and then spend in big lump sums, mana isn't just "any resource in a game" but saving up 120 dove points to build some more plantations instantly when you hit the button. Victoria 3's capacities look a lot better to me, even if in practical terms locking 10 dove capacity points per month on promoting plantation construction for a year is kinda the same as saving up 120 dove points. It just "feels" more like a simulation than a board game in my head if the ship of state is slower to turn and there's like a streaming economy that takes time and intention to do things rather than stockpiling arbitrary dove points that are perfectly fungible and can be converted into any kind of dove project instantly on demand.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 22, 2021 16:15
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I've honestly never had a problem with 'mana.' It's a game, there's going to be things abstracted out, and it's as good a way as any to say "Your empire spent an administrative effort on this thing." From what I can tell, the main reason for all the hate is Imperator on release, which had the various mana types horrifically unbalanced, and generally had that scapegoated as the big key reason it was bad (there were like a dozen other, worse things.) That having been said, the capacities in Vicky 3 looks pretty great and probably fit the overall theme/feel of the series a lot more.
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Jun 22, 2021 16:23
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AnoHito posted:From what I can tell, the main reason for all the hate is Imperator on release, which had the various mana types horrifically unbalanced, and generally had that scapegoated as the big key reason it was bad (there were like a dozen other, worse things.) It was also pretty bad and imbalanced and paralyzing in the early days of EU4.
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Jun 22, 2021 16:25
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The main issue with mana from a balance perspective is people going ahead of time; this seems a lot easier to balance around ala rechargeable shields in Halo; than mana.
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Jun 22, 2021 16:26
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Since V3 is claiming to have no mana, I am going to insist on calling cash "pound mana".
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Jun 22, 2021 16:45
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gonna spend some of my click mana on this button
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Jun 22, 2021 17:08
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VostokProgram posted:Little wooden toy soldiers It helps if you think of the real ones as disposable as toy soldiers
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Jun 22, 2021 17:14
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soldier pops generate soldier mana which can be spent on armies
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Jun 22, 2021 17:20
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Jazerus posted:soldier pops generate soldier mana which can be spent on armies Soldier pops generate War Mana. To attack an enemy, you spend War Mana and select a wargoal. That enemy then has one month to spend 10% more War Mana than you to block your attack. You then have a month to spend 10% more War Mana than they just spent, and it goes back and forth until one side backs down or runs out of War Mana. If you win, you get back 1/4 of the War Mana you spent, otherwise you get back none of it, creating a sunk cost fallacy that spirals small skirmishes out of control
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Jun 22, 2021 17:24
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Maybe they'll make a fantasy dlc where you can hire wizards and charge up your mana mana to cast powerful spells.
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Jun 23, 2021 13:34
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https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1407699966609346561 They need to release this game yesterday
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Jun 23, 2021 15:01
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Clippers...
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Jun 23, 2021 15:05
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I mean, you wouldn't use a clipper for fishing. Clippers were fast trading ships designed to cross entire oceans. They'd be massive overkill for fishing. They were mostly used for time-sensitive cargoes - tea, opium, people, mail, and spices. I'm not sure what the best catch-all term for "civilian sailing ship" is, but it's not clipper.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:54
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Gort posted:I mean, you wouldn't use a clipper for fishing. Clippers were fast trading ships designed to cross entire oceans. They'd be massive overkill for fishing. Unless this is a joke I think "Clippers" is just an abstraction catch-all for any kind of sailboat/wooden based ship or represent an amount of production effort to go into such a ship i.e why its 50 clippers to make an ironclad etc. edit buahaha vvvvvvv. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 16:04
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Gort posted:I mean, you wouldn't use a clipper for fishing. Clippers were fast trading ships designed to cross entire oceans. They'd be massive overkill for fishing. Then by all means let me know when you've figured out that best catchall term (that isn't something clunky as hell like "wooden sailboats")
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Jun 23, 2021 16:06
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Raenir Salazar posted:why its 50 clippers to make an ironclad etc. Wait, is it? That's really weird if true, the things you do to build a tea clipper and the things you do to build a Monitor-style ironclad (as opposed to a sailing ship with armour) are very different.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:08
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Wiz posted:Then by all means let me know when you've figured out that best catchall term (that isn't something clunky as hell like "wooden sailboats") Maybe you could just use "shipping" or "merchant ships", with late-game steel ships (if they appear) being "modern shipping"? Or it could be "ships" with the military type being "warships" for differentiation.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:12
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Wiz I think the people demand more types of ships to break their economy with
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Jun 23, 2021 16:12
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Wiz posted:Then by all means let me know when you've figured out that best catchall term (that isn't something clunky as hell like "wooden sailboats") How about "Wooden ships"?
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Jun 23, 2021 16:15
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I mean, you already have "Luxury Clothes", so why not just "Civilian Ships" or "Military Ships"?
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Jun 23, 2021 16:20
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Gort posted:Wait, is it? That's really weird if true, the things you do to build a tea clipper and the things you do to build a Monitor-style ironclad (as opposed to a sailing ship with armour) are very different. Checking the Wiki I was wrong Clipper Convoys are used for Frigates, Man o Wars, and Clipper Transports and for POP goods. The example was wrong though the original point still stands as its 15 clippers to make 1 Man'o'War according to the Wiki; so you can think of it as an abstraction of manufacturing effort. Although historically the early Ironclad's were partly still sailboats with a significant amount of wood in their construction so I actually think it would make sense for them to require both Steamers and Clippers or Clippers and a lot of Steel.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:21
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who gives a craaaaaaaaaaaaap
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Jun 23, 2021 16:21
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Ship designer when?
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Jun 23, 2021 16:22
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Popoto posted:who gives a craaaaaaaaaaaaap Yeah, this. There's no such thing as a "machine tool" either but it's an acceptable abstraction for a large category of extremely varied industrial goods, calling all the wind-powered wooden ships "clippers" is fine too imo unless someone's got a similarly snappy thing to call them.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:25
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Eh, it would be weird if "Machine Tools" were called "Lathes" or "Tools" were called "Wrenches". Calling all civilian ships "Clippers" feels a bit off for the same reason, but yeah it's not a huge deal
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Jun 23, 2021 16:27
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Why can't I buy the individual rivets and nails too, wiz? My ability to feel human diminishes by the day...
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Jun 23, 2021 16:29
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I think this calls for at least three DDs on straits.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:31
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Anyway, if production buildings have different settings I wonder if this means we can just click a button to change what type of ship our shipyards build
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Jun 23, 2021 16:35
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really queer Christmas posted:Why can't I buy the individual rivets and nails too, wiz? My ability to feel human diminishes by the day... Gonna make a "Ford's Nightmare" mod, which will do to trade goods what Voltaire's Nightmare did to the HRE.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:35
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AnoHito posted:Gonna make a "Ford's Nightmare" mod, which will do to trade goods what Voltaire's Nightmare did to the HRE. 
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Jun 23, 2021 16:49
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Popoto posted:who gives a craaaaaaaaaaaaap people who know what words mean
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Jun 23, 2021 16:54
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