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Alchenar posted:Have you just taken Germany to war with Turkey? Also you are aware that land goes up as well as along?
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Jul 9, 2021 22:33
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Tripoli to Mersa Matruh is a longer distance than Latakia (Syria) to Yerevan (Armenia), or equidistant from Latakia to Baku, Azerbaijan. Jobbo_Fett posted:You go through Iraq/Iran. What if the control of the Med influences Turkey? Have you seen the terrain on the Iraq-Azerbaijan border? Rommel did not drive from Tripoli to Mersah Matrah. The distance from Derna to Mersah Matruh is less than half of that distance.
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Jul 9, 2021 22:40
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Have you seen the terrain on the Iraq-Azerbaijan border? But the supplies go through Tripoli... The 5th Light Division landed in Tripoli. gently caress, you didn't even pick a starting point like El Agheila, just cut half-way to Derna.
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Jul 9, 2021 23:00
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Y'all are forgetting ECCE ROMANI, the most genious text to ever exist. *Scoff*
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Jul 9, 2021 23:45
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SubG posted:I've never read Ecce Romani, but I still have a copy of Ørberg's Lingua Latina sitting on a shelf in the bathroom for toilet reading. SubCe puer molestus est
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Jul 10, 2021 00:05
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Grumio posted:*Scoff* Shouldn’t you be in culinarium, coquiit? (Actually got to visit the house of Caecilius in Pompeii back in 2019; it was something of a special moment for me and my wife totally failed to understand why I wanted her to sit in the garden..) Camrath fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 00:11
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Jobbo_Fett posted:But the supplies go through Tripoli... The 5th Light Division landed in Tripoli. The supplies follow an army that has to actually go through combat to keep advancing, but how is Rommel getting through the Nile Delta, the Suez, the Sinai, the hills of Palestine, the mountains of Lebanon, the Tigris/Euphrates, and the Zagros mountains in anything approaching the timeframe of Gazala? The whole reason why there were such big distances crossed in North Africa was because there were only a few defensible positions that both sides would retreat madly between if they lost a battle decisively. This changes as soon as the Nile Delta begins, to the Brits' advantage.
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Jul 10, 2021 00:23
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The supplies follow an army that has to actually go through combat to keep advancing, but how is Rommel getting through the Nile Delta, the Suez, the Sinai, the hills of Palestine, the mountains of Lebanon, the Tigris/Euphrates, and the Zagros mountains in anything approaching the timeframe of Gazala? The whole reason why there were such big distances crossed in North Africa was because there were only a few defensible positions that both sides would retreat madly between if they lost a battle decisively. This changes as soon as the Nile Delta begins, to the Brits' advantage. You land in Syria, like a not-idiot? Like, the idea is a hypothetical on what could be gained in a victory in North Africa, and there are so many variables that aren't being touched on. Its like, okay there are mountains to Baku, are they defended? Is it similar to the Kasserine Pass? Are we only taking into account ground forces? What kind of effect does this have on Soviet troops in the Caucasus? How many troops could the British have lost in a mass retreat through Egypt? What if Vichy France gives Germany open access? What if the Coup in Iraq leads to an alliance with the Axis? How does this affect or change the Syria-Lebanon Campaign? Would there have been uprisings against the Free French?
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Jul 10, 2021 00:36
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Jobbo_Fett posted:You land in Syria, like a not-idiot? Unless you've given Rommel a time machine it's difficult for him to do anything to effect those events.
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Jul 10, 2021 00:39
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Alchenar posted:Unless you've given Rommel a time machine it's difficult for him to do anything to effect those events. Rommel had already beat the odds to do as well as he did in North Africa.
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Jul 10, 2021 00:41
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SubG posted:Cool. That's pretty much the opposite of my experience with (Septuagint/NT) Koine. Caesar is a super common teaching text because it's almost written like a tutorial--straightforward syntax, mostly simple vocabulary, and so on. That's the opposite of e.g. the Gospels, which despite being short texts all feature idiosyncrasies that aren't found elsewhere in the NT. And there are idioms that aren't attested to anywhere else. And a lot of the syntax/style is similarly idiosyncratic (this kinda bleeds through in a lot of English translations of for example Mark, although it's more jarring--to me at least--in Koine). So learning from it you're not really developing a tool that can be used on Koine in general much less Attic Greek. Whereas what you learn from studying (the language of) Gallic War is something that's broadly applicable to Latin outside of Caesar. That was my understanding as well-- Caesar is pretty easy reading as far as Latin goes and that was precisely why my tutor selected it (and I suspect it had something to do with how he learned Latin as a student in Scotland in the latter half of the 30s). The course of study focused on the more regular lower declension and conjugation nouns and verbs and then advanced into the far more irregular (and more commonly used/abused vocabulary) in the higher declensions and conjugations. As it was, quite a lot of Caesar can be read using that foundational understanding. Greek is something I bounced off of hard as a young student and I never really made a formal attempt to learn it, but as I understand it Koine is the Greek vernacular of the Hellenistic world so I could see that being extremely irregular to the point that elements of it might be near unrecognizable between two different times and places. It would, I think, almost require a deep degree of specialization in a specific context to really do the language justice. It's a shame, really, because as I have gotten older and (possibly) wiser, it seems to me more and more that of all the cultures of the ancient West, the Greeks understood the basic elements of human nature the best.
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Jul 10, 2021 00:47
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Y'all are forgetting ECCE ROMANI, the most genious text to ever exist. Ecce! In pictura est puella, nomine Cornelia
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Jul 10, 2021 00:52
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Fearless posted:That was my understanding as well-- Caesar is pretty easy reading as far as Latin goes and that was precisely why my tutor selected it (and I suspect it had something to do with how he learned Latin as a student in Scotland in the latter half of the 30s). The course of study focused on the more regular lower declension and conjugation nouns and verbs and then advanced into the far more irregular (and more commonly used/abused vocabulary) in the higher declensions and conjugations. As it was, quite a lot of Caesar can be read using that foundational understanding. I took a semester of Latin in college, mostly on a lark, and while grad school and then family have paused that for the last uh fifteen years or so and I'm only at the "mostly gets the gist of one-line inscriptions on statues", I did get to work my way through one classic: Daps placebit hodierna! Virent ova! Virent perna! Dapem tuam vix probabo. Tuos cibos non gustabo. Non mi placent, O Pincerna. Virent Ova! Virent perna! Captain von Trapp fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 01:00
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Camrath posted:Shouldn’t you be in culinarium, coquiit? So do I. What's the significance of this?
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Jul 10, 2021 08:45
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Gay black Rommel chat made my week.
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Jul 10, 2021 08:49
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Tias posted:So do I. What's the significance of this? Caecilius and his family is a key topic in the UK GCSE Latin course.
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Jul 10, 2021 11:29
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Fangz posted:Caecilius and his family is a key topic in the UK GCSE Latin course. Specifically the first chapter of the book begins by introducing the characters in super simple cartoons- ‘Grumio est coquus. Grumio est in culinarium coquiit. Metella est mater. Metella est in horto sedet’ etc. It’s basically a shibboleth for people who studied Latin, at least over here. Likewise if you want to bring down the mood mention ‘Cerberus waiting, in vain’. It’s like 30 years since I was working on the stage 1 book, and this is still all deeply imprinted in my mind.
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Jul 10, 2021 12:21
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Camrath posted:Specifically the first chapter of the book begins by introducing the characters in super simple cartoons- ‘Grumio est coquus. Grumio est in culinarium coquiit. Metella est mater. Metella est in horto sedet’ etc. There's more than one UK Latin course, though. Mine (and we're around the same age, close enough) began ''Ecce! In pictūra est puella, nomine Cornēlia. Cornelia est puella Romana quae in Italia habitat'. I've studied Latin and I never read a word of what you just quoted. The thread suggests I'm not alone though not sure if others British  feedmegin fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 13:00
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Fearless posted:Greek is something I bounced off of hard as a young student and I never really made a formal attempt to learn it, but as I understand it Koine is the Greek vernacular of the Hellenistic world so I could see that being extremely irregular to the point that elements of it might be near unrecognizable between two different times and places. I'm not sure this is true actually, the whole point of koine Greek is it's, well, koine. It's a common language across half the Mediterranean spoken as a second language by lots of people, the whole point is it's interoperable. Biblical Greek isn't weird because it's koine, it's weird because its a) about a specialised subject and b) in the case of the Septuagint a translation from Hebrew which has its own idioms. I do seem to recall a bit post the Gospels there was a movement back to more complicated Atticised Greek but that's intentionally making it more grammatically old-style.
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Jul 10, 2021 13:05
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Not having read it, does this Latin book get real dark once Vesuvius explodes?
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Jul 10, 2021 13:08
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Ice Fist posted:Not having read it, does this Latin book get real dark once Vesuvius explodes? Oh yes. feedmegin posted:There's more than one UK Latin course, though. Mine (and we're around the same age, close enough) began Whereas that likewise is completely alien to me. I suspect that Latin education in the UK has, like most things here, turned out to be distressingly tribal.
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Jul 10, 2021 13:09
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Apparently the version with Caecilius in it (the Cambridge Latin Course) is used by 85% of students. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Latin_Course I remember the narrative being pretty gripping, so I can see why it's popular.
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Jul 10, 2021 14:00
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Quick question: Who creates new nobles in the middle ages? Like, if a duke really likes a dude, can he make him a knight and give him a fief? Or can only the king do that?
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Jul 10, 2021 14:30
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We had Caecilius and Friends over here in my US high school Latin classes too, FWIW
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Jul 10, 2021 15:36
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feedmegin posted:There's more than one UK Latin course, though. Mine (and we're around the same age, close enough) began That's Ecce Romani which I think is primarily used in North America. You're forgetting the part where Sextus gets assaulted by a poor in Rome, possibly the greatest textbook illustration of all time.
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Jul 10, 2021 17:25
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Mycroft Holmes posted:Quick question: Who creates new nobles in the middle ages? Like, if a duke really likes a dude, can he make him a knight and give him a fief? Or can only the king do that? Yes, and no, in that order. And there's a third option: Chutzpa and moxie can create a new noble, just by sheer weight of your brazen balls and your ability to hold out against older nobles trying to displace you from your new lands. To drag out an actual example, originally the town I grew up in, Nienburg (Germany), was ruled by an old line of counts, the Counts of Hoya. Their line famously was started by some guy with a lot of gold (speculation, not proven) coming down from Frisia and building his own castle on land nominally under the control of the Duke of Celle. The Friese (the Frisian) as he is only known, got thwarted repeatedly by the local nobles laying siege and breaking down his attempts at building a castle. But eventually he managed to find a good, defensible place and finish his castle before the Duke got wind of and could raise another army again. This time, the siege failed and instead of continuing this feud, the Duke of Celle instead accepted an oath of fealty, making this unknown guy an official count, who then became the first Count of Hoya. Invading a piece of land not yet claimed by local nobles/killing the nobles living there and replacing them could also give you a noble title. Bonus points if you killed/converted heathens during this.
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Jul 10, 2021 18:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That's Ecce Romani which I think is primarily used in North America. You're forgetting the part where Sextus gets assaulted by a poor in Rome, possibly the greatest textbook illustration of all time. I have not forgotten the baculum scelesti  Edit: 'stercus, s6ercus, morituris sum! feedmegin fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 22:39
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Libluini posted:Invading a piece of land not yet claimed by local nobles/killing the nobles living there and replacing them could also give you a noble title. Bonus points if you killed/converted heathens during this. 1,000 Years of Proud History of Squatters Rights 
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Jul 10, 2021 23:12
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91 y/o Korean War Veteran. (It's also Ugly in the Morning helping him with forum UI and whatnot.) Supply clerk draftee. Any questions you have about the war?
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Jul 11, 2021 14:28
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PFC James McGinty posted:91 y/o Korean War Veteran. Happy to have you here! Thanks for being willing to tell a bunch of nerds on the internet about your experiences. So here's some opening questions - How long were you in Korea? Where were you stationed? Any particularly fond or funny memories of the area or the people you served with?
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Jul 11, 2021 14:47
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What was the travel to Korea like? how were your interactions with the South Korean and other nations armies?
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Jul 11, 2021 14:53
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SeanBeansShako posted:What was the travel to Korea like? how were your interactions with the South Korean and other nations armies? He talked about the travel from Korea like a hundred pages ago: quote:
He seriously has gotten into this thread and the whole thing that the most interesting part of milhist is the people that weren’t on the front lines.
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Jul 11, 2021 15:21
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Okay another question, for the Clerk duties did you get new stuff from the US or had to improvise with what was at hand?
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Jul 11, 2021 16:19
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A background question: In Korea, did the army still do individual replacements, or were units rotated as units?
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Jul 11, 2021 16:24
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SeanBeansShako posted:Okay another question, for the Clerk duties did you get new stuff from the US or had to improvise with what was at hand? SeanBeansShako posted:What was the travel to Korea like? how were your interactions with the South Korean and other nations armies? Spacewolf posted:A background question: In Korea, did the army still do individual replacements, or were units rotated as units? I was in Tague I didn't like my sergeant (he was okay but....he wasn't a people person) getting to korea: basic training fort jackson SC, given orders to go to San Francisco by train, then got on the ship (I have pics) it was a converted freighter turned into a troop transport. We stopped in Adak AK to refuel...then went on a five mile hike during this stop, then to Japan (not sure where...yokohama maybe) put on another ship to Inchon So Korea, one night here with lots of small planes flying overhead dropping hand grenades. Next morning train to Tague. We reported to Tague military command. Assigned to a tin hut at the railroad tracks. We were introduced to the korean workers who loaded and unloaded incoming and outgoing freight. 2 shifts of korean help (12 hours each) trains came in the day and night (2 times for freight) but ambulance trains would go through throughout the day. Of note, if south koreans were injured at all they were discharged so there were alot of "shot in the foot" injuries...Americans however, went back in to battle Command would give them the supplies they needed for clerk duties. As for interactions with other armies, it was mostly British that would come by for supplies. They were the only foreign military in Tague. We had such a good relationship, I got in trouble one time! as one british was being sent back I was invited to the farewell party, we picked him up and on the way back at 2am we all got stopped by the MPs and it was past curfew. I got reprimanded by the officer in charge (to whom I failed to salute) for not saluting and being out past curfew....no further punishment. I made friends with alot of the british soldiers that came by for shipments.
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Jul 11, 2021 16:32
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Fantastic, thank you for the reply.
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Jul 11, 2021 16:33
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Mostly Korea was boring....I ate with the railroad crew at their mess hall on the other side of the freight yard (which meant I had to cross over ALL the tracks) The shower was on this side of the tracks too. It was so cold in the winter the inside of the showers would ice up (but, thatwas okay cuz the guys on the front line didn't even have showers). there was a public restroom across the tracks, guys with oxcarts would come along and "scoop" out the "fertilizer" one christmas, a lieutenant went to Pusan and came back with a whole bunch of booze, so we celebrated a very merry christmas!! one really cold winter night, I was awakened by the sound of what sounded like a child crying. there was a young boy, about 8 years old, poorly clothed and freezing so I took him inside to warm up and then I decided to recloth him and ordered a complete set of clothes from a store in chicago. he was dressed warmly and stayed with us (he slept on the floor with a blanket) he was still there at our station when I left. All in all I had a cushy job with nothing much to do, most of the time boring
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Jul 11, 2021 16:40
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when I came home for my mother's funeral, I was in an accident in white plains (hit a tree) and I hadn't slept in 3 or 4 days....the hospital in white plains notified the army and the army sent an ambulance (not like a modern one, picture a funeral car) to bring me to Governors Island military hospital. while in the ambulance Iasked for a cigarette ((?????!!!!!) but I had a punctured lung, broke 6 ribs and a collarbone.
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Jul 11, 2021 16:51
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How did you pass time? Reading, playing cards, sleeping?
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Jul 11, 2021 17:17
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Is there anything you regret doing (or not doing) while in South Korea? Have you ever had a desire to go back since your service? (Assuming you havent)
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Jul 11, 2021 17:20
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