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The Iron Rose posted:they are two radically different books doing radically different things, with radically different writing styles. Fire Caste is unquestionably better... but it's also unquestionably better than most 40k fiction. I’m listening to the Lords of Silence audiobook and, like, it’s slow and plodding and methodical and that’s probably on purpose, but I’m like 5 chapters in and I can’t name a single character or what’s going on. Like I can describe small vignettes but I’ve got no idea what the overarching plot is. I even started it over from the top and I still don’t know. Am I just an idiot? How does Fire Caste compare to the Fire Warrior game novelization by Simon Spurrier? The game was middling to bad, but I thought the book was loving great and radically better than the game.
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Jul 9, 2021 22:21
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Kevin DuBrow posted:I was reading the Cawl hacking scene from The Great Work and it struck me how similar cyberspace battles and psychic battles are written in 40k. When psykers fight, it's often written that they focus their energy onto a psychic construct like a shark or something and you have an imaginary shark and imaginary eagle bite and claw at each other. In infosphere battles the security system is described as sending spiteful data genies and building cyber walls. It's all a bit silly but not badly written. Spiteful Data Genie is probably the name on some ransomware irl.
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Jul 9, 2021 22:45
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Kevin DuBrow posted:I was reading the Cawl hacking scene from The Great Work and it struck me how similar cyberspace battles and psychic battles are written in 40k. When psykers fight, it's often written that they focus their energy onto a psychic construct like a shark or something and you have an imaginary shark and imaginary eagle bite and claw at each other. In infosphere battles the security system is described as sending spiteful data genies and building cyber walls. It's all a bit silly but not badly written. AFAICT the noosphere is basically an attempt to imitate some beneficial aspects of the warp mashed up with cyberpunk style netrunning. There's the whole thing during the heresy when noospheric networks can conduct the light of the astronomicon and so the data-plagues and whatnot don't wreck up the forges that were using the tech when the Dark Mechanicus made their move. So, it actually makes a lot of sense, sorta, to have psyker and cyber battles be basically the same.
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Jul 9, 2021 23:28
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Also, blended Tech/Psyker (Psyber) stuff is already in several places in the canon.
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Jul 9, 2021 23:58
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Kevin DuBrow posted:I was reading the Cawl hacking scene from The Great Work and it struck me how similar cyberspace battles and psychic battles are written in 40k. When psykers fight, it's often written that they focus their energy onto a psychic construct like a shark or something and you have an imaginary shark and imaginary eagle bite and claw at each other. In infosphere battles the security system is described as sending spiteful data genies and building cyber walls. It's all a bit silly but not badly written.
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Jul 10, 2021 00:17
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Xenomrph posted:I’m listening to the Lords of Silence audiobook and, like, it’s slow and plodding and methodical and that’s probably on purpose, but I’m like 5 chapters in and I can’t name a single character or what’s going on. Like I can describe small vignettes but I’ve got no idea what the overarching plot is. I even started it over from the top and I still don’t know. Am I just an idiot? It's significantly better. It focuses on an IG regiment sent to a swampy hellhole to fight a meatgrinder war against the Tau.
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Jul 10, 2021 06:09
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Xenomrph posted:I’m listening to the Lords of Silence audiobook and, like, it’s slow and plodding and methodical and that’s probably on purpose, but I’m like 5 chapters in and I can’t name a single character or what’s going on. Like I can describe small vignettes but I’ve got no idea what the overarching plot is. I even started it over from the top and I still don’t know. Am I just an idiot? I'd say no, the plot takes a while to get moving, the first half or so (it's been a few years) is basically mood setting and I didn't really latch onto any characters except the warband leader. The writing style is deliberately plodding, which I could appreciate but really didn't enjoy. It is a genuinely well written but of 40k where I think the parts I didn't like were deliberate choices that just didn't work for me rather than bad writing but I'm part of the minority in the thread that didn't like it much. Again not because it's bad but they went for a very strong mood setting that didn't work for me. I don't think there's anything wrong with dropping it but in fairness they do eventually get to the plot.
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Jul 10, 2021 07:49
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Improbable Lobster posted:It's significantly better. It focuses on an IG regiment sent to a swampy hellhole to fight a meatgrinder war against the Tau. Are they supposed to be Space Confederates or just general Space ACW Guard?
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Jul 10, 2021 08:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9L6U1vnwvo Henry Cavill is such a nerd. I knew he was a massive 40K fan but even that blindsided me.
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Jul 10, 2021 14:12
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Z the IVth posted:Are they supposed to be Space Confederates or just general Space ACW Guard? They wear gray coats with caps, have names like Cletus and Obadiah, their elite unit is called the Zouaves, and they're apparently named after Arkansas. I love the guy who blares orchestral music from a voxspeaker on his suit. Kevin DuBrow fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 16:06
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I’m really rather excited for all the people reading Fire Caste, I saw someone mention it in here way back and ended up reading it and really digging it. Even after having been really impressed with recent black library works by many other authors this really stood out to me as something unique in the black library.
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Jul 10, 2021 16:26
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I feel like a bit of a prick saying Godblight is poo poo when some of you enjoy it, so I apologize for that. I just want all of 40k to be on the level of Fire Caste, it’s just dripping with atmosphere. I guess Godblight is a different type of book and is more predictable by nature, I just find it so bland.
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Jul 10, 2021 16:49
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Seems like more of a Guy Haley thing to me. He's never written a bad book, but he's never written a great one either. Nothing on the level of Abentt, ADB or Wraight. He does a great job with with characters like Guillimen and Cawl but his writing is kind of bland and his action scenes are worse.
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Jul 10, 2021 17:15
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Miguel Prado posted:I feel like a bit of a prick saying Godblight is poo poo when some of you enjoy it, so I apologize for that. I just want all of 40k to be on the level of Fire Caste, it’s just dripping with atmosphere. You must have been skipping over the Nurgling scenes. The human characters were [pretty meh, but the assorted demons involved on the other side were terrific. There were at least two scenes involving a Great Unclean One that were straight out of Loony Tunes. e. Arcsquad12 posted:Someone has been taking lessons from Astartes. Possibly literally, the artist has a deal with GW now. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 17:18
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mllaneza posted:You must have been skipping over the Nurgling scenes. The human characters were [pretty meh, but the assorted demons involved on the other side were terrific. There were at least two scenes involving a Great Unclean One that were straight out of Loony Tunes. Fair enough, and maybe the problem is with me but when a great unclean one starts referring to himself as a butler it takes me out of the book. I get that through warp osmosis it knows what a butler is but it’s just kinda lazy to me. It doesn’t have to be grimdark the whole time and I get uneasy reading about the maybe too grimdark demons of “the first heretic”, but somewhere in the middle perhaps. Fire Caste was a wild ride from start to finish, I am really into Peter Fehervari, did anybody read “requiem infernal” or “cult of the spiral dawn”? I thought “the reverie” was fantastic too.
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Jul 10, 2021 17:29
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I found the demon portrayals in Godblight refreshing, more human-like in behaviour and less and prisoners of their nature.
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Jul 10, 2021 17:36
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Sextro posted:I’m really rather excited for all the people reading Fire Caste, I saw someone mention it in here way back and ended up reading it and really digging it. Even after having been really impressed with recent black library works by many other authors this really stood out to me as something unique in the black library. Every single person in this thread should be reading all of Peter Fehervari's books. Especially The Reverie, his most recent which this thread seems to have skipped and was an absolute mindfuck of a book. All his books connect with each other as part of "the dark coil" and it's super good to dive into them all.
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Jul 10, 2021 18:31
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Miguel Prado posted:Fire Caste was a wild ride from start to finish, I am really into Peter Fehervari, did anybody read “requiem infernal” or “cult of the spiral dawn”? I thought “the reverie” was fantastic too. Fehervari is wasted on 40k. The best piece of literature I ever read from BL was The Strange Demise of Titus Endor; second and third are Fire Caste and Requiem Infernal. When I read Abnett, I feel that he has the ability to write good original literature but he's comfortable sticking to the pulp/genre fiction conventions of action scenes, fan favourite characters, etc. When I read Fehervari, I get the impression that the only reason his books have prolonged firefights at all is because GW would not print them otherwise. I want to read his Warhammer Horror stuff because I hope they let him do what he does best under that brand. Strangely enough I can't find anything non-Warhammer written by him.
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Jul 10, 2021 18:33
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Arcsquad12 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9L6U1vnwvo Man i am just completely gay for henry cavill.
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Jul 10, 2021 18:42
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D-Pad posted:Every single person in this thread should be reading all of Peter Fehervari's books. Especially The Reverie, his most recent which this thread seems to have skipped and was an absolute mindfuck of a book. All of his poo poo is so good, I'm so glad more people are jumping on his books
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Jul 11, 2021 04:21
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The Angels Resplendant weren't perfect, certainly, but I'm So Mad about what happened to them, and I hope Cervantes comes back to set things right. (He's not going to because this is 40k)
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Jul 11, 2021 05:10
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Iron Warriors LE next weekend 
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Jul 11, 2021 23:44
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Is that a new book or repackaged Graham McNeill?
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Jul 12, 2021 00:17
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Ego-bot posted:Is that a new book or repackaged Graham McNeill? Re packaged but it's proper gorgeous and I love my irony boys
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Jul 12, 2021 00:27
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von Metternich posted:The Angels Resplendant weren't perfect, certainly, but I'm So Mad about what happened to them, and I hope Cervantes comes back to set things right. (He's not going to because this is 40k) I just want something good to happen to somebody
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Jul 12, 2021 01:15
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NihilCredo posted:Strangely enough I can't find anything non-Warhammer written by him. Doesn't he do TV or something?
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Jul 12, 2021 02:06
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Read Red Tithe and Outer Dark over vacation this past week and they fuckin' rule, Carcharadons are such motherfuckers but I love them. EDIT: They're pretty much a chapter who think they have the equivalent of an Inquisitorial edict. Inspector_666 fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 02:44
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SkyeAuroline posted:Doesn't he do TV or something? Yeah but I can't imagine how he could have got his foot in the door at BL with zero published writing to show.
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Jul 12, 2021 10:16
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Nepotism is always an option 
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Jul 12, 2021 10:53
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SkyeAuroline posted:Doesn't he do TV or something? It could be connections, it could be that he's an established author writing under a pen-name. Some authors do that for licensed fiction as they don't get to own what they write, as is the case for Black Library work.
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Jul 12, 2021 12:44
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How is Graham McNeill, overall? People mention him a lot less than they used to when talking about their favorite authors. I personally wasn't too taken with False Gods and Fulgrim.
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Jul 12, 2021 13:01
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FPyat posted:How is Graham McNeill, overall? People mention him a lot less than they used to when talking about their favorite authors. I personally wasn't too taken with False Gods and Fulgrim. Middling to poor. He's done some good stuff, but not a lot of it.
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Jul 12, 2021 13:08
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He’s always been bad OP
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Jul 12, 2021 13:16
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I read Mechanicum, A Thousand Sons, and Prospero Burns back to back to back. The first two (GM) had lots of good lore and revelations that were entertaining, but at the same time they just plodded along for me. I didn't read them very quickly. Both of them seemed like they were trying to do the Abnett/ADB thing I usually really enjoy, where the wild insanity of the 40k/30k setting are experienced through the reality of normal type characters caught up in things, but I just couldn't get invested in those characters. Then I stepped into Prospero Burns, in the middle of a viking raid on an ice planet that seemed to have gently caress all to do with anything plot relevant at the moment, and Abnett had me again. I loved that book and the main character and his experiences were really interesting. I tore through that one. All that is to say I wish GM were better. I can't point my finger at exactly why he isn't, but I also don't want to just drag him. I wonder how important he is to the lore development overall behind the scenes and how much credit he deserves even if his writing falls short sometimes.
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Jul 12, 2021 13:43
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Ego-bot posted:Seems like more of a Guy Haley thing to me. He's never written a bad book, but he's never written a great one either. Nothing on the level of Abentt, ADB or Wraight. He does a great job with with characters like Guillimen and Cawl but his writing is kind of bland and his action scenes are worse. Flesh and Steel, his Warhammer Crime novel, is somewhere between pretty solid and good. There are some nice details in it, like Noctis have a cat (In the far future of the 41st millenium, cats are still cats) or Varangantua having the 40k equivalent to an English suburb. Not to mention a pretty cool AdMech Magos as well. Plot is a bit so and so but a lot of the side stuff is good.
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Jul 12, 2021 15:23
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For me GM is just not a great writer, for whatever reason I always bounce of his stuff emotionally and I just cant seem to connect with or care about what happens to his charmless characters. I’ve read a few of his books now and for me the only one that really landed was Storm of Iron. He’s not terrible, just bland IMO.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:31
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VanSandman posted:It could be connections, it could be that he's an established author writing under a pen-name. Some authors do that for licensed fiction as they don't get to own what they write, as is the case for Black Library work. It's clearly a JK Rowling/Stephen King collaboration*.  *One word at a time alternating words. Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 17:06
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Yeah as much as I love the Iron Warriors, I'm starting to struggle to justify buying his LE this weekend because... no use in having a pretty book if the contents suck. I got burnt on that with the Indomitus LE...
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Jul 12, 2021 18:14
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:He’s always been bad OP Every chapter has to end with some kind of badass one liner and it's so grating
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Jul 12, 2021 18:31
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Storm of Iron is the first 40k book I ever read, when I was 15 or so. I liked it a lot then. I think a lot of people had a similar experience. The book isn't great, but it's readable; it plays to McNeill's strengths. Graham McNeill can write a passable action scene, although he's missing something Abnett has: a keen insight into the experiences of the people involved. Abnett writes extremely explosive, visceral combat, but he also writes action scenes in a variety of different ways: some more descriptive, some less, some very matter-of-fact, some colorful and chaotic. What makes his action scenes interesting to read is that he gives you a sense of how the people involved are feeling, what they're experiencing, so it's not just like looking at a painting or a photo of a battle. Outside of action, McNeill's books fall flat very quickly. His dialogue is very wooden and his sentence construction is strange. He uses a lot of commas to link clauses that really should be separate sentences, or at least linked in a more interesting and dynamic way. His characters all sound the same, which once you notice it is impossible to unsee; Honsou, Uriel Ventris, and Lemuel Gaumon all basically talk the same way, even if the content is different. He is incredibly heavy-handed with metaphor and his emotional arcs tend towards intense melodrama. Scenes like the death of Kallista Eris or the climax of The Killing Ground should have been strong tragic payoffs, but they end up feeling like something out a cheap soap opera because he doesn't trust his reader to have an honest emotional reaction and just trowels on pathos and portentous nonsense. Compare those to scenes like the death of Vamberfeld at the climax of Honor Guard, the Beati's message in Sabbat Martyr, or Mkoll and Eszrah's daeda waeg in Only in Death. In all three of the latter, Abnett is very economical with language-- in Sabbat Martyr, it's totally direct and matter-of-fact-- but the result is an intensely emotional scene because he's put in the effort and laid the groundwork. McNeill, by contrast, rushes through the "boring" work of making us care about the characters and breathing life into them, in favor of more explosions and little prophecies and easter eggs that enfranchised fans can recognize and feel clever about. I feel that the only McNeill book that really shows flashes of genius is Fulgrim, and even that book is bloated and overlong. I don't care for the prose but Painting Fulgrim is a cool idea, and the relationship between Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus actually seemed well realized. Of course he undid the former in The Reflection Crack'd, which is execrable in every way. I get that writing is hard, and genre fiction is often held to lower standards than other types of fiction (especially tie in genre fiction), but it really shouldn't be. Abnett, Wraight, ADB and Farrer all have published books that are genuinely moving: sad, funny, triumphant, solemn, reflective, whatever. There's something there, some soul. I don't get that with McNeill works so I basically just skip 'em these days. Also the Knight pilot in Mechanicum delivering a terrible action movie quip at the climax is the stupidest single thing I've ever read in any 40k book, ever.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:35
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