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Thoom posted:Is there any design constraint that requires players to use unsafe moves? And if not, how do you take a turn against someone who exclusively strings together safe moves? no they dont have to use unsafe moves but they have to end their block strings/frame traps eventually which lets you reset positioning by jumping or dashing out or YRC or faultless defense pushblocking. there's no infinite block strings that just keep you in the vortex forever
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Jul 14, 2021 19:12
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx8RNVFnPG4 Mind games
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Jul 14, 2021 19:16
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There's stuff that's a lot more safe than other strings and pokes but you usually have a couple of options of how to respond. You can frequently block low or jump over things when near the end of a character's block strings, unless they're going for an overhead and then you block high. Many of these strings can be beaten by a quick jab at the right time, 5P and 5K, 2P and 2K, a defensive RC with or without drifting. Of course you also have to learn when you can't do that because of what follow up moves can come out too fast, for example Ky's slide kick that immediately follows up with a slash. You can learn about this stuff by looking up frame data and such but I always had an easier time learning and remembering through experience and that's just kind of the name of the game. And if you end up jumping out of a thing you have to know what you can do immediately after that jump in order to retaliate and take your turn back or otherwise get out of range through air dashing or some other movement option. All of this knowledge gets mixed in with reading your opponent during any individual match, figuring out what they like to do and responding in kind.MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:the only way you're gonna find out is by looking up characters and seeing what's unsafe for them It's worth noting that Faust's big stab and grab can also be 6P'd, it's kind of dangerous for him to do if you can react to the somewhat slow startup before the quick long range poke. For Zato it's also really handy to figure out when you can quickly, and safely, smack Eddie and cancel out whatever pressure or angle the shadow is trying to approach from. Zato/Eddie pressure can be really messy but I often see Zato's go in to a very slight panic when you deny their Eddie pressure.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:23
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FunkyFjord posted:For Zato it's also really handy to figure out when you can quickly, and safely, smack Eddie and cancel out whatever pressure or angle the shadow is trying to approach from. You can smack Eddie? I thought it was just this invulnerable secondary attack vehicle.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:25
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:You can smack Eddie? I thought it was just this invulnerable secondary attack vehicle. yeah then the eddie gauge has gotta refill and while that's going on you can get in zato's dumb face and yell at him or whatev
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Jul 14, 2021 19:28
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I mean you shouldn't, he's a good shadow boy who's been through enough, but yeah you can pop him. If you never do and the Zato player realizes it they can spend less time covering Eddie and more time setting you up for the wombo combo.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:29
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note that you should not smack eddie when he's slowly moving forward, waving a ton of arms. eddie has armor then and will make you sad
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Jul 14, 2021 19:36
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Do zatos drills hit low? I was crouch blocking them and ate a giant toad overhead just now and im thinking they are just mid and im dumb
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Jul 14, 2021 19:38
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Also for some reason Xrd doesn't have Rollback netcode on PC although GGXX: AC, the game from 2006 does. I personally dunno if people are still playing AC on Steam but that's a much harder game to get into at this point +R has rollback because it's a game from 2006. It's much easier to staple rollback on after the fact when a game is so low-spec that you can just run it normally at 20x speed whenever you need to resimulate rollback frames. For a more graphically-intensive game like Xrd you actually need to do some engine re-designing to separate the gameplay logic from the expensive 3d graphics part, so you can simulate just the gameplay for rollback without exploding your gpu trying to run the 3d graphics engine at 1200 fps. That's also why there are rollback netplay casters for games like Melty Blood or Super Turbo.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:42
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Real hurthling! posted:Do zatos drills hit low? I was crouch blocking them and ate a giant toad overhead just now and im thinking they are just mid and im dumb Frog and drill are both mid.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:43
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Im just psyching myself out i guess. Probably blocked too high and got jump when the frog came at me
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Jul 14, 2021 19:44
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Real hurthling! posted:Do zatos drills hit low? I was crouch blocking them and ate a giant toad overhead just now and im thinking they are just mid and im dumb no but that weird circle does hit low
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Jul 14, 2021 19:45
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hosed up how Zato has two separate drill moves but the special that used to be a drill in xrd is now more of a sawblade puddle and the eddie normal that used to be a spinning sawblade in xrd is now a bunch of drills
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Jul 14, 2021 19:46
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MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:no but that weird circle does hit low 22H is also mid.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:51
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yeah zato has no ranged moves that hit high or low and eddie has no moves at all that do.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:55
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:You can smack Eddie? I thought it was just this invulnerable secondary attack vehicle. hi heres more nago advice if you want w/r/t the matches you posted. ill try to keep it quick to the most important things offense: 1) i think you use specials too much out of frustration/impatience/boredom and that leads to big problems because 1) you are popping a lot 2) your opp knows you want to command grab which makes your mixup much worse 3) when you get big hits you cant follow up or else you'll pop. theres some nuance to this because there are also lots of advantages to having 1 or 2 bars vs ky but try to budget your specials way more--its ok to sit mid screen and patiently wait dont feel rushed to spin at people who are waiting for you. you can trick people into jumping at you etc by walking back and forth and whiffing something fast like 5p 2) a big HUUUUUUGE mega important thing you can do with 0 nuance and will exponentially improve your game almost immediately is to spend 10 minutes figuring out combo continuations off common counterhits like 2S and 214H and ESPECIALLY(!!!!!!!!!!!!) 2H. counter hit 2H can and should lead to like 30-50% damage and corner carry using little to no blood. there were lots of times you lost rounds you could have already won if you knew common combo routes to things like counterhit 2H 3) vs faust imo 5S is a poo poo terrible no good button that he will low profile or jump and gently caress you for using so in general try to use 2S instead. vs both faust and especially zato its v important once you get a knockdown to dash into their face and make them die. zato has slow normals and no reversal and when cornered vs nago has literally no option but to eat his poo poo as long as you arent spamming specials so frame trap with things like 6H and 5K and 6K and 2S and 5SS dash etc until hes so afraid of pressing buttons you can throw him 10 times in a row. a big thing is to not get baited into 5Sing oppose (zatos thing where eddie stands up and has squiggly arms) 4) in general you are dashing like 30 frames slower than you should be after landing normals. its very important as nago to know the timing of fukyo so you can continue your pressure as soon as a normal is landed (even when its blocked). idk if this is a reaction thing or if you just arent aware but you can cancel your recovery into fukyo sooner than you are doing in a lot of these clips. 5) try not to jump in so much defense: this post is too long but in short imo pressing fewer buttons and fding people away/using yrc will pay dividends for you immediately. as a beginner imo its better to let people get away with an unsafe things here and there rather than getting counterhit 5000 times for trying to jab. over time you'll get a better understanding for when you can mash/when its your turn. with ky jumping sometimes 6p isnt the answer and its better to either 5P (this button is much much faster) if the spacing is right or just block. sometimes blocking is best. lots of times you were trying to read with 6p and getting counterhit where if you just blocked his jump in you'd be totally fine. here is a video of hotashi (high level nago) playing ky for a million matches talking out loud about his decisions i hope you find it useful. please copy all of his combos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awQNW1iJjKE
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Jul 14, 2021 20:33
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Thanks for all of this, it's real valuable. I'll do my best to internalize it - I know some of it deep down, it's hard to keep your mind on it in-game though. I've been watching a few of Hotashi's videos, actually! It's good stuff, dude seems to know what he's doing. Hadn't seen that particular video yet.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:37
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punch the frog
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Jul 14, 2021 20:38
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Thanks for all of this, it's real valuable. I'll do my best to internalize it - I know some of it deep down, it's hard to keep your mind on it in-game though. I've been watching a few of Hotashi's videos, actually! It's good stuff, dude seems to know what he's doing. Hadn't seen that particular video yet. I just want to chime in again to say you're doing it. You're still here, learning and improving. There is no way to fight someone like Zato=1 and not be confused and frustrated when you don't get what the hell the character is even doing. But your matchup knowledge and familiarity is growing. And you'll find that your choices are faster and stronger after having played more than 50 Zato=1's than when you'd fought less than 25 of them. Also, what program are you using to make your videos? I played a bunch of matches out in the park last night and bookmarked a few of my favorite losses for review, I want to make a little compilation vid of my I-no failures. but I haven't actually done any video editing in years.
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Jul 14, 2021 21:10
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brainSnakes posted:Also, what program are you using to make your videos? I played a bunch of matches out in the park last night and bookmarked a few of my favorite losses for review, I want to make a little compilation vid of my I-no failures. but I haven't actually done any video editing in years. I record the replays with OBS (all in one go), then use Avidemux to cut out the unwanted bits. I used to use VirtualDub2, but I've been having trouble lately with it not picking up the audio in parts of the video for some reason? Plus, Avidemux gets the job done and has a simpler interface, so it's less work to get her done. One thing to note is that you probably aren't going to be able to cut on keyframes exactly, so be prepared to re-encode. It does mean a quality loss but for what is essentially video-based shitposting it's fine enough. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 21:12
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This is a really late response to a post from yesterday and technically I did spend time in previous matches conditioning this guy with overheads, but no, people absolutely do not default to blocking low: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az9K9SShMc4 Goddamn it was refreshing to fight a Sol after all those Gios and Rams.
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Jul 14, 2021 21:13
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If a player is endlessly stringing together safe moves and you're sitting there blocking forever this means that there's a gap you're not aware of. There's a difference between a move that is safe and resets neutral vs a move that is safe and leaves the attacker at advantage. Here's an Anji example. After Fuujin, he has 4 followups. Sweep, hop, overhead, and projectile. I'll go over sweep vs projectile. Sweep is safe in the sense that he can almost always end Fuujin with it without worrying about being punished. However this also means that he's given up frame advantage and both players are dealing with neutral and should take the appropriate action based on range. His fan projectile is plus and leaves Anji at slight advantage which means that if the defender blocks it, they need to wait for their turn. But therein lies the solution, it takes a while for Anji to jump and throw the fan so this can be avoided by jumping out if the defender knows it's coming. Generally, to avoid being frame trapped endlessly the solution is to avoid the attack by either dodging it or poking them out of doing it in the first place. The latter is very scary if you don't know that you can but that's part of improving play.
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Jul 14, 2021 21:16
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Actually if they have Positive Bonus there are some characters who really can do DBFZ-style 30-second gapless blockstrings because they build enough meter each iteration to PRC and start the blockstring all over again. Chipp can do this for sure and my friend says ram/gio/millia can too? https://twitter.com/RizeKuSa/status/1412917717812842505 Lets you max your opponent's RISC meter for free plus it's really funny RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 21:43
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Pockyless posted:22H is also mid. weird i was so sure i was getting hit low by that
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Jul 14, 2021 21:46
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Actually if they have Positive Bonus there are some characters who really can do DBFZ-style 30-second gapless blockstrings because they build enough meter each iteration to PRC and start the blockstring all over again. I've definitely seen Gio do this. I already regularly gently caress up knowing when to try and take my turn back against Gio but I've definitely seen her get into Positive Bonus and just keep her turn going with PRCs until I gently caress up and die. (Or get my Psych Burst back, or remember that YRC is a thing, etc.) unimportantguy fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 21:52
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Well, something is working - I got matched with a Ky whose name I recognize, and this time I actually won two matches in a row. Trying to be more conservative on 214H and getting better at blocking his high attacks has helped a lot. As an unrelated side note, the Potemkin vs. Nago experience is something else. Actually timed out several times. It's fun though, somehow. Both sides trying to bait the other into doing something stupid and chipping away at their giant health bars...
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Jul 14, 2021 22:08
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Actually if they have Positive Bonus there are some characters who really can do DBFZ-style 30-second gapless blockstrings because they build enough meter each iteration to PRC and start the blockstring all over again. i wonder if you can fd it and make the 2H whiff
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Jul 14, 2021 22:28
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Actually if they have Positive Bonus there are some characters who really can do DBFZ-style 30-second gapless blockstrings because they build enough meter each iteration to PRC and start the blockstring all over again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrEPtpbvpUo Here's Ram's, including a section on how to counter it - FD it to push her away.
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Jul 14, 2021 22:44
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Kinda silly that people are claiming """infinite""" blockstrings in a game where YRC and FD both exist
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Jul 14, 2021 23:07
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dhamster posted:Kinda silly that people are claiming """infinite""" blockstrings in a game where YRC and FD both exist well to be fair if you get put into the corner by ram before you have any meter or you fail to escape once with a YRC then you're going to be either blocking for a long time with very little meter or getting hit by something and getting a little more meter that way. Theoretically you could build up meter faster by IBing, or even IFDing(!!) but that is a tall order actually i don't know how much meter you gain with IB in this game or whether you even net any with IFD anyway
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Jul 15, 2021 03:28
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BurningBeard posted:Would rather have gotten Granblue Vs. honestly, since it seems a bit more my style, but lol at that price and $30 for each season’s characters. Yeah, don't. I wanted to like GBFV and honestly it plays OK, but the netcode is absolutely abysmal and even on the PS4 (which would have the bulk of the playerbase since that's the only version with codes for the gacha) the lobbies are dead. It could have some life to it if they added rollback but I don't see that happening.
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Jul 15, 2021 04:44
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went to my local and played my roommates vip millia rd1 which i was 99% to lose and then bopped 2 terribles in losers and lost my third game to another millia. it is very hard for me to deal with millia pressure as gio. once i get into the vortex idk how to get out, i feel like i get meaty'd if i try to jump out and even if i jab my way out of a 2x overhead from her i dont have many places to go to start locking her down. when millia plays someone w invincible dp she has to be way more careful and idk how to compensate obviously i need to block better and read her pressure better but then im like... now what
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Jul 15, 2021 05:36
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They made you play your roommate round 1? Can you tell your TO you carpooled together so you don't end up playing your friends in bracket?
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Jul 15, 2021 06:35
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Reiley posted:They made you play your roommate round 1? Can you tell your TO you carpooled together so you don't end up playing your friends in bracket? yea we could have, and they said as much after, but i don't care too much so we ran that poo poo anyway
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Jul 15, 2021 07:01
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unimportantguy posted:I was in training earlier working on the execution and effective range of Overhead Kiss and how to follow up on it, and I accidentally came up with a combo when I hosed up the inputs on my followup. I was kind of proud of it, but looking at it now after working on it a bit I feel like it might be a waste of meter? i was scrolled back but you can literally just do 5H xx H horizontal dolphin over and over again and get a easy high damage combo without having to spend anything
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Jul 15, 2021 07:13
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Hace posted:i was scrolled back but you can literally just do 5H xx H horizontal dolphin over and over again and get a easy high damage combo without having to spend anything Yeah that was discussed when I originally posted it. Speaking of which I owe the horizontal dolphin loop an apology. It's way more fun to do than I gave it credit for and I often end up dropping it before the wall break from laughing too hard.
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Jul 15, 2021 07:31
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I've been working on Fukyo > Bloodsucking Universe because I keep whiffing it for reasons I'm not entirely clear on; I think I'm getting the inputs right, but there must be some timing issue. I get the normal 6P instead of Bloodsucking Universe for the same sequence of inputs sometimes: I read the dustloop article on Nago a few times but nothing in the descriptions of either ability sticks out here. Clearly I am capable of throwing out moves since 6P (or 2P) comes out, the question is why that move and not the one I wanted? Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 15:13
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I've been working on Fukyo > Bloodsucking Universe because I keep whiffing it for reasons I'm not entirely clear on; I think I'm getting the inputs right, but there must be some timing issue. I get the normal 6P instead of Bloodsucking Universe for the same sequence of inputs sometimes: It looks like you're doing 236P instead of 623P. Bloodsucking universe is 623P (forward, down, down+forward).
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Jul 15, 2021 15:28
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dprk -i juche.deb posted:It looks like you're doing 236P instead of 623P. Bloodsucking universe is 623P (forward, down, down+forward). As mentioned, the same sequence of inputs does produce Bloodsucking Universe most of the time. The last 6 for Fukyo counts as part of the next input as well. The system is (typically?) lenient enough to not care about the extra 6 at the end - like the top five inputs minus the X alone is Bloodsucking Universe 100% of the time.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:31
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:As mentioned, the same sequence of inputs does produce Bloodsucking Universe most of the time. The last 6 for Fukyo counts as part of the next input as well. You're not ending the motion on 3, though, you're moving all the way to 6, then hitting the button. You should hit the button at the same time as you hit 3, and it will be more consistent.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:33
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