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Chariots are bugged and so useless. You don't *need* to defend your home base as beastmen. You can get a tiny global bonus from a herdstone, but it's tiny. Just keep moving and forget about the dust behind you. Manticores seem better than harpies to me, but my experience is limited.
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Jul 18, 2021 03:45
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The Lone Badger posted:Chariots are bugged and so useless. Sweet, thanks. Are centigors any good as cavalry? They seem to get mulched really quickly. I’m used to playing the undead factions, so I’m not used to dealing with bringing routed units back into the fight. Also what’s the deal with great weapons? Do they deal splash damage? It seems like I do better with shields.
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Jul 18, 2021 04:11
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Great Weapons are anti-armour. Shields give a bit of melee survivability and a chunk of ranged resistance. Spears are anti-large.
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Jul 18, 2021 04:14
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Sounds like the Marks of Ruination are coming to you! huh, i'll give that a try. i guess i just assumed that somewhere had to be ruins when the ritual went off for it to be un-colonisable. does anyone know which the best minotaurs are? they all seem good but i am leaning towards shields because they get hosed least by ranged
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Jul 18, 2021 04:18
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IMO shields for general use, great weapon for loving up monsters and other hard targets. Put that +50% weapon strength banner on for great hilarity. You can have multiple of this banner per army.
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Jul 18, 2021 04:27
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Shield Minotaurs are probably the best overall because they have a silver shield and a ton of melee defence. I tend to prefer the great weapon minotaurs because they're absolute wrecking balls against cavalry but that's mainly for Khazrak since he's gonna be in bretonnia a lot. The dual axe minotaurs are better infantry killers than the other two but they don't have the same staying power so they're a bit less effective overall. They each fill roles, but some roles can be filled by other units for variety. Shields are good line units, GW are your cavalry killers and dual axe are your flankers. Apply alternate units depending on which flavor of murder cow you want to main.
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Jul 18, 2021 04:29
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Alright so auto resolve with orgres is really loving dumb atm and is kinda making my thorek campaign a pain in the rear end. Some minor ork faction had some and forced me to manually fight like 9 battles in a row with less than 100 lost each time even though auto resolve said i massively lost each battle. I also found out that the RoR grudge thrower gob lobber becomes broken with exploding runes, literally the projectiles stop doing damage and constantly overshoot. It's funny because thoreks passive gives them homing runes rather than exploding making me think a CA tester realized this problem. The chained carnosaur is pretty goddamn nuts though, 75 speed fear+terror with rune support can be absurd.
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Jul 18, 2021 04:58
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juggalo baby coffin posted:khazrak is definitely a more challenging beastmen campaign than taurox. you start in an area with 100 factions who all constantly recolonise the ruins you make before you can set your ritual off. Don't worry about backcappers. In fact, they can help you out by giving you more Marks when you get back around to them. I got up to around 160 Marks on Bastonne this way. Then you complete your ritual and re-raze everything one final time and they can't be recolonised. Fighting and razing Brettonia so much led to me having +600 relations with Rakarth before I killed him because I needed Marienburg.
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Jul 18, 2021 05:02
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The Gunslinger posted:Yeah I don't think some people get that the cavalry thing is a bug and a pretty severe one. I lost a good chunk of dragon princes charging into a single clan rat unit that wasn't braced. I was microing other units and when I looked back entities were already gone. You can issue a retreat order and if only a few units are left in combat you still take unit/entity damage as if they all are. That can't be intentional. There's basically no reason to recruit one except flanking artillery and you're probably better off doing that with a hero or anything else that won't get dumpstered the second anything touches it. its actually a collision bug that got fixed that caused this. charge damage wasnt being properly applied in some cases; it got noticed with the great stag knights, fixed, and now the problem is that it turns out 24 attacks versus 75-120 attacks has predictable results
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Jul 18, 2021 05:20
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The mechanics of large units confuse the hell out of me. Like the reason heavy cavalry and war sphinxes and chariots mulch light infantry isn't because they have high charge bonuses and splash attacks right? Isn't it basically all impact damage on the charge?
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Jul 18, 2021 05:41
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cav own in sieges if they last beyond just the walls, which some faction set ups and particularly heavily defended cities will do. if you're worried about them getting sniped while they're useless just... sit them in the back? towers don't shoot that far, lmao
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Jul 18, 2021 06:04
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Mercrom posted:The mechanics of large units confuse the hell out of me. Like the reason heavy cavalry and war sphinxes and chariots mulch light infantry isn't because they have high charge bonuses and splash attacks right? Isn't it basically all impact damage on the charge? Not really. There were some bugs that were causing large, high mass units to overperform compared to what their statlines would indicate. 1. Knockdown checks were made each frame; large units tend to have high mass, so when they collided with small ones, even if the small ones didn't get bowled over, another check would be made the very next frame, resulting in small units getting knocked over a lot more often than they should have. This was a huge problem with some single entity monsters, whose animations included knockdown checks; any time the small units would try to fight back, they'd get bowled over again, even if the large unit wasn't actually hitting anyone, because knockdown checks were made independently of attack checks. This was fixed by making knockdown checks only be applied once per interval so small units were a lot more resilient to getting blasted over. 2. Some bug was resulting in charge damage just vanishing. This seemed to apply to units that were having to make knockdown checks, but also applied to great stag knights for some reason. I'm guessing that there's something wonky with animations tied to attacks, because those are always a source of weird edge case poo poo. This got fixed a bit ago. 3. Units have to perform animations to do attacks, which requires being in the right spot, and some matchups the large unit would just push the small units around or had collision boxes that overlapped with the positions that the small units had to stand to actually swing at them. This, in conjunction with the first bug, would result in small units not actually getting to launch that many attacks. The more egregious models got adjusted iirc, but its still a thing that happens, but importantly doesn't really apply to charging attacks at all. So now the problem is, a lot of the statlines were made where these bugs existed, and now that they're gone, they're suddenly finding themselves being whalloped. In the video, beastmen, who have good charge values and damage for infantry, kick the poo poo out of the cav that attacks them because, while the cav that hits will squish the beastmen units, they're only gonna be able to kill so many on the charge, while the much more numerous beastmen infantry are all getting charge attacks off. Cavalry and large units in general typically have rather bad MD so now that the infantry theyre running into is getting attack off at them more reliably and actually having the attacks register correctly, the cavalry is getting its poo poo pushed in when they try to do a frontal assault.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:05
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Gamerofthegame posted:cav own in sieges if they last beyond just the walls, which some faction set ups and particularly heavily defended cities will do. if you're worried about them getting sniped while they're useless just... sit them in the back? towers don't shoot that far, lmao The tower's range often extend literally past the border of the map. The safe spot on 90% of siege maps is in the conveniently uncut forest right in front of the gates or in the corners where they forgot to build any defenses. But aren't the infantry getting more hits in because they are being charged? Maybe being compressed by the charge enables them to attack multiple ranks deep or something. Mercrom fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 06:38
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Mercrom posted:The tower's range often extend literally past the border of the map. The safe spot on 90% of siege maps is in the conveniently uncut forest right in front of the gates or in the corners where they forgot to build any defenses. Yeah, collision in total war is really a... suggestion, so it looks like when things get knocked back the next rank gets to get their swings in, then they get shoved/knocked back, and the next rank gets a shot in. Charge attack animations seem very generous about when the damage from their attack is applied, as well; the two units may even have their attacks occurring simultaneously so even if a unit is killed by the charge they're getting their attack in. Its just speculation on my part tho, it could even be another bug at play. The most official thing I've seen is this reply from a dev. CA_Duck posted:So my hypothesis is that this increase in damage when infantry counter-charge against shock cavalry isn't caused by the knockdown changes. Rather it is caused by the fixes we did to charge damage going missing. Previously there were situations during charges where entities would make a successful attack and roll for damage, but the damage was never applied (better known as the Great Stag Knight charge bug). We did some work to ensure that attacks that hit also dealt their damage reliably as well. Looks like this then brings to light the interaction that infantry can easily get 2-3 times the number of attacks on the charge when compared to a cavalry unit. e: Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I do like the idea of large units getting charge defense vs small while charging, a guy with a sword shouldn't be able to do much while a horse is running them over, or something the size of the house plowing through the formation without stopping. yeah my own idea was that, or that a charging unit gets half its charge bonus applied as a self MD buff, or even that a large unit charging an unbraced small unit could apply a terror effect if the charge bonus is greater than the small units leadership or some such thing to better represent the 'shock' part of 'shock cavalry'. but one reservation i have about intuitive justifications for how things should go are that these intuitions themselves often very inaccurate - cavalry historically tended to eat poo poo if they charged at infantry that didn't break at the charge, to say nothing about how their reign ended due to pikes that were capable of charging at them. Even Elephants, though a lot more keen to do real damage to people, lost against massed infantry that refused to run away from them (although the more sensible counter does mirror TWW, which is to just shoot the poo poo out of them with missiles and to kite them while you do so) Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 06:48
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I do like the idea of large units getting charge defense vs small while charging, a guy with a sword shouldn't be able to do much while a horse is running them over, or something the size of the house plowing through the formation without stopping.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:48
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I hate the skaven so much. Oh only a settlement visible it might be 1 stack inside the settlement, no somehow it's 3 stacks? This faction is at war with multiple nearby enemies it must not have a strong army for only 2 settlements owned! Oh it had 5 full stacks filled with weapon teams?? To make matters worse they got tretch who has some absurd ambush chance so now i gotta deal with 2 skaven stacks ambushing me because apparently reinforcements during ambushes is allowed? Thankfully it's mixus kazador so the armies beefed up and i somehow managed to only get 2 stacks instead of 3 ambushing me now. It's still some stupid poo poo though and makes me really wanna get a unit cap mod so i don't need to deal with the AI filling it's army with elite units when it shouldn't be able to afford it.
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Jul 18, 2021 09:05
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Does the current cavalry vs charging infantry bug affect monsters as well? That seems like it would be far more crippling since monsters are much more likely to charge into infantry who are charging into them.
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Jul 18, 2021 09:38
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Beat Oxyotl's Vortex campaign, I beat Taurox in the final story fight, I'm not waiting around for more Hard battles to spawn. I thought it was pretty fun just teleporting around the world with my crack team of skink commandos and then beating on dark elves in between that.
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Jul 18, 2021 17:56
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Edit: Not sure why that posted twice.
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Jul 18, 2021 17:56
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I like Thorek, but I hate the growth changes. It took me over 125 turns to get a region to tier 4, despite spamming as much growth as possible and doing everything I could to bait nerds into attacking me in my provinces so I could use the +growth for local province post-battle option. 125 loving turns. Meanwhile Grimgor is making GBS threads Black Orcs out like they're going out of style, and I'm just barely able to afford a single stack. Moving all the fun stuff to tier 4 is nice and all, but by the time the anemic growth actually gets you there you're pretty much hosed by the greentide. I don't know what the gently caress they were thinking with the growth changes. I specifically beelined for as much growth as I could loving get between buildings, provincial commandments, tech, etc., and it still took loving AGES to get to tier 4? Really? gently caress that poo poo. It makes playing certain factions (like the dwarves) an absolute loving chore. Thorek has a lot of cool poo poo, and the rune changes are incredible, but they might as well not exist because I literally can't loving enjoy them due to the loving growth change.
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Jul 18, 2021 18:15
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 ACCEPT THE drat TRADE AGREEMENT FRANZ
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Jul 18, 2021 18:23
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Im in the same boat with thorek. Hes fun but the campaign is just such a boring slog.
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Jul 18, 2021 18:23
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I'm not sure what the issue is, but even with the lovely growth changes it should not take 125+ turns to get to T4 (let alone T5). In my Thorgrim game after the patch/DLC drop, I managed T5 on the Silver Road (so 3 settlements) by ~turn 80-90. I did similar too, beelining the two growth techs along with provincial commandment, and getting several wins. Is whatever province you're in only two settlements? Though even then it shouldn't take that long...
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Jul 18, 2021 18:23
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Nope, I beelined north to Blightwater (4 settlements), explicitly for that purpose. I was fighting Grimgor for most of that time (baiting him to attack Misty Mountain or whatever it is by leaving it unwalled and an army in ambush waiting for him). I'm not sure how to get things rolling any faster. As far as I can tell, I did everything I could. I don't even have many mods running right now because they haven't updated for the patch, so I can't even blame them. Maybe I'm just bad, I don't know. The growth change really makes the dawi feel like a loving slog. I get the same feeling from the undead factions (even TK despite the growth buff they got).
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Jul 18, 2021 18:36
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Dwarves not loving? That's a grudgin
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Jul 18, 2021 18:36
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 Anyone got any idea why the AI doesn't want to accept this?
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Jul 18, 2021 18:39
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Broken Cog posted:
just bribe them
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Jul 18, 2021 18:42
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No it's 3 but thorgrim get's the improved commandments so he'll be getting +30 growth instead of +15. I'm on turn 70ish and karak zorn is T3 with 2 growth banked already and only 7 turns until 3 growth so i should be T4 around turn 100 easy. Karak azul and azgal will quickly be T4 also since i have 2 armies fighting near them and returning to heal after fights. It's possible but also really dumb since the elves are in the same boat yet they have a gently caress load of growth yet their whole shtick is low replenishment. Honestly they should have remade the system because the karaks are already built you're just reclaiming them so you should have to fight battles to expand them not grow them. Imagine getting ready for T3 so you bring your main army back then fight 2 greenskin armies at once in some sweet rear end underway/karak map then once defeating them you have more room to build. You could balance this out by having skaven/greenskin/beastmen armies attack settlements if you expand too fast representing you being stretched too thin. Throw in expensive recruitment for rapid expansion also so your gold sink would be improvements and a dwindling dawi supply. Worst case scenario you'll have to fight abuncha defensive underground battles by risking rapid expansion.
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Jul 18, 2021 18:43
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Gonkish posted:Nope, I beelined north to Blightwater (4 settlements), explicitly for that purpose. I was fighting Grimgor for most of that time (baiting him to attack Misty Mountain or whatever it is by leaving it unwalled and an army in ambush waiting for him). I remember in the first game the dwarves had annoying slow growth that made you spend the entire game using tier 1 to 3 units. I actually don't really notice the growth change as much with non-TK undead due to being able to raise dead high tier units. It's ridiculous how much more quickly the AI grows though. The worst thing you can do as an empire faction is confederate with your neighbors before they've had a chance to turbo grow the city to T4 or T5.
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Jul 18, 2021 18:46
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wearing a lampshade posted:just bribe them Sometimes the AI just hates you and the game doesn't explain why. 
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Jul 18, 2021 18:58
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I wish they would add a option that would let the AI control your units, but you could take control where you wanted. That would let the AI take control over all the infantry & such, while i could micro my chariots or cavalry.
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Jul 18, 2021 19:44
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The new beastmen mechanics also make them fun to fight against now. When they set up a herdstone nearby it often creates a situation where everything starts getting corrupted you now have to send an expedition into the wasteland to destroy the heart of the corruption. It's pretty thematic and has lead to cool battles.
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Jul 18, 2021 19:45
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Descar posted:I wish they would add a option that would let the AI control your units, but you could take control where you wanted. mod for that. I’ve never used.
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Jul 18, 2021 19:52
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Descar posted:I wish they would add a option that would let the AI control your units, but you could take control where you wanted. I’d hand over chariots and skirmishers no question. I’d also use chariots and skirmishers more, too!
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Jul 18, 2021 19:58
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Descar posted:I wish they would add a option that would let the AI control your units, but you could take control where you wanted. Ooo, this feels like its in the realm of possibility for a modder to make. Co-op with AI basically! For added work you could even try to turn TW:W into a 3rd person rts, lock the camera on the hero or lord you're controlling. Get some sweet ground(-ish) level views of the battle going on.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:25
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Descar posted:I wish they would add a option that would let the AI control your units, but you could take control where you wanted. There's a mod for it called AI General iirc. You press some hotkey to make selected units ai controlled Last I played it the ai was pretty dodgy though sadly
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Jul 18, 2021 20:40
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Oh dear god stop playing your thorek campaigns, thorgrim is so much better. It's turn 21 and i'm T3 on karak ankor and have a runelord just defending the silver road getting almost non stop gorog. The engineer is such a better character than the runesmith and thogrim with rune of smiting will bring a smile to your face. Someone needs to mod the growth commandment to 25 as default it's so much better and honestly T3 growth building should give a global growth bonus because you're exporting the food at that point.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:04
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How do you do Imrik on ME? The campaign appeals to me for some reason but I just can't manage it. No allies, enemies all around. I can't even beat Clan Eshin because I can barely afford one half-decent stack and then eventually you have a billion orcs and probably Malus on you too.
Elukka fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 22:05
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I haven't played dorfs in a good bit, when did they give the ability for the master engineer to get a SHOTGUN? This dude just turned into the doomguy, racking up triple digit kills every battle.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:11
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I use this mod to change growth back to old levels, it's pretty concerning that CA haven't changed them back and have opted to keep loving around the margins with certain factions. Spoiler: It still blows if you play anyone not Skaven. I also like how CA realized how idiotic it was to put a +1 engineer capacity at tier 5 for Dwarfs, so they changed it to tier 4 but then in the same update added in Skink Oracles and put their capacity increase in tier 5. Whoops edit: Who was even complaining about campaigns going too fast that it required crippling growth rates?
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Jul 18, 2021 22:21
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