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I imagine that even with anonymous sources, given the level of allegations that are coming to light in this particular lawsuit, it would not be impossible for the executives to narrow down who the likely sources are, by cross-referencing alleged details and records of employment / activities / etc. Speaking with the state investigators (who can say they are working on building a civil or criminal case) gives potential sources the cover to talk about things, as the discussion will likely end up as part of a court case with implications and consequences, and not just an article somewhere. E: what a lovely snipe.
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Jul 22, 2021 07:22
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I understand there's a distinction between spending two years compiling a legally actionable case & a tabloid article about "Rumors of Sexual Harassment at Blizzard". But Schreier spent 10 years working at a Video Game tabloid with fairly broad standards for publishing (& an ethically loose history). And even if we choose to assume that he did pursue these rumors & couldn't get anyone to speak openly about it, I personally believe it would be fundamentally worthwhile to publish something saying, "hey, there's rumors here but I can't get anyone to speak about it so I can't follow this up with specifics" & even if it was off brand for him or w/e & people went, Acerbatus posted:"Ok wheres the proof" and "Yeah doesn't surprise me, according to who?" Acerbatus posted:Not too familiar with the lawhead situation, but I don't think schrier (who I know very little about, mind) has a reputation for tabloid journalism so just throwing out reports about how it's rumored blizzard is awful to women would basically get people saying "Ok wheres the proof" and "Yeah doesn't surprise me, according to who?" The crux of the Lawhead thing was Kotaku published details of her assault that Lawhead was told would not be published (she had emails, etc. showing this) & editorial repeatedly stated "Oh, we can't take that down because that doesn't follow journalistic ethics and we technically didn't do anything illegal & in fact, it might get us into legal trouble to take it down" (they took it down after the editor [Stephen Totilo] & authors [Jason Schrierer & Cecilia D'Anastasio] stopped working there). When she started trying to get the article taken down, several other people contacted her anonymously to state that they'd had similar experiences w/ Kotaku (particularly D'Anastasio, who is currently at Wired)
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Jul 22, 2021 07:28
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Hat Thoughts posted:Ur right that it's unfair to assume he did nothing & I am worked up. hm I don't really think you're wrong and i generally would wholeheartedly agree that there has been a weird protective aura of some kind around blizzard due to their historically favored status, both with former blizz people and with people in games/business journalism. I think it is less absolute than you make it out to be and indeed has been rapidly dispelling for the last couple of years. On this note, it's worth nothing that it is true that a lot of the details around this have been percolating around for years and indeed have been reported on and whistleblown in actually quite considerably depth--- to the extent that that reporting is what specifically prompted the investigation afaict (and is cited repeatedly in the suit). In retrospect I guess it's probably just the culture of retaliation that they managed to develop at blizzard, but blizzard's internal business has been a better kept secret in the games industry for a very long time and was pretty drat hard to penetrate until people started blowing the whistle and they started their big layoff waves. Even after those things, people were still very cagey about blizzard, and knowing what we now know about how pervasive the culture of retaliation was, that suddenly adds up. Previously I think the perception was that blizzard's ridiculous litigiousness wrt their aggressive NDAs was the reason why so little was leaking out, but that too started to break down a couple years ago. Until the last year or so when a couple whistleblowers publicly released statements about why they quit, accounts from ex-blizz people were almost always done anonymously with throwaways if you found them at all. In retrospect people clearly were aware that it was them alone vs literally their former superiors at blizzard and their 5,000,000 drooling idiot fanboys that would descend on anything critical of blizzard. Anyways that second paragraph is, I think, more me rambling about my own perceptions of why tf it took so long for the pieces to finally come into alignment for real criticism of blizzard to actually have an impact when this stuff has been bubbling up for ages. You're entirely right that it is a lot weirder for a loving games journalist to be doing the 'yeah i knew about this, no i never published anything about it or apparently did some hard digging into it.' Hat Thoughts posted:I understand there's a distinction between spending two years compiling a legally actionable case & a tabloid article about "Rumors of Sexual Harassment at Blizzard". But Schreier spent 10 years working at a Video Game tabloid with fairly broad standards for publishing (& an ethically loose history). And even if we choose to assume that he did pursue these rumors & couldn't get anyone to speak openly about it, I personally believe it would be fundamentally worthwhile to publish something saying, "hey, there's rumors here but I can't get anyone to speak about it so I can't follow this up with specifics" & even if it was off brand for him or w/e & people went, yeah agreed, after everything that has come out in the last two years, there absolutely were leads that would not be super hard to track down and indeed a number of people who have spoken out on the record over the last year that clearly could suggest other people to talk to. It was maybe a structurally difficult story, but also very definitely not an impossible one Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 07:34
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Thing is there's a lot of posts like this https://twitter.com/CallMeQuestifer/status/1418047576775950339?s=20 That's not even anonymous, from as far back as 2016 people were openly tweeting about their experiences But it seems like they just didn't get signal boosted or listened to enough (although I guess eventually they were, leading to this lawsuit, thank god) Although that tweet also does show that Blizzard made noise about being better, and as such basically managed to stall for time and keep perpetuating things as they were.
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Jul 22, 2021 07:38
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Anyways that second paragraph is, I think, more me rambling about my own perceptions of why tf it took so long for the pieces to finally come into alignment for real criticism of blizzard to actually have an impact when this stuff has been bubbling up for ages. You're entirely right that it is a lot weirder for a loving games journalist to be doing the 'yeah i knew about this, no i never published anything about it or apparently did some hard digging into it.' I think a lot of people just dont want it to be true and hope that acting like it isnt would make it so.
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Jul 22, 2021 07:59
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Acerbatus posted:I think a lot of people just dont want it to be true and hope that acting like it isnt would make it so. Yeah that's been pretty pervasive forever with blizzard. There are so many people invested in seeing blizzard as beyond reproach, though it's heartening that that has been fading for the last couple of years. Hell, even inside blizzard a lot of people clearly hoped it wasn't so systemically dysfunctional: a ton of the people speaking up are saying their own versions of 'i finally got my dream job and I just internalized that this is how things were at the top and maybe my superiors were right that I was doing something wrong.' My heart goes out to everyone involved and I know from experience how much of a mindfuck that dynamic is when you're not in a position to upend it. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 08:07
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:i just assume that's the mo of every major western publisher tbh. we'll prolly hear about this poo poo going on at ea next. EA is apparently fairly good from the viewpoint of conditions. Given their MTX fuckery, they have an incentive to avoid whistleblowers anyway.
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Jul 22, 2021 12:08
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Acerbatus posted:Were the details of the californian investigation published yet, or no because the suit is ongoing? ... why is Chris Metzen posting his own name?
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Jul 22, 2021 13:10
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A Sometimes Food posted:... why is Chris Metzen posting his own name? He's seen this post, and then attempted to search for his own name to see if anyone is talking about him in relation to this, but instead of typing his own name into the search box, he's typed it in the replies box.
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Jul 22, 2021 13:16
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Ed Balls
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Jul 22, 2021 13:19
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StratGoatCom posted:EA is apparently fairly good from the viewpoint of conditions. Given their MTX fuckery, they have an incentive to avoid whistleblowers anyway.
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Jul 22, 2021 14:27
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https://twitter.com/leslee_annsh/status/1379934515552907265
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Jul 22, 2021 14:43
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Acerbatus posted:Were the details of the californian investigation published yet, or no because the suit is ongoing? I'm wondering what that person means by "old blizzard", because as far as I can tell, based on the people accused, it started during the World of Warcraft era. Not that I'm trying to deny the possibility that its the people who worked on the RTSes or anything. I know I'm missing information.
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Jul 22, 2021 14:58
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I'm wondering what that person means by "old blizzard", because as far as I can tell, based on the people accused, it started during the World of Warcraft era. Not that I'm trying to deny the possibility that its the people who worked on the RTSes or anything. I know I'm missing information. Probably referring to their time before the Activision merger in 2008. WoW was already two expansions deep at that point.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:01
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Terrible Opinions posted:I don't think we have any reports of sexual harassment stuff, but we've have a fairly large number of people talking about ea having the same inhumane work hours as other western devs. They were the crunch story when journalism started talking about crunch via EA Spouse. Now they're apparently not as bad, but clearly the problem still exists at least at some studios internally, see the whole Anthem debacle. While some studios have particularly egregious problems, it's worth remembering that there are endemic problems industry-wide, as proven by the fact that the first wave of MeToo stories in gaming involved a bunch of indie darlings. That said, I heard some talk about how bad the culture of old-school California devs was here and there, but gently caress, that was still horrifying to read.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:59
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'I totally knew about this for years but chose not to say anything.' gently caress right off.
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Jul 22, 2021 21:13
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Think about how many people, for how many years, worked on the Weinstein story and knew it was true but couldn't get witnesses to go on the record. Same with Chris Rock. When you are up against a multimillion-dollar company with million-dollar lawyers, you had better be sure you have witnesses on record, and a legal team that says the story's strong enough that you'll win a lawsuit.
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Jul 22, 2021 21:20
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https://twitter.com/anthony_burch/status/1418098448029548544 It is extremely brave of you to say that Anthony. I mean not in the way people who don't know about any of the allegations brought up against you by women in the industry would think it's brave but brave as in... You of all people saying something like this.
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Jul 22, 2021 21:30
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Heran Bago posted:'I totally knew about this for years but chose not to say anything.' Nice. Good job not reading any of the discussion on this page! My most enduring memory about Blizzard was the subtitle to the old Blizzard subforum here on SA that said “here’s a place to discuss all your favorite dumb brownie batter Blizzard games” it sticks with even to this day.
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Jul 22, 2021 21:32
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As nice as it would be to have problems solved like in the movies where you scream at the building, in the rain, promising that you'll destroy your enemies, if you do that in real life you just get sued into bankruptcy. That's why there's so many layers of separation when people decide to be whistleblowers on stuff, because no one person can stand against a billion-dollar company and have the same amount of support or equal standing. RareAcumen fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 21:54
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Think about how many people, for how many years, worked on the Weinstein story and knew it was true but couldn't get witnesses to go on the record. Same with Chris Rock. When you are up against a multimillion-dollar company with million-dollar lawyers, you had better be sure you have witnesses on record, and a legal team that says the story's strong enough that you'll win a lawsuit. Absolutely! But it doesn't help anyone to say that they have heard stories over the years and done nothing. Like why would you even say that? Julius, I keep up on the thread and just wanted to condemn that tweet, even if it doesn't necessarily bring something new to the conversation.
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Jul 22, 2021 21:55
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Heran Bago posted:Absolutely! But it doesn't help anyone to say that they have heard stories over the years and done nothing. Like why would you even say that? "Heard stories" is a huge difference from "approached as a member of the media to give statements about the matter" Bringing up journalistic ethics with this specific video game journo is a bit of an lol but unless several people approached him specifically to try and get the word out about the working conditions he's not really in a place to report or say anything without possibly outing them or costing them their jobs. Saying "yes I believe these accusations, I've heard about them" is good for the discourse, but coming from him it's more of a clout chasing moment.
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Jul 22, 2021 22:04
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Heran Bago posted:Absolutely! But it doesn't help anyone to say that they have heard stories over the years and done nothing. Like why would you even say that?
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Jul 22, 2021 22:16
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Think about how many people, for how many years, worked on the Weinstein story and knew it was true but couldn't get witnesses to go on the record. Same with Chris Rock. When you are up against a multimillion-dollar company with million-dollar lawyers, you had better be sure you have witnesses on record, and a legal team that says the story's strong enough that you'll win a lawsuit. Schreier stood by and did jack poo poo while d'Anastasio's shitfest of a piece on Soule did its damage (people say he did additional reporting on it but I can't find confirmation of it offhand), so regardless of what other work he's done (I just read his latest book) I would probably not trust him specifically on sexual harassment and abuse stories And I understand why other people at Kotaku didn't publicly stand with Lawhead but Schreier was the most privileged and famous face on staff, not saying anything (even the veiled poo poo others had to resign themselves to) was rank cowardice or complicity
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Jul 22, 2021 22:18
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Like out of the major outlet reporters on the game industry, Nicole Carpenter at Polygon would be way better for a source to contact than Schreier
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Jul 22, 2021 22:20
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Schreier stood by and did jack poo poo while d'Anastasio's shitfest of a piece on Soule did its damage (people say he did additional reporting on it but I can't find confirmation of it offhand), so regardless of what other work he's done (I just read his latest book) I would probably not trust him specifically on sexual harassment and abuse stories You make excellent points.
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Jul 22, 2021 22:30
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Viewtiful Jew posted:https://twitter.com/anthony_burch/status/1418098448029548544 LOL at somebody asking him "What was HR like when you worked at Gearbox?"
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Jul 22, 2021 22:31
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It boggles my mind how bad that statement from Blizzard is.
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Jul 23, 2021 05:04
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Think about how many people, for how many years, worked on the Weinstein story and knew it was true but couldn't get witnesses to go on the record. Same with Chris Rock. When you are up against a multimillion-dollar company with million-dollar lawyers, you had better be sure you have witnesses on record, and a legal team that says the story's strong enough that you'll win a lawsuit. Wait Chris Rock? Hadn't heard he was a sex pest
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Jul 23, 2021 05:11
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Skippy McPants posted:It boggles my mind how bad that statement from Blizzard is. I feel like Blizzard insiders would have plenty of notice of the suit being filed, I can't imagine they were caught unawares so I guess their crisis PR is just bottom barrel
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Jul 23, 2021 05:13
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Skippy McPants posted:It boggles my mind how bad that statement from Blizzard is. Lmao earlier this year they hired a former Trump admin guy who reported directly to Mike Pompeo: The dude posted:Bulatao has specifically been hired to oversee the Call of Duty Endowment, a non-profit foundation co-founded by Kotick that helps former service members in the United States and UK transition to civilian careers. He will also take charge of "key administrative functions" across departments including Activision Blizzard, People, IT, Workplace Information, and Physical Security. Full article: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/379131/Activision_Blizzard_hires_former_Trump_administration_bully_Brian_Bulatao.php I don't know if the bolded bits includes PR responses but I wouldn't be surprised if this rear end in a top hat was part of it. So the statement is absolutely on brand if you ask me.
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Jul 23, 2021 05:40
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Schreier stood by and did jack poo poo while d'Anastasio's shitfest of a piece on Soule did its damage (people say he did additional reporting on it but I can't find confirmation of it offhand), so regardless of what other work he's done (I just read his latest book) I would probably not trust him specifically on sexual harassment and abuse stories Still making an assumption that he never tried to get a story published or that he ever heard more than just rumors. Schreier can be a useless rear end in a top hat without making poo poo up, my dudes. This is also separate from whether anyone should contact him with their story. Feels like at this point you would be far better served with going to the actual state lawyers bringing the suit.
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Jul 23, 2021 05:57
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Never mind
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Jul 23, 2021 06:18
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I made absolutely no comment on what he did with previous Blizzard information, please read
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Jul 23, 2021 06:19
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah but he could be pushing that substantial investigation, and it doesn't really feel like he was. Reporters can have anonymous sources. The state took two years because they have to win a lawsuit. A good investigative journalism piece takes work and time for sure, but was he? Why should anyone trust an anonymous source?
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Jul 23, 2021 07:12
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John_A_Tallon posted:Why should anyone trust an anonymous source? What I meant is those cases where the reporter knows the source but never divulges who it is to anybody else. That's a big thing in politics right?
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Jul 23, 2021 07:13
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Activision Blizzard is just taking shot after shot these days. Whatever happens with this, its definitely gonna hurt them. Kazinsal posted:Just remembered that this feller was in Epstein's little black book: Not to put a damper on things but... Apparently Epstein's put names and addresses of people he had connections with and wanted connections with. So this could just be nothing.
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Jul 23, 2021 07:46
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Zaphod42 posted:What I meant is those cases where the reporter knows the source but never divulges who it is to anybody else. That's a big thing in politics right? Anonymising complaints like this is probably impossible - any specific allegations a source would make are probably recognisable and the company would retaliate, or they'd be too vague to be reported. Investigative reporting is quite a bit more difficult, and has more legal and ethical challenges, than you might assume. It's also impossible to know whether someone was pursuing an investigation on this but couldn't get enough sources on the record, or legal advice forced them to stop, or any other number of obstacles. I don't know, I feel like this issue (how rigorous a journalist Jason Schreier is) is a bit of a distraction from the main problem, which is rampant sexual harassment, abuse and misogyny in Activision/Blizzard offices.
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Jul 23, 2021 09:23
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bunnyofdoom posted:Wait Chris Rock? Hadn't heard he was a sex pest Yeah all I've heard is he cheated on his wife a lot. But never about anything nonconsensual. I mean, lovely behavior but not predatory.
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Jul 23, 2021 10:58
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https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1418512291218264065 Which is it, is the report inaccurate and rushed, or is it actually something that should move the company to take reparative measures? And also lol at the idea that people should feel safe to tell poo poo to HR when clearly so far it hasn't worked out.
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Jul 23, 2021 11:32
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