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Finally finished The Wizard Knight and it is just amazing. I don't know if I have anything more coherent to say about it, but it was a blast to read.
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Jul 11, 2021 17:21
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Atlas Hugged posted:Finally finished The Wizard Knight and it is just amazing. I don't know if I have anything more coherent to say about it, but it was a blast to read. Ya. I swallowed book 2 in what felt like 1 sitting. Idk why but the line "speed isn't an important thing; it's the only thing" seared its way into my head with fairly close paraphrase accuracy
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Jul 11, 2021 18:08
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Nakar posted:In Green's Jungles is probably my favorite single book in Long/Short Sun, but I wasn't as high on the first or third of Short or on Long Sun in general, so it's kind of weird. It's like absolutely adoring Back to the Future: Part II as an individual film but disliking the first and third movies and not being super high on the series as a whole. Boy, you weren't wrong. Just finished Return. What a trip. I'm going to have to start the Sun cycle again from the beginning soon while the "end" is still fresh in my mind. I wonder how much contact Wolfe and Jordan had, because this is such an orouboros of a series. I feel like they'd have some very fun conversations. I'm very glad the short sun books managed to course correct after what felt like a very weak first book, though of course there's a good chance i will like it as much as the rest once my next reading makes it there again. Either way, I'm feeling mentally stuffed like after a rich meal. Thank you as always Mr. Wolfe. Rest in peace.
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Jul 12, 2021 15:40
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The Wizard Knight is what happens when a DM doesn't know how to say no. Able's death halfway through is the DM pulling him aside and saying that he's ruining it for everyone else and that he really, really needs to tone it down. Eventually he gets bored and fucks the campaign over about the time he gets a girlfriend in real life and is kicked out by the DM. Some time later a game is being put together with a new DM and they're short a player and someone says, "Hey, I know a guy."
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Jul 13, 2021 13:36
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Haven't picked up a Wolfe book in years, but I just got out of The Green Knight and it seemed heavily inspired by Gene Wolfe's work. In a bizarre way it felt watching an actual adaptation of his work. I made some more in-depth posts in the thread for the movie. Also, coincidentally, Gene died while they were filming it. I would love to hear thoughts on this from people familiar with his work.
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Aug 10, 2021 01:20
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That just reminded me I was going to make a BotNS effort post but forgot most of what I was going to write.  It was about how Severian continually mistakes genuine miracles for sleight of hand (the decapitation and resurrection at his ascension ceremony) and then mistakes sleight of hand for a miracle (the beach full of Claws).
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Aug 10, 2021 03:50
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Carly Gay Dead Son posted:Haven't picked up a Wolfe book in years, but I just got out of The Green Knight and it seemed heavily inspired by Gene Wolfe's work. In a bizarre way it felt watching an actual adaptation of his work. I made some more in-depth posts in the thread for the movie. Also, coincidentally, Gene died while they were filming it. Well that's on my radar now. I also need to dig up the podcast where a mid-English (or whenever that poem came out) historian convinced me that the poem was really just an allegory for circumcision. There are multiple historical examples of ancient dad jokes turning into modern mythology. I should really write them down when I come across explanations.
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Aug 11, 2021 03:37
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A friend lent me Malory's Arthurian tales and they're weird as hell. Not at all what I was expecting given how it's portrayed in TV and films. I'd definitely recommend checking them out, and it wouldn't surprise me if Wolfe read them
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Aug 11, 2021 13:58
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Hammer Bro. posted:I also need to dig up the podcast where a mid-English (or whenever that poem came out) historian convinced me that the poem was really just an allegory for circumcision. 
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Aug 11, 2021 14:56
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packetmantis posted:That just reminded me I was going to make a BotNS effort post but forgot most of what I was going to write. One I totally missed my first reading was that he turned water into wine and just thinks he ordered wine in the night
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Aug 25, 2021 03:09
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The alzabo soup interpretation of that scene is the dumbest poo poo I ever heard
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Aug 25, 2021 03:25
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Your Gay Uncle posted:One I totally missed my first reading was that he turned water into wine and just thinks he ordered wine in the night Oh my god I totally missed that, lmao, he's such a dumbass. What did Alzabo Soup say?
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Aug 25, 2021 03:44
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Yeah Green Knight is really good and a bit Wolfe-ish. But even if it wasn't, it's still one of the most beautiful looking and sounding movies I've ever exprienced, so worth checking out for that reason too.
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Aug 25, 2021 19:31
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Ccs posted:Yeah Green Knight is really good and a bit Wolfe-ish. But even if it wasn't, it's still one of the most beautiful looking and sounding movies I've ever exprienced, so worth checking out for that reason too. I didn't blink for the first act
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Aug 25, 2021 21:22
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Going to be reading Wolfe''s Free Live Free soon. It has a weird out of nowhere ending apparently.
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Aug 25, 2021 22:09
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It's one of the few books that has deliberate editorial revisions between different print runs. You can see Wolfe going, "Could I make it any more obvious?" I think they forced him to include a big spoilery afterward regardless.
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Aug 26, 2021 20:23
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Finished reading Free Live Free. I have the 1985 TOR Books edition of Free Live Free which added a chronological timeline of "Ben Free". Free Live Free wasn't that great and kind of ruined by one of the characters (tiny detective) always having to be the smartest person in the room/an instant expert on everything, especially during the five or so "well actually" reveal scenes staggered throughout the book. And the entire thing about the "bigger than a 747" airplane that has been flying in the upper mesosphere non-stop for 40+ yrs just gets dumber and more WTF as details about it come out. It has a functional time machine in it. It is invisible to radar because it's made of layers and layers of plywood. It was commissioned as a secret World War 2 project to kickstart lagging Allied war programs like the Manhattan Project using that time machine inside it. And so on.
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Aug 31, 2021 15:39
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That seems like a small joking reference to the spruce goose only ever flying a single mile. And only then after the war was over. You would need a time machine for it to ever fulfill it's goal.
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Aug 31, 2021 15:47
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papa horny michael posted:That seems like a small joking reference to the spruce goose only ever flying a single mile. And only then after the war was over. You would need a time machine for it to ever fulfill it's goal. There's the big time machine on that macguffin airplane plus a few portable teleporter/mini-time machine devices linked to that big time machine. Like I said, the book gets dumber and more WTF as details come out about that macguffin airplane. The Spruce Goose got namedropped and used as an example a few times in Free Live Free. The difference between the Goose and the macguffin airplane in Free Live Free is: quote:It's a matter of weight, really -the weight-to-lift ratio. The plywood has a layer of cedar on the outside for rot resistance, then alternating layers of balsa and spruce. When they found out it worked, they had Hughes Aircraft build one that was all spruce. You couldn't get balsa from South America any more, you see. But that one didn't fly. It was too heavy." quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 16:22
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Just finished Soldier of Arete. Much more of a mindfuck than Soldier of the Mist was, and I’m enjoying reading through various theories/explanations online. But one thing is bugging me that I can find nothing about : What’s the deal with Oeobazus? The whole Thrace adventure, which is a large portion of the book, involves trying to find the guy. But why? He did some impressive engineering work in Sestos or something? And then when they finally find him and bring him back to Greece, he changes his name and moves away. I don’t think he is ever mentioned after that and he certainly doesn’t play into the ending. Huh? How does Soldier of Sidon compare? Worth reading? I really enjoyed Mist and Arete.
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Oct 3, 2021 15:48
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https://mobile.twitter.com/Ramonkey_art/status/1444698021833412621
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Oct 3, 2021 17:39
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Just finished Citadel of the Autarch, and wow what a ride. I have to admit that the first two books were hard reading. I had no idea what to expect except that these books were highly praised, and I wasn't ready for what I got. I had my first "what the hell am I even reading?" moment during the Botanic Garden section, and even put the book down for a couple weeks when I couldn't make it through Dr. Talos' play without my mind feeling like it was in a pretzel. I picked it back up though, and everything finally clicked together when Severian met Typhon, and everything from there to where I am now was some of most incredible stuff I've ever read.
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Oct 7, 2021 00:46
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Hope to see you back when you finish Urth and especially the Long and Short Sun Saga's. People can say what they will about Wolfe, but reading his novels has profoundly impacted the way I live my life, which is something I cannot say about most prestige literature
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Oct 7, 2021 06:16
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I blew through Urth of the New Sun, and it was fantastic. Everything on the ship up to end of Severian's trial was so fascinating. The second half of the book wasn't as "fun" per se, but it was a great epilogue to everything, basically an extended connect all the dots/tie up the threads. Some thoughts/reflections/questions: 1) Severian, the epitome of Urth, is a really lovely dude, and also its savior. He gets slightly more compassionate and reflective as his journey goes on, but even after he becomes the New Sun and is walking around as the Conciliator, he's still rude, jealous, and quick to kill those standing in his way. It's not until he becomes Apu Punchau that he seems almost like the type that we associate with a savior figure. I think the moment where he decides to let the chiliarch who wronged him go is a major one, and this happens long after he passes the Hierogrommates' test and has already "saved" the world. Could only a person such as Severian, fundamentally "bad" but with a seed of goodness in him, do what needed to be done to bring the New Sun? Would a more traditional good guy type refuse and try to find another way that didn't involve killing everyone on the planet? I know Severian is told not to think of the world as a struggle between good and evil, that there are deeper considerations to make. Maybe someone else can put this into words better that I can, but I'm not exactly sure what Wolfe is trying to give us as the thesis here, especially in light of his Catholic faith. 2) Tzadkiel tells Severian that they are also on trial, but for what, and by whom? We don't see any other Hierogrommates, is Tzadkiel's trial to bring about the New Sun and thus preserve their own existence? 3) We're told a lot that there are other myriad races in the universe, and that humans don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Later, after Severian becomes the New Sun, Apetha sort of hints that this was a lie to take some of the pressure off of Severian. Are there even other races? Or is everything just offshoots/byproducts of humanity, like the Hierogrommates and the Hierodules themselves are? 4) At the beginning of the books, I figured we were headed toward some kind of showdown between humanity and the Group of Seventeen, but they're still presumably kicking around on Ushas. What is their deal, where did they come from? We're told their goal is enslavement and not annihilation, are they in opposition to the Hierogrammates? Or am I missing the point and are they meant to be allegorical? 5) Wtf happened in Os? Severian comments that he enjoyed his time there among honest rivermen, but then Ceryx shows up and does his thing with Zama again as he's leaving and everyone stabs the poo poo out of them. Someone says something like "they killed [Zama] because he was no longer a danger to them." Who was Ceryx? Was Zama actually a bad man in the town before he became a zombie? Or is this more of the idea that we shouldn't think of good vs. evil, and that humanity is more complicated? 6) Did we ever learn what was going on with Mountain-Typhon's ring, the one that zaps Little Severian? I thought we'd see something of it in that part of Urth, but I might have missed it. That's just what I have at the top of my head right now. I'm not as well-read as some others on this forum, but reading this reminded me of reading Great Expectations when I was in high school.
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Oct 9, 2021 19:30
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So, my thoughts on a couple of those points are Severian was always the New Sun. Like, literally the star, in human clothing. The real trial was the New Sun/Severian judging whether humanity/Urth was worthy of salvation. To this end, the New Sun incarnated as the the least sympathetic person possible on Urth, a professional torturer. Somewhat balancing that, the whole autarchy system with its memory transfer exists to give the New Sun a breadth of experience to draw on in judging humanity, and that’s why the autarchs are always common people. Also, salvation does include killing almost all of humanity, so it does kind of look like a new form of torture, yeah.
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Oct 9, 2021 22:06
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https://mobile.twitter.com/crucifixplanet/status/1448851626119286784
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Oct 16, 2021 22:01
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I always pictured something similar to the scourge beasts in Yahar'gul in Bloodborne but that's cool too.
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Oct 17, 2021 01:13
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Has anyone done a drawing of the ship in Urth of the New Sun? I read over the descriptions a bunch but I could never figure it out.
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Oct 17, 2021 01:28
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Speaking of the thread title (from an amazon review) Cackling at imagining people reviewing literature and deciding it's too complex.
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Oct 21, 2021 19:32
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loving hell.
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Oct 21, 2021 19:39
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packetmantis posted:loving hell. There was another that complained the guy made up words 
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Oct 21, 2021 19:43
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I am going to scream!!!!!
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Oct 21, 2021 20:08
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Amazing reviews. I feel like the second one is on the verge of getting it but isn't quite there.
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Oct 21, 2021 21:09
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Tokelau All Star posted:2) Tzadkiel tells Severian that they are also on trial, but for what, and by whom? We don't see any other Hierogrommates, is Tzadkiel's trial to bring about the New Sun and thus preserve their own existence? There's a theory that the creature that kills Severian is a form a Tzadkiel, and helping the duplicate Severian is some sort of penance. quote:3) We're told a lot that there are other myriad races in the universe, and that humans don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Later, after Severian becomes the New Sun, Apetha sort of hints that this was a lie to take some of the pressure off of Severian. Are there even other races? Or is everything just offshoots/byproducts of humanity, like the Hierogrommates and the Hierodules themselves are? The Cumaean is an alien, and she makes contact with another alien during the ritual she performs. quote:6) Did we ever learn what was going on with Mountain-Typhon's ring, the one that zaps Little Severian? I thought we'd see something of it in that part of Urth, but I might have missed it. I thought it was just to prevent people from stealing the gold.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:58
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quote:3) We're told a lot that there are other myriad races in the universe, and that humans don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Later, after Severian becomes the New Sun, Apetha sort of hints that this was a lie to take some of the pressure off of Severian. Are there even other races? Or is everything just offshoots/byproducts of humanity, like the Hierogrommates and the Hierodules themselves are As well as the Cumean, there's also the Salamander and the Nodules that summoned by Hethor for sentient creatures, and depending on your view the Alazabo itself seems to have a borrowed sentience or else it wouldn't have defended the family from the lobotomites.
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Oct 22, 2021 06:19
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Re: BotNS scene on the mountain.Action Jacktion posted:I thought it was just to prevent people from stealing the gold. Yeah, that's what I always thought it was and I'm always a bit confused when people ascribe such importance to it or create grandiose theories around it. I think almost all of the Wolfe mysteries actually have simple explanations if you have the full context of the characters making the decisions. Given that we almost never have that information initially, I think it throws people for a loop when things happen for reasons that would make sense in our own contexts without any outside information. The deepest mysteries are the ones that weren't supposed to be mysterious.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:21
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i finished citadel of the autarch yesterday and have already started my reread of shadow
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Dec 9, 2021 03:54
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SEX HAVER 40000 posted:i finished citadel of the autarch yesterday and have already started my reread of shadow Hell yeah. Might want to check out Urth of the New Sun before you start your reread. It makes the end of Claw make a little more sense.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:14
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Does anyone have a copy of or working link to the Marc Aramini Wizard Knight reading? I remember reading snippets of that and it actually resonating with me more than I expected. I'm about to revisit those books soon and wouldn't mind evaluating that interpretation with it fresh in my mind.
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Jan 21, 2022 16:52
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Just finishing up my second readthrough of Book of the New Sun; amazing how much more I'm getting out of it this time around
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Jan 21, 2022 21:23
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