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Kanos posted:Also playing 100% optimally all the time once you've cracked the code can make your content less engaging. Look at how many people already complain about how boring it is when Legend baits out the enemy's entire ammo stock despite it being objectively the optimal play. he really doesn't do it that much any more these days, as he's said in streams. only uses it when its something where the auto resolve is telling him he'd get a crushing defeat or whatever where he needs to trigger the morale losses to have a chance at winning and ammo reserves are a big part of the balance of power calculation.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:27
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:People do bad moves sometimes to drive engagement and interest. It’s like a hate click. This is what I told people back when I streamed overwatch and made a dumbass decision.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:53
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dogstile posted:This is what I told people back when I streamed overwatch and made a dumbass decision. I mean, there is definitely some of this, but Legend/Turin will straight up declare they are about to make a series of bad moves to see what happens, and then do exactly that. It usually ends up being way more exciting that way, such as trying to hold Lustria after confederating Plague Rats as Gun Rats on turn 12 with one minor settlement left.
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Sep 3, 2021 17:18
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I think Turin is a more entertaining host/announcer and having his content be MP-focused is a lot more exciting, LOTW just has a ridiculous work ethic/release schedule. The dude does 6+ hours of campaign stream a day and releases a 15 min-1 hour edited video each day too, even on weekends. LOTW did help me a ton with campaign but tbh his edited doomstack videos don't do anything for me, but the saving your disaster battles/campaigns are some of the best, most informative campaign videos I've seen. Once you know the AI inside and out like LOTW does, it kind of sucks all the tension and challenge out. Anyone can make any doomstack work, you can watch people build a 19 bats + 1 vampire stack and wreck on Legendary
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Sep 3, 2021 17:52
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Yeah, I think Turin is my favorite Total War Streamer (and Warcraft 3, I guess), he's charming, a good player on the campaign layer and an excellent one in battles. Legend is cool at what he does nowadays and has some legit brilliant moves sometimes, but his streams are very predictable due to the nature of Total War singleplayer, his absolute mastery of it and all the times he does exceedingly boring stuff in battles.
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Sep 3, 2021 18:00
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Isnt Turin the one that calls Skinwolves "condoms" or something?
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Sep 3, 2021 18:16
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Isnt Turin the one that calls Skinwolves "condoms" or something? Yeah, he has nicknames for most of the more interesting units. They range from "a fun thought" to "I wish he wouldn't say that." It's just the idiosyncrasies of casting and play so much of a game in front of the camera, I think. He has a few other verbal tics that I both absolutely hate and also don't really care about, like every time he sees a 69 he adds "that's what she said." I have no other way of explaining how it makes me feel. Finally going through a game as Empire, Gelt specifically, and my army at turn 100 for Gelt is almost the same as it was turn 10. I'm not supposed to swap out my spears and swords for more killy units that can't hold a line as well, right? Greatswords and Halberdiers look to be supplemental to help your front line punch harder, but I just need them to survive while Gelt and crossbows and the mortar kill everything.
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Sep 3, 2021 18:37
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ZearothK posted:Yeah, I think Turin is my favorite Total War Streamer (and Warcraft 3, I guess), he's charming, a good player on the campaign layer and an excellent one in battles. Legend is cool at what he does nowadays and has some legit brilliant moves sometimes, but his streams are very predictable due to the nature of Total War singleplayer, his absolute mastery of it and all the times he does exceedingly boring stuff in battles. Legend’s recent Ikit Shenanigans videos were fun. Early on he goes into a defensive alliance with the Beastmen while they were sieging, went to battle as their backup, retreated his army while using Ikit to cast spells on the BM. BM lose and retreat. The AI chases them down and eliminates them, then Legend hits the settlement and wins. Very lore appropriate. All while doing his hilarious (IMO) skaven voice. I find his streams a lot of fun. Always something new to watch, way more than I could ever watch in full, and even 2400+ hours into WH2 I’m still learning stuff about the game from him. He said his last WH2 campaign before WH3 will be a Throgg campaign which should be a fun watch as he hates Throgg.
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Sep 3, 2021 18:49
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Chakan posted:Yeah, he has nicknames for most of the more interesting units. They range from "a fun thought" to "I wish he wouldn't say that." It's just the idiosyncrasies of casting and play so much of a game in front of the camera, I think. He has a few other verbal tics that I both absolutely hate and also don't really care about, like every time he sees a 69 he adds "that's what she said." I have no other way of explaining how it makes me feel. Depending on what you are fighting, greatswords and halberdiers are more durable and more lethal. Essentially, campaign halberdiers get charge defense vs all and armor piercing in return for losing bronze shields. Compared to swordsmen, greatswords gain ~65 armor (which actually comes to about the damage resistance against non-AP ranged that bronze shields do IIRC), and AP damage. Both halberdiers and greatswords gain some small amounts of health, and obviously cost more. So it depends on what you are fighting. If your enemies have large amounts of AP ranged and large units, you are probably better off with spears and swords. If you are fighting lots of armor and mixes of infantry and cavalry, greatswords and halberds will both be more durable (thanks to armor and charge reflect vs all respectively) and more lethal (thanks to AP damage). Incidentally, killing things faster is also good defense. As a final comment, a lot of Empire enemies are Chaos and VC, neither if which have particularly good ranged damage games, especially from AP sources. E: note that Gelt's elector troop is basically THE line-holding infantry for the Empire. Armor midway between greatswords and regular state troops, silver shields, and charge defense vs all. They won't kill any armor at all, and definitely won't kill armored infantry, but they will hold a line better than anything else the Empire can field. They also barely cost more than normal spearmen. If I don't have access to them, I typically prefer halberdiers and greatswords (Carroburg if available) for most of my line. But since you are starting as Gelt, you mostly just need a source of reliable AP ranged damage and you are good. e2: if you are using all basic infantry, crossbows, and mortars some heavily armored troops (Chaos, massed grave guard) might be a rude shock but Gelt himself might be enough to overcome that. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Sep 3, 2021 |
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Sep 3, 2021 19:01
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Scott Forstall posted:Legend’s recent Ikit Shenanigans videos were fun. Early on he goes into a defensive alliance with the Beastmen while they were sieging, went to battle as their backup, retreated his army while using Ikit to cast spells on the BM. BM lose and retreat. The AI chases them down and eliminates them, then Legend hits the settlement and wins. Very lore appropriate.
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Sep 3, 2021 19:43
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Legend has some really boring/predictable videos and he has some that are just brilliant. I enjoyed his recent saving a disaster battle where he was playing Vampire Coast and being reinforced by an allied Skaven army. He has a wealth of TW:WH2 content at this point and it runs the gamut. Everything from tutorials to cheese to lord/unit comparisons. I don't know why people say Turin is bad at campaign either, he purposely chooses specific campaign play styles for entertainment purposes and says as much on the stream. He is excellent at campaign when he actually tries but it's not as much fun to be honest. Both of them sometimes do stupid things because their attention is on the chat window as often as the campaign map. They also have to stop what they're doing and regurgitate some dudes name and his stupid question because they paid $1 or whatever. MercyTheMad isn't bad either, his are a bit more amateurish feeling but he's done some cool campaigns. I love his "no recruitment" campaigns, the Volkmar one was so much fun. The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Sep 3, 2021 |
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Sep 3, 2021 20:18
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ive done the Murder My Allies tactic when they're gonna take a city I want
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Sep 3, 2021 20:23
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Ravenfood posted:e2: if you are using all basic infantry, crossbows, and mortars some heavily armored troops (Chaos, massed grave guard) might be a rude shock but Gelt himself might be enough to overcome that. This whole post was exactly what I was looking for, thanks! I was planning to swap my melee cards to their heavier counterparts when Chaos comes around, because I just did a Saurus themed run of Lizardmen and some of the fights against CWs were miserable and I have no desire try and tactics my way out of not being able to reasonably damage 1/2 the enemy forces. Part of the problem is that I haven't lost a unit in Gelts stack since the start, once he gets rolling there's almost no force that the AI can put up against him, I've taken down Manfred on dragon with several vargheists and 6(!) gold chevron varghulfs.
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Sep 3, 2021 20:33
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Halberdiers also have much better stats than spearman don’t they? Like another 10 MD is huge.
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Sep 3, 2021 21:40
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Halberdiers also have much better stats than spearman don’t they? Like another 10 MD is huge. Halberdiers have no shields and a slower animation speed
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Sep 3, 2021 21:44
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This actually makes a lot of sense.
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Sep 3, 2021 21:53
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Halberdiers also have much better stats than spearman don’t they? Like another 10 MD is huge. Not unless I'm missing some research upgrades. They get +6 MA and slightly slower attack. Same MD. Halberdiers do 8/20 regular/AP vs spearmen 19/6. Also get 4 more charge bonus and 1 more bonus vs large. I think the increased damage roughly makes up for the decreased attack speed.
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Sep 3, 2021 21:53
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Kaza42 posted:Halberdiers have no shields and a slower animation speed animation speed matters if it is greater than the minimum dictated in the stats, i can't actually check if that is the case right now tho
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Sep 3, 2021 22:02
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Halbs are much better than spears for what are usually the Empire's nemeses (Vampire Counts and Chaos) since they generally won't be packing a lot of ranged firepower. However, even Greenskin bows can put on the hurt on halbs because they only have average armor and no shields.
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Sep 3, 2021 22:04
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What's a good Kemmler strat? I'm on turn 26 and control Artois and 2/3 of my starting province. I feel very hemmed in by factions that will war dec me if I go for Marienburg or Couronne. EDIT: what bloodline should I open first? The 50% Hero upkeep?
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Sep 4, 2021 07:36
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Black orcs can really take a pounding. Dunno if it's just cause I play on legendary cause I'm an idiot but late game greenskins are a real menace compared to a lot of other factions.
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Sep 4, 2021 08:51
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Devorum posted:What's a good Kemmler strat? I'm on turn 26 and control Artois and 2/3 of my starting province. I feel very hemmed in by factions that will war dec me if I go for Marienburg or Couronne. 50% hero upkeep will let you spam Necromancers that cost no upkeep (since your faction trait reduces necro upkeep by another 50%), and they do have that trait to increase income in a province. You can stack them in your most lucrative province with time. Once you get Artois and the dwarves to your south settled, consider grabbing Bastonne and Montfort (or at least Montfort), and then grab a trade treaty with Mousillon. It's not a huge amount of money, but any money is better than none that early on, plus the province will still generate wealth on its own. I'd recommend trying to snipe Marienburg and/or Couronne early, as well as the fort that Marienburg controls at the start. You want to knock Louen out of the game, because if you go for Karl while Louen is still kicking, he will almost assuredly end up declaring war on you (doubly so if Mousillon is gone). Fortunately, Rakarth and Wulfrik should likely be pushing on Karl and friends, or Louen, or both, so they might be distracted. Keep an eye out for goings on around Marienburg and Reikland. Grab them as soon as you can, specifically to deny Karl the ability to do so. Karl confederating quickly is your worst nightmare, and the sooner you can get Reikland built up and properly dead-ified, the better.
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Sep 4, 2021 09:49
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Black Orcs have high armor and very high health per model for infantry, so they’re pretty tough relative to other foot soldiers; the only real competition in that regard is Chosen.
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Sep 4, 2021 09:56
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whens the next WH3 info drop? feels like it's been ages
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Sep 4, 2021 11:21
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They deliberately took August off to give Troy some time to breathe. Now that it's out on steam, it'll probably be another week or two before they switch back to Ham news
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Sep 4, 2021 11:50
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Zedhe Khoja posted:whens the next WH3 info drop? feels like it's been ages If not next week definitely the following week, their post from back in July basically said September was when the drip feed turns into a full on waterfall. I feel like we're going to get a release date too, which I really hope is still this year.
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Sep 4, 2021 12:33
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Devorum posted:What's a good Kemmler strat? I'm on turn 26 and control Artois and 2/3 of my starting province. I feel very hemmed in by factions that will war dec me if I go for Marienburg or Couronne. Get the Lahmian bloodline ASAP. Free necromancers and eventually the Lahmian Lord comes with a massive +chance for local heroes to succeed which really kicks off your Kiss farming and means you'll never face heroes on the battlefield. Like all VC, the pro strat is rushing the -100% skeleton upkeep research, then spamming hordes of skeletons backed with Necromancers casting Winds of Death and summoning basically an entire second front line of zombies. If you need a heavy hitter, use raise dead. Then go drown everything in your armies of undead. Just let the AI charge your line and Winds of Death them all and use Vampire heroes to clean up (once you can recruit them) Kemmler is better at the necromancer spam, Isabella at the Vampire spam. Otherwise same idea. With Kemmler's new skills, he miiight be worth getting zombies instead of skeletons? Not sure there.
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Sep 4, 2021 13:39
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Devorum posted:What's a good Kemmler strat? I'm on turn 26 and control Artois and 2/3 of my starting province. I feel very hemmed in by factions that will war dec me if I go for Marienburg or Couronne. as for the bloodline lord, agreeing the Lahmia comes first.
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Sep 4, 2021 14:07
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Right after I posted that, a Beastmen herd went rampaging through Southern Brettonia and Rakarth came down and obliterated Marienburg (which owned like 1/3 of the Empire at the time) and asked me for a NAP, so that took a lot of pressure off. Of course, fool that I am, I entered an alliance with Mousilon and now I'm at war with Skryre and Naggarond because of it.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:27
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RoyalScion posted:Black Orcs have high armor and very high health per model for infantry, so they’re pretty tough relative to other foot soldiers; the only real competition in that regard is Chosen. Temple Guard are up there to tbh.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:49
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Devorum posted:Right after I posted that, a Beastmen herd went rampaging through Southern Brettonia and Rakarth came down and obliterated Marienburg (which owned like 1/3 of the Empire at the time) and asked me for a NAP, so that took a lot of pressure off. I hate that I'm using the L in Albion to turn it into an "AI" joke, but I'll live.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:23
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Zore posted:Temple Guard are up there to tbh. I actually think they aren't, unless you're playing as Mazi - for a tier 5 unit they are actually poor contenders for black orcs and chosen, who are both only tier 4. Chosen will absolutely mulch them 1 on 1, the MA/MD differences is nuts. Chosen have 15 MA and 22 MD on Temple Guards, silver shields, more armor, etc etc. Temple Guards main benefits are higher unit count (100 vs 80), excellent bonus vs large, solid AP, and the ability to be led by a lord that can heal them. TG will absolutely wreck enemy cav/monsters, and do so significantly better than Chosen of any kind against that threat. But in terms of being an heavy shock troopers? Chosen own that title HARD. Note that all of this can change up depending on specific factions/lords/research - even Grave Guard can get pretty scary under the right circumstances against other similar tier stuff, but on average, Chosen > All other heavy infantry.
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Sep 4, 2021 20:55
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TaintedBalance posted:I actually think they aren't, unless you're playing as Mazi - for a tier 5 unit they are actually poor contenders for black orcs and chosen, who are both only tier 4. Chosen will absolutely mulch them 1 on 1, the MA/MD differences is nuts. Chosen have 15 MA and 22 MD on Temple Guards, silver shields, more armor, etc etc. Temple Guards main benefits are higher unit count (100 vs 80), excellent bonus vs large, solid AP, and the ability to be led by a lord that can heal them. TG will absolutely wreck enemy cav/monsters, and do so significantly better than Chosen of any kind against that threat. But in terms of being an heavy shock troopers? Chosen own that title HARD. Note that all of this can change up depending on specific factions/lords/research - even Grave Guard can get pretty scary under the right circumstances against other similar tier stuff, but on average, Chosen > All other heavy infantry. Wait, how do Temple Guard do better against cav/monsters than Chosen halberds? They have -35 armor, -5 MA, -18 MD, -2/-2 damage, and -10 bonus vs large. They also have less health per model, though more health total. Their only advantages are a minutely faster attack, 20 more models, and a bronze shield. And, I suppose, faction access to healing. Im willing to believe it i just am curious how it plays out since something like tomb scorpions or doomflayers do better than expected thanks to their animations. I do think that Chosen are appropriately the best heavy infantry in the game. Shame the game generally shits on heavy infantry but...oh well. Whoever linked the TWW stats website was wonderful btw. New thought; I've never finished a chaos campaign. Should I now or just wait for wh3? Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 21:15
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I've barely played WOC but I brought them to a multi game and my unit of Chosen wrecked 3 lesser units of infantry Theyre pretty ridiculous
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Sep 4, 2021 21:33
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Temple Guards (and lizardmen infantry in general) have always felt a good amount weaker than the likes of Orcs. I wish Kroxigors could climb walls, so I wouldn't feel compelled to bring Saurus to ensure the archers don't just turn around and shoot them up their assholes. I guess I just don't use infantry in most races as more than screens for ranged, so the only two races I really know the Feel of their infantry are lizards and orcs.
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Sep 4, 2021 21:45
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I got all the single player achievements in game 2 on Thursday, but I've never touched multiplayer before. Where should I start, because the in game match finders are reportedly rear end?
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Sep 4, 2021 22:07
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Ravenfood posted:Wait, how do Temple Guard do better against cav/monsters than Chosen halberds? They have -35 armor, -5 MA, -18 MD, -2/-2 damage, and -10 bonus vs large. They also have less health per model, though more health total. Their only advantages are a minutely faster attack, 20 more models, and a bronze shield. And, I suppose, faction access to healing. Im willing to believe it i just am curious how it plays out since something like tomb scorpions or doomflayers do better than expected thanks to their animations. I do think that Chosen are appropriately the best heavy infantry in the game. Shame the game generally shits on heavy infantry but...oh well. You're welcome! And I was referring to just baseline Chosen, should have been more clear. Chosen with pokers will definitely outperform the TG against cav/monsters, Lord/heroes not considered.
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Sep 4, 2021 22:10
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Dr Christmas posted:I got all the single player achievements in game 2 on Thursday, but I've never touched multiplayer before. Where should I start, because the in game match finders are reportedly rear end? Join the goon Discord and make friends with overtures like "Wanna spar for kicks, total MP newbie?" If you really just want the cheevos then you can get them from a friend throwing in matches you host with them. In game MMing is OK if you accept that you're fighting a pool of players primarily populated by people who cared enough to not start a new campaign and want to fight something smarter than the AI, but they also want to win so they'll use MP specific metas or even cheesiness. If you don't know what to do about 2 heroes and a LL on flying mounts running into your caster LL like a sniper rifle round then MP will be a bit of a rude awakening. Zerk has a great and fast summary of new to MP basics. It seriously helps cover for campaign brain. Then there's Turin for bite-sized 10-15 minute solo rounds of MP that he covers like an announcer to help you understand why matches played out the way they did and what the big meta of the moment(or not) is in that particular match-up. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 22:35
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Zedhe Khoja posted:whens the next WH3 info drop? feels like it's been ages Technically they said September, so optimistically next week (since Troy just dropped on Steam with the Mythos patch, and they don't want to step on that), or pessimistically September 30th at 11:59:59pm BST. Realistically? We don't know. Sometime this month. They've been quiet so as to not step on Troy's toes.
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Sep 4, 2021 23:52
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TaintedBalance posted:You're welcome! And I was referring to just baseline Chosen, should have been more clear. Chosen with pokers will definitely outperform the TG against cav/monsters, Lord/heroes not considered. I think the confusion was that you said "Chosen of all kinds," which would seem to include Halberd and Great Weapon variants. But yeah, the problem with Temple Guard is that even in their specific super elite niche of anti-large, they're kind of mediocre. Chosen Halberds obviously massively outperform them, but going by the stats Phoenix and Black Guard outperform them as well. They beat Tomb Guard Halberds, but that's not terribly impressive. Possibly Polearm Depth Guard too, but that unit is tiny. Their positive is that they've got a shield unlike most (Tomb Guard Halberds actually get a better shield), but most of the others also have much more armor in the first place.
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