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HookedOnChthonics posted:gently caress off. the current world state of affairs was not inevitable and was not dictated by 'natural laws' or whatever; the whole nasty/brutish/short state of nature meme is perpetuated by capital because it benefits capital, not because that's how human beings actually act when society is stripped away No one ever remembers the skeletons of 80-year-olds who were carried around by their tribes for multiple decades after more-or-less healing from fatal trauma. 
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Sep 4, 2021 06:50
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HookedOnChthonics posted:gently caress off. the current world state of affairs was not inevitable and was not dictated by 'natural laws' or whatever; the whole nasty/brutish/short state of nature meme is perpetuated by capital because it benefits capital, not because that's how human beings actually act when society is stripped away humans have been selfishly shaping the environment for their own needs and priorities since time immemorial, often at the expense of almost everything else. there's no doubt whatsoever that capitalism dialed that poo poo to infinity, but the modern era is hardly the only one where we disappeared entire forests and made species go extinct via hunting and habitat destruction, for example.
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Sep 4, 2021 07:21
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:humans have been selfishly shaping the environment for their own needs and priorities since time immemorial, often at the expense of almost everything else. there's no doubt whatsoever that capitalism dialed that poo poo to infinity, but the modern era is hardly the only one where we disappeared entire forests and made species go extinct via hunting and habitat destruction, for example.
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Sep 4, 2021 07:27
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:humans have been selfishly shaping the environment for their own needs and priorities since time immemorial, often at the expense of almost everything else. there's no doubt whatsoever that capitalism dialed that poo poo to infinity, but the modern era is hardly the only one where we disappeared entire forests and made species go extinct via hunting and habitat destruction, for example. gently caress off back to dnd also capitalism turbocharged it and it would've been manageable otherwise. capitalism is only good at resource extraction
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Sep 4, 2021 07:46
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Homocow posted:plastic pollution is the thing that cracks my brain the hardest
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Sep 4, 2021 07:49
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capitalism is also good at maximizing misery for a lot of people
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Sep 4, 2021 07:50
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Judakel posted:capitalism is only good at resource extraction BEATEN BY NANOSECONDS 
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Sep 4, 2021 07:50
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now now, capitalism is also good at perpetuating an aristocracy with its ideological veil of strictly nominal meritocracy
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Sep 4, 2021 07:54
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:humans have been selfishly shaping the environment for their own needs and priorities since time immemorial, often at the expense of almost everything else. there's no doubt whatsoever that capitalism dialed that poo poo to infinity, but the modern era is hardly the only one where we disappeared entire forests and made species go extinct via hunting and habitat destruction, for example. not to entirely overly-romanticize indigenous america because there were certainly some environmental self-destruction (albeit, usually coupled with long-term droughts or extreme weather so it's hard to say whether the desperation to survive ramped it up and they 'collapsed' anyways or what), but i think it's pretty safe to say globally we had lived a more indigenous-americas style then the biosphere would be completely unequivocally fine today. yeah there'd be some localized reshaping or what not, but not to extent it'd wipe out entire biosphere. Now we wouldn't have had >8 figures of humans on the planet for a lot of reasons under that because the human-boom was driven by external energy sourced through fossil fuels and mega environmental destruction to keep it going and there are some crazy proponents who say we should have 20 billion people and it's perfectly fine. anyways to get back to it, no. fire isn't the problem
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Sep 4, 2021 08:13
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Libs love to tell themselves that if we stop making stupid plastic poo poo and stop driving personal vehicles everywhere that we'd all be living like starving undeveloped country folk so we can't possibly do anything useful to stop climate catastrophe. "maybe don't drive everywhere" I CANT BELIEVE YOU WANT TO END MODERN MEDICINE. gently caress YOU ECO FASCIST /ban
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Sep 4, 2021 08:24
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I watched Bright Green Lies yesterday. It was ok. Seemed like an important piece on the folly of renewable energy. But it has some big flaws, in my eyes. For one, I wish it had gone into more detail and presented more numbers. The segment on hydropower was literally 90 seconds long. Would have loved to hear more about that. A lot of claims are made about what dams do but no examples are given. How do they destroy the region downriver? How badly do they impact fish migrations? How much methane is produced? Bizarrely, the show doesn't mention the amount of concrete that goes into building dams, despite mentioning concrete production elsewhere. More numbers would have been great. How much land has been flooded? How many GW do dams produce? Gimme the dam numbers!! The most glaring omission from the "hydro" segment is that wave power is not mentioned at all. While the implied message throughout the first half was "reduce energy consumption" slowly morphing into "stop industrial civilization", I had to roll my eyes when it eventually took its final form, "let's all go back to hunter gathering". I recognise that Agriculture Was a Mistake an actual viewpoint some hold (including in this thread) but it's just complete bollocks. The idea that farming is never sustainable under any circumstances can get in the bin. Finally a little lol at the opening scene with the guy breaking into a solar panel farm. "why have they got a fence around it? what don't THEY want you to know??" It's a fence dude, they don't want people getting in and breaking/stealing poo poo
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Sep 4, 2021 08:49
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:I watched Bright Green Lies yesterday. i agree it wasn't very good, i watched it live and i said pretty much as much. the more paper-based equivalent of BGL that Rime linked does a better job of numbers ,or at least a citation when it summarizes so you can find it https://scarp.ubc.ca/sites/scarp.ubc.ca/files/energies-14-04508%20%283%29.pdf (i also have a lot of similar BGL-esque issues with this one; i.e. feels like a lot of absolute insignificant details given significance than is warranted in trying to be more length-listy, but overall does a lot better job) if you want a large breakdown of hydro https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-73250-3.pdf
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Sep 4, 2021 08:59
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strange feelings re Daisy posted:Stop it you fuckers, I don't want new forms of plastic on my food, I want it gone completely.
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Sep 4, 2021 10:55
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i wonder where along the line the microplastics enter the food chain. some of it seems obvious; i’m curious to know why / depressed by the fact that beer is apparently on the high end
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Sep 4, 2021 11:13
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I guess that's why my beer is free. 
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Sep 4, 2021 11:52
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what if becoming a locust is like becoming a bimbo
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Sep 4, 2021 11:57
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mediaphage posted:i wonder where along the line the microplastics enter the food chain. some of it seems obvious; i’m curious to know why / depressed by the fact that beer is apparently on the high end at this point it's floating around in the air and rain and snow and wildfire ash and probably enters the food chain at all points globally
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Sep 4, 2021 12:12
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all bimbo know is swarm, eat hot chip and fly
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Sep 4, 2021 12:29
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Did anyone put carbon credits on the blockchain yet? Sounds like a good idea, the credits would cancel out the co2 from mining them making it carbon neutral
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Sep 4, 2021 12:47
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RIP Syndrome posted:Did anyone put carbon credits on the blockchain yet? Sounds like a good idea, the credits would cancel out the co2 from mining them making it carbon neutral https://nftrees.com/ quote:The base-level NFTree costs $10 and represents the following:
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Sep 4, 2021 13:24
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HookedOnChthonics posted:gently caress off. the current world state of affairs was not inevitable and was not dictated by 'natural laws' or whatever; the whole nasty/brutish/short state of nature meme is perpetuated by capital because it benefits capital, not because that's how human beings actually act when society is stripped away I think the current state of affairs was inevitable once fossil fuels were discovered
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Sep 4, 2021 16:27
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mediaphage posted:i wonder where along the line the microplastics enter the food chain. some of it seems obvious; i’m curious to know why / depressed by the fact that beer is apparently on the high end Beer cans, and all cans, have a small layer epoxy (typically BPA) on the inside of the can to inhibit corrosion or loss of carbonation. There's a reason that cans don't rust from the inside anymore despite containing corrosive materials. Beer doesn't really need the epoxy layer to prevent corrosion, instead it needs it to prevent the loss of carbonation. But yeah, that's where it comes from.
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Sep 4, 2021 16:37
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yeah everything is sprayed with a layer of plastic now its crazy
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Sep 4, 2021 16:40
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coat my lungs in plastic like saran wrap keeping out the covid
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Sep 4, 2021 16:45
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I'd joke about the superiority of glass beer bottles here but I wouldn't be surprised if some or all of those were also plastic-coated for little real reason E: Like, in theory, glass is one of a very few materials competitive with/superior to plastic for generic food-grade storage purposes, why wouldn't we gently caress that up somehow
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Sep 4, 2021 16:47
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Shady Amish Terror posted:I'd joke about the superiority of glass beer bottles here but I wouldn't be surprised if some or all of those were also plastic-coated for little real reason the caps already have plastic for the same reason cans do, unless you're fully fancied up getting those 750ml 83x mega brewed by belgian monastics kind of beers and they use non-synthetic corks and wire cages.
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Sep 4, 2021 16:50
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Nah, glass isn't coated with plastic, that'd be a waste of money. Cans really do need to be coated if you want them to last any reasonable amount of time. Tomatoes would rust through a can in a few days, same with most fruit. Some energy drinks can't even be canned because they eat through the coating anyway.
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Sep 4, 2021 16:50
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theoretically wines and beers with cork corks should be relatively plastic free. Maybe the kind of bottles with clamps use vulcanized rubber tree latex instead of plastic? There's weird closures that are basically glass stoppers and stuff but that's old era poo poo and probably isn't used outside of lab glass or something like that. I can only assume all booze that isn't home made at some point passes through plastic pipes or metal ones that are plastic/teflon sealed anyway
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Sep 4, 2021 16:58
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:coat my lungs in plastic Bubble Boy but the plastic is inside my body protecting me while slowly making me go insane
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Sep 4, 2021 16:59
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SniperWoreConverse posted:theoretically wines and beers with cork corks should be relatively plastic free. Maybe the kind of bottles with clamps use vulcanized rubber tree latex instead of plastic? There's weird closures that are basically glass stoppers and stuff but that's old era poo poo and probably isn't used outside of lab glass or something like that. Most home brewers use plastic at some point in the process
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Sep 4, 2021 17:02
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yeah i mean hypothetically you could avoid it. I brew and still use silicone tubes and seals. I don't have apple trees or bees or any source of sugars I can get on my own so I end up buying something that's inevitably packed or bottled in plastic.
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Sep 4, 2021 17:04
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The modern beer can is both a miracle of ingenuity and a total condemnation. That aluminum could be going to important alloys or something. The can itself has the mechanism used to open it. It's both impossible to reuse and easy to recycle. The amount of material is mathematically minimized and it's incredibly well designed knowing it will likely become garbage. A strange artifact of a strange culture.
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Sep 4, 2021 17:12
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SniperWoreConverse posted:The modern beer can is both a miracle of ingenuity and a total condemnation. That aluminum could be going to important alloys or something. The can itself has the mechanism used to open it. It's both impossible to reuse and easy to recycle. The amount of material is mathematically minimized and it's incredibly well designed knowing it will likely become garbage. A strange artifact of a strange culture. do they make real important aluminum things out of the same class of aluminum or is, like, some aluminum better than others
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Sep 4, 2021 17:15
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Cloks posted:I'm reading the collapse of western civilization by naomi oreskes and erik m. conway after seeing it recommended in the thread [...] unfortunately, it's further crack pinged me. wait until you read the sections on neoliberalism and market fundamentalism l o l also free book copy for everyone here: https://gailepranckunaite.com/Naomi%20Oreskes-The-Collapse-of-%20Western-Civilization-2014.pdf
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Sep 4, 2021 17:18
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mdemone posted:do they make real important aluminum things out of the same class of aluminum or is, like, some aluminum better than others Some is better than others. Not a metallurgy goon but you get a gently caress ton of slag off beer cans, but beer cans are a better stock than ore? Aeronautical or structural aluminum beams are p strictly tested I think. Plus it's used in other alloys like aluminum copper bronze is better than other kinds of bronze for some things e: my understanding is that with some stuff if you have like .02% of too much iron or carbon or whatever in the aluminum you just completely hosed an insanely expensive thing, which doesn't matter for cans, but all aluminum comes from the same rocks in the first place anyway. SniperWoreConverse has issued a correction as of 17:32 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 17:22
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:
fixed ideology doesn't make the world run, energy and other material resources do
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Sep 4, 2021 17:25
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Hubbert posted:ideology doesn't make the world run, energy and other material resources do yeah population growth has been fueled (heh) by energy and we're now in overshoot but ideology still imposes a hierarchy on the world and the dominant ones allow people closer to the top benefit more from those energy and material resources imho anyway
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Sep 4, 2021 17:42
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silicone thrills posted:Libs love to tell themselves that if we stop making stupid plastic poo poo and stop driving personal vehicles everywhere that we'd all be living like starving undeveloped country folk so we can't possibly do anything useful to stop climate catastrophe. being anti car is abelist because people with disabilities require cars to get around, checkmate nothing better is possible unless you want to be a malthusian nazi, embrace the collapse of society happening soon b/c doing anything about it wokely is impossible
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Sep 4, 2021 17:53
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Cold on a Cob posted:yeah population growth has been fueled (heh) by energy and we're now in overshoot sorry but by pointing all of this out, you are now a malthusian ecofascist who needs to be cancelled ASAP
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Sep 4, 2021 18:13
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gay_crimes posted:being anti car is abelist because people with disabilities require cars to get around, checkmate nothing better is possible unless you want to be a malthusian nazi, embrace the collapse of society happening soon b/c doing anything about it wokely is impossible being anticar is racist because minorities have been forced into ghettos far away from jobs, services, and food, with insufficient public transit, infrastructure, and political support. if you take their cars they will be stranded with no recourse. please do better, you nazi.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:14
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