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The surprise moral of Deltarune There is nothing wrong with killing personified versions of playing cards and computer viruses, they aren't real. However video game characters are real and you WILL go to hell for hurting Yoshi or Papyrus Undertale. Therefore you should do the b-side story until you get the thornring for crafting, but cancel it before killing Berdly. (I don't actually think this is the direction it will go)
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Sep 22, 2021 18:28
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Oxyclean posted:Spamton for Smash
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Sep 22, 2021 18:29
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I wouldn’t say my speculation is that it’d be a good ending. Just that there might be a ending based on the prophecy being very specific about balance. It just depends what it defines balance in this world as or if it’s a red herring. Like if the game doesn’t have three endings I’ll be surprised a bit based on Undertale’s 3. And the fact that Undertale had all the novelty of having your save files mattering to each other.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:36
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Oxyclean posted:Hairbrained theory: From a couple pages ago but yeah I like this. Wasn't there a snowglobe mentioned in the BadNoelle route? A whole world trapped inside a snowglobe, eh?
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Sep 22, 2021 18:41
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Oxxidation posted:there doesn’t seem to be anything that constructive on Snowgrave even in a subversive way. noelle isn’t stronger by the end of Snowgrave, she’s a shambling wreck who witlessly freezes everything in her path and isn’t going to be much better in the real world. meanwhile the power of friendship makes Susie into more of a juggernaut than she’d been just waving her axe everywhere  
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Sep 22, 2021 18:41
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Weird BIAS posted:Like if the game doesn’t have three endings I’ll be surprised a bit based on Undertale’s 3. And the fact that Undertale had all the novelty of having your save files mattering to each other.  
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Sep 22, 2021 18:43
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Your Computer posted:well...... this has been on the Deltarune FAQ since day 1 
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Sep 22, 2021 18:44
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Yeah, okay, that is in an important update. You must be able to pet the dogs in a future chapter.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:46
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Hogama posted:It's the alley where you can get the Pink Ribbon, just examine the poster. Well that explains it, I missed the Pink Ribbon too and thought it was in Chapter 1 for some reason. I certainly didn't waste any time combing over chapter 1 again trying find it. 
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Sep 22, 2021 18:47
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Your Computer posted:well...... this has been on the Deltarune FAQ since day 1 So then snowgrave and no kill runs get the same ending. I mean fine but I don’t think that implies a great ending for anyone. E: beateeeen Weird BIAS fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 18:48
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Your Computer posted:well...... this has been on the Deltarune FAQ since day 1 But iunno, I guess there probably won't be anything quite as widely divergent or special as UT....or the ending is the same because the world gets destroyed or something. But like, how everyone feels or where they end up, will still be a matter of your actions and the paths you take getting there. Unrelated: https://twitter.com/thekilinah/status/1440717850923048960?s=20
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Sep 22, 2021 18:49
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Question: why doesnt ralsei turn to stone Theory: The dark prince in the legend isnt Ralsei. It's Lancer. Basically Im gonna be sad but expect a Ralsei heel turn or unexpectedly die E: whoops used to discord
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Sep 22, 2021 18:52
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I don't think the "one" ending is that important of a detail. Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 had only one ending (ejected from the vault & enclave destroyed, respectively), but the actions you take along the way have huge impacts on the people and places you meet along the way and can make the epilogue vary wildly. I'm betting that whatever ending you get, it's still going to matter what you did along the way.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:53
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Weird BIAS posted:So then snowgrave and no kill runs get the same ending. I mean fine but I don’t think that implies a great ending for anyone. I mean, the ending could be that the player leaves. Whether that's due to their working being done, by all of the characters banding together to throw him out, or something else completely is what your choices could bring you to. To jump into the speculation pool: I think that there's going to be 3 endings like before, but this time 2 bad and 1 good. 1) The alternate path has to have a bad ending; I know Toby loves to mess with expectations, but I would be shocked if he made the alternate path the good path. 2) I think there's going to be a bad ending if you try to make all the "good" choices. Being overly coddling to Noelle, trying to push her and Susie together and not trying to strengthen your friendship with Susie are all things that I don't think Kris would do, and cause NPCs to comment that it's unlike Kris. The more attention the player brings to themselves by acting "un-Kris" like, I think will lead to a bad ending, regardless of the player's intention because it still requires you to treat Kris like a puppet. 3) Finally then, the good ending will be if you let Kris be Kris. Regardless of the circumstances that lead you to be able to force Kris around, it doesn't give you the right to. The game goes out of its way to show you that Kris is their own person, like the other characters. Maybe if you force him to take action to protect himself, or react to a danger he can't see, but by the by I think you get the good ending by treating Kris as a person and not a puppet.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:01
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Regarding the idea that Kris and Ralsei are working together against the player, and Ralsei knows the player is a separate entity, I think it's worth taking a long hard look at the dialogue Ralsei has with you in the swan boat
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Sep 22, 2021 19:03
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Captain Stalin posted:I mean, the ending could be that the player leaves. Whether that's due to their working being done, by all of the characters banding together to throw him out, or something else completely is what your choices could bring you to. yeah that's exactly what I'm thinking, puppet themes and all
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Sep 22, 2021 19:05
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It'd feel weird if picking dialogue options got you a bad ending. Deltarune's already longer than Undertale if you try to hoover up every secret, and we're only two chapters in. That's a way bigger ask for someone to rerun. I could see a modified Chapter Select upon beating the game that lets you redo certain decisions, maybe. But if we don't get that, there's no chance we get significantly divergent endings. There's way too much game to beat for that.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:08
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Here's another idea, What if the puppeteer is someone else unseen, forcing Kris to remove the heart and do things? It'd explain the jerky motions and whatnot. Not sure how that'd figure into Kris' relationship with the player but, it's a possibility
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Sep 22, 2021 19:11
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Question: why doesnt ralsei turn to stone Because he's from the pure fountain, whatever that means. It's special in some way at least. I wonder how old the other two worlds are. Have they been created recently with a story to help their worlds make sense or has that history played out? Or have they existed for as long as their corresponding rooms and a fountain doesn't create them but allows access from the light world?
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Sep 22, 2021 19:12
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The Bee posted:It'd feel weird if picking dialogue options got you a bad ending. Deltarune's already longer than Undertale if you try to hoover up every secret, and we're only two chapters in. That's a way bigger ask for someone to rerun. I think it'll likely be an invisible meter or something. You can't be expected to know 100% what Kris would do, and I think that there will be some decisions that hold more weight than others, but a good faith effort would be enough. I think it would undermine the game's theme's pretty hard if you could just go back and change some page containing all the choices you could make in the story.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:13
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I don’t think there’s going to be that kind of incentive in playing a convincing imitation of Kris. The way to not treat them like a puppet is to not play the game at all. Once that connection is established, we start living Kris’s life for them, and they clearly don’t give a poo poo if we’re doing a “good job.” They just want us out.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:14
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Discendo Vox posted:Regarding the idea that Kris and Ralsei are working together against the player, and Ralsei knows the player is a separate entity, I think it's worth taking a long hard look at the dialogue Ralsei has with you in the swan boat The player is an eldritch abomination and if Kris and Ralsei do not trust us they are right to do so. We're demons! Demons who take over other people's bodies and force them to eat moss and give hugs!
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Sep 22, 2021 19:17
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Oxxidation posted:I don’t think there’s going to be that kind of incentive in playing a convincing imitation of Kris. The way to not treat them like a puppet is to not play the game at all. God drat Toby the mad genius has done it again
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Sep 22, 2021 19:17
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Oxxidation posted:I don’t think there’s going to be that kind of incentive in playing a convincing imitation of Kris. The way to not treat them like a puppet is to not play the game at all. Once that connection is established, we start living Kris’s life for them, and they clearly don’t give a poo poo if we’re doing a “good job.” They just want us out. I really hope future chapters go into why you got control of Kris. Right now from what we know, we didn't have a choice. We made a vessel, it got discarded and we got control of Kris instead. Given how UT ended, the proper answer might be that you shouldn't play the game to be 'good'; but if you didn't take some form of control, then it seems unlikely that the chapter 1 fountain would be sealed and everything would be hosed.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:17
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Yeah, I just don't see "you coddled Noelle by being nice to her during chapter 2" being something that factors into an important part of the conclusion of the story. Like, maybe there could be something like, if Susie and Noelle end up together being something with variability, but I also do not see the game admonishing you for supporting Noelle's crush on Susie. To suggest that it's "bad" because it's not what Kris would want is still weird because it's what Noelle wants.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:18
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Oxxidation posted:I don’t think there’s going to be that kind of incentive in playing a convincing imitation of Kris. The way to not treat them like a puppet is to not play the game at all. Once that connection is established, we start living Kris’s life for them, and they clearly don’t give a poo poo if we’re doing a “good job.” They just want us out. They don't want us out, not yet. They invited us. They have plans for us. Kris wanted us here, but as is typical with summoning demons it's questionable whether they'll be able to control us. We're the cenobites in this story, and Kris done solved the puzzle box!
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Sep 22, 2021 19:20
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I interpreted the prophecy as you're saving Ralsei's dark world and bringing it into balance. The "earth" dies, but we're not saving that; we're saving the "world"
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Sep 22, 2021 19:23
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Oxyclean posted:Yeah, I just don't see "you coddled Noelle by being nice to her during chapter 2" being something that factors into an important part of the conclusion of the story. It's not bad that Noelle wants it, but it could be seen as bad if the player takes Kris's agency to force them to try to make it happen. The player's intentions to make what they see as a happier world, don't outweigh Kris's right to that agency. I could see Toby trying to make this point at the end, even if it pisses people off, since it would highlight the "Hey these are people, not puppets" theme. Captain Stalin fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 19:25
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:We're demons! Demons who take over other people's bodies and force them to eat moss and give hugs! Kris wants to eat moss and give hugs, whether or not they realize it at the time. 
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Sep 22, 2021 19:28
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Captain Stalin posted:It's not bad that Noelle want's it, but it could be seen as bad if the player takes Kris's agency to force the to try to make it happen. The player's intentions to make what they see as a happier world, don't outweigh Kris's right to that agency. I feel like if that's the point, Kris wouldn't be happy either way. Either you're doing things they'd never do, or you're doing things they wish they could do but are forced to observe instead. If there really is a final showdown with Kris, I can see both interpretations standing. The real decision I think would be whether you relinquish control willingly at the end, or continue parasitically infesting Kris' life.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:31
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The Bee posted:I feel like if that's the point, Kris wouldn't be happy either way. Either you're doing things they'd never do, or you're doing things they wish they could do but are forced to observe instead. If there really is a final showdown with Kris, I can see both interpretations standing. Maybe, that could also be totally valid. I would be disappointed if this all boiled down to a single final choice at the end though.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:37
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I'm skeptical that Toby would require anyone to play the game three times to get anything significant after Undertale came out, Toby has been talking to Yoko Taro
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Sep 22, 2021 19:38
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Kris wants to eat moss and give hugs, whether or not they realize it at the time. kris is now canonically excited for moss
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Sep 22, 2021 19:39
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Captain Stalin posted:It's not bad that Noelle want's it, but it could be seen as bad if the player takes Kris's agency to force the to try to make it happen. The player's intentions to make what they see as a happier world, don't outweigh Kris's right to that agency. But presumably if Kris wanted agency, they wouldn't let us hang around? Or they'd do more to stop us....? Like, I get the impression there's a certain degree of symboticness - Kris wants to be pupetted to a degree, sort of like Frisk in the first game. Kris being Kris isn't totally working out for them. Maybe they may have never gotten to be good friends with Susie or had a bunch of adventures without our help. "You are bad or selfish for controlling this character" is a theme that almost feels to cynical to me, though, I do see the nature of "us" and "Kris" does seem like something that will absolutely be contended with.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:40
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it’s just a crappy idea to tie ending reactivity to something so vague. for instance: what would Kris rather choose, Bosom or Perish? their mangy zoomer butt is quite enthusiastic about perishing, but surely it’s not out of the question they would sardonically praise the bosom. both chapters are riddled with moments like that
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Sep 22, 2021 19:42
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Captain Stalin posted:Maybe, that could also be totally valid. I would be disappointed if this all boiled down to a single final choice at the end though. I think the decisions, big and small, you make along the way are going to make a huge impact. I just don't think we're going to be getting ending differences on the level of Undertale's big three endings, especially for a much longer, harder to replay experience. Something more akin to all the Neutral route calls with Sans seems more likely to me.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:43
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Mr. Maggy posted:after Undertale came out, Toby has been talking to Yoko Taro haha, gently caress
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Sep 22, 2021 19:43
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Fabricated posted:The tea thing is such a giveaway of the group dynamic I'd almost say it's a mistake to have it in there. From a couple pages ago, but it's interesting that Susie is clearly Kris' favourite, yeah, even over their longtime friend from childhood. She's even the only one they seem at all enthusiastic about taking to the festival. I wonder why that is?
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Sep 22, 2021 19:44
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Has Kris always had as much guts as Susie? I feel like at one point they only had one guts, while Susie has always had two. E: whoops I guess attached images always show up full size at the bottom of the post dunno how to make it less big
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Sep 22, 2021 19:45
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Flesnolk posted:From a couple pages ago, but it's interesting that Susie is clearly Kris' favourite, yeah, even over their longtime friend from childhood. She's even the only one they seem at all enthusiastic about taking to the festival. I wonder why that is? Because Kris agrees that Susie is the best character, obviously.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:47
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