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Something I just thought of there's no way the group project is actually getting done by the end of the game, right?
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Sep 28, 2021 02:05
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Caidin posted:How does Kris keep being late for class if Toriel works there and gets them up and drives them there herself? Look at this loving nerd, doesn't know how to skip class LOL
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Sep 28, 2021 02:05
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Is going to turn out that the journeys to the dark world were the group project all along
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Sep 28, 2021 02:06
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Electric Phantasm posted:Something I just thought of there's no way the group project is actually getting done by the end of the game, right? Noelle will do the entire thing for Suzie in a single night.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:06
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Caidin posted:How does Kris keep being late for class if Toriel works there and gets them up and drives them there herself? they walk really slow
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Sep 28, 2021 02:07
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So during the Susie and Noelle scene it seems telling her she’s in the Dark World makes Noelle think the whole thing is a dream for the entire rest of the chapter. How does she react if you tell her she’s in Queen’s castle?
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Sep 28, 2021 02:09
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Larryb posted:So during the Susie and Noelle scene it seems telling her she’s in the Dark World makes Noelle think the whole thing is a dream for the entire rest of the chapter. How does she react if you tell her she’s in Queen’s castle? giving susie a direction in a susie scene never changes any outcome iirc
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Sep 28, 2021 02:14
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kaleedity posted:giving susie a direction in a susie scene never changes any outcome iirc Ah, so it’s the same result no matter what you pick then. Makes sense.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:15
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ImpAtom posted:Noelle will do the entire thing for Suzie in a single night. Alternatively Asgore does it for Kris. Kris takes the F instead.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:23
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Also is anything different about the Giga Queen battle at the end if you go full pacifist or do you still have to fight your way through regardless?
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Sep 28, 2021 02:24
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Larryb posted:Also is anything different about the Giga Queen battle at the end if you go full pacifist or do you still have to fight your way through regardless? I went Fight all the way on Giga Queen in addition to the Punch Out segments and didn't notice anything amiss from an otherwise complete pacifist run. It's just like the battle against the King at the end of Chapter 1. It seems like chapter final boss battles are the only ones you're allowed to go ham on with no consequence to your run.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:33
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Larryb posted:Also is anything different about the Giga Queen battle at the end if you go full pacifist or do you still have to fight your way through regardless? Nah you have to fight no matter what, the only thing that changes is the pre fight cutscene is longer. It's kind of interesting (alternate route spoilers)both route final bosses are kinda similar. You're in a 1v1 against someone not using their original body, where your only option is to fight, and at the end they pull out some bullshit that puts you at a disadvantage and have to be saved by Noelle.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:35
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Sep 28, 2021 02:43
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Electric Phantasm posted:Nah you have to fight no matter what, the only thing that changes is the pre fight cutscene is longer. I also like that the Punch-Our style game you play near the beginning turned out to literally be training for the finale (I assume the other robot variations have their own unique ACT move as wel)
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Sep 28, 2021 02:47
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Larryb posted:I also like that the Punch-Our style game you play near the beginning turned out to literally be training for the finale (I assume the other robot variations have their own unique ACT move as wel) I can't wait to replay from chapter 1 and find out what the duck machine does
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Sep 28, 2021 02:48
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I can't wait to replay from chapter 1 and find out what the duck machine does It reduces your attack power but also heals you a bit at the cost of 50 TP. What did your version do out of curiosity? Larryb fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 02:56
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Larryb posted:It raises your attack power at the cost of 50 TP (the first hit heals you a bit as well). What did your version do out of curiosity? I got laser mode, which increased my punching speed for a turn
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Sep 28, 2021 03:02
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I can't wait to replay from chapter 1 and find out what the duck machine does i think it has "sucky attacks" which does less damage but absorbs HP
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Sep 28, 2021 03:17
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I hate that I get this.
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Sep 28, 2021 04:20
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i think it has "sucky attacks" which does less damage but absorbs HP That’s correct, yes
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Sep 28, 2021 04:28
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Macaluso posted:I really want to know why Kris become a shambling zombie when he takes his soul out. Did we just override the one he had in the first place? By all accounts Kris was a perfectly normal (to a point) kid until we play the game. The thing is the cage obviously implies he's taken the soul out before. I just wanna know why Kris be actin' a fool when his soul is out!! I stopped reading the thread once the game came out, because I knew it would take me a couple of days to get around to it. Now I have, and I'm all caught up, and it's MY turn for theorizing, damnit! Prediction the first: There will be no Frisk, no Chara, no Gaster, and probably no Flowey in Deltarune. Gaster himself is a weird cryptid that most people would really know about even through repeated normal playthroughs of Undertale and Deltarune. Only the dataminers and the people who immerse themselves in the fandom would have knowledge of that, and I don't think Toby Fox is so masturbatory as to make that a significant plot point. I feel like it kind of cheapens things to just loop everything back to "It was secretly UNDERTALE all along!" and I really don't want them to show up. Same with the metaphysical things, like DETERMINATION, monster dusting, etc. All that stuff is just carry over baggage from Undertale. I love Undertale, don't get me wrong, but Toby and his team have done such an incredible job designing an engrossing world and writing such endearing characters with Deltarune that I feel the game deserves to stand on its own merits. It's inherited the DNA of Undertale, but Deltarune isn't beholden to its legacy. The idea of Gaster/Chara being the main antagonist or the player, or Kris being a fusion of Frisk and Chara or whatever, all of it just seems self-referentially cheap and gross. Kris isn't Frisk, and they aren't Chara. Kris is Kris. Who exactly Kris is, we're still learning, but they are their own person. Prediction the second: I don't buy into the idea that Kris and the player necessarily have a hostile antagonistic relationship to each other (usually), because I don't like the idea that interacting with a medium of art in literally the only way that I am capable of makes me some kind of guilty villain. I don't think Toby Fox is mean-spirited enough to pull a Spec Line: The Ops on us. I also don't think that we are the lone influence on Kris: We know that Kris, Asriel, December, and Noelle used to all hang out together and explore in the woods behind the graveyard. We know that Kris and Noelle like each other and had a good relationship (in a weird kid sort of way, but good nonetheless). We know that Kris and Noelle have grown distant. Noelle's nostalgic for the way things used to be. We suspect that December is either missing, or dead. After reading this thread, I'm all onboard with the Missing theory, and if we want to tie it into Asgore's departure from the police force, that puts it at about 2(?) years ago. Plenty of time for kids to grow apart from one another. Plus, Asgore running the search for Dess and coming up empty handed seems like exactly the kind of thing he would beat himself up over for the rest of his life; my guess is that he wasn't fired, but that he resigned in self-targeted shame. We know that Kris, Asriel, Dess, and Noelle were into occult stuff. I don't think they actually summoned demons or spells; it was probably just that usual teen dalliance with satanism that kids from small towns do when growing him. You know. Goth Topic poo poo. We know that something happened to Kris in or near the creepy bunker behind the graveyard. Snowy and Monster Kid talk about it in the Ch. 2 postgame and it upsets, Kris, prompting Susie to scare the bejeesus out of them in Kris' defence (she is so cool). And we know that Kris has been tearing out their soul for some time. When I add all that up, what it makes me think is that Kris, Dess, Asriel, and Noelle got involved with something in that bunker. And I think that, whatever it is that happened there, it made Dess disappear. It traumatized Noelle; she clearly has PTSD, and she may be repressing her memories of it. Her reaction to being told to cast SnowGrave read less to me like she was ignorant of the spell, and more like she was in denial of it. An accident of some kind, that she may or may not have been responsible for? We don't know how it may have affected Asriel, if he was even there, but we haven't seen enough of him to be able to make any educated guesses. And I think whatever happened down there, it put Kris in contact with, and under the influence of, Something Else. I think that's when Kris started tearing out their soul (which I do believe is their soul, not some transplant). When Kris tears out their soul, I don't think that's them freeing us from the Player's influence. I think that's them being possessed and taken over by Something Else. I think that's the Knight. It explains why they shamble around like a zombie when it happens. They're not themself, then, and even if they try, they can't resist that control. They've been being puppeted by the Knight for years now, and after the emotional shock of losing Dess, withdrawing from their friend group, and seeing Asriel leave, it left them too emotionally vulnerable and hurt to resist it. Depression's a helluva thing. The player has only existed in Kris' life for a day and a half, and I don't know if that's enough time for Kris to develop such a terrible antipathy for control that they would shiver and yell in anguish after seeing the parallels to themself in Spamton. I really don't think it's our control that Kris resents and fears. It's the Knight's. The thing that's had a hold of them ever since their life took an unexpected turn for the worse, all the way back in that bunker so many years ago. The thing that they're now afraid they cannot exist without, so low is their opinion of themself. So why did the Player suddenly appear in Kris' life, at the start of Chapter 1? It happened at the same time as the opening of the First (second?) Dark Fountain. The one Kris had already entered, given the presence of a save. Ralsei tells us that the role of a Darkner is to make the Lightners happy. Maybe that's our job. Maybe our purpose is to help Kris. To compete against the influence of the Knight, and to prop Kris up and help them, to build them back up, to reconnect them with their friends, and to draw them out of their withdrawn depression, until they can stand on their own legs. I don't know if we, the player, are a Darkner, or an angel, or what. We may get more concrete answers in later chapters, or we may not. But I think we're supposed to help. That's another dimension in which I think SnowGrave is really hosed up; we're supposed to be a helping hand to Kris, but instead we're just another Knight, using Kris for our own ends as we pursue our obsession with The New Girl. The whole SnowGrave route gave me some real bad 'Abusive Boyfriend' vibes. But I don't want to be a source of agony for Kris. I don't want the only way to interact with DeltaRune to be as an agent of cruelty and manipulation. I really, really, really hope that this is a story where we, the player, can be good. Where we can help, and heal, and nurture, and support, and defend. I know Ralsei's aware of us, and hiding something from us, and from the rest of the party, including Kris, but I don't think he's bad. I think he's got his reasons for what he's doing. It's probably true that Kris hasn't fully opened up to him yet, but some people really are genuinely just that cloyingly sweet and nice. <END_SPECULATION> And that's my big theory of everything. I'm probably wrong. But I hope I'm right about some things. Either way, I can't wait to find out. If I misgendered Kris anywhere in that huge ramble, please let me know. I didn't mean to. And speaking of misgendering, does anyone know if there's a way to edit the save such that we can change the name of the Castle Town? It's been nearly 3 years since I last played DeltaRune. A lot's changed since then, and that's... not really my name anymore. 
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Sep 28, 2021 04:33
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Katsuma posted:Prediction the first: There will be no Frisk, no Chara, no Gaster, and probably no Flowey in Deltarune. Gaster himself is a weird cryptid that most people would really know about even through repeated normal playthroughs of Undertale and Deltarune. Only the dataminers and the people who immerse themselves in the fandom would have knowledge of that, and I don't think Toby Fox is so masturbatory as to make that a significant plot point. I feel like it kind of cheapens things to just loop everything back to "It was secretly UNDERTALE all along!" and I really don't want them to show up. Same with the metaphysical things, like DETERMINATION, monster dusting, etc. All that stuff is just carry over baggage from Undertale. I love Undertale, don't get me wrong, but Toby and his team have done such an incredible job designing an engrossing world and writing such endearing characters with Deltarune that I feel the game deserves to stand on its own merits. It's inherited the DNA of Undertale, but Deltarune isn't beholden to its legacy. The idea of Gaster/Chara being the main antagonist or the player, or Kris being a fusion of Frisk and Chara or whatever, all of it just seems self-referentially cheap and gross. Kris isn't Frisk, and they aren't Chara. Kris is Kris. Who exactly Kris is, we're still learning, but they are their own person. I feel like there's enough direct evidence (the use of Gaster's Theme as a lietmotif, smile.ogg coming out of our cell phone and implied to be what corrupted Spamton) of Gaster's involvement that he's gonna be A Thing in the game. And honestly for Gaster specifically? I don't find that much of a problem. In the context of Undertale, the Gaster stuff was an homage to dummied out content; meanwhile Deltarune had its roots in a pre-Undertale project of Toby's that he had abandoned, so in away "abandoned concepts" link both of them together (heck I bet the Gaster stuff in Undertale was supposed to also be stealth Deltarune foreshadowing, given that Toby had started up proper production of DR prior to to UT being finished). Now what you said with regards to Frisk/Chara? yeah I'm on the same wavelength as you; at absolute most you could say "maybe Kris is the DR-verse equivalent to Frisk and/or Chara" without having to get the actual UT Frisk/Chara involved. Katsuma posted:And speaking of misgendering, does anyone know if there's a way to edit the save such that we can change the name of the Castle Town? You can mess around with the saves with notepad (the save files are in the appdata folder)
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Sep 28, 2021 05:01
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Katsuma posted:I don't know if we, the player, are a Darkner, or an angel, or what. We may get more concrete answers in later chapters, or we may not. But I think we're supposed to help. That's another dimension in which I think SnowGrave is really hosed up; we're supposed to be a helping hand to Kris, but instead we're just another Knight, using Kris for our own ends as we pursue our obsession with The New Girl. The whole SnowGrave route gave me some real bad 'Abusive Boyfriend' vibes. Regarding our relation to Kris and Ralsei, I don't think we're an agent of manipulation or torment, at least we're not FORCED to be by the narrative (though as the whole Snowgrave thing shows, we certainly have the potential to be). To a degree, it almost seems like the characters are manipulating US. They certainly don't trust us. We the Player are working on intentionally incomplete or outright wrong information. Ralsei knows more than he's willing to discuss in our presence, and Kris seems to as well, and they communicate with each other when we're not watching them. They seem willing to tolerate our presence, because presumably being a Player Character allows them to accomplish more than they could otherwise. But they will wrench themselves out of our control and reduce themselves to a shambling soulless husk for a brief period when they want to do things they don't want us to know about and that they might suspect we would mess up if we were given the chance. Like whatever Kris did at the end of Chapter 1 other than just eating pie, or the tire slashing and portal opening in Chapter 2. Kris is in a fairly unique position as a fictional character of having an agenda of their own seperate from us the player, which they don't entirely trust us to not somehow sabotage. We the player are not necessarily a villain, and neither is Ralsei or Kris or whoever, but there's the possibility that whatever is really going on, if we knew about it and had full control of everyone involved, we would try and stop it, and they don't want us to. On another note, what are the odds that when Asriel gets back from college he's in goth edgelord Boss Asriel mode because he did that thing straight-laced kids from kinda uptight religious households do sometimes where they have freedom for the first time in their lives and go way overboard?
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Sep 28, 2021 05:04
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:I feel like there's enough direct evidence (the use of Gaster's Theme as a lietmotif, smile.ogg coming out of our cell phone and implied to be what corrupted Spamton) of Gaster's involvement that he's gonna be A Thing in the game. And honestly for Gaster specifically? I don't find that much of a problem. In the context of Undertale, the Gaster stuff was an homage to dummied out content; meanwhile Deltarune had its roots in a pre-Undertale project of Toby's that he had abandoned, so in away "abandoned concepts" link both of them together (heck I bet the Gaster stuff in Undertale was supposed to also be stealth Deltarune foreshadowing, given that Toby had started up proper production of DR prior to to UT being finished). Now what you said with regards to Frisk/Chara? yeah I'm on the same wavelength as you; at absolute most you could say "maybe Kris is the DR-verse equivalent to Frisk and/or Chara" without having to get the actual UT Frisk/Chara involved. Also Toby lowkey announced Deltarune's development to the world by straight up quoting Gaster, "I think my next project will be something much... Darker." Nobody had any idea what he was talking about at the time, but it was a big giant neon flare signal that he was gonna do something specifically tied to Gaster. And as stated, Gaster's theme buried in the data of Undertale is "HIM.ogg". And the first thing you hear in Deltarune aside from the startup noise is "ANOTHER HIM.ogg".
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Sep 28, 2021 05:12
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And the survey part of the survey program at the beginning is piled to the brim with gaster references, from speaking style, to the musical backing, to the terminology used. At least until the screen turns black, then all that goes away and we get the flat affect, passive voice characteristic of the Undertale narrator, with neutral basic text sound effect. Whoever exactly is narrating, whether it's Toby, "us", the main character, Chara, whatever, they directly interceded and interrupted a dialogue we were having with someone very strongly implied to be gaster. What exactly the survey program was surveying will come up in a later chapter, and when it does, so will gaster.
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Sep 28, 2021 05:27
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Disappointing if true. I'd much rather have a new antagonist, rather than one whose deal we already basically know.
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Sep 28, 2021 05:40
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Katsuma posted:Disappointing if true. I'd much rather have a new antagonist, rather than one whose deal we already basically know. Uh OK dude what is Gaster's deal.
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Sep 28, 2021 05:41
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Why would you assume Gaster would be an antagonist?
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Sep 28, 2021 05:42
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Sep 28, 2021 05:48
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How terrible it would be if Toby were to elaborate on a character that people are very interested in and curious about.
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Sep 28, 2021 05:52
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Dr Pepper posted:Uh OK dude what is Gaster's deal. Science-person from Undertale's backstory who did some hosed up experiments and got ejected from the bounds of reality and became weird.
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Sep 28, 2021 05:54
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This game rules, it's my favorite isekai now. It's really cool how Toby looked at Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and said 'Wow, I could do that way better!' and then did. Even if he had to make cutscenes out of IF statements to prove it. Terper posted:Why would you assume Gaster would be an antagonist? The second Gaster gets a body, he's eating 17 pies. Pies that Toriel baked for Kris and their friends. What an rear end in a top hat, that W.D. Gaster. Also my speculation is that this is a time loop and Kris used DETERMINATION to restart things from the week before Asriel gets back. I base this on nothing but the save point having their name on it in Ch 1. and this one starting off and having the message 'It is not time to wash your hands yet' when you examine the sink at the beginning of Ch 2. How did you know you were going to wash your hands at that sink later? It's all been planned out, you see. RareAcumen fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 05:57
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So monsters turn to dust when they die right? What's up with Berdly then? Also I didn't get into Undertale until way too late and it's been a blast catching up. Can't get the soundtrack out of my head
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Sep 28, 2021 06:02
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I've never understood the notion some people have that Gaster is/would be an antagonist. The vibe I get is that he is just a nice old mad scientist who made a mistake with metaphysical spacetime bullshit and really wants to fix it and find his way back into reality so he can see his grandsons again.
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Sep 28, 2021 06:05
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dyzzy posted:So monsters turn to dust when they die right? Before monsters die of natural causes they "Fall Down" and essentially slip into comatose state before passing. Plus he might just be in a coma.
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Sep 28, 2021 06:06
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i don't think gaster's the angel. he doesn't seem angel-y.
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Sep 28, 2021 06:07
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Fortis posted:I've never understood the notion some people have that Gaster is/would be an antagonist. The vibe I get is that he is just a nice old mad scientist who made a mistake with metaphysical spacetime bullshit and really wants to fix it and find his way back into reality so he can see his grandsons again. It's the gaping hole in the story we've been presented so far. We have heroes, supporting cast, villainous mooks... But the big questions we don't have answered are "Who is making this happen? Who is driving these events?" and "Why?" Questions that would be answered, narratively speaking, by an antagonist. I can't think of a narratively satisfying explanation that includes Gaster. It's fine if other people wanna see that mystery explored, or are crossing their fingers for his inclusion. It's just that, personally, I just think it'd be a step backwards, which would be a real shame considering how great the steps DeltaRune has put forward have been. Dr Pepper posted:To answer your question That's Undertale, though. The metaphysics of Deltarune may be -- and most probably are -- different. Valcione fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 06:12
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Randomly: we know the prophecy is that 2 lightners and a prince of the dark save everyone, but that's totally not our main 3 is it? It's lancer, Susie and someone, right?
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Sep 28, 2021 06:12
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ikanreed posted:Randomly: we know the prophecy is that 2 lightners and a prince of the dark save everyone, but that's totally not our main 3 is it? It's lancer, Susie and someone, right? I think it specifies human and monster, and pickin's are awfully thin for a different human
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Sep 28, 2021 06:14
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ikanreed posted:Randomly: we know the prophecy is that 2 lightners and a prince of the dark save everyone, but that's totally not our main 3 is it? It's lancer, Susie and someone, right? Yeah, at first I assumed it was Kris, Susie, and Ralsei but now I’m starting to think that might not be entirely true (though as mentioned above, there aren’t really any other humans around that we’ve seen and Kris is the main character).
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Sep 28, 2021 06:15
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