(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Roguelite is typically defined as having unlocks that make future runs easier, so if you’re not very good you’ll likely get a win eventually. For roguelikes, learning the game mechanics is the whole point and you don’t get any meta currencies or unlocks to help you. So Hades is a roguelite because you can buy and upgrade stuff between runs. Dungeons of Dredmor a roguelike because you have to learn the abilities and different systems to get a build good enough to beat the final boss. This puts games like Binding of Isaac in a weied spot because it has unlocks, but your character never improves, and some of the items just make the item pool worse. And some unlocks just flat-out make the game harder. What I’m saying is we should call everything an RPG.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:40
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| # ? May 21, 2024 17:35 |
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Arc Hammer posted:I can't remember the name of a youtube channel. Who was the lady who had the video about the film 1917 and how she couldn't stop watching it during the COVID lockdown? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a9HaeQhf7k
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Oct 5, 2021 01:43
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That's the one. Thanks.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:47
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Ghostlight posted:slay the spire, as a game that is turn-based and takes place on a grid of encounter squares and features permadeath, is obviously a rogue not a roguelike. Thank you, that's right. Darkest dungeon has a similar problem where not only is there permadeath, but permadeath of many characters. So it's actually more rogue than rogue. A rouger.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:23
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A retro rogue A retrogue? A roguetro?
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Oct 5, 2021 02:30
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Darkest Dungeon is obviously an XCOM(or Cannon Fodder for Euros)-like due to its emphasis on squad management and unit permadeath overseen by an undying player character who acts as commander, as opposed to the Rogue formula of a player character whose death permanently ends that particular campaign. This also means that Liberal Crime Squad (itself based on Rogue's fellow ASCII RPG Oubliette) and Dwarf Fortress, despite being some of the closest formal neighbors to Rogue, are not actually Rogue-likes.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:41
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My least favorite genre name was action-adventure.
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Oct 5, 2021 03:07
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Roguelike is one of the terms that I actually think will be replaced by one of those mechanics-specific generic titles, as it's become increasingly less useful in communicating genre beyond "involves or invokes the idea of permadeath in some way". And "lite" doesn't help because it just creates a broader pool of potential meanings. It might be something like "Traditional Roguelikes" or "Berlin Roguelikes" for things like Rogue, Nethack, and DCSS, something like "Run-Based Game" for things like Spelunky and FTL (with traditional roguelikes and deckbuilders being established subgenres), and something like "Run-Based Metaprogression Game" (the metaprogress is the game) for things like Rogue Legacy. As always, genre is descriptive rather than prescriptive and the borders are porous. For instance, while Hades has metaprogression I'd think of it more as a run-based game than a run-based metaprogression game as the metaprogress matters less and less after the initial power spike.
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Oct 5, 2021 03:07
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Microcline posted:Roguelike is one of the terms that I actually think will be replaced by one of those mechanics-specific generic titles, as it's become increasingly less useful in communicating genre beyond "involves or invokes the idea of permadeath in some way". And "lite" doesn't help because it just creates a broader pool of potential meanings. counterpoint: 'run-based metaprogression game' is four words and 'roguelite' is one
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Oct 5, 2021 03:11
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enjoyed Jenny's ramble video but i wonder if she's going to end up a dozen incomplete videos deep before she manages to finish one. we went from beanie babies to barbie to evermore to now dear even hansen
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Oct 5, 2021 03:15
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dmboogie posted:counterpoint: 'run-based metaprogression game' is four words and 'roguelite' is one RBMG, metaprogresser, I'm not in charge of naming things and we figured out how to deal with "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game". The problem with "roguelite" is that the only thing it unambiguously communicates is that the game doesn't strictly follow the Berlin Interpretation, which is a space with everything from Slay the Spire to Rogue Legacy. And that's before attempting to untangle what "roguelike" itself has come to mean.
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Oct 5, 2021 03:45
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Anyone a fan of James Somerton? Just got his newest video in my recs and it was a very good exploration of the toxicity and deviance of queers in media and the incredibly hosed up and complex relationship our community has with that that goes way deeper than 'gays monsters good/bad???' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDgWHNDdwoU Any of his other vids especially good? I've just now started looking and he seems up my alley for queer media analysis.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:20
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Pants Donkey posted:My least favorite genre name was action-adventure. imagine, if you will, an action game - a game where things happen - but there's a character saying one-liners during it.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:38
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sexpig by night posted:Anyone a fan of James Somerton?
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Oct 5, 2021 04:39
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I've only seen his one on Harry Potter (and one other that I can't remember) but I like what I've seen and keep meaning to check out more. yea his Harry Potter fan video is next on my list to watch just because 'queer who loved Harry Potter growing up absolutely crushed to find JK is a goddamn lunatic' is big relatable.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:41
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His video where he dissects Killing Stalking and analyzes why so many people view it as a romance instead of a horror story is really loving good, too (though content warnings apply, obviously).
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Oct 5, 2021 05:14
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I figure Roguelike means death is a permanent end and Roguelites have upgrades to make the loss of progress sting less. Though this makes me associate roguelikes with real groggy games and roguelites with most every modern interpretation as a result.
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Oct 5, 2021 05:15
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Pants Donkey posted:My least favorite genre name was action-adventure. Mine is immersive sim, which is basically the current generations action-adventure except with extra pretentiousness.
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Oct 5, 2021 05:43
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I Before E posted:Darkest Dungeon is obviously an XCOM(or Cannon Fodder for Euros) UFO: Enemy Unknown, AND we bloody invented it. How dare you get Euro games wrong. I mean for gently caress'S sake (/s)
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Oct 5, 2021 05:44
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Hel posted:Mine is immersive sim, which is basically the current generations action-adventure except with extra pretentiousness. Yeah "immersive sim" is a pretty terrible description of what it refers to.
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Oct 5, 2021 05:49
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I feel like rogue like/lite still gives you the gist of the feel of the game, and doesn't really need changing.
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Oct 5, 2021 06:07
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Yeah "immersive sim" is a pretty terrible description of what it refers to. Would you rather they be called Shocklikes? 0451-ers? Tactical Espionage Action? Kim Justice posted:UFO: Enemy Unknown, AND we bloody invented it. How dare you get Euro games wrong. I was not aware it was a British studio that created Enemy Unknown, but lo and behold. Learn something every day, I guess. I Before E fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 06:46
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Ghostlight posted:mine's "character action" I mean character action is pretty clear about what games it means though, Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, God Hand, Revengeance, (In the HD era) Ninja Gaiden, God of War and similar, open combat with a high operation ceiling and often focusing on combos and learning just how hard you can style on enemies with intentional emphasis on making you feel cheesy action cool while you pull stuff off. It has a pretty defined niche because otherwise action games don't often incentivize you to SMOKIN SICK STYLE your way through it and get super intricate whether for fun or to lab monster it out, especially with something like God Hand where you outright get to play build-a-combo to do so, they're distinct enough to deserve a name. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 07:50
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I Before E posted:Would you rather they be called Shocklikes? 0451-ers? Tactical Espionage Action? This show the problem a bit. It's not the name "immersive sim" it's that it's used for too broad a thing. It's simultaneously a rebranding of the Stealth Game genre, a way to give prestige to FPS games with systems beyond "shoot gun" and also just means "Action-Adventure I like".
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Oct 5, 2021 07:53
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Pants Donkey posted:My least favorite genre name was action-adventure. checking off the action-adventure box in the Steam database to narrow my search down to only 95% of the games released in recorded history
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Oct 5, 2021 07:53
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I Before E posted:Would you rather they be called Shocklikes? 0451-ers? Tactical Espionage Action? Pretty sure they even called it UFO because of the heavy inspiration it took from the Gerry Anderson TV show of the same name. Man I should watch that again.
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Oct 5, 2021 08:41
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UFO was a loving great show.Yardbomb posted:they're distinct enough to deserve a name.
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Oct 5, 2021 09:10
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Red Metal posted:impressive, a definition of roguelike that excludes the game it's named after Well it can't be like itself That said I remember reading once that apparently most roguelikes are more nethacklikes
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Oct 5, 2021 10:31
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Ghostlight posted:So distinct they got a name which is "exciting stuff happens and there's a person involved" Yeah and it describes what they are fine because you know what it means because it's describing a very certain subset of games.
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Oct 5, 2021 11:20
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It literally doesn't describe them. Just because you know what's in the set of "character action" games doesn't mean the genre is well described by the name "character action". The genre might as well be called Devil Mayonetta.
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Oct 5, 2021 11:36
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Ghostlight posted:The genre might as well be called Devil Mayonetta. Sounds good to me
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Oct 5, 2021 12:02
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In a certain sense, the "character" in "character action" performs the same function as the "mascot" in "mascot platformer", in that the Vibe of the main character, your Dante/Bayonetta/Viewtiful Joe, is central to the appeal of the work, in a way a term like "combo fighter" doesn't describe. Even though both games have complex fighting systems that incentivize chaining together combos of multiple hits, Tekken is not The King Game in the same way Bayonetta is The Bayonetta Game. Even though it should be, I can't believe Nina Williams got a solo game and not King.
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Oct 5, 2021 12:19
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"Action Adventure" makes sense if you delineate it from adventure games: it's a genre of action-centric games with adventure game-like exploration and puzzle-solving. As such, it is the term "adventure game" that should be be derided, not "action adventure". 
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Oct 5, 2021 13:52
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Immersive sim is a perfectly cromulent genre name.
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Oct 5, 2021 14:16
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Pants Donkey posted:Roguelite is typically defined as having unlocks that make future runs easier, so if you’re not very good you’ll likely get a win eventually. For roguelikes, learning the game mechanics is the whole point and you don’t get any meta currencies or unlocks to help you. Are they though? IIRC, the continues progression between runs was actually something a lot of people took issue with, with the hallmark of a "pure roguelike" being that there is absolutely nothing retained and each run is a completely new, independent and random experience. So something more like Angband or Nethack.
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Oct 5, 2021 14:42
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JordanKai posted:"Action Adventure" makes sense if you delineate it from adventure games: it's a genre of action-centric games with adventure game-like exploration and puzzle-solving. As such, it is the term "adventure game" that should be be derided, not "action adventure". Adventure games are actually adventure-likes there was an old game called Adventure. This hole goes deep.
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Oct 5, 2021 14:51
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Dogs Must Die from Yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z16u69pN_hs Man we are nearly over with Stardust Crusaders
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Oct 5, 2021 15:58
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e X posted:Are they though? IIRC, the continues progression between runs was actually something a lot of people took issue with, with the hallmark of a "pure roguelike" being that there is absolutely nothing retained and each run is a completely new, independent and random experience. So something more like Angband or Nethack. e: I wanna say Shiren the Wanderer back in 1995 introduced the concept of meta progression by having the warehouse and blacksmith, so that's where the splitting off started... another earlier roguelite would be Azure Dream for the PS1 where you had the town building, dating, and familiars/equipment keeping their stats as long as you can escape the dungeon with them. But I'm ignorant of the PC scene for the genre since I'm not really a fan of either like or lite. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 16:36
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The vanilla ice fight in Jojo is a weird tone change because we meet Dio’s elite group and they’re mostly jokers who don’t end up as much of a threat besides the Bird and Sword, then he shows up and takes out a third of the cast without much effort.
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Oct 5, 2021 16:39
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| # ? May 21, 2024 17:35 |
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It's not a true roguelike unless you suffer massive head trauma and total amnesia prior to playing, and it procedurally generates entirely new gameplay systems each time you boot it up.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:26
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