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it's specifically the oath rod, yeah. they associate it as a thing from working with the power because they're like one of the few major forces of channelers operating in the land at that point and nobody else is really there to challenge that assessment. at the very least any groups of unrelated channelers do it in secret and don't really make it known that they're as such, like the windfinders and whoever else. but the oath rod puts such a strain on them that it halves their lifespan and also gives that weird ageless look over time for whatever reason. it's also why siuan loses the look when she gets stilled, the oaths are broken on her and so is the oath rod's effects overall
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Oct 16, 2021 02:13
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It does feel like the Oath Rod facelift thing may have been a late decision, though, because as Vavrek said Urien mistook Verin for a Wise One because she had the look of those who had been to Rhuidean. That was relatively early in TGH, right? Makes sense that not every detail of the Aes Sedai was hammered down yet. Urien's statement could be read as her carrying herself like a Wise One, I guess, but it sure doesn't seem like it. Egwene having the ageless face but knowing she hadn't held the oath rod was definitely a result of her dream reality and real reality blending in the test, though.
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Oct 16, 2021 02:21
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What are they doing for the "ageless face" for the TV show? I always took it to mean that you couldn't place their age, not that they looked perpetually young. Are all the Aes Sedai going to look ~20 in the show?
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Oct 16, 2021 02:25
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Sounds like they aren’t gonna bother with it. I always pictured it like youngish face with very smooth skin that glows a little.
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Oct 16, 2021 02:29
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Nitrousoxide posted:What are they doing for the "ageless face" for the TV show? I always took it to mean that you couldn't place their age, not that they looked perpetually young. Are all the Aes Sedai going to look ~20 in the show? Nothing.
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Oct 16, 2021 02:29
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Invalid Validation posted:Sounds like they aren’t gonna bother with it. I always pictured it like youngish face with very smooth skin that glows a little. Honestly, not a terrible plan. If they hope to tell the whole story the cast is going to visibly age over the course of it.
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Oct 16, 2021 02:35
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Nitrousoxide posted:What are they doing for the "ageless face" for the TV show? I always took it to mean that you couldn't place their age, not that they looked perpetually young. Are all the Aes Sedai going to look ~20 in the show? As the wheel turns, I thought the ageless face in this age would be the botox instagram face many celebrities and influencers tend to have.
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Oct 16, 2021 02:39
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yeah, the topic about the face stuff came up earlier and mostly the takeaway is that it makes no sense for them to burn a bunch of money on special effects needed to make something truly uncanny that also doesn't look weird and half-assed, and have it be something they have to do for a very large assortment of actors who will be frequently showing up. just one of those things that has to be sacrificed for the live action medium.
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Oct 16, 2021 02:43
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CainsDescendant posted:It does feel like the Oath Rod facelift thing may have been a late decision, though, because as Vavrek said Urien mistook Verin for a Wise One because she had the look of those who had been to Rhuidean. That was relatively early in TGH, right? Makes sense that not every detail of the Aes Sedai was hammered down yet. Urien's statement could be read as her carrying herself like a Wise One, I guess, but it sure doesn't seem like it. I could swear at some point in 5 or 6 while Rand/Egwene are around the Wise Ones all the time it gets mentioned pretty often how a few of the Wise Ones have the same look, or something like it. Can't think of an exact example though, but I've been through them in the last month on audiobook.
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Oct 16, 2021 03:12
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Pleads posted:I could swear at some point in 5 or 6 while Rand/Egwene are around the Wise Ones all the time it gets mentioned pretty often how a few of the Wise Ones have the same look, or something like it. Can't think of an exact example though, but I've been through them in the last month on audiobook. The power makes you age way longer but the face thing is the oath rod squeezing the skin. that's why aes sedai have half the life span
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Oct 16, 2021 03:18
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Pleads posted:I could swear at some point in 5 or 6 while Rand/Egwene are around the Wise Ones all the time it gets mentioned pretty often how a few of the Wise Ones have the same look, or something like it. Can't think of an exact example though, but I've been through them in the last month on audiobook. Actually I think you're right in some way, https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Oath_Rod#Ageless_Look quote:Ageless Look Barreft fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Oct 16, 2021 |
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Oct 16, 2021 03:23
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Pleads posted:I could swear at some point in 5 or 6 while Rand/Egwene are around the Wise Ones all the time it gets mentioned pretty often how a few of the Wise Ones have the same look, or something like it. Can't think of an exact example though, but I've been through them in the last month on audiobook. One of the wise ones is mentioned to have very pale, basically white hair but a very youthful face which Rand/Egwene mention as being an unsettling combination akin to agelessness. Can't recall which one. That's probably what you're thinking of? I went through the series within the last few months myself and that's the closest I can think of. and yeah how agelessness is described in the books is basically any middle aged actor irl, we don't find it unsettling because we're used to everyone on tv looking that way.
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Oct 16, 2021 03:28
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Modern cosmetics in a premodern era = magic
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Oct 16, 2021 03:38
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Johnny Joestar posted:yeah, the topic about the face stuff came up earlier and mostly the takeaway is that it makes no sense for them to burn a bunch of money on special effects needed to make something truly uncanny that also doesn't look weird and half-assed, and have it be something they have to do for a very large assortment of actors who will be frequently showing up. just one of those things that has to be sacrificed for the live action medium. Same with the warder cloaks. Cool thing in the books, but there's very little point actually spending CGI money on that. Especially since they aren't really important or crucial at any point. Yeah, Lan is good at being sneaky, but the Aiel do that just fine without magical cloth - you don't need the fancy cloaks to have Lan capable enough of sneaking into the Whitecloak camp or whatever.
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Oct 16, 2021 03:44
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Barreft posted:Actually I think you're right in some way, CainsDescendant posted:One of the wise ones is mentioned to have very pale, basically white hair but a very youthful face which Rand/Egwene mention as being an unsettling combination akin to agelessness. Can't recall which one. That's probably what you're thinking of? I went through the series within the last few months myself and that's the closest I can think of. So some combination of correct, wrong, and unreliable narrator. I'll take it!
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Oct 16, 2021 03:49
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Pleads posted:So some combination of correct, wrong, and unreliable narrator. I'll take it! That's the Wheel! Always churning
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Oct 16, 2021 03:50
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CainsDescendant posted:Egwene having the ageless face but knowing she hadn't held the oath rod was definitely a result of her dream reality and real reality blending in the test, though. Barreft posted:That's the Wheel! Always churning
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Oct 16, 2021 04:06
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CainsDescendant posted:we don't find it unsettling because we're used to everyone on tv looking that way. Case in point: Rosamund Pike.
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Oct 16, 2021 04:16
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CainsDescendant posted:One of the wise ones is mentioned to have very pale, basically white hair but a very youthful face which Rand/Egwene mention as being an unsettling combination akin to agelessness. Can't recall which one. It's Amys.
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Oct 16, 2021 05:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, Sanderson is "good" but for me at least it's the difference between, say, Kubrick's Apocalypse Now and, say, Captain America: Civil War. Ive watched both and enjoyed both but they aren't on the same level. I want to live in the alternate timeline where Gene Wolfe was selected to finish the novel. The guy served in Korea and is probably the best American fantasy author in history and was very good at tying plots together. I think the dialog between the Dark One and Rand in his hands might actually have ended up better than how Jordan had originally intended it.
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Oct 16, 2021 14:05
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Please GoFundMe my series of seances to finish Wheel of Time from the only legitimate source via medium.
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Oct 16, 2021 14:06
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Please GoFundMe my series of seances to finish Wheel of Time from the only legitimate source via medium. moving to south carolina to embark on a decades-long project to Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote the final wheel of time books
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Oct 16, 2021 14:21
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Something I was really not a fan of was Rand and the rest of his male channelers getting a haram of slave aes sedai as things started getting close to wrapping up.
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Oct 16, 2021 14:29
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eke out posted:moving to south carolina to embark on a decades-long project to Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote the final wheel of time books I'm going to become the Also, my Ouija board is doing more wpm than GRRM
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Oct 16, 2021 14:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, Mat's comedy under Jordan character driven -- "I'm no hero, I'm not a lord" (wears lace) (marries nobility) (constantly does heroic things because GODDAMMIT those idiots need help). Basically Mat has zero self-insight and that's his charm. He's a good dude who thinks he's selfish and wants to be selfish -- which we can all identify with -- but keeps on doing the right and necessary thing anyway. That Siuane story she tells him about her uncle and a fire is one of the most recognizable pieces of dialogue in the whole saga. That and, "kneel. Or be knelt.".
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Oct 16, 2021 14:50
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Shageletic posted:That Siuane story she tells him about her uncle and a fire is one of the most recognizable pieces of dialogue in the whole saga. I've been thinking of building a WoT quotes file. Just short one-liners that don't mean much to non-fans, but make fans of the series just go "gently caress." as they flash back to that moment. The one which keeps coming to mind (which, now that I check my ebook, I have a bit wrong): "I remember dying. I remember how I did it." The exact line from the book is: Knife of Dreams, ch. 19: Vows posted:I seem to remember dying, Lews Therin murmured. I remember how I did it. He drew deeper still, and small pains grew in Rand’s temples.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:00
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Nitrousoxide posted:Something I was really not a fan of was Rand and the rest of his male channelers getting a haram of slave aes sedai as things started getting close to wrapping up. That's a pretty big mischaracterization, IMO.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:21
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One of my favorite little exchanges is more comedic. In the first book after Perrin and Egwene visit the Tinkers with Elyas there’s a little back and forth about how an older Tinker woman was teaching Egwene how to be a woman. Perrin remarks that no one teaches men how to be men and Egwene says that’s probably why you do such a bad job of it.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:23
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Crini posted:One of my favorite little exchanges is more comedic. In the first book after Perrin and Egwene visit the Tinkers with Elyas there’s a little back and forth about how an older Tinker woman was teaching Egwene how to be a woman. Perrin remarks that no one teaches men how to be men and Egwene says that’s probably why you do such a bad job of it. its a great line and super true lol
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Oct 16, 2021 15:25
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Nitrousoxide posted:Something I was really not a fan of was Rand and the rest of his male channelers getting a haram of slave aes sedai as things started getting close to wrapping up.  never forget the box
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Oct 16, 2021 15:33
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How are u posted:That's a pretty big mischaracterization, IMO. How would you characterize it?
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Oct 16, 2021 15:59
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I thought it was a pretty clear way of demonstrating that things were hosed because one gender had been dominating the world for three thousand years and had grown arrogant and incompetent because of it and equilibrium needed to be restored. I don't think it was presented as a good thing and the way that things should be, I think it was presented as a first step towards regaining equality. Especially since it was followed by men and women starting to mutually bond each other.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:14
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"harem" is wildly inaccurate for the ones following Rand, what the hell. It's never even obliquely implied that there's any sort of sex thing going on. "Slave" is more arguable I guess given that they swore an oath to him, but because of how strong the ta'veren effect is you could say that there was no choice involved making the oath. The sisters that move against the black tower and get captured are prisoners, sure, but there's still no remote implication of anything like creepy harems going on. I guess one of them deciding to sleep with Logain to get information out of him is the closest it gets? That's a huge reach though.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:19
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the series very bluntly uses bonding as a metaphor and goes through multiple scenarios involving various events such as rand getting bonded against his will, something very widely despised by all who hear about it, and poo poo like lan's bond getting passed off to someone unrelated entirely which annoys and frustrates everyone involved the black tower bonding aes sedai to keep them from trying to kill them is also never portrayed as a positive thing but at the least it's also not some weird sex thing going on. there's literally a direct juxtaposition shown where they're not being compelled to do anything of the sort, with one sister showing bewilderment at another one sleeping with logain but it just turning out that she basically feels like it and is also trying to get information out of him.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:29
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WoT has a lot of interesting ideas of how to explore gender power dynamics and sexuality and society and all that but it just like, makes it 90% there. It's one reason why it's so hard to recommend to someone but absolutely fascinating to read.
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Oct 16, 2021 17:30
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Gwaihir posted:"harem" is wildly inaccurate for the ones following Rand, what the hell. It's never even obliquely implied that there's any sort of sex thing going on. Part of the weave the asha'man use to bind them includes loving them. Jordan is never direct with his prose, especially on topics of sex, but it's 100% this. There's even an "on screen" rape done by Logain.
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Oct 16, 2021 17:59
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ninjoatse.cx posted:Part of the weave the asha'man use to bind them includes loving them. Jordan is never direct with his prose, especially on topics of sex, but it's 100% this. There's even an "on screen" rape done by Logain. um no? there is a kiss involved, and they apologise and explain that they learned it that way because they initially learned to use the weaves on their wives. There is nothing whatsoever in the text to suggest anything more than that. And Logain does not rape the Aes Sedai, the text explicitly says she decided to try and seduce him for strategic purposes.
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Oct 16, 2021 18:09
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yo what bizarre book series are some of y'all reading because it doesn't sound like wheel of time
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Oct 16, 2021 18:14
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Johnny Joestar posted:yo what bizarre book series are some of y'all reading because it doesn't sound like wheel of time Someone switched the dust covers with Sword of Truth
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Oct 16, 2021 18:16
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The Lord Bude posted:um no? there is a kiss involved, and they apologise and explain that they learned it that way because they initially learned to use the weaves on their wives. There is nothing whatsoever in the text to suggest anything more than that. And Logain does not rape the Aes Sedai, the text explicitly says she decided to try and seduce him for strategic purposes. Somebody here made the point that it kind of seems like it induces an orgasm in the bonded woman, which is as far as I go in saying that the text suggests more than a kiss. But yeah, the Aes Sedai he actually has a physical relationship with was the initiator.
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Oct 16, 2021 18:26
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