|
HerniaFlange posted:Except really it's Mr. Big from NARC before he turns into his final forms. If Smash Ultimate got to have all the Captain N characters, then MK12 should bring in everyone from Power Team. This time everybody's getting splattered with tomato sauce.
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 18:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:50 |
|
|
...I think I hate Lumina. gently caress im now the old grumpy guy but between shield RPS, moon skills and the so-called neutral in this game I go online and I just hate everyone and everything, it feels like every second I have to keep 120 things in mind and I'm sure that's fun for SOMEONE but it's like I'm playing KI here and my reward for actually winning neutral is possibly dying if I don't consider all options constantly and oh hey Hisui just did 5[C] fullscreen for the fifth time I'm actually pretty sad about that, not gonna lie, it feels like when I played SFV at release. I could "git gud" and eventually learn how to handle all of that stuff but the learning process is going to be miserable, frankly. It's all the parts of fighting games I dislike. Bleh.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:02
|
|
|
I hate all games with less damage than bbtag and strive so lumina? Sorry never had a chance
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:09
|
|
|
Real hurthling! posted:I hate all games with less damage than bbtag and strive  High damage is the way to go. Gimme those 30 second or less rounds.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:11
|
|
|
The Chad High Damage - The Virgin Long Combo
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:12
|
|
|
You can have high damage long combo games though. Like uh marvel Low damage + long combos is truly hell though. I remember Them's Fighting Herds having 60-hit combos that did 25-30% only.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:16
|
|
|
I’m fine with all the other mechanics in Lumina but the shield does strike me as absolutely no fun. Not even a comment on whether it’s a well balanced system or not. I just don’t enjoy it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:20
|
|
|
To be fair I'm a low tier player and can three touch someone in Lumina now, assuming I pull off the very droppable combos. It's just not a game that plays itself. Sorry, I like Strive a lot but it is immediately clear how to play and optimize in that game. TL's development is gonna take a lot longer. Once I got optimal combos off the shields it got me engaged in the system a lot more. I do think it's the weakest aspect of the game tho.
Faffel fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Oct 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:24
|
|
|
Shield existing is OK but the fact that counter-shielding against the enemy's shield followup is the main/safest response is  design.The game really should have had some stronger non-shield ways to bait/punish it instead.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:27
|
|
|
I can't say Melty Blood is doing much for me either, and better to be marginally less bad at one game than very bad at two.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
I think it's pretty fun but I might switch off Warc because all of her better-than-3k-damage combos seem to require hard stuff like manually timed delay buttons or 5C jc IAD.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:33
|
|
|
Faffel posted:To be fair I'm a low tier player and can three touch someone in Lumina now, assuming I pull off the very droppable combos. It's just not a game that plays itself. Sorry, I like Strive a lot but it is immediately clear how to play and optimize in that game. TL's development is gonna take a lot longer. Once I got optimal combos off the shields it got me engaged in the system a lot more. I do think it's the weakest aspect of the game tho. Eh, damage isn't the problem, really, I mostly hate the neutral for this game (you pressed a button and they flashed blue? You idiot) and how shield is a pretty much meterless option that not only stops your offense but actually puts YOU in a combo...AND it can do that from two different options too!
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 22:57
|
|
|
it's still possible to use projectiles effectively despite shield but it requires constant active wariness of the possibility that the opponent will do something dumb and punishable, but which will catch you if you aren't watching for it, which is not how the power dynamics of "i, a zoner, fire a projectile at you from fullscreen" should work, at least not as a universal mechanic rather than something matchup- and meter-specific there's this unwillingness to let one player get a truly dominant position that seems endemic to modern games and isn't necessarily a total dealbreaker but is really boring i also really don't like how the game has automatic crossup protection and rising overhead prevention and all these other limitations on mixups but then apparently still somehow has high/low unblockables(?)
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 23:28
|
|
|
RPATDO_LAMD posted:Shield existing is OK but the fact that counter-shielding against the enemy's shield followup is the main/safest response is You can block or throw them
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 00:13
|
|
|
shield is a bit too universal especially at low levels, i think it should require at least a bit of meter like it did in og melty, but i dont think its nearly as dominant an option as people are making it out to be
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 00:22
|
|
|
It costs 10% of the moon gauge but only if your shield whiffs. If you successfully shield something it's free. Also moon gauge is extremely plentiful in MBTL. Basically the only time you'll commonly hit 0 on it is when your manually activated moon drive runs out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 00:24
|
|
|
I think not being able to hold it and/or having an increased recovery time would work too, at least at low levels. But the game hasn't even been out a month yet so who knows how the meta will evolve.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 00:37
|
|
|
I switched to Kouma cuz I hated shield mechanics and now the game is fun.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 01:13
|
|
|
I think if low shield didn't catch mids it wouldn't be as big of a deal
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 01:13
|
|
|
Endorph posted:shield is a bit too universal especially at low levels, i think it should require at least a bit of meter like it did in og melty, but i dont think its nearly as dominant an option as people are making it out to be It's not so much dominant as it's always there, looming, and it's relatively low-risk, high-reward, so you HAVE to keep it in mind not only on wakeup, but during rerun pressure, IAD pressure, gaps where you try to throw out specials, etc. It also makes projectiles and zoning worse overall - it's already pretty lovely to try and outspace the gorillas in this game with their win-neutral stuff, getting 3S-parried into a DBFZ vanish just makes me wanna die. Tuxedo Catfish hit it on the head there, honestly. Surprisingly enough the only two characters I really enjoyed playing were Vlov and Miyako, because Vlov commits so hard to his zoning that he can actually make it work and ignore a lot of bullshit and Miyako just jumps at you pressing buttons and combos from her throw, which makes shield way less of a worry if you're trying to get some midrange offense in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 01:27
|
|
|
RPATDO_LAMD posted:I think it's pretty fun but I might switch off Warc because all of her better-than-3k-damage combos seem to require hard stuff like manually timed delay buttons or 5C jc IAD. This is who I'm optimizing lol. They're not so bad anymore. https://youtu.be/nOqtNtUeQss I'm working off this stuff and I have all the routes down now I think. She does seem to work hard though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 01:28
|
|
|
Nutsack Rangoon posted:I switched to Kouma cuz I hated shield mechanics and now the game is fun. legitimately the best part of Kouma is going for a command grab and seeing a shield pop up
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 01:37
|
|
|
unimportantguy posted:
Its why kinda why ST a bit more enjoyable than 3v3 for me currently. Matches don't last long enough to get too mad 'or' get too invested in a single match. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Oct 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 13:09
|
|
|
Beyond shield being a powerful and universal option, I think the thing I hate most about shield is that every hit of shield, whether you're hitting it or your got the read and your opponent hit it, triggers another round of messy guessies because they can cancel into shield as well.. or NOT I'd so much prefer Shield either just give you a guaranteed punish with A or B, depending on distance, with higher scaling or a fatal counter combo for 50% with B+C (edit: and this option should probably get rid of crouch shield catching mids as well). Or make shield just a Faultless Defense/Uni style shield, maybe with a 50% metered option or something to do the counters The way it is now it's much more frustrating then most other defensive mechanics I've played with. Then we gotta talk about moon drive activation and the clash frames on moon skills with it active as well Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Oct 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 13:17
|
|
|
Dishwasher posted:Its why kinda why ST a bit more enjoyable than 3v3 for me currently. Matches don't last long enough to get too mad 'or' get too invested in a single match. It also makes comeback mechanics less necessary. The other night I had a guy in vf5 down to one pixel of health on round 5 and his comeback was to read the correct side step and whiff punish me with a 60-70% wall combo that lasted all of 2-3 seconds and left us playing chicken for match win. Even being on the receiving end of that was awesome, but I think I'd have been pretty annoyed if the match had dragged out to that point and they had access to that damage solely because they were losing that round
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 13:47
|
|
|
It's almost exactly the same problem that Soul Calibur 6 had with Reversal Edge. It's not dominant at high levels but it makes getting to high level feel loving terrible because suddenly all your pressure disappears to an option that's basically just blocking but better in almost every way. It's a real shame because MBACC is a game that my friends and I almost all universally loved playing but this just feels absolutely horrific by comparison. (The problem with going back is that the MBACC client just bricks my PC after about 10 minutes of play and i have no idea why)
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 13:53
|
|
|
Nutsack Rangoon posted:I switched to Kouma cuz I hated shield mechanics and now the game is fun. I played kouma on day 1 but the fact that this game has like 8f of throw protection on wakeup and meaty command grab actually loses to wakeup throw hosed me up so bad. Feels like to actually raw command grab anyone you need to lab a bunch of specific tick throw setups. I just want to be an ungabunga grappler and 50/50 oki people to death, I don't want to think!  OTOH he can combo into his grab and it's like the best meterless hard knockdown in the game so he gets pretty good safejump oki (complete with left/right high/low mix) anywhere on screen. Makes the grab feel more like a combo tool than a grappler pressure button.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
RPATDO_LAMD posted:I played kouma on day 1 but the fact that this game has like 8f of throw protection on wakeup and meaty command grab actually loses to wakeup throw hosed me up so bad. i hadn't even noticed / heard of this one e: i was curious what the standard is; Guilty Gear Strive has 6 (and it looks like older GGs did too), Skullgirls has 4, Super Turbo has a random amount (lol) Street Fighter V apparently only has 2? Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Oct 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
You lose your wakeup throw protection if you shield and a lot of players are just allergic to normal blocking in this game so I guess it works out anyways.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 17:28
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:
strive has 5  i thought ST had 1 always but it didn't matter in most situations because tick throw loopers' throws outranged yours and prejump was not throw invul so a proper setup was literally inescapable without an invul reversal. which honda and t-hawk could safe jump ftw. ST owns big deal fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Oct 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 17:29
|
|
|
Natural 20 posted:It's almost exactly the same problem that Soul Calibur 6 had with Reversal Edge. It's not dominant at high levels but it makes getting to high level feel loving terrible because suddenly all your pressure disappears to an option that's basically just blocking but better in almost every way. RE, esp season 1 RE, sucked yeah but shield is way worse imo. even at a low level, RE is slow to start up, very linear so its easy to dodge, has a slow recovery so its easy to whiff punish, and every character has a move that just straight up beats it for Big Damage and big meter reward tied to the same input. shield is a lot more offensive to me in how can just throw it out without thinking at low and mid levels. not a fun mechanic!
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
yeah I'm overall enjoying TL but I've mostly been playing in friend lobbies, and they're just starting to work out how powerful shield is. I hope it is reigned in somehow pretty soon
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 17:47
|
|
|
b_d posted:strive has 5 wait what does ST really have ToD throw "infinites"
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 17:50
|
|
|
RPATDO_LAMD posted:wait what It's not a true infinite if you have an invuln reversal that you can hit frame perfect every time in which case there's a random chance you might get out. ST owns.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 18:31
|
|
|
honda and thawk do, at least in the corner. boxer, ken, and sim have throw loops that might be inescapable but i don't know for sure.P-Mack posted:It's not a true infinite if you have an invuln reversal that you can hit frame perfect every time in which case there's a random chance you might get out. ST owns. t-hawk and honda's command grabs don't have a whiff animation so they can safe jump and negative edge them to block your reversal and continue the loop ftw
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 18:32
|
|
|
RPATDO_LAMD posted:wait what Super Turbo is a very dumb game in a lot of ways and this is definitely one of them. There's also like, Vega walldive loops which I forget the reason why but I think they're unblockable without an invincible reversal and that might not even be possible because he fucks up your inputs with crossup stuff or something? I dunno ST has some extremely bizarre quirks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 18:37
|
|
|
In ST for throws, the player doing a reversal throw will always win if both characters are in throw range. With O. Hawk, his tick throw OS with the DP pushes him out of the range of almost every reversal throw except Gief SPD.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 18:44
|
|
|
ST players like ST because you can just knowledge check people to death there. Don't believe their lies about footsies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 19:44
|
|
|
Dias posted:ST players like ST because you can just knowledge check people to death there. Don't believe their lies about footsies. i think that tests of execution + decision-making are best, followed by pure tests of execution, followed by tests of knowledge, but all three are good. also if anything knowledge checks are the easiest to catch up on!
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 19:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:50 |
|
|
ST players like ST because it is fun
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 20:05
|
|