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Rutibex posted:yes but without the fun of the "shooter" part definitely not an RPG either at that point. the rpg is just a long tutorial for the totally homogenous endgame
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Oct 19, 2021 12:29
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is pepsi ok posted:It was ugly, poorly designed, and had maybe the most punishingly brutal leveling system ever, but at least interesting things actually happened in it unlike theme park MMOs. I think a big problem is theme-park MMOs focus a lot on one big story that's the same every time and doesn't give you any real agency. City of Heroes is very much a theme-park MMO but got a lot of things right in that it's not got just one big story but lots of little ones throughout the level range that you can explore, and has a very open-ended and easygoing design so it's easy to go solo or put together a team and wreck everything in a colourful mess of particles and stock sound effects. It's your own action figure dress-up playground.
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Oct 19, 2021 12:31
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MMORPG's won't interest me until we can get games with procedural AI controlled entities to populate the world in a believable way alongside hand placed quests and micro narratives, and with a more systemic approach to gameplay. Right now it's all very boring looter-no-shooter dress-up lobbies, as was said. Obviously that's not going to happen anytime soon. Which is ok. There are more than enough other games to play.
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Oct 19, 2021 12:51
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Everything just takes too long in MMORPGs, you have to do everything so many times.
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Oct 19, 2021 12:53
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Caesar Saladin posted:Everything just takes too long in MMORPGs, you have to do everything so many times. Can't have you go and play something else.
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Oct 19, 2021 12:56
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I think a big problem is theme-park MMOs focus a lot on one big story that's the same every time and doesn't give you any real agency. City of Heroes is very much a theme-park MMO but got a lot of things right in that it's not got just one big story but lots of little ones throughout the level range that you can explore, and has a very open-ended and easygoing design so it's easy to go solo or put together a team and wreck everything in a colourful mess of particles and stock sound effects. It's your own action figure dress-up playground. Yeah, what makes City of Heroes such a great theme park is that it actually feels more like a theme park, in that it has a bunch of different attractions to have fun with rather than just one big critical path. The game does try to guide you from area to area but each area has its own set of smaller comic book superhero stories to do, and it also makes the longer questlines that you can encounter more special because they're not the default (and also something you can just totally not do if you would rather level somewhere else). I also love that it's a game where non-healing support and crowd control builds are really valuable and fun to play. That era of MMOs almost completely died out with WoW's release and while I can understand why some games don't have them, I still miss that aspect of teamwork builds like that could allow for.
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Oct 19, 2021 14:40
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switch is the best console because I can play Into the Breach and take a bath at the same time
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Oct 19, 2021 15:50
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Vashro posted:switch is the best console because I can play Into the Breach and take a bath at the same time  dont drop it!
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Oct 19, 2021 16:09
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itry posted:MMORPG's won't interest me until we can get games with procedural AI controlled entities to populate the world in a believable way alongside hand placed quests and micro narratives, and with a more systemic approach to gameplay. Right now it's all very boring looter-no-shooter dress-up lobbies, as was said. If a game advertises procedural randomly-generated quests I already know it's poo poo chock-full of samey filer.
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Oct 19, 2021 22:34
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procedurally generate some bitches.
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Oct 19, 2021 23:00
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:If a game advertises procedural randomly-generated quests I already know it's poo poo chock-full of samey filer. Not quests, just NPC's actions, or world events. Edit: I mean, I agree. It's just not what I had in mind. itry fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Oct 19, 2021 |
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Oct 19, 2021 23:14
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I am playing Underrail for the millionth time and it is the best rpg if the 2010s
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Oct 19, 2021 23:42
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:If a game advertises procedural randomly-generated quests I already know it's poo poo chock-full of samey filer. This, but for game design in general. Every procedurally generated game makes the claim of ”1 million combinations!" and it ends up being a homogeneous mess of generic combinations that are all slightly different than each other. Take No Man's Sky planetside aliens for example, sure there's a whole bunch of zaney body/limb model combinations you'll see for aliens, but they're still basic entities that walk/fly/swim and flail if you get too close. Too much breadth, not enough depth.
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Oct 20, 2021 00:01
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When I think of procedural generation it just amazes me how old open world games like Morrowind or Gothic had everything placed by hand. GTA as well but those games have bigger budgets than any movie.
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Oct 20, 2021 00:04
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WILDTURKEY101 posted:When I think of procedural generation it just amazes me how old open world games like Morrowind or Gothic had everything placed by hand. daggerfall was procedurally generated. they just did all the random generating before hand rather than in real-time as you played
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Oct 20, 2021 01:45
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Noita is good procedural generation, because the interaction of the components is intrinsically interesting.
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Oct 20, 2021 01:56
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I work on tools for game development focused mostly on procedural generation. I have a distinct fascination with the concept of procedural generation and it's use to generate content in games. The big difference is that I don't think making the tools alone makes a game. I think it's a huge fallacy to believe that procgen in and of itself will create all your content. I think the smarter way (and how I describe the purpose of the tools I'm working on) is "for rapid prototyping". If you can procedurally generate a realistically laid out city with content etc, that's neat. But it's inherently devoid of interest as a game. What it is designed for is to slap down a city that gives enough content etc to provide an interesting place to wander, and then the devs can spend the bulk of their time tweaking and creating handcrafted experiences. Spending hundreds of work hours on making a city of buildings that are of no importance is a waste, when they could be spending that time making the actual game. Procgen is fascinating and endlessly useful, but often abused as a means and end to creating content. It really isn't.
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Oct 20, 2021 02:05
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runnypoops posted:I am playing Underrail for the millionth time and it is the best rpg if the 2010s I want to do this when I get a new computer.
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Oct 20, 2021 03:13
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syntaxfunction posted:I work on tools for game development focused mostly on procedural generation. I have a distinct fascination with the concept of procedural generation and it's use to generate content in games. I'm starting to come around to this way of thinking. It isn't exactly the same thing, but I was looking at Unreal engine's new Metahuman feature, which is a library of high fidelity human models which you can tweak along sliders in the style of a very detailed character creator you'd find in a game - or you can also export them from metahuman and use them as a basis for an external tool. I was thinking about it like, since I started game development as a hobby I've had an assumed bias against using tools like this, which generate graphics for you or which handle really anything at all. I've slowly whittled that down now because I keep realising, is there any point in me spending a month learning how to do this so I can cobble together in inferior version of what I could get in 10 minutes here? And probably lose the will to live in the process? For small teams, developers, etc, I think there's nothing wrong with basically putting your 'game' and even world together out of external assets and then building something interesting out of that. As graphics generation gets more advanced I think you'll see a lot more of the kind of thing you're talking about, where the base elements of a game are so easily generated that the concept of where creativity lies begins to shift away from that part to what you DO with those elements. Film makers use real locations. They don't invent a new camera for every movie. Etc. You use what has gone before and do something with it that is new. There absolutely is no point in spending 6 months designing a highly detailed city block that looks 90% the same as every other city block. No point in making your own humanoid model from scratch when really the only unique details will be in the face. And so on. Basically yeah I agree with you.
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Oct 20, 2021 03:55
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syntaxfunction posted:I work on tools for game development focused mostly on procedural generation. I have a distinct fascination with the concept of procedural generation and it's use to generate content in games. It’s also critical to have more than, like, 4 variables. If you have 20 variables that play off each other it can be a good time but if it’s just procgen of a dungeon where you fight skeletons or bandits or spiders, or one of 4 biomes, then frankly that’s just boring as poo poo no matter what.
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Oct 20, 2021 04:06
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The best fun to have with MUDs was getting a small group together and making your own. There'd always be people who'd be really into the idea that it would eventually reach a playable state and maybe turn into a real game, but they were doing it wrong. That's a vain hope. But just making a few locations and some fun items and NPCs just for you and your friends to play with? That's a fun time.
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Oct 20, 2021 08:23
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Tiggum posted:The best fun to have with MUDs was getting a small group together and making your own. There'd always be people who'd be really into the idea that it would eventually reach a playable state and maybe turn into a real game, but they were doing it wrong. That's a vain hope. But just making a few locations and some fun items and NPCs just for you and your friends to play with? That's a fun time. back when i played MUDs the idea that any of them could turn into a "real game" seemed ridiculous and almost no one tried but for one notable exception, which was called Medievia. it started out as a generic diku based "hack n slash" type of MUD but they completely rewrote the codebase (or so they claim, their decision to stop crediting the diku team was like the #1 controversy on a couple of newsgroups for years) and introduced a colorful scrolling ascii map and a whole bunch of complicated new systems and i think, at one point, they were even charging money? anyway it became a very popular game for a while but also a huge faction of the community really hated those guys personally i got involved as a "builder" on a number of different ones, usually obscure and more rp focused, i just really got into the practice of describing spaces and rooms in a sort of geometric nonlinear sequence and trying to figure out how it all fit together, its a fun type of writing exercise edit: i just looked it up and Medievia still exists, its free, and they still have the same attitude. from the creator: ""This game will shock the world. How can an interactive text game shock the world? We opened in 1991 and never stopped adding things. Today, 25 years later, we just opened version 5, the most in-depth multi-player game world ever contemplated, soon with hundreds of player-designed planets each with thousands of players who can move from planet to planet. This is a Google-sized jump in game features and potential never before seen." Earwicker fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 18:06
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Idk if it's that unpopular, but Crysis is the real Far Cry 2 and Crysis 2 and 3 are loving awesome too
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Oct 22, 2021 15:46
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Crysis games rule but the memes made them out to be something they’re not. Crysis 1 was “cyborg murder Batman in North Korea” which is a loving dope conceit, but also it just played VERY well. Setting up traps and poo poo to silently murder everyone in a military base using a special suit? Hello hello. Your super powers are very limited, and you need to rely on stealth a lot, sneaking up on dudes and poo poo, also cool conceit. The alien part sucked. Crysis 2 was more of a weird shooter and the aliens were annoying and it turned into more of a cover shooter like CoD which was annoying. Aliens, the worst part about Crysis 1, were basically 80% of the game of Crysis 2. Though they tried to make the aliens better by making them bipedal and poo poo so you can sneak up on them, it didn’t really work because they were faster and poo poo, and frankly shooting bullets at metallic armor is never fun or cool. Crysis 3 was better I guess. But they just never recaptured that feeling in Crysis 1 when you launch a turtle at a soldier, go invisible and sprint off lightning fast behind a building only to sneak up behind the soldier to choke him out while shooting his buddy. With his own gun.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:15
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jokes posted:Crysis games rule but the memes made them out to be something they’re not. Crysis 1 was “cyborg murder Batman in North Korea” which is a loving dope conceit, but also it just played VERY well. Setting up traps and poo poo to silently murder everyone in a military base using a special suit? Hello hello. Your super powers are very limited, and you need to rely on stealth a lot, sneaking up on dudes and poo poo, also cool conceit. The alien part sucked. Yeah they went down the CoD path, but the alien-human hybrid murdersuit that thinks it's people that eats dying bodies in a one-man war transhuman cyberpunk story was pretty unique, and they went down a different enough path from CoD that they stand out. Also agree on the chaos you can cause in crysis being 
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Oct 22, 2021 16:24
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Crysis’s conceit was just so loving cool. Like the suit becoming an amalgamation of the personalities of the people it helps/eats? The suit itself being essentially the main character of each game? too bad the gameplay just wasn’t there. Felt like a weird CoD. loving CoD. It ruined a lot of game series (and almost the genre) much like WoW did.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:29
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Much like WoW, Cod didn't ruin anything and was a fantastic game.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:30
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jokes posted:Crysis’s conceit was just so loving cool. Like the suit becoming an amalgamation of the personalities of the people it helps/eats? The suit itself being essentially the main character of each game? too bad the gameplay just wasn’t there. Felt like a weird CoD. There's a reason people say the 360 era heralded basically a lost decade for shooters design-wise. Like nearly all the innovation since then is just rediscovering everything that was thrown away.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:30
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the last, best COD was COD 4: Modern Warfare. the last, best COD multiplayer was MW2.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:31
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Much like WoW, Cod didn't ruin anything and was a fantastic game. Both were fantastic but then everyone else wanted to be exactly like them as a result and everything just got really rote and boring around them in a hurry, including CoD and WoW. Same thing happened after DOTA succeeded the RTS genre and now nobody wants to let players build a barracks in their video games anymore.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:32
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The best COD is the one in which i, a below average gamer, was able to top multiplayer matches by literally only stabbing people. Call of Duty Single Player is rotten by the way, everything is just action ramped up to 11 to the point where its totally flavourless. Everything is so grandiose that it feels pointless. Just an endless corridor of L2+R2 with zero stakes. Its an insult to call them first person shooters really given how contrived and uninspiring they are.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:37
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Call of Duty 4 had a really creative and atmospheric campaign when it came out, it wasn't really like anything that had been seen before and some of the setpieces are excellent. Modern Warfare 2 also has a really fun and cool campaign with some great over the top action movie stuff.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:39
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One time I honestly truly thought if I was good enough at call of duty or whatever someone would pay me a bunch of money and girls would want to sleep with me. Then I grew up and realized that is the dumbest thing and it’s not true. Then I kept growing up and it turns out that was absolutely loving true and people play video games on the internet and make millions every month and it is the dumbest thing.
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Oct 22, 2021 16:40
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jokes posted:Both were fantastic but then everyone else wanted to be exactly like them as a result and everything just got really rote and boring around them in a hurry, including CoD and WoW. That's a fair point really but you can't blame the original games. If the formula works then people will go for it. The dota/RTS thing gets on my nerves a bit, its just an evolution of the genre and a needed one at that because starcraft had its time and frankly people still hanging onto that branch are out of their minds
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Oct 22, 2021 16:41
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Caesar Saladin posted:Call of Duty 4 had a really creative and atmospheric campaign when it came out, it wasn't really like anything that had been seen before and some of the setpieces are excellent. Modern Warfare 2 also has a really fun and cool campaign with some great over the top action movie stuff. Yes but it lasted 3 hours and this was nearly 15 years ago. Its barely worth thinking about, at least until the inevitable 4k upscaled remaster hits
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Oct 22, 2021 16:44
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Yes but it lasted 3 hours and this was nearly 15 years ago. Its barely worth thinking about, at least until the inevitable 4k upscaled remaster hits That happened five years ago, and MW2 got one last year too.
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Oct 22, 2021 17:01
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jokes posted:One time I honestly truly thought if I was good enough at call of duty or whatever someone would pay me a bunch of money and girls would want to sleep with me. Crysis 3 lets you hunt dudes with a bow in the jungle of New York City as an alien nanotech monsterman
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Oct 22, 2021 17:15
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tango alpha delta posted:the last, best COD was COD 4: Modern Warfare. Sitting around talking about which turd is smoothest and roundest
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Oct 22, 2021 18:43
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QuarkJets posted:Sitting around talking about which turd is smoothest and roundest Sorry you just don’t understand https://i.imgur.com/EJxDxIU.gifv jokes fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 18:46
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jokes posted:Sorry you just don’t understand CoD MW2 melee was the best playstyle ever. Sure you could 1887 someone from across the map, but stabby stabs created so much rage, especially from campers. That feeling when you got the Care-Package Killstreak in your hand...  From the Wiki: "There were initially two major glitches with airdrop-based killstreak rewards. While holding the Care Package, players would receive a large increase in movement speed, as well as a 25% health boost, which was often combined with Marathon, Lightweight, and Commando for extremely fast knifing classes."
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Oct 22, 2021 19:16
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