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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm not sure if it's really clear how much the amount of arable land will shrink from climate change, given that as some regions heat up too much (and I'm not really sure if it's heat itself that makes regions bad for crops as opposed to just worsening irrigation), many formerly unusable cold regions will thaw out and become available. And that's disregarding other prospective methods to increase the potential for farming density, potential technologies for developing new crops for the now too-hot areas, or even the capacity for humanity to contain or reverse climate change. Even if the amount of farmable land were to actually increase, the environmental impact of factory scale livestock is unsustainable and the greenhouse gasses produced in the process intolerable. As places that were formerly 'third world' (e.g. China, India, the Philippines) achieve higher standards of living (and who would blame them?) it would be utterly ruinous if they wanted to eat particularly beef and pork in the amounts Americans consume every single day. Just trying to feed 300 million Americans beef every day is already destroying entire continents, imagine if there were 2 or 3 billion people eating like Americans. Anyway, if it's OK with everybody else I feel like I'm derailing the thread and would prefer not to continue on this particular topic.
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Oct 29, 2021 19:21
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Tulip posted:Siberia isn't so much becoming arable as literally exploding. The tundra/taiga can be made arable, but it will require decades of land management and effort to do so. Climate change likely will incentivize that though, so in 2090 or whatever there may indeed be farming in northern canada/siberia
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Oct 29, 2021 19:27
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I'm not eating bugs
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Oct 29, 2021 19:44
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Gaius Marius posted:I'm not eating bugs haha you fool. more bugs for the rest of us
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Oct 29, 2021 19:47
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Read this https://www.fda.gov/food/ingredients-additives-gras-packaging-guidance-documents-regulatory-information/food-defect-levels-handbook You're already eating bugs.
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Oct 29, 2021 19:48
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Gaius Marius posted:I'm not eating bugs you should probably eat bugs most of the attempts to break into the american market have them ground into a flour anyways so it's not even buggy
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Oct 29, 2021 20:04
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Eat more crabs and desensitize yourself to the chitinous.
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Oct 29, 2021 20:12
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it's true that crustaceans are just bugs with a number of legs other than 6 or 8
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Oct 29, 2021 20:14
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cheetah7071 posted:it's true that crustaceans are just bugs with a number of legs other than 6 or 8 Also they're self-brining
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Oct 29, 2021 20:21
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Hell pay me some money and I’ll go down to the shore and grind up a couple small shore crabs into a paste and mash it with a potato cake. Doubt it will kill me. I already bought a hand grinder and was considering trying out small perch ground up.
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Oct 29, 2021 20:45
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Crab Dad posted:Hell pay me some money and I’ll go down to the shore and grind up a couple small shore crabs into a paste and mash it with a potato cake. Doubt it will kill me. very powerful username/post combo, thank you for this
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Oct 29, 2021 20:47
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Crab Dad posted:Eat more crabs and desensitize yourself to the chitinous. Crab Dad posted:I ate too much crab and transformed into this. I don't think I can trust you cheetah7071 posted:you should probably eat bugs no
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Oct 29, 2021 22:20
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Gaius Marius posted:I'd really prefer if our post collapse society didn't resemble the Aztecs in any way. I don't know if you're alluding to the human sacrifice that was practiced by the Aztecs, but we actually have that in the USA if you live here. It's just called the death penalty.
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Oct 29, 2021 22:57
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Bodhidharma posted:I don't know if you're alluding to the human sacrifice that was practiced by the Aztecs, but we actually have that in the USA if you live here. It's just called the death penalty. Original recipe for porzole/menudo was effective use resources.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:30
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Crab Dad posted:Hell pay me some money and I’ll go down to the shore and grind up a couple small shore crabs into a paste and mash it with a potato cake. Doubt it will kill me. The rare post-username-avatar hat trick! Edit: gently caress, beaten like a crab into paste!
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Oct 29, 2021 23:35
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I enjoyed this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPMiWwqX4wI
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Oct 29, 2021 23:46
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Gaius Marius posted:I'm not eating bugs That's fine, we grilled you a wormburger instead
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Oct 30, 2021 17:34
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I can't remember seeing anything about bugs as food in ancient literature. Societies eating bugs are more common than ones that don't, so I would think it wasn't unusual. Maybe it was a class thing though. The recipes we have are all fancy poo poo just by the fact that they were collected in a book, nobody was writing down peasant food.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:42
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Bugs aren't easy to harvest, in temperate climates. Aside from silkworms, I doubt any of them were regularly eaten.
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Oct 30, 2021 18:02
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John the Baptist is written to have liked his honeyed crickets, not that scripture is the most reliable historical source. Also, while they're not insects, snails can be farmed easily. You can throw them spoiled perishables and get a fatter snail out of the deal, and they're great for ancient travellers because "don't kill it until you need to eat it" is a perfectly good preservation method.
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Oct 30, 2021 18:23
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Azza Bamboo posted:John the Baptist is written to have liked his honeyed crickets, not that scripture is the most reliable historical source. Best of all, the snails you're going to be eating are the common garden snails that you find in your garden. Zero investment to get your farm going.
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Oct 30, 2021 18:32
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Snails are not bugs, fools
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Oct 30, 2021 18:55
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Snails are a type of primitive land octopus.
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Oct 30, 2021 19:17
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If it doesn't have fur and/or a spine it's a bug.
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Oct 30, 2021 20:02
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[Jaws theme here]
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Oct 30, 2021 23:59
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Just be careful eating slugs and snails because they can carry parasites. Not really a problem if they were to be farmed, because parasite life cycles are spread across multiple species, which aren't going to be present when farmed.
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Oct 31, 2021 00:33
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Incredibly nasty parasites too.
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Oct 31, 2021 00:59
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It’s one of those things like chronic toothache that I usually don’t think of when imagining life in the past, but parasites of some form must have been virtually ubiquitous in every society right? I vaguely remember reading a paper on parasites in Joseon upper class mummies and iirc all of them had at least a few.
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Oct 31, 2021 03:11
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Koramei posted:It’s one of those things like chronic toothache that I usually don’t think of when imagining life in the past, but parasites of some form must have been virtually ubiquitous in every society right? I vaguely remember reading a paper on parasites in Joseon upper class mummies and iirc all of them had at least a few. It was considered a normal part of male puberty for your pee to become red in Egypt, iirc.
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Oct 31, 2021 03:16
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Yeah there's evidence of parasites in well preserved remains like Egyptian mummies, and obvious parasites like guinea worm are well documented in the written sources. It's probably safe to assume they were fairly common.
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Oct 31, 2021 03:20
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There's even a convincing theory that the disappearance of certain parasites with which we long coexisted is a driving factor in why so many westerners have crippling allergies that weren't common in the past. Many parasites actively suppress the immune system for obvious reasons. I like the anecdote that head lice and genital lice are two unrelated species, and that human pubic lice are related to the species that affects gorillas. Presumably we caught them from sleeping in the same places, but maybe Bob was over there loving a gorilla.
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Oct 31, 2021 04:23
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I think I remember reading that gorilla genitalia are comically small compared to humans'. I'm not sure that would even be possible.
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Oct 31, 2021 05:59
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Arglebargle III posted:I think I remember reading that gorilla genitalia are comically small compared to humans'. I'm not sure that would even be possible. Or…..average Joe Carthagenian was a big hit with the gorilla ladies.
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Oct 31, 2021 06:18
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Koramei posted:It’s one of those things like chronic toothache that I usually don’t think of when imagining life in the past, but parasites of some form must have been virtually ubiquitous in every society right? I vaguely remember reading a paper on parasites in Joseon upper class mummies and iirc all of them had at least a few. Helminths are part of the normal human microbiome and are really good at actively regulating the host immune system. Their decreased prevalence in modern rich countries are linked to the increase of autoimmune diseases such as type 1 diabetes. Drugs and treatments are also being developed based on helminths immunoregulation for several other autoimmune diseases like MS and arthritis and inflammatory bowel syndrome so the regulatory mechanisms are quite potent and useful. There are a great amount of scientific papers about this if you just search for it in Google Scholar or something. Zudgemud fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 07:43
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Bugs aren't easy to harvest, in temperate climates. Aside from silkworms, I doubt any of them were regularly eaten. Before insecticides made them almost extinct, cockchafers were regularly eaten in parts of Germany.
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Oct 31, 2021 10:29
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Zopotantor posted:Before insecticides made them almost extinct, cockchafers were regularly eaten in parts of Germany. Do you have any sources on this? I'm German and I have literally never heard of this Bar Ran Dun posted:Incredibly nasty parasites too. Some types of snails can be parasites too, to add to the fun. There's a tiny freshwater snail living in parts of Europe and wherever it lives, going into a lake is going to end with your body infested with them.
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Oct 31, 2021 11:22
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Libluini posted:Do you have any sources on this? I'm German and I have literally never heard of this Cockchafer soup https://www.nabu.de/tiere-und-pflanzen/insekten-und-spinnen/kaefer/01263.html quote:Für die menschliche Ernährung wurden Maikäfer ebenfalls genutzt – nicht nur in Notzeiten. „Unsere Studenten essen die Maikäfer ganz roh, ganz wie sie sind und nicht wenige ohne den geringsten Nachteil“, wusste zum Beispiel die Fuldaer Zeitung 1925. „In vielen Konditoreien sind sie verzuckert zu haben, und man isst sie kandiert in Tafeln zum Nachtisch.“ Auch ein Rezept für Maikäfer-Bouillon ist überliefert: „Man nehme die Maikäfer, reiße ihnen Flügeldecken und Beine ab, röste ihren Körper in heißer Butter knusprig, koche sie dann mit Hühnerbrühe ab, tue etwas geschnittene Kalbsleber hinein und serviere das Ganze mit Schnittlauch und gerösteten Semmelschnitten.“ Zopotantor fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 11:28
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Zopotantor posted:Cockchafer soup Huh. Thanks! For some reason the German Maikäfer-Artikel doesn't mention this at all. Well, Hessians are weird, so I should have expected this. 
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Oct 31, 2021 11:56
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Zopotantor posted:Cockchafer soup One of the insects that completely disapeared. When my parents were kids, they were collected in buckets as feed for farm animals. I've only seen one in over 30 years some time ago.
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Oct 31, 2021 13:13
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Libluini posted:Huh. Thanks! For some reason the German Maikäfer-Artikel doesn't mention this at all. Native of Fulda here, can confirm. No, I haven’t eaten any cockchafers yet.
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Oct 31, 2021 15:28
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