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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:idk how you got that impression of the BG and how powerful they are. Mohiam couldn't even stop the Baron from trying to kill Paul and Jessica. If they were so powerful, he wouldn't have tried to rules lawyer her. She did tell Jessica that the BG did everything they could for Paul, with the implication that her hubris brought all of them too close to the sun.
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Oct 31, 2021 01:20
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:She did tell Jessica that the BG did everything they could for Paul, with the implication that her hubris brought all of them too close to the sun. The implication being that she knows they're going to be left to die in the desert, and its up to them to use the prophecy they planted.
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Oct 31, 2021 01:23
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:idk how you got that impression of the BG and how powerful they are. Mohiam couldn't even stop the Baron from trying to kill Paul and Jessica. If they were so powerful, he wouldn't have tried to rules lawyer her. He's trying to rules-lawyer her because it's well-known that Bene Gesserit can detect lies. Events will spin so far out of the nobility's control that it won't matter by the end of the narrative, anyway.
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Oct 31, 2021 01:33
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Arglebargle III posted:He's trying to rules-lawyer her because it's well-known that Bene Gesserit can detect lies. Events will spin so far out of the nobility's control that it won't matter by the end of the narrative, anyway. Yes I know that. I'm saying he wouldn't try to pull that poo poo with a truly powerful faction like the spacing guild.
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Oct 31, 2021 01:52
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Even the nobility isn't fully aware of their powers, though. The Baron doesn't know that Mohiam could kung-fu her way through most if not all of his guards, or that he and his family are part of the BG breeding program and that their lives have been bent to suit it.
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Oct 31, 2021 02:00
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Yes I know that. I'm saying he wouldn't try to pull that poo poo with a truly powerful faction like the spacing guild. He absolutely would if he could get away with it. Hes Baron Harkonnen for fucks sake. He has the support of the Emperor, a massive reserve of spice and is soon to regain Arrakis. He is in a position of strength that a surviving Atreides could easily undo and its worth making pretty much anyone mad to make sure his position is unassailable. Also there is a reason that the politicking of the great houses falls away in later books and the Bene Gesserit, Tleilaxu, Guild and Ixians become the central focus. House Harkonnen is fully defeated by the end of book 1 while the Bene Gesserit are trying to wrangle away the Atreides bloodline all the way up until the end of God-Emperor.
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Oct 31, 2021 02:07
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You have to imagine, although it's never directly stated, *spoilers for part 2 and 3*that Paul's jihad completely crushed resistance among the great houses. With the Imperial army and the spice monopoly consolidated into a single person, and the guild on a tight leash, no alliance of great houses could even begin to coalesce against the Atreides Empire. The Guild and the religious orders can only politic against the throne because they have a role to play in the new system. Until Leto II crushes them too.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 02:49
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veni veni veni posted:Same. I haven't read the books and everyone says it was the best place to end it, but it still felt like it just sort of cuts off abruptly. Everything else about it was great though. Also agreed. It’s hard to critique when I feel like I watched half of a great miniseries/movie. I’m glad part 2 is on the way. Imagine that this was it.
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Oct 31, 2021 03:04
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Arglebargle III posted:You have to imagine, although it's never directly stated, that Paul's jihad completely crushed resistance among the great houses. With the Imperial army and the spice monopoly consolidated into a single person, and the guild on a tight leash, no alliance of great houses could even begin to coalesce against the Atreides Empire. The Guild and the religious orders can only politic against the throne because they have a role to play in the new system. Until Leto II crushes them too. Yeah, the Great Houses had no chance of resisting with the Guild having surrendered. They're all isolated on their respective planets and any resistance would be on a planet by planet basis. Also Paul got a controlling share of CHOAM out of everything, meaning he owns the economy as well.
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Oct 31, 2021 03:21
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:"Today, credit scenes are one of Marvel's main draws for their "films"" which is why Eternals will fall flat
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Oct 31, 2021 04:11
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hell it's probably true, gotta consume that next product
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2house2fly posted:I think Lynch was the same as here; they said he'd get her back alive but he knows they're full of poo poo and is doing what they want for a chance at revenge Out of shape my rear end. That was a dinner knife
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Oct 31, 2021 04:14
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AnEdgelord posted:He absolutely would if he could get away with it. Hes Baron Harkonnen for fucks sake. That's what they're saying. That's their point! He wouldn't be able to get away with it if he tried it on the spacing guild, because they're actually powerful, unlike the BG. The BG seem powerful but get dunked on every turn by even the most simple of rules lawyerings.
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Oct 31, 2021 04:55
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stratdax posted:That's what they're saying. That's their point! He wouldn't be able to get away with it if he tried it on the spacing guild, because they're actually powerful, unlike the BG. The BG seem powerful but get dunked on every turn by even the most simple of rules lawyerings. The Bene Gesserit through their services had a ton of soft power and influence, kept their abilities secret, and deliberately eschewed hard power for a long, long time. Their plans proceeded without hindrance and it worked very well for them right up until it didn't because someone had objectives straight counter to theirs and they had no recourse to the naked force everybody else could and did bring to bear.
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Oct 31, 2021 05:01
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Did I blink and miss something or did Jessica not notice or care when Mapes sheathed the crysknife without blooding it?
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Oct 31, 2021 07:46
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I finally saw it tonight. Overall very enjoyable for a film that has to try and condense a lot of book and make it understandable for film watchers. My favorite thing was the ship design. My other favorite thing is that Villeneuve really knows how to frame a shot. I thought the fight choreography worked great for smaller scenes but fell flat in large group scenes. My biggest complaint is that I think the characterization of Lady Jessica was completely off. I also wish they had delved into the mentat stuff with Paul. I was a big fan of the combo BG, mentat, and spice as the reason for Paul’s foresight, and I felt that the movie’s story suffered from removing that. I really want to see the direction they take in part 2.
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Oct 31, 2021 08:24
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Why is this a movie. WHY? lovely garbage like foundation is already guaranteed 20 hour long episodes, but here all of hollywood's best and brightest are trying to cram a massive space history narrative into 150 minutes and change. The concept of 'cinema' has never seemed more pointless and obsolete. I'll come back to binge this show when it's finished. So, what then, never? This is a prologue in the guise of an event Even as an adaptation it was pretty bland. Like, competently executed, but unimaginative. Too literal an adaptation, against Lynch's surrealism. I got nothing from Skarsgards Baron, and we barely get any time at all with the vast majority of the Duke's entourage - somehow the pacing is so hosed that the film feels rushed and cramped at the same time, blasting though plot necessities to go ultimately nowhere. The result is flat, bland, and shallow - a stage play stretched across a very obvious greenscreen. I was pretty hyped for this, but I am deeply unconvinced.
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Oct 31, 2021 10:25
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Actually one 2.5 hour movie for half a book is plenty.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:04
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Yeah part of me did walk out thinking it could have worked as a series instead - but honestly how many episodes would that even be? Just talking about the first book I don't think there's much more they could have added to the first half plot-wise. So maybe six hour long episodes? I don't know if that's worth the inevitable loss of budget and scope. It's a shame we have to wait so long for the (arguably) more interesting parts of the story though.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:13
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My dream scenario would be the first 3 books as Villeneuve movies then (loosely) adapt God emp as a Dune stories HBO series where the events of the 4th book are interspersed with some episodic filler content focusing on the BG, Tleilaxu, Ixians etc.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:48
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Mata posted:My dream scenario would be the first 3 books as Villeneuve movies then (loosely) adapt God emp as a Dune stories HBO series where the events of the 4th book are interspersed with some episodic filler content focusing on the BG, Tleilaxu, Ixians etc. God-Emperor should be entirely narrated by Leto, and have him openly admit that he's loving with you and manipulating the narrative. Also the rubber penis. Edit: There is actually an HBO series coming, Dune: The Sisterhood with both Villeneuve and Brian Herbert being involved.I'm not sure i rate it's chances very highly, especially given that even here, on a nerd forum discussing the movie, nobody seems to give a poo poo about it. Strom Cuzewon fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 12:50
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Mata posted:My dream scenario would be the first 3 books as Villeneuve movies then (loosely) adapt God emp as a Dune stories HBO series where the events of the 4th book are interspersed with some episodic filler content focusing on the BG, Tleilaxu, Ixians etc.
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Oct 31, 2021 13:11
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:This is how you get too much involvement from The Ones That Shall Not Be Named.
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Oct 31, 2021 13:15
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Edit: There is actually an HBO series coming, Dune: The Sisterhood with both Villeneuve and Brian Herbert being involved.I'm not sure i rate it's chances very highly, especially given that even here, on a nerd forum discussing the movie, nobody seems to give a poo poo about it. I'm pretty hyped about the sisterhood, it just seems so far off that there's not much to say. But I'll watch it on day 1 for sure. I'm hoping for the full Disneyfication of the Dune universe. Whatever harm a bad film adaptation (or trashy canon prequels and sequels) could have done to the franchise has been inflicted long ago, if we get 1 decent spinoff show and 10 unwatchable ones that's a net win.
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Oct 31, 2021 13:43
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tbh while i wish the story had a bit more time to breathe, i feel like this is definitely a movie that benefits from being seen in theaters given that it's like 20% giant panning shots of 80s pulp scifi covers while hans zimmer caterwauls and smacks a drum
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Oct 31, 2021 15:04
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Thursday Next posted:Also, I did get that Spice is used for space travel, but I don't know how. They said it was how interstellar travel was possible, but if they explained more than that I missed it. I don't think I needed to know that, though. It was just a 1-sentence summary in one of Paul's documentary things, just saying the spacing guild needs it in order to find safe routes for the journey. Also the Baron does refer to Jessica as Leto's concubine, which by itself might've seemed like an insult but paired together with that "should've married you" line from earlier makes it all make sense. Honestly I'm kind of glad they went sparse with the explanations, that was the only thing I wish was different with Blade Runner 2049, the way it had so many flashbacks in K's mind. I would've preferred him to just be brooding in his car, we already know what he's thinking about.
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Oct 31, 2021 15:07
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Martman posted:The secret Space Jews?
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Oct 31, 2021 15:19
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How far back did people realise how much Foundation blows? There's very little to the series but an ideology that doesn't hold up. No real characters or setting to speak of. While the english translation is iffy in parts and the sexism of the narrator annoying, the Legend of the Galactic Heroes definitely holds up as a space-opera that doesn't poo poo itself in the last leg like Star Wars or Mass Effect. It's 10 books long but most of them barely reach 250 pages in length.
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Oct 31, 2021 15:46
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Inspector Gesicht posted:How far back did people realise how much Foundation blows? There's very little to the series but an ideology that doesn't hold up. No real characters or setting to speak of. I mean, “psychohistory” is just very advanced game theory and is a peer-reviewed science, at this point in history.  But, to answer your question: I think people always knew Foundation was dry and boring. It’s basically a fictional version of The History and Decline of the Roman Empire with a mid-century understanding of the “Dark Ages.”
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Oct 31, 2021 15:53
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It isn't used to predict history at this point in history, which is the point of psychohistory.
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Oct 31, 2021 15:57
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Ok, I've watched it several times now: Very good, overall. I think my biggest complaints are: "The slow blade penetrates the shield" but Duncan Idaho is going all full-on samurai torando on the shield-using special forces. Doesn't seen there was any distinction made for "look how I slowed down last moment." The language. So many great, key lines left out.... almost as if the rule was, "If it was a line in the 1984 movie, I don't want it in this movie." No "cattle and loveplay." No "are you suggesting the Duke's son is an animal/no I'm suggesting he may be human." No "release my son's bonds." It's feels like the dialogue was dumbed down because of it, especially when added to the mispronunciations of words that exist today (padisha, for example). "Atreides" may be the only "hard" word they didn't mangle. Yes, I realize it's 20k years in the future, and words change.... but the movie was made for 2020 audiences, and to me it hurts my ears. They changed it into "this is a way someone who doesn't understand how to stress syllables properly" says it. That makes it sound dumb, to modern ears. But overall, best movie I've seen in a while. The above is just nitpicking.
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Oct 31, 2021 16:05
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Imagine if this movie had the same producer as Dear Evan Hansen, which means casting his very adult son Ben Platt as the teenage lead. With all the makeup to hide his creases he'd look scarier than the Baron. Though he would be suited to play a sandworm.
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Oct 31, 2021 16:13
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Finally got around to streaming the movie the other night and I gotta say, as someone who’s never read Dune or even know literally anything about the books the movie was not great and I’d have been upset with wasting my money if I went to see it in theaters. I’m not trying to be nit picky but there were just too many things that didn’t make any sense to me, like why did the main house not have any warning systems that they were about to be invaded (I get that the comms and shields were shut down but are you seriously telling me that a space faring civilization does not have any form of orbital defenses?), or what even is the point of landing troops on the ground to be honest? If you have an orbital bombardment system and have taken out all of your enemies ships then why not just… keep bombarding them from safety? Also I can’t say I’m a fan of the “white boy goes to foreign land and joins their society after proving that he’s stronger than one/some of their fighters, presumably to lead them to a glorious future” thing.
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Oct 31, 2021 16:16
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Boris Galerkin posted:what even is the point of landing troops on the ground to be honest? If you have an orbital bombardment system and have taken out all of your enemies ships then why not just… keep bombarding them from safety? Boris Galerkin posted:Also I can’t say I’m a fan of the “white boy goes to foreign land and joins their society after proving that he’s stronger than one/some of their fighters, presumably to lead them to a glorious future” thing. 
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Oct 31, 2021 16:21
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Boris Galerkin posted:Also I can’t say I’m a fan of the “white boy goes to foreign land and joins their society after proving that he’s stronger than one/some of their fighters, presumably to lead them to a glorious future” thing. That's explicitly, literally, in every possible way not the story of Dune. I think it's a minor failing of this movie to only tell half the story because it's easy to walk away thinking that's where this is leading. admittedly you have to gloss over the dream sequences and not think about the dialog too hard, but that's literally every movie audience
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Oct 31, 2021 16:23
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The United States posted:That's... a good point There's an explicit line of dialogue explaining that arrakis has no satellites at all. Right after the Baron talks to Mohiam in the cone of silence (lmao)
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Oct 31, 2021 16:26
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Edit: There is actually an HBO series coming, Dune: The Sisterhood with both Villeneuve and Brian Herbert being involved.I'm not sure i rate it's chances very highly, especially given that even here, on a nerd forum discussing the movie, nobody seems to give a poo poo about it. At least for me, it was waiting to see if the movie would survive as more than likely the TV show would be axed if it didn't. Movie's a success and getting a confirmed sequel, so now I'm interested in seeing the background plotting and space kung fu of the Bene Gesserit.
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Oct 31, 2021 16:28
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:That's explicitly, literally, in every possible way not the story of Dune. I think it's a minor failing of this movie to only tell half the story because it's easy to walk away thinking that's where this is leading. Ok, but like I said I know literally nothing about the story of Dune other than what the movie showed me. And what the movie showed me was that those dream sequences did not happen, so going by that am I really dumb to not take much stock in them?
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Oct 31, 2021 16:29
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:There's an explicit line of dialogue explaining that arrakis has no satellites at all. Right after the Baron talks to Mohiam in the cone of silence (lmao) I mean yeah, I can understand why the oppressed civilization of people living in hiding in caves underground would not have satellites or any orbital warning/defense systems. But that doesn’t explain why the great house of atrteides, a space faring civilization with advanced technology, wouldn’t bring any with them when they clearly know that the whole thing is a trap. Besides, the quote you quoted was in context of the harkonnen invasion. The film clearly shows that they have gigantic fuckoff spaceships floating off in orbit and are capable of dropping bombs down onto the planet to blow of all of the ships and take out buildings and other defense systems. If you’ve got that kind of superiority why bother wasting lives landing boots on the ground? Just keep making it rain rocks down to the surface while you’re sitting in your luxury suite doing lines of spice or whatever. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 16:32
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:That's explicitly, literally, in every possible way not the story of Dune. I think it's a minor failing of this movie to only tell half the story because it's easy to walk away thinking that's where this is leading. There are definitly hints of white saviour/noble savage in the film but I think Villeneuve does a decent job of reigning it in. Like that scene of Duncan showing off the cool Fremen tech - it doesnt come off as exoticising their strange ways, it's just really neat and specialised technology. Or the scene with the Fremen idly gossiping about whether Paul really is the Messiah or not. Makes me optimistic about how he's gonna explore those ideas in thr sequel. Especially as he's said it's gonna focus on Chani's perspective.
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Oct 31, 2021 16:32
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Boris Galerkin posted:Ok, but like I said I know literally nothing about the story of Dune other than what the movie showed me. And what the movie showed me was that those dream sequences did not happen, so going by that am I really dumb to not take much stock in them? Not at all, sorry I didn't mean for that to sound dismissive. His horror at the visions he sees in the tent after they escape Arrakeen is important, but it's very mild foreshadowing without context.
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Oct 31, 2021 16:34
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