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Grandpa Palpatine posted:At what point does the Baron rape Mohiam? Because I hope that doesn't make the movie. This does not happen in dune at all.
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Nov 4, 2021 21:08
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porfiria posted:Don't have anything to add at the moment, but thanks for the Good Post. Worth a million boring takes on the Laser Guns. Is it though. They somehow saw a cut of the movie that doesn’t include Jessica at all Ej: if you like a third person omniscient narrative format where you’re rapidly switching from one characters POV to another, boy have I got the book for you Starks fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 21:18
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Covermeinsunshine posted:This does not happen in dune at all. I thought I read this somewhere I might be losing it
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Nov 4, 2021 21:27
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Don't think Jessicas character moments really change that critique.
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Nov 4, 2021 21:28
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:At what point does the Baron rape Mohiam? Because I hope that doesn't make the movie. The DE is a lot of fun; it's presented as an in-universe document, so anything you don't like you can ignore. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 21:30
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:I thought I read this somewhere It's in the failson/anderson sequels/prequels and can be safely ignored
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Nov 4, 2021 21:30
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Covermeinsunshine posted:It's in the failson/anderson sequels/prequels and can be safely ignored Looking back it's still unreal to me how gross they went out of their way to be with some stuff like that and Gurney's sister's torture/death and stuff.
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Nov 4, 2021 22:06
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Herbert alluded to plenty of gross stuff in his books but he had the decency to keep the nasty grossness either alluded to or happening off-page.
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Nov 4, 2021 22:10
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It's in one of the lovely books that Frank Herbert's kid co-wrote with that guy from the Star Wars EU. E:f,b.
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Nov 4, 2021 22:25
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Ej posted:Finally got to see this, and feel like bleeding my thoughts out onto the sands of this thread. I loved the movie (saw it a 3rd time in IMAX again last night!) but you make some very valid points and delivered them eloquently. I really wish he could have made this series of movies as long as he wanted them to be, I hope we get some super long director's cuts of these at some point.
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Nov 4, 2021 22:32
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Alchenar posted:Herbert alluded to plenty of gross stuff in his books but he had the decency to keep the nasty grossness either alluded to or happening off-page. Most of the time, there is a child rape in chapterhouse that is the absolute low point of the frank herbert books. Seriously dont mouse over that spoiler without bracing yourself.
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Nov 4, 2021 22:39
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flashy_mcflash posted:Someone is adapting Incal, which IIRC features a lot of Jodorowsky's ideas for Dune. Director announcement tomorrow I think. lol it's Taika Waititi
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Nov 4, 2021 22:43
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Halloween Jack posted:But part of Dune's story is that the Emperor's grasp is slipping because he doesn't pay attention to the people beneath him. What you're suggesting is a lot more like the Autarch in the Book of the New Sun. This is a bit of a tangent, but if anyone is looking to get their next fix of unfilmable classic literary science fiction, they could do a lot worse than The Book of the New Sun.
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Nov 4, 2021 22:47
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I'm definitely going to read Hyperion
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Nov 4, 2021 22:52
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idk what theincal is but i can’t stop reading it as theincel
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Nov 4, 2021 23:25
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It’s a creepy dude with some absolutely dire views about women.
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Nov 4, 2021 23:27
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Have Hayden Christensen be the emperor.
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Nov 4, 2021 23:27
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stev posted:It's going to be Giancarlo isn't it.
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Nov 4, 2021 23:50
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"There was not a chance in hell of her showing me up. Loved it!"
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Nov 5, 2021 00:03
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Ej posted:I want to believe that this is all a setup for a great shakeup in the next movie, where we get to see the galaxy from others' perspectives, maybe feel Paul's use of the voice on them or see their dreams as they are realized or destroyed by the galactic holy war. If such a turn comes I'll be ready to do a full 180 on this movie.
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Nov 5, 2021 00:17
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My sister walked out of Dune LOL
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Nov 5, 2021 00:54
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Nightmare Cinema posted:My sister walked out of Dune LOL Bad case of helminthophobia?
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Nov 5, 2021 01:33
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Lampsacus posted:yeee apparently z will be the protag of the next film so we'll still have first person but at least it won't be the coloniser This is the result of a (wilful) mistranslation from a French interview, it's not true
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Nov 5, 2021 01:34
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Captain von Trapp posted:This is a bit of a tangent, but if anyone is looking to get their next fix of unfilmable classic literary science fiction, they could do a lot worse than The Book of the New Sun. What is unfilmable about a naked muscle-bound dick-stroking tyrant with two heads?
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Nov 5, 2021 02:10
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Starks posted:Is it though. They somehow saw a cut of the movie that doesn’t include Jessica at all I don't need constant shifting, I think more what I want is just a sense that the other characters have inner lives (that don't revolve around Paul). You're right to call out Jessica as a kind-of counter to my criticism, she seems like the most fully fleshed out person other than Paul. But I'm still sort of in the dark about what she thinks about this whole situation that she took an active part in engineering. She is definitely concerned for Paul, that comes through very strongly. But ... I'm not sure how on-board she is with the overall BG plan to make the Kwisatz Haderach. The reverend mother implies she had Paul to deliberately try to create the chosen-one herself. She neither confirms nor denies. She tells Paul about the plan, and ominous music swells, and then it cuts to the next scene. The only other time the two really reference this is when Paul gets his visions of the coming holy war in the tent, and in that instance they don't discuss the holy war or the BG plan at all. Instead Paul accuses her of making him a freak, and she tries to comfort him. And that's it, cut to next scene. She's a constant loving mom figure to Paul, but her motivations with respect to his "chosen-one" status are a mystery. Her and Leto have a quick final discussion that touches on this and when he asks her directly what her intentions (as a Bene Gesserit) are towards Paul, she won't or can't answer. Does she not know or is she conflicted? Why did she actually choose to have a son? Was the reverend mother right? Or is some other game at play here? I think Jessica is a character that can tolerate this level of ambiguity because it does create some tension in the story. But it's still unnecessarily foggy (to me). And I'm not sure if the tension will ever be resolved. Anyway, I don't want to come off like I hated the movie entirely. The parts of it that I liked I thought were really well done. The foreboding that dominates the first 90 minutes pays off in a satisfyingly gutwrenching way. The sound design and effects work are top notch, and I like the way the tech was presented. I also REALLY like that nothing about the setting was over-explained (well, I guess the shield fighting kind-of falls into this, but that wasn't too much for me). I just want something more out of the characters. I think the non-protags are Villeneuve's weak point as a director/writer. MrL_JaKiri posted:This is the result of a (wilful) mistranslation from a French interview, it's not true Ahh drat, I think that would have been pretty great to see, and would have still fit into Villeneuve's strengths.
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Nov 5, 2021 02:30
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Paolomania posted:What is unfilmable about a naked muscle-bound dick-stroking tyrant with two heads? Something I love about that book is you can spoil huge stuff like that and it doesn't actually spoil anything.
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Nov 5, 2021 03:06
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I very much agree with the criticism that Jessica's motives were not established in the film. Apparently it's a big deal for her to have had a son, and the viewer can infer that she did it in defiance of her Order so that Leto could have an heir, but the relationship between Jessica and Leto could have used even one more scene. "I thought we had more time" is a bit ironic in hindsight because it describes their characters on screen. There was definitely some tenderness there, but the film would have benefitted from just a little more exploration of how/why these two people broke broke a lot of social norms because of their commitment to one another.
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Nov 5, 2021 03:10
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Neo Rasa posted:Something I love about that book is you can spoil huge stuff like that and it doesn't actually spoil anything. So much of the effect of that book is not what happens, but how. There's a dangerous creature called an Alzabo which isn't too complicated - big bear-type thing, can imitate the voice of its victims, and has some ability to temporarily absorb their personality. But the scene where we actually meet a live one is among the most philosophically disturbing monster encounters I've ever read. The humbling thing about the book is that you start to thing "ok Gene, lay off making up weird sci-fi flavor text words" and then you start to realize with dawning horror that he's not making up any words, your own vocabulary is just pitiful in comparison. Chatelaine? Indanthrene? Paterissa? Too bad for you, better break out the dictionary.
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Nov 5, 2021 03:32
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Ej posted:Jessica stuff Jessica's main motivation in the book for bearing a son instead of a daughter is she really loved Leto and Leto wanted a son. But you only know that from her internal monologue. I don't how well that could've been shown in the movie though. Maybe in the tent scene when Paul is freaking out? I don't know where it would fit elsewhere
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Nov 5, 2021 03:46
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fletcher posted:Bad case of helminthophobia? Wormsign scares filthy plebs you know. She's a huge Star Wars and Marvel fan, but can't stand LotR and Alien (now add Dune to the latter list). She lacks refinement.
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Nov 5, 2021 03:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m2hYQJ8OUc You can see the concept art had much wider wings for the ornithopters, more like a real dragonfly. Incredibly, Timothee and Josh hanging out of the ornithopter was a practical effect. They hung the 11 ton ornithopter off of a crane and then hung the actors off of that.
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Nov 5, 2021 04:16
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Captain von Trapp posted:So much of the effect of that book is not what happens, but how. There's a dangerous creature called an Alzabo which isn't too complicated - big bear-type thing, can imitate the voice of its victims, and has some ability to temporarily absorb their personality. But the scene where we actually meet a live one is among the most philosophically disturbing monster encounters I've ever read. Okay I suddenly need to know every single possible bit of information about this.
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Nov 5, 2021 04:58
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:Jessica's main motivation in the book for bearing a son instead of a daughter is she really loved Leto and Leto wanted a son. But you only know that from her internal monologue. I don't how well that could've been shown in the movie though. Maybe in the tent scene when Paul is freaking out? I don't know where it would fit elsewhere There are a couple places her reasoning could naturally fit in. When the reverend mother calls Jessica out on having a son she could simply ask Jessica why she did it. Or, you could extend the scene between Jessica and Leto and have them talk about it. If she has the same motivation as in the book it would be a nice bit of re-assurance to give to Leto, and is basically exactly what he is asking her for. It's actually kind of strange NOT to bring it up with Leto, unless her motivation is different in this version.
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Nov 5, 2021 05:00
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The movie definitely fails to show how involved Jessica is in Paul’s fate with the Fremen. I can’t say whether that was the result of writing, editing, or holding it until the next movie. Paul doesn’t want the Jihad to happen, and seeks out a way to avoid it. He eventually sees that it’s inevitable, but before that he sees Jessica as his enemy, because her actions push Paul and the Fremen toward the Jihad, largely because she wants him to use the Fremen to hurt their political enemies. I want to see the director’s cut so badly.
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Nov 5, 2021 06:43
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TheMadMilkman posted:I want to see the director’s cut so badly. I thought Villeneuve famously hated the idea of "extended" and "director" cuts and whatever hits the theater is the final, definitive edition.
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Nov 5, 2021 07:34
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Arglebargle III posted:For those of you who haven't read it, Hyperion is organized like The Canterbury Tales and even calls attention to that arrangement in its chapter titles. The frame story is a bunch of "pilgrims" going to visit a semi-mythical time-traveling robot murder machine called The Shrike, each for reasons they would at first prefer to keep private. They tell each other stories about why they are going to the Shrike. I should read Hyperion
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Nov 5, 2021 07:43
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Proteus Jones posted:I thought Villeneuve famously hated the idea of "extended" and "director" cuts and whatever hits the theater is the final, definitive edition. drat! Looks like this is the case with Dune as well: https://www.cinemablend.com/movies/after-jason-momoa-calls-for-a-dune-directors-cut-denis-villeneuve-has-responded
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Nov 5, 2021 07:47
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WarMECH posted:Jessica's father is the Barron, that is canon. Mohiam being her mother is failson bullshit and is just 10 levels of stupid. Its actually from the Dune Encyclopedia and Frank collaborated with the writers of it. Frank gave it his stamp of approval and said it's canon unless he writes something later to contradict it. ironically for this discussion Gaius being Jessica's mom was the one thing he called out as not liking in the encyclopedia.
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Nov 5, 2021 08:37
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Ej posted:There are a couple places her reasoning could naturally fit in. When the reverend mother calls Jessica out on having a son she could simply ask Jessica why she did it.
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Nov 5, 2021 08:43
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Xiahou Dun posted:Okay I suddenly need to know every single possible bit of information about this. Just dive in and pick up the Book of the New Sun. You can't read a Gene Wolfe story, you can only reread it. The way he uses word choice and sentence structure was the closest a sci-fi book every made me feel like I did when I read Palefire by Nabokov. A good example is from IIRC the 3rd volume: the main character is delirious with hunger and thirst. The obscure English words start coming faster and thicker until the reader is as disoriented as the character.
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Nov 5, 2021 08:55
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