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IShallRiseAgain posted:Doesn't NWoD not have that much of a defined setting? As a pen and paper RPG that might be advantageous, but as a multi-media franchise that's a bit of a downside. It's extremely well defined. To add onto what the other guy said a big difference between it and the OWoD also is that vampires are just one tiny part of a massive supernatural ecosystem too. There's been multiple books that went solely into the fact that there's so many different vampiric entities out there that one could easily end up assuming that the kindred are actually just different types of vampires that ended up banding together more out of commonality and survival than anything else. There's even diseases that turn kindred type vampires into a Cronenbergian Thing hungry for flesh, for instance. Or the horrible spirit tumor that exploits the particulars of the werewolf end of spirits to basically brainwash you into thinking it's supposed to be there. Or the leech man parasite that uses infected human populations to get into you by slipping into their water supply all so that it basically give you the chest burster treatment. Or the not-Tremere that couldn't quite pull off a vampiric transformation so they just steal other people's hearts to empower themselves. Or the actual vampires that were in fact possibly cursed by God, which aren't even the Kindred and are a minor regional thing. None of this gets into what your fellow Kindred are going to be like as well. And all this doesn't get into how it drops the aspects of it being a deliberate and overt curse to highlight how you really don't need it being a curse from a probably evil version of God to have being inflicted with vampirism be lovely and misery inducing. As a result, the average game is more focused on actual vampire poo poo and how your character deals with that (or doesn't) than arbitrary metaplot stuff. For instance, the organized factions represent actual takes on being a vampire and what people do to cope with it and aspire too instead of a for/against historical metaplot rage against the Desyncing the game from Abrahamic faiths was probably the best idea anyone had in making the game actually varied, interesting, and showing how being one of the vampires in the setting is loving scary and sucks not just in a personal horror sort of sense but also in an external "You're going to have to face some poo poo outside and in society at large that is going to leave you with some mental scars." sort of way. Fuzz posted:You're in luck, Hunter is the next 5E book and they basically axed the Imbued and it sounds like it's a lot like the Vigil, which... gently caress yeah, sign me the gently caress up for that. The Vigil rules. gently caress yeah.  Though them axing the Imbued is odd and makes me worry there's going to be some more puppet master poo poo.Edit: loving wonderful TotP. Archonex fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 15:39
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The primary problem with the metaplot originally was that it was impossible to divorce from supplements and the evolving setting was a primary purpose for the supplements themselves; oWoD books were largely designed around dropping comic book style updates on the reader while scattering useful bits of information around the book. It was certainly possible to extract it, but it was a lot of effort. The release schedule was about the metaplot. Those of us who jumped ship to nW were struck by how much less obtrusive the new meta was. That wasn't the only improvement, but it was a notable one. With like twenty years of hindsight now what I think enamored to me about Requiem was how personal and nuanced it felt next to Masquerade. But that feeling is much less visceral now. They were both fun games. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 15:45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkB8-hDxtH8 Wesp just put out version 11 of the Unofficial Patch. Shine on you crazy diamond.
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Nov 5, 2021 01:48
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nwod is absolutely great and I would love to see a Mage game or one of the best ideas from these threads, XCOM-but-Hunter hell even requiem would be great
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Nov 5, 2021 01:56
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The word that gets used to describe nWoD is "toolkit," which means that not everything in every book is assumed to exist all the time in the setting together, so that every single vampire bloodline from every book don't all share a canon, which is just as well because there are way more of those than make sense.
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Nov 5, 2021 05:59
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Fuzz posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkB8-hDxtH8 I used to have bloodlines on CD, but I can’t find it now. Does that unofficial patch work OK with the Steam version, are there any special tricks or gotchas with doing it that way? Also, on a different note, for the RPG. Aside from the corebook, are there any supplements that people consider Musts? I actually like to sit around and read lore, of games that are pretty lore-rich. e: I’m talking about the 5th edition RPG (that’s the newest, right?) MrMojok fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 23:02
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MrMojok posted:I used to have bloodlines on CD, but I can’t find it now. Does that unofficial patch work OK with the Steam version, are there any special tricks or gotchas with doing it that way? Last time I played was on steam and the patch works fine
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Nov 6, 2021 16:00
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MrMojok posted:I used to have bloodlines on CD, but I can’t find it now. Does that unofficial patch work OK with the Steam version, are there any special tricks or gotchas with doing it that way? The Camarilla and Anarch books add the Banu Haqim and the Ministry, respectively. I don't think they're great reading, but there's some interesting stuff to be found occasionally. Chicago By Night is exceptional. It also adds rules for the Lasombra. Cult of the Blood Gods is also really solid. It sounds pretty much like what it is, and I swear that at least some of the most recent season of What We Do In the Shadows is inspired by it. It updates the metaplot on the former clan Giovanni, now called the Hecata - they and many of their associated bloodlines and clans (Cappadocians, Samedi, Harbingers, etc) are now under one big family. I'd probably go for Chicago and Cult of the Blood Gods over the Camarilla and Anarch books. If you're looking to buy physical products though, there's a special edition that has the core, Camarilla, and Anarch books. Since this is the oWoD, pretty much every book updates the metaplot in some fashion, but those are probably the most essential. There's a handful of others of varying quality.
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Nov 9, 2021 04:41
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Rand Brittain posted:The word that gets used to describe nWoD is "toolkit," which means that not everything in every book is assumed to exist all the time in the setting together, so that every single vampire bloodline from every book don't all share a canon, which is just as well because there are way more of those than make sense. Yeah. The nWoD doesn't have a plot, it has shallow Impressions and themes that you can use to generate a plot. There's a few posters who are enamored with nWoD that try to insist that it's got more lore because they see the outlines of a meta plot in nWoD's vague impressions, but oWoD is the one with a (gonzo, silly) vaguely coherent meta plot. NWoD is more like a book introducing a new DnD setting - a few people, some suggestions of ideas that are mix and matchable, and the ability of your DM to make up the deeper mysteries. Which is all an rpg book needs. Both are fun if different, though I find nWoD tries too hard to do Lost style 'and yes the mystery is deeper...' every fifteen seconds so it's not my personal jam. I'm more ok with katanas and trench coats.
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Nov 9, 2021 16:39
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I prefer oWoD exactly because of the huge epic weird mixture of meta plots. Are vampires caused by the Madness of the Wyrm? Who knows, but it really pisses off the guy who only ever plays vampire so I'm going to say it is so with absolute conviction every time he's around. We used to have mixed games fairly frequently just because poo poo got weird real quick. nWoD doesn't have that fine patina of broken and crazy poo poo.
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Nov 9, 2021 17:27
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Fuzz posted:You're in luck, Hunter is the next 5E book and they basically axed the Imbued and it sounds like it's a lot like the Vigil, which... gently caress yeah, sign me the gently caress up for that. The Vigil rules. If I want more Vigil, I'll just play Vigil. If you're gonna do a new Reckoning, loving do Reckoning. This is why the oWoD should have stayed dead.
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Nov 9, 2021 17:37
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MonsieurChoc posted:If I want more Vigil, I'll just play Vigil. If you're gonna do a new Reckoning, loving do Reckoning. I never saw the point of hunter: the vigil. Chronicles of Darkness had its own book.
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Nov 9, 2021 17:48
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MonsieurChoc posted:If I want more Vigil, I'll just play Vigil. If you're gonna do a new Reckoning, loving do Reckoning. I don’t really agree with owod staying dead (undead undead undead), but even as a huge cheerleader for cod > wod, updating reckoning and turning it into vigil is just wrong.
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Nov 9, 2021 20:58
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I really enjoyed Vigil, but Hunter: The Reckoning not featuring the Imbued is just Hunters Hunted 5e and is the fastest I've lost hype about a RPG.
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Nov 9, 2021 21:08
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ZearothK posted:I really enjoyed Vigil, but Hunter: The Reckoning not featuring the Imbued is just Hunters Hunted 5e and is the fastest I've lost hype about a RPG. Yeah, same.
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Nov 10, 2021 05:53
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playing shadows of new york and so far much better than coteries also imagine my shock as someone who never played 5e and went "oblivion? oh, that's the new discipline name?" and then holy loving poo poo this is so much better for the lasombra?!?! they can leap over through loving wraithtown now?!?! gimme game gently caress that made me go  for bloodlines2
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Nov 10, 2021 06:31
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Apparently it's not dead, at least not definitively
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Nov 10, 2021 13:32
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sebmojo posted:Apparently it's not dead, at least not definitively Regardless of what happens in the end this is going to be one of the most interesting post-mortems in gaming history. IIRC the game was a month out from releasing, they canned the creative staff and from then it's been delayed for a year and a half and is still far from release. I don't know what could justify this anymore, they must be reworking the whole game. What could have caused this? Nephthys fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 13:47
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My assumption, given how many projects Paradox apparently dumped a month or two ago to focus on strategy games, is that someone higher up at Paradox really likes Bloodlines or VTM in general and wants to see it done. I don't know why else they'd keep shoveling money into the fire, Paradox does well by itself but it's not got infinite amounts of it to burn.
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Nov 10, 2021 14:06
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sebmojo posted:Apparently it's not dead, at least not definitively The game they showed gameplay footage of is definitely dead. If we do end up getting a VTM2, its going to be a very different game.
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Nov 10, 2021 14:27
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Changeling the Lost and Geist the Sin-Eaters are both awesome and I wish someone made a game of one of them.
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Nov 10, 2021 14:37
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dead gay comedy forums posted:playing shadows of new york and so far much better than coteries V5 is really loving good. It's like a distillate of all the things that made both versions of Vampire good.
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Nov 10, 2021 14:45
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Ataxerxes posted:Changeling the Lost and Geist the Sin-Eaters are both awesome and I wish someone made a game of one of them.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:03
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Orv posted:My assumption, given how many projects Paradox apparently dumped a month or two ago to focus on strategy games, is that someone higher up at Paradox really likes Bloodlines or VTM in general and wants to see it done. I don't know why else they'd keep shoveling money into the fire, Paradox does well by itself but it's not got infinite amounts of it to burn. We don't know the exact price, but it seems Paradox paid ~$5m for White Wolf outright, then however much more on development. That's a deep well to be in to have to walk away.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:37
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Goa Tse-tung posted:who's gonna write Changeling without causing you to die from banality? Lost, not Dreaming. Lost is an amazing game about recovery from trauma and found family. Dreaming is about how science isn't creative and actually bad and how it's best if you never mature past the age of 12
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Nov 10, 2021 15:43
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Orv posted:My assumption, given how many projects Paradox apparently dumped a month or two ago to focus on strategy games, is that someone higher up at Paradox really likes Bloodlines or VTM in general and wants to see it done. I don't know why else they'd keep shoveling money into the fire, Paradox does well by itself but it's not got infinite amounts of it to burn. I was actually wondering about why they felt they needed to make such huge changes in the first place and why they haven't just released it already. The version we saw previously didn't look that bad, do they really think they'll sell enough to cover the extra 2+ years of development after polishing it up? As I recall they got rid of the whole narrative department so it must be something hugely broken with the gameplay.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:53
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Nephthys posted:I was actually wondering about why they felt they needed to make such huge changes in the first place and why they haven't just released it already. The version we saw previously didn't look that bad, do they really think they'll sell enough to cover the extra 2+ years of development after polishing it up? I thought it looked okay graphics wise, they just needed to work on the janky combat.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:55
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Fuzz posted:V5 is really loving good. It's like a distillate of all the things that made both versions of Vampire good. It's got some great ideas held back by some really bad ones and janky game design, which makes it a true successor in all things to Vampire. Soonmot posted:Lost, not Dreaming. Lost is an amazing game about recovery from trauma and found family. Dreaming is about how science isn't creative and actually bad and how it's best if you never mature past the age of 12 They walked that back in the 20th anniversary edition, which is good since the thing that reignited the whole Glamour thing was the moon landing.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:59
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It's fairly trivial to make up a few minutes of footage with no actual game behind it at all, the vast majority of early teaser trailers are like that.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:04
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Dawgstar posted:It's got some great ideas held back by some really bad ones and janky game design, which makes it a true successor in all things to Vampire. What parts do you find janky?
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Nov 10, 2021 16:29
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ZearothK posted:I really enjoyed Vigil, but Hunter: The Reckoning not featuring the Imbued is just Hunters Hunted 5e and is the fastest I've lost hype about a RPG. If you wanna try to break that record you should try actually reading the ad copy about how 5E hunters are like disruptive tech startup entrepreneurs.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:49
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Alchenar posted:It's fairly trivial to make up a few minutes of footage with no actual game behind it at all, the vast majority of early teaser trailers are like that. Dead Island still remains the queen of non-representative video-game trailers. BL2's trailer looked like an actual (janky) game at least.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:11
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Tetrabor posted:Dead Island still remains the queen of non-representative video-game trailers. I dunno. The only dishonest thing in that trailer was the tonality being serious and heart breaking rather than a comedic romp. A few months later they released a actual gameplay trailer that was pretty faithful. Colonial Marines on the other hand...
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Nov 10, 2021 17:26
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Defenestrategy posted:I dunno. The only dishonest thing in that trailer was the tonality being serious and heart breaking rather than a comedic romp. A few months later they released a actual gameplay trailer that was pretty faithful. Colonial Marines is a weird case where the gameplay was supposedly in fact pretty good...provided you found and patched the bug that made the AI not be braindead. Notably, the devs never noticed this bug (or cared enough to fix it. Jury is out on that one last I looked.) and it only was discovered years after release. Turns out that someone had found a typo in the code governing the AI while perusing the code for reasons why everything sucked so much and had taken it on themselves to patch it similar to how early Bloodlines mod makers were focused around fixing bugs. Meaning next to no one got to play Colonial Marines as it actually was intended due to the either the developer or publisher not doing proper testing and patching along with just about no one caring about the game outside of a small number of people trying to figure out why the AI was so badly designed. In the end, it turned out the bug's cause was literally like a semicolon or a comma in the wrong spot or something like that. Meaning an entire game just got wrecked by one misplaced character in a vast amount of code. Edit: Part of an article explaining the game's actual issue posted:Aliens: Colonial Marines has an almost mythic status as a bad videogame. One major issue is that the enemies – the same aliens that shredded a badass platoon of marines in the film – aren’t particularly menacing. They kind of wander around and forget you’re there. It turns out, the reason they’re so dumb is a single misspelled variable in the game’s files. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 19:37
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Archonex posted:Colonial Marines is a weird case where the gameplay was supposedly in fact pretty good...provided you found and patched the bug that made the AI not be braindead. If I remember correctly, the other big issue was the in engine demo/trailer build they used for their advertising was 10x as pretty than what final release would end up looking like. On top of the AI being bugged.
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Nov 10, 2021 19:54
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The third big issue was that Gearbox were taking the money they got for A:CM and pumping it into whatever interchangeable Borderlands game they were making at the time. Like, actual fraud
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Nov 10, 2021 20:05
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Basic Chunnel posted:The third big issue was that Gearbox were taking the money they got for A:CM and pumping it into whatever interchangeable Borderlands game they were making at the time. Like, actual fraud Yeah, that too. Gearbox was doing all sorts of scummy stuff at the time. Turns out that throwing all that money illegally into another project means you cut corners in the one you're supposed to be working on! Who could have guessed?
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Nov 10, 2021 20:38
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Fuzz posted:What parts do you find janky? Messy crits and bestial failures for a large start. A few bad rolls and you can watch your PC spiral wildly out of control. Moving from Blood Points to dice results just turns resource management into a game of chance and that's not for me. Even in character generation if you pick the right combo of Predator Style that agrees with your clan's Disciplines you can get a discount on getting to rank 3 in one of your preferred powers, I think it works out to about 15 XP that somebody who doesn't optimize gets left out of. You might say you don't care about charops and very good, you shouldn't, but it still kind of sucks to have that disparity. Story wise the overwhelming presence of the Second Inquisition really felt oppressive and not in a good gaming way, as do the whole thing about the Camarilla refusing to let its Kindred use cell phones and computers but admittedly both of those things feel like they've been walked back some once they booted Swedracula and got in Achilli to develop.
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Nov 11, 2021 06:23
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Alchenar posted:We don't know the exact price, but it seems Paradox paid ~$5m for White Wolf outright, then however much more on development. That's a deep well to be in to have to walk away. Nephthys posted:I was actually wondering about why they felt they needed to make such huge changes in the first place and why they haven't just released it already. The version we saw previously didn't look that bad, do they really think they'll sell enough to cover the extra 2+ years of development after polishing it up? It is a lot of dev to walk away from but studios drop projects that have cost them millions a surprising amount of the time when they don't pan out or just don't get anywhere. Even now two or whatever years later I'm still baffled that Hardsuit Labs got the job of making the actual game part of VTMB2, because all they've ever made is a neat but pretty jank and not great freemium shooter, aside from a ton of 90s-2000s tie in movie games as their previous studio incarnation AFAIK. I assume something somewhere in the development went badly, whether it's "This is just kind of a mess" badly or something considerably more hosed up. Orv fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 07:59
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Studios do drop big titles, but typically those studios have big publishers behind them who have said "nah, lets stop here". Paradox is the publisher here and it's still trying to break out of the 'company that makes 4-5 grand strategy games and occasionally partners to publish stuff already made' space. This was big money to drop on an IP and game and get nothing back from it.
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Nov 11, 2021 09:11
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