Linux: vim isn't moe

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: vim isn't moe

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

SYSV Fanfic posted:

I did...

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671

I think my fav thing about that was that other people thought losing everything on your computer was such a normal occurrence when using Linux they didn't think to file a bug about it when it happened to them.

its like if that eve delete c:/boot.ini thing stayed around for... 3 years?

# ? Nov 10, 2021 17:29

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 14:28

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

mystes posted:

I think for someone who knows nothing about computers and can't fix anything without help there is really no difference.

If you install something like xfce the ui will also change less than windows between versions.

It's really the people who have learned a little bit about windows with great difficulty who will have problems with linux.

From my experience it's the people who think they know Windows who are the worst with both. The CCleaner, TuneUp Utilities, Defragmenting The Registry people.

Someone who doesn't know enough to go looking for magic cures on the Internet is generally happy with either, but I have to do less janitoring with Ubuntu�

# ? Nov 10, 2021 18:16

sb hermit: Dec 13, 2016

to be honest, if it isn't in my os repositories, then I'm much less likely to suggest it to others because janitoring is a pain and quality assurance isn't free.

If the guy wanted to run steam, then why didn't he install SteamOS? An entire OS for gaming? Gaming on Linux has a long and fraught history, full of spent time. Open source games like uqm or Beneath a Steel Sky can be installed from the repos and just work. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. Sure, he's attacking this from the perspective of an average person. An average person would not want to game on Linux. They already have a windows computer for that.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 19:37

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

NihilCredo posted:

the tree of /usr/lib must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of packagers and maintainers

# ? Nov 10, 2021 19:51

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Lysidas posted:

my aunt has been using ubuntu for 12+ (idk) years, she is not technically inclined and its been fine, even with libreoffice mail label printing connecting to the libreoffice database thing (spreadsheet -> database -> word processer for mail merges to print), and getting things like printers working was really easy, literally just "plug it in", i enjoyed her teasing her husband about trouble printing on his windows laptop, like "i just plugged it in and it printed, what are you doing wrong"

i built her a computer in undergrad as a gift and didnt have a spare windows license (broke undergrad, spent all the money on hardware) so i put ubuntu on it, figured i would install windows as soon as i could like the next month or so, but she refused,

that computer died (video hardware acting up) and i bought her a new one earlier this year, came with windows 10 of course, had it delivered directly to her house, it took a few days for me to visit (hour+ drive) and i figured the result of that trip would be copying her photos/documents to that windows installation, but she specifically asked me to install ubuntu on the new computer since windows seemed weird and wrong

most of her computer usage is chorme/firefox and then some word processing for which libreoffice has been great

wow. way to admit to elder abuse.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 19:55

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

sb hermit posted:

to be honest, if it isn't in my os repositories, then I'm much less likely to suggest it to others because janitoring is a pain and quality assurance isn't free.

If the guy wanted to run steam, then why didn't he install SteamOS? An entire OS for gaming? Gaming on Linux has a long and fraught history, full of spent time. Open source games like uqm or Beneath a Steel Sky can be installed from the repos and just work. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. Sure, he's attacking this from the perspective of an average person. An average person would not want to game on Linux. They already have a windows computer for that.

it does seem like there's some sort of obsession with being able to game on linux, and quite frankly i don't get it

even if somehow magically you can avoid all the issues with proprietary nonsense, there's still a fundamental issue in that only a portion of any collection of games is gonna work, and there's a shitload of games that won't ever work on linux unless you use syscall emulation like wine or someone like the folks at GOG pick them up and do a lot of extra work on them - which doesn't seem to be the case at present, and even then they only have a small (but good) selection of older games, not every game ever made

also, there's something more worrying going on, which i'm not sure i have a word for, but essentially comes down to me worrying that appealing to the masses is going to result in everything being made for the masses, with no attempt to make things for powerusers
on the other hand, i get how elitist that sounds, and it's not something that keeps me awake - it's just a niggle

# ? Nov 10, 2021 19:59

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

Antigravitas posted:

From my experience it's the people who think they know Windows who are the worst with both. The CCleaner, TuneUp Utilities, Defragmenting The Registry people.

Someone who doesn't know enough to go looking for magic cures on the Internet is generally happy with either, but I have to do less janitoring with Ubuntu�

I want to know how the Google a DLL name market is profitable enough that there�s like eight different sites that serve it

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:06

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

sb hermit posted:

to be honest, if it isn't in my os repositories, then I'm much less likely to suggest it to others because janitoring is a pain and quality assurance isn't free.

If the guy wanted to run steam, then why didn't he install SteamOS? An entire OS for gaming? Gaming on Linux has a long and fraught history, full of spent time. Open source games like uqm or Beneath a Steel Sky can be installed from the repos and just work. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. Sure, he's attacking this from the perspective of an average person. An average person would not want to game on Linux. They already have a windows computer for that.

"install software on an os that didn't already come with the os? why would you want to do that?"

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:10

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

SYSV Fanfic posted:

Kubuntu's pretty decent if you've got hardware that's all been mainlined. I bought an ice lake laptop with my covid stay the gently caress inside money. Installed right away, absolutely everything worked, and the gaming experience is very superior to trying to use the windows Iris Xe drivers.

currently the only way to get hardware accelerated video working in firefox with iris xe is to turn off the content sandbox. although glx does work

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:11

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

linux is a shitshow. this is what makes knowing linux so valuable. anyone who believes that linux is "capable" or "usable" or "not a horrifying mess" isn't just wrong they're missing the point

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:17

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

it does seem like there's some sort of obsession with being able to game on linux, and quite frankly i don't get it

even if somehow magically you can avoid all the issues with proprietary nonsense, there's still a fundamental issue in that only a portion of any collection of games is gonna work, and there's a shitload of games that won't ever work on linux unless you use syscall emulation like wine or someone like the folks at GOG pick them up and do a lot of extra work on them - which doesn't seem to be the case at present, and even then they only have a small (but good) selection of older games, not every game ever made

also, there's something more worrying going on, which i'm not sure i have a word for, but essentially comes down to me worrying that appealing to the masses is going to result in everything being made for the masses, with no attempt to make things for powerusers
on the other hand, i get how elitist that sounds, and it's not something that keeps me awake - it's just a niggle

i game on linux (with a nvidia card at that!) its fine. works well enough.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:24

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

same but amd card

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

it does seem like there's some sort of obsession with being able to game on linux, and quite frankly i don't get it

because dual booting sucks and consumer priced gpus still can't be used in a vm unless you *only* use it in the vm which is dumb because then you need kvm or two screens lmao

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:36

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

it does seem like there's some sort of obsession with being able to game on linux, and quite frankly i don't get it

Well I, for one, am too lazy to reboot after work or during a break, and will happily accept some restrictions in my catalogue if I can keep listening to that podcast I started and play a game�

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:36

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

linux is a server os you freaks

if you gui on it good for you I guess but that�s definitely not it�s sweet spot

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:42

mycophobia: May 7, 2008

you're a server os

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:43

mystes: May 31, 2006

Truga posted:

same but amd card

because dual booting sucks and consumer priced gpus still can't be used in a vm unless you *only* use it in the vm which is dumb because then you need kvm or two screens lmao

Apparently Nvidia did finally add support for some new infrastructure for shared GPU virtualization that mere mortals are allowed to use. There's no first party software but someone made something that enables it and posted it on hn a month ago.

Edit: this (I haven't tried it): https://github.com/Arc-Compute/libvf.io

There's also a hack to use vgpu support on consumer nvidia gpus which I also haven't tried: https://github.com/DualCoder/vgpu_unlock

mystes fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Nov 10, 2021

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:43

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Gentle Autist posted:

linux is a server os you freaks

if you gui on it good for you I guess but that�s definitely not it�s sweet spot

what if linux is also a bad server os, but anything that might have been better died of costing more than nothing

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:55

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

Nomnom Cookie posted:

what if linux is also a bad server os, but anything that might have been better died of costing more than nothing

it's a poo poo server os, but it's the best we've got

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:55

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

Nomnom Cookie posted:

currently the only way to get hardware accelerated video working in firefox with iris xe is to turn off the content sandbox. although glx does work

Am I missing something? because it seems like it's working for me.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:55

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

POSIX in particular is very, very bad

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:56

Last Chance: Dec 31, 2004

is the non steam deck version of steamOS even supported by valve anymore?

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:56

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

Last Chance posted:

is the non steam deck version of steamOS even supported by valve anymore?

They probably have an agreement with the OEMs to support it for X years. They sold real hardware in gamestops.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:57

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

SYSV Fanfic posted:

Am I missing something? because it seems like it's working for me.

what does intel_gpu_top do when a video is playing. firefox is very happy to see your gpu and then do decoding on the cpu anyway

once i got hardware accel actually going, any attempt to play a video would crash FF with a sandbox violation. iris xe uses sysv ipc for some reason and the content process is (rightly) not permitted to gently caress with that

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:58

Poopernickel: Oct 28, 2005; electricity bad; Fun Shoe

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

it does seem like there's some sort of obsession with being able to game on linux, and quite frankly i don't get it

even if somehow magically you can avoid all the issues with proprietary nonsense, there's still a fundamental issue in that only a portion of any collection of games is gonna work, and there's a shitload of games that won't ever work on linux unless you use syscall emulation like wine or someone like the folks at GOG pick them up and do a lot of extra work on them - which doesn't seem to be the case at present, and even then they only have a small (but good) selection of older games, not every game ever made

also, there's something more worrying going on, which i'm not sure i have a word for, but essentially comes down to me worrying that appealing to the masses is going to result in everything being made for the masses, with no attempt to make things for powerusers
on the other hand, i get how elitist that sounds, and it's not something that keeps me awake - it's just a niggle

fwiw, Steam on Linux comes with an integrated WINE fork called Proton. I don't really play a lot of games but I hear that Proton works really, really well. Good enough that like 75% of all Windows games are playable on Linux in Proton without any dicking around.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:02

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

Nomnom Cookie posted:

what does intel_gpu_top do when a video is playing. firefox is very happy to see your gpu and then do decoding on the cpu anyway

once i got hardware accel actually going, any attempt to play a video would crash FF with a sandbox violation. iris xe uses sysv ipc for some reason and the content process is (rightly) not permitted to gently caress with that

If it's decoding on my cpu, it still has to be using some kind of hardware accelerator.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:04

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

i tried to get kinetic scrolling going on linux with libinput. you know, the replacement for synaptics. well libinput doesn't do kinetic scrolling in the driver, because the driver authors have decided this is bad and wrong. instead the toolkit should do it. for all i know the libinput devs are correct and doing it in the touchpad driver is a terrible idea. fine, i'll gently caress around in about:config and get kinetic scrolling going in firefox myself

turns out once the scrolling starts, you can't stop it by touching the touchpad. this is something that works flawlessly in osx of course. the problem in linux is that the toolkit doesn't get touch events, it gets synthesized mouse wheel movement. this works somewhat ok until you want to support something that a mouse can't do, like touching your fingers to the touchpad without moving them

in summary, kinetic scrolling is broken on linux because the lower layer refuses to implement it and is unwilling or unable to provide higher layers with the information needed to do it properly. this is everything you need to know about desktop linux

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:05

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Linux is a server OS and an embedded OS. The only reason you should daily a GUI is if you are developing for one of the above. :colbert:

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:08

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

SYSV Fanfic posted:

If it's decoding on my cpu, it still has to be using some kind of hardware accelerator.

it doesn't actually. that is about what you should expect to see for youtube. i guess something is using the gpu for compositing, but the video decoding is happening all on the cpu--that's what the usage on the content process is

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:12

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

DoomTrainPhD posted:

Linux is a server OS and an embedded OS. The only reason you should daily a GUI is if you are developing for one of the above.

the reason i try to do things like get kinetic scrolling on linux is so i can be unhappy and complain. if i just wanted something that worked well and didn't need fixing, i would have kept using my macbook

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:13

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

windows was the first and only os to have working hardware video decoding but then with chedge they decided to rewrite it to be platform agnostic and its nowhere near as good as native windows video. its gotten way way better than stock chome, but its still not native level.

see also: scrolling and touch input

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:15

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

maybe all software just sucks :shrug:

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:31

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

DoomTrainPhD posted:

Linux is a server OS and an embedded OS. The only reason you should daily a GUI is if you are developing for one of the above.

100% unironically though

and you can get away with most non-gaming entertainment these days since everything else is a video/audio stream or reading

music/creative production? guess it depends on what you're trying to do, i imagine modular synth guys would love linux but no one else, or blender

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:32

Tankakern: Jul 25, 2007

i'd rather have shaggar posting in this thread than nomnom cookie

a torrent of bad linux takes day in and out

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:33

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Share Bear posted:

music/creative production? guess it depends on what you're trying to do, i imagine modular synth guys would love linux but no one else, or blender

an audio person i know is using freebsd over linux

Tankakern posted:

a torrent of bad linux takes day in and out

the only solution is to SHA1 collide their posts

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:38

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

It's the same under windows.

Edge for reference:

I spent a lot of time reporting windows bugs to the intel driver team because I'm a deviant. There were a lot of app developers complaining that some api calls returned success but didn't appear to do anything (stubbies lol) for some values. I wouldn't blame the firefox team at all for shrugging their shoulders and hard coding a shunt.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:39

sb hermit: Dec 13, 2016

android is a capable mobile gaming OS

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:46

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Antigravitas posted:

From my experience it's the people who think they know Windows who are the worst with both. The CCleaner, TuneUp Utilities, Defragmenting The Registry people.

the #1 benefit of not using windows anymore is that when relatives call for free tech support you can honestly say "uhh, i don't know, i haven't used windows in years. just buy a mac"

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:47

sb hermit: Dec 13, 2016

To be honest, if someone wanted to try out a Linux for the first time, I would 100% without question suggest Ubuntu because of the wide userbase full of novice users (some of whom are forced into it via classes or related hobbies) that would have undoubtedly hit their head on every low hanging branch and fallen into every pit and posted their experience on stack exchange, so that google can index it.

I have found myself to be much lazier than I used to be, because I am more inclined to google a solution than work out the intricacies of a subsystem to determine the actual "correct" way that won't break when a package maintainer decides to uodate. I appreciate having configuration directories nowadays, rather than the old method of using just a big flat file.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:54

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

an audio person i know is using freebsd over linux

that's neat

i paid off my student loans working at three freebsd shops and i love it but most jobs that are hiring use linux

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:57

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 14:28

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

The first Linux anybody should try is MacOS followed by windows.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 21:58

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