(Thread IKs:
PIZZA.BAT)
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Sagebrush posted:you can make squarish/angular cars that still have good aerodynamics. the lowest drag shape is a wide flat plane, after all. when the prius was released, it had one of the lowest coefficients of drag ever seen in a production vehicle. that's a major reason why they shaped it like that, it was inspired by dolphins or something. still ugly, but they did design it for good aerodynamics
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 19:34 |
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# ? Apr 27, 2024 14:49 |
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lol at all these . this is good content Sagebrush posted:you can make squarish/angular cars that still have good aerodynamics. the lowest drag shape is a wide flat plane, after all. some cars days these days look like they’ve been designed by a pack of elite mall ninjas
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 19:37 |
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Broken Machine posted:when the prius was released, it had one of the lowest coefficients of drag ever seen in a production vehicle. that's a major reason why they shaped it like that, it was inspired by dolphins or something. still ugly, but they did design it for good aerodynamics i think the second-gen prius (i know you aren't thinking of the first generation, nobody does) is a hell of a lot more blocky and cyberpunk -- and elegant, when you get right down to it -- than what it eventually turned into. actually a fairly cool looking space pod: angry camry with factory dents:
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 19:38 |
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kammback designs are all about compromise, though. you need to have things like "a trunk" and "four seats" and "cabin volume" and "doors" so you settle for this rounded wedge with an implied elongated tail that decreases wake vortex generation. it's hardly efficient though. still a big lump pushing its way through the air. me, commuting to work like a boss:
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 19:42 |
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I love how Chevy was teasing the Volt as a rad-rear end batman looking electric car for like a decade then they released it and it was just a Detroit Prius.
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 19:47 |
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Ornamental Dingbat posted:I love how Chevy was teasing the Volt as a rad-rear end batman looking electric car for like a decade then they released it and it was just a Detroit Prius. the second one is like 5000 times better
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 19:52 |
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car chat central
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:07 |
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HIGH BELT LINE BICTH
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:10 |
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I was always under the impression boxy cars (and a lot of other features like retractable headlights) died out not because of aerodynamics but because of crashworthiness requirements
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:13 |
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Broken Machine posted:when the prius was released, it had one of the lowest coefficients of drag ever seen in a production vehicle. that's a major reason why they shaped it like that, it was inspired by dolphins or something. still ugly, but they did design it for good aerodynamics boxfish lol
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:15 |
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haveblue posted:I was always under the impression boxy cars (and a lot of other features like retractable headlights) died out not because of aerodynamics but because of crashworthiness requirements they died out because sci fi artists imagined we could do fancy metal bends and make everything look like an egg, so when new cars came out in 1990, they all looked like eggs.
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:20 |
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sagebrush regales tale that designers finally had computers that could make curves and so they tried desperately to use curves in every line so you end up with those egg cars sci fi artists have dreamed about for years
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:25 |
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this is my daily driver i only drive my 2008 manual honda fit on the weekends
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:27 |
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The fully blobbed out interior was because american car manufacturers just couldn't get the build quality high enough to not have misaligned panels, so instead they made everything a blob so you can't mess up alignment or so has been speculated
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:46 |
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rotor posted:the second one is like 5000 times better think of how cool the second one would be if the black trim under the windows was glass instead
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:47 |
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yeah I'm fuckin ur mom
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:53 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LED83F8tW10&t=1s
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 22:14 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hi2lXxNWEY
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 22:16 |
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Sagebrush posted:kammback designs are all about compromise, though. you need to have things like "a trunk" and "four seats" and "cabin volume" and "doors" so you settle for this rounded wedge with an implied elongated tail that decreases wake vortex generation. it's hardly efficient though. still a big lump pushing its way through the air. A smaller frontal area is better too obviously but there's only so much you can do while fitting two people comfortably
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 22:38 |
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powered by the honks of when you squeeze your red nose
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 22:39 |
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that electric Hyundai better be advertised to me by the reanimated corpse of Ricardo Montalbán
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 22:45 |
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in what way is the design of a porsche 911 copyrighted or patented? because they change them often but always stay the same, could someone else make a car that looked like a different iteration? not identical but aggressively inspired by
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 22:57 |
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you can buy every replacement panel aftermarket so you can "build a 911", but if you try to sell a modernized 911 copy named Emergency Number or something, thirteen bored lawyers will immediately show up at your doorstep and bury you in six feet of lawsuit summons paperwork.
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:06 |
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echinopsis posted:in what way is the design of a porsche 911 copyrighted or patented?
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:08 |
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you would be correct but they would use all of their legal muscle to bankrupt you or force a settlement
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:08 |
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all they have to do is sell one extra porsche in this fiscal year to fund a legal campaign that would leave you wearing a wine barrel with some straps and hollering in the street SPARE CHANGE, SIR?
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:10 |
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mobby_6kl posted:Isn't a water drop the best shape? Which is why the Aptera seems to work so well at least on paper Fun story about that. A water drop was believed for a long time to be the most aerodynamic shape because it seemed logically correct that a fluid would deform itself to the lowest-energy shape. Make cars shaped like teardrops! However, it turns out that what people think water drops look like, with a round base and elongated tail, is only what they look like when they're dripping from an edge, still attached, and about to fall. In the air, surface tension pulls them into a sphere and drag deforms them into a sort of flattened jellyfish shape: This isn't particularly sleek or aerodynamic; it just balances drag and surface tension. Of course a flat plate turned edge-on to the airstream produces the least drag, like a katana slicing through a flat of Kirkwood Signature spring water. However, that isn't practical for a car or any other object where you need to enclose some sort of volume. Bulging the top (and optionally the bottom) outwards will give you some useful volume, and extending the trailing edge way out at a shallow angle decreases the energy lost to vortex formation. The classic teardrop shape with a round nose and long tail is, coincidentally, a reasonable application of these rules. But there is no need for the nose to be blunt. High speed airfoils have very sharp leading edges, missiles have ogival nose cones, etc. And the longer and pointier you make the nose, the less energy is lost in turning the air around the shape, and therefore the lower the drag. You can see exactly when people realized this by looking at solar cars. For many years all the leading designs were shaped like teardrops, like the Sunraycer: Then someone went "wait a minute, this doesn't make sense" and now all the best solar cars are flat plates with sharp nose and tail and a tiny little bubble for the driver's head. This can't be directly applied to passenger cars because you need to have a cabin bigger than the driver's head, and thus will have greater frontal area. You don't want to extend the front of your car out the extra 8 feet that would be needed to get a sharp point while having a reasonable cabin and windshield height. Pedestrian safety regulations also no longer allow sharp front ends like on, say, a Lamborghini Countach. So we have to accept a blunter nose. Historically, there have been cars that extended the nose smoothly forwards for aerodynamics; those old dustbuster minivans had a drag coefficient of just 0.30, compared to the Prius' 0.26, which is pretty dang good. (average pickup truck is ~0.60, a cube is 0.8) On the other end, in the 1930s Wunibald Kamm discovered that you don't have to actually elongate the trailing edge of your shape all the way to a point to have good vortex handling. You can get like 90% of the effect by just starting the trend and then chopping the end of the shape off flat -- due to inertia and viscosity, the air will continue as if the tail of the car were still there, more or less. This is now called a Kamm-back and a lot of cars use it. It's very distinctive on the first-generation Honda Insight: (Cd of 0.25, for the record. gently caress you Toyota) The dustbuster minivan probably would have knocked a few more points off its Cd, bringing it within spitting distance of the Prius, if its roof tapered into a Kammback. Remember, though, that a Kammback is still not quite as efficient as bringing the tail to a point; if it were, airfoils would probably have that shape. But it's nearly as good aerodynamically while not making the car absurdly long. And that is why the most aerodynamic mass-produced cars today have a blunt wedge-shaped front, a tapering roofline, and a flat rear end. The Aptera is just a little better because, as you can see, it has a longer wedge in the front and it pulls the tail all the way out. As you note, that's about as good as you can get while still making space inside. But any resemblance to a teardrop is coincidental Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 13, 2021 |
# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:24 |
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Jonny 290 posted:you can buy every replacement panel aftermarket so you can "build a 911", but if you try to sell a modernized 911 copy named Emergency Number or something, thirteen bored lawyers will immediately show up at your doorstep and bury you in six feet of lawsuit summons paperwork. what I mean is that, does this rely on some kind of subjective notion that the rip-off looks like a 911? or to extend what I am wondering, is how far away would you need to shape a car from a 911 before some subjective measurement determines it’s different enough that it doesn’t risk a problem Ellie Trashcakes posted:Design patents and trade dress, mostly. Copyright does not apply to a "useful article," which in addition to free advertising forms a compelling motivation for prominent, trademarked elements for clothing and accessories. All that ugly horseshit on a vuitton bag? Trademarked. As long as your knock-off purse doesn't have that ugly poo poo on them (or embellishments considered trade dress) you're good to go I think I learned something from this Sagebrush posted:Fun story about that. gently caress I love youyre posts
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# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:41 |
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https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7023469407582129414
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:12 |
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I really enjoyed this post, thank you
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:13 |
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echinopsis posted:what I mean is that, does this rely on some kind of subjective notion that the rip-off looks like a 911? you can file a design registration on a specific shape, ornament, arrangement of elements, etc. and prevent other people from selling that same design directly. it fits somewhere between a copyright and a patent; a porsche 911 isn't copyrightable as a creative work, nor can something like "two round headlights and a long tail" be patented, but the total combination of elements can be distinctive enough to be registered as a unique design. you might get a design registration on your particular tubular steel and leather chair, or your brightly colored plastic vacuum cleaner, or whatever. (extra credit: who am i referring to with these two examples?) like ellie says, this applies only to purely aesthetic elements, not functional components, so you can't say oh i put two buckles on the side of my purse, that's my design, you can't make a purse with two buckles any more. it's only the specific aesthetic way that the parts are used to make the look -- the exact positioning of those two buckles relative to other elements, in a way that is positively aesthetic and not merely functional -- that can be registered. and like patents, you can't register something that is substantially similar to prior work or incredibly obvious. like many things in intellectual property law, it sometimes comes down to "what would the average person off the street think?" of course, even if you are sure you're legally justified in selling your knockoffs, none of this will stop porsche from simply sending you a c&d and threatening to bankrupt you in court. and then there's the whole situation where you might be violating trade dress, like how Fluke has a trademark on yellow multimeters, or if you say that your transmission is "just like a porsche Tiptronic" that's another kind of trademark infringement, or perhaps you stupidly used their corporate font which is copyrighted, or who knows what secret patents they own that you've inadvertently infringed while building your copies... Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Nov 14, 2021 |
# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:17 |
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Sagebrush posted:you can file a design registration on a specific shape, ornament, arrangement of elements, etc. and prevent other people from selling that same design directly. it fits somewhere between a copyright and a patent; a porsche 911 isn't copyrightable as a creative work, nor can something like "two round headlights and a long tail" be patented, but the total combination of elements can be distinctive enough to be registered as a unique design. you might get a design registration on your particular tubular steel and leather chair, or your brightly colored plastic vacuum cleaner, or whatever. (extra credit: who am i referring to with these two examples?) this was informative thanks
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:38 |
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https://twitter.com/weadhitter/status/1457967813998485504
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:40 |
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going to the museum to say hello to my old friend
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:32 |
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The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance. -Aristotle
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:40 |
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Sagebrush posted:"what would the average person off the street think?" An excellent example of trade dress would be the shape of a coca cola bottle. The bottle itself is a useful article but the shape is eminently distinctive and tied to coca cola.
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:50 |
it's a tasteful nude
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:02 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVzRnED0b8g
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:53 |
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https://twitter.com/JAVdottxt/status/1458363373452726272
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 03:48 |
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# ? Apr 27, 2024 14:49 |
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https://twitter.com/JAVdottxt/status/1457985889439817729
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# ? Nov 14, 2021 03:49 |